Serious discussion time: Who out of all the main series protagonists is the most lethal? If Reimu, Marisa, Sakuya, Youmu, and Sanae were to stop playing danmaku and just try to kill eachother, who would be consistently doing better or worse?
This isnt just a "who is best" argument either, as the above sentence should imply, even if an objective winner is found that just means its time to argue second and third place.
Reimu wins because she can just become intangible, full stop. Second place is more interesting. Will Sakuya kill everyone else in stopped time? Or will Sanae pull off a miracle and everyone else suddenly starts choking from a frog in their throat?
>>16375 Sanae's other advantage over the rest is that she has gods she can summon pretty much instantly (See Soku). In a no holds barred fight, having 2 immortal gods fight on your behalf really evens the odds. Sure, Sanae herself may not be able to take a spark. But I'm sure Kanako or Suwako can take a hit, while letting the other two attack Marisa.
I think not stopping time is more or less a technicality. Even if it's technically just insanely fast movement/reactions/knife-placement/etc, in what way is it not functionally equivalent to stopping time?
The only thing in Gensokyo that I could see outright defeating that ability is Yukari. There's a couple of other contenders (Flandre's ability to destroy absolutely anything, for example), but I think being untargetable trumps almost everything else.
I'm inclined to think that second place largely depends on whether Sakuya can actually kill Youmu. Sakuya's got a weird matchup spread in that she pretty much destroys anyone who's vulnerable to knives, but then lacks a backup plan for the remainder.
In all seriousness, I think Reisen is one of the only ones that can beat Reimu. Reimu's invulnerability is a subconscious one, so to get around that you have to make her consciously become tangible. Reisen can bend light to make her target see illusions. If Reisen can, for example, make Reimu think she has won, Reimu could drop her guard which leaves her vulnerable to attack. And as a normal human, she would be vulnerable to knives, swords, sparks, gods and bullets.
>>16385 Nah. It's deeper than subconscious. There's that one chapter in one of the Sangessei manga that where they try to get Reimu lost in the forest. She almost stumbles into a pond(?) and a bunch of fish start jumping up to bridge her way across without her noticing. It's a ridiculous level of luck/being blessed on top of her other bullshit.
>>16387 I think it was mentioned in PMiSS before that.
Come to think of it, doesn't Reimu's invincibility drop if she's acting out of impure motives? All Reisen needs to do is throw up an illusion of someone actually using the donation box, and line up for a headshot.
Reimu really is a good character. So much of her is whimsically absurd on all levels. Is a veritable god in power even amongst Gensokyan residents; makes a dueling system to level the playing field. Beats up youkai habitually; befriends youkai immediately after they meet. Dislikes politics; is the single most important figure besides Yukari.
On main topic, I'd like to throw in bets on Marisa in second. She is the analog Batman in scenarios like this. Always hardworking and studious in the background, she likely has ideal countermeasures for just about everything Youmu or Sakuya can do. Sanae's miracles and summoned god duo would give her trouble as she'd have to pull off many countermeasures Just to focus down Sanae only. Reisen doesn't stack up in these fights since everyone knows her schtick pretty well. She doesn't even scratch first spot because she herself said that there is literally nothing to do against Reimu in hax sign.
If Reisen counts in this conversation, then ya'll know that Aya and Cirno count too, right?
>>16395 >good character In all honesty, she's a whatever character to me. Any time a creator has to rub in your face how "good" a character is despite their flaws (or god forbid because of them), I immediately stop liking them.
>Marisa Even if she can maybe Batman her way through some things, she's still human. All it takes is a split second of human weakness and she's fucked. She can't possibly physically react to Youmu or Sakuya in terms of speed, brains or no.
Cirno unironically (and ironically, due to her being the weaker boss in the same game) has the best matchup against Sakuya due to her perfect freeze, which creates an area of (almost?) 0k temperature, which also stops any low energy and any physical projectile in their track immediately.
Assuming Sakuya accelerates her time (rather than stopping everyone else's) it would mean her entering the area of effect of perfect freeze at any point would freeze her solid to the core in what amounts to an instant, which qualifies as an incapacitation, granting Cirno victory.
>>16399 Except Cirno is just the kind of dumbass who would forget that she can even do that. Plus she really has no skin in the game when fairies don't permadeath. She might win by "default" because of it, but that means basically nothing when she probably wouldn't remember what was happening after getting murked yet again. But hollow victories do feel pretty Touhou so I dunno.
>>16400 > Intelligence Cirno is dumb when it comes to booksmarts but she has shown competency in battle. While Marisa started out playing around with her she has admitted at the end of their battle in Great Fairy Wars that she had to put in real effort towards the end. Mind you what I am saying here is from memory and may differ from what I said in actuality. Whether she's gonna be strategic enough to pull what I said through is up for debate - maybe there are manga panels showing her being creative with her ice powers, which could set a reasonable precedent for it.
>Win condition There's reason to assume most folks have ways to incapacitate Cirno; sealing, capturing her tying her up. Reimu wins here by default again. Reisen's insanity works as well.