I think Keine has the best hat. It's still darn silly though.

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File 163365430693.jpg - (188.55KB, 792x1080, __hakurei_reimu_kirisame_marisa_izayoi_sakuya_konp.jpg) [iqdb]
16373
Serious discussion time:
Who out of all the main series protagonists is the most lethal? If Reimu, Marisa, Sakuya, Youmu, and Sanae were to stop playing danmaku and just try to kill eachother, who would be consistently doing better or worse?

This isnt just a "who is best" argument either, as the above sentence should imply, even if an objective winner is found that just means its time to argue second and third place.
Reimu wins because she can just become intangible, full stop.
Second place is more interesting. Will Sakuya kill everyone else in stopped time? Or will Sanae pull off a miracle and everyone else suddenly starts choking from a frog in their throat?
Sakuya versus Youmu could be interesting since both of them are super fast.

Hell it was even said that Sakuya doesn't really stop time she just becomes so fast it might as well be timestop.

So Youmu with her insane sword skills and half ghost nature could survive a barrage of knives and behead her opponent in an instant.


Third Place I'd say Marisa she can just Machine Gun Master Spark Sanae and there's not much a miracle can do against a barrage of instant death laser.

Actually Marisa could come to first place since she's one of the few people that has won against each of those before.
>>16375
Sanae's other advantage over the rest is that she has gods she can summon pretty much instantly (See Soku). In a no holds barred fight, having 2 immortal gods fight on your behalf really evens the odds. Sure, Sanae herself may not be able to take a spark. But I'm sure Kanako or Suwako can take a hit, while letting the other two attack Marisa.
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16377
>forgetting Reisen
>>16377
Dumb bunny only useful for sex appeal
Is that a meme or something?

I don't really know her but if she's useluss then why has she been a player controlled character several times?
>powerleves in touhou
lol

Everyone's powers are so OP it would honestly all come down to who manages to strike first. And you can't move any faster than in stopped time.
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16381
>>16379
It's easier to deal with memes than provide actual arguments, basically.
File 163371153335.jpg - (0.97MB, 2000x2176, heard you were talkin' shit like i wouldn.jpg) [iqdb]
16382
Medicate those who insult the bun.
>>16377
Raisins has lolnoroute

>>16380
Sakuya doesn't actually stop time, though?
I think not stopping time is more or less a technicality. Even if it's technically just insanely fast movement/reactions/knife-placement/etc, in what way is it not functionally equivalent to stopping time?

Regardless, I think >>16374 is correct in that Reimu wins. Given that she can canonically float away from reality itself and become invincible for as long as she wants, no limits, no downsides... (https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Imperishable_Night/Spell_Cards/Last_Word#Spell_Card_215) well, I'm at a loss as to what can actually top that. In Marisa's spell card grimoire, she flat out says that without the time limit, there'd be no way to win against it.

The only thing in Gensokyo that I could see outright defeating that ability is Yukari. There's a couple of other contenders (Flandre's ability to destroy absolutely anything, for example), but I think being untargetable trumps almost everything else.

I'm inclined to think that second place largely depends on whether Sakuya can actually kill Youmu. Sakuya's got a weird matchup spread in that she pretty much destroys anyone who's vulnerable to knives, but then lacks a backup plan for the remainder.
In all seriousness, I think Reisen is one of the only ones that can beat Reimu. Reimu's invulnerability is a subconscious one, so to get around that you have to make her consciously become tangible. Reisen can bend light to make her target see illusions. If Reisen can, for example, make Reimu think she has won, Reimu could drop her guard which leaves her vulnerable to attack. And as a normal human, she would be vulnerable to knives, swords, sparks, gods and bullets.
...I can't help but notice people saying sakuya doesn't actually stop time, but that doesn't sound true? Is there a WoG or evidence for this anywhere?
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16387
>>16386
She said so herself in WaHH chapter 35. Of course, you could just assume (and some people do) that she's lying.
>>16385
Nah. It's deeper than subconscious. There's that one chapter in one of the Sangessei manga that where they try to get Reimu lost in the forest. She almost stumbles into a pond(?) and a bunch of fish start jumping up to bridge her way across without her noticing. It's a ridiculous level of luck/being blessed on top of her other bullshit.

