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17039 No. 17039
For all those who feel the need to discuss it.

Keep the faggotry, rage and ******* in here. And let's keep it out of the other threads please.
>> No. 17041
This thread is dumb. Does this really need reviving?

I mean, come on, it's /blue/. Threadshitting should be expected here. And there's the rage thread for this sort of thing anyway.
>> No. 17042
>>17041
Just because the thread is locked does not mean the problem is gone. It is best to just talk it out here.