>>16387
I think it was mentioned in PMiSS before that.
>>16387
The fanarts got it all wrong.
Her stand isn't 「The World」but「Made in Heaven」.
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16390
>>16388
This is Mary-sue levels of plot armor. Why do we like Reimu again?
Come to think of it, doesn't Reimu's invincibility drop if she's acting out of impure motives? All Reisen needs to do is throw up an illusion of someone actually using the donation box, and line up for a headshot.
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16392
>>16390
Because despite being blatantly OP, she's a flawed individual who frankly isn't even pleasant to be around. As such she's always suffering through the consequences of her own actions.

Exhibit A) her being perpetually broke from being lazy.
>>16390
because cute ribbon
>>16390
>>16392
Exhibit B) Almost dying from food poisoning because she ate old rice balls.
File 163385740914.jpg - (89.54KB, 850x850, __kirisame_marisa_and_bakebake_touhou_drawn_by_gia.jpg) [iqdb]
16395
Reimu really is a good character. So much of her is whimsically absurd on all levels. Is a veritable god in power even amongst Gensokyan residents; makes a dueling system to level the playing field. Beats up youkai habitually; befriends youkai immediately after they meet. Dislikes politics; is the single most important figure besides Yukari.

On main topic, I'd like to throw in bets on Marisa in second. She is the analog Batman in scenarios like this. Always hardworking and studious in the background, she likely has ideal countermeasures for just about everything Youmu or Sakuya can do. Sanae's miracles and summoned god duo would give her trouble as she'd have to pull off many countermeasures Just to focus down Sanae only. Reisen doesn't stack up in these fights since everyone knows her schtick pretty well.
She doesn't even scratch first spot because she herself said that there is literally nothing to do against Reimu in hax sign.
>>16395
The real way to defeat Reimu is to continue the bloodline of the other heroines while she continues to age from christmas cake into old maid.
If Reisen counts in this conversation, then ya'll know that Aya and Cirno count too, right?

>>16395
>good character
In all honesty, she's a whatever character to me. Any time a creator has to rub in your face how "good" a character is despite their flaws (or god forbid because of them), I immediately stop liking them.

>Marisa
Even if she can maybe Batman her way through some things, she's still human. All it takes is a split second of human weakness and she's fucked. She can't possibly physically react to Youmu or Sakuya in terms of speed, brains or no.

>>16396
This man might be onto something.
File 163388119029.jpg - (46.20KB, 500x500, 1353364210130.jpg) [iqdb]
16398
Cirno wins then because she can't be killed. She is the strongest.
Cirno unironically (and ironically, due to her being the weaker boss in the same game) has the best matchup against Sakuya due to her perfect freeze, which creates an area of (almost?) 0k temperature, which also stops any low energy and any physical projectile in their track immediately.

Assuming Sakuya accelerates her time (rather than stopping everyone else's) it would mean her entering the area of effect of perfect freeze at any point would freeze her solid to the core in what amounts to an instant, which qualifies as an incapacitation, granting Cirno victory.
>>16399
Except Cirno is just the kind of dumbass who would forget that she can even do that. Plus she really has no skin in the game when fairies don't permadeath. She might win by "default" because of it, but that means basically nothing when she probably wouldn't remember what was happening after getting murked yet again. But hollow victories do feel pretty Touhou so I dunno.
>>16400
> Intelligence
Cirno is dumb when it comes to booksmarts but she has shown competency in battle. While Marisa started out playing around with her she has admitted at the end of their battle in Great Fairy Wars that she had to put in real effort towards the end. Mind you what I am saying here is from memory and may differ from what I said in actuality.
Whether she's gonna be strategic enough to pull what I said through is up for debate - maybe there are manga panels showing her being creative with her ice powers, which could set a reasonable precedent for it.

>Win condition
There's reason to assume most folks have ways to incapacitate Cirno; sealing, capturing her tying her up. Reimu wins here by default again. Reisen's insanity works as well.
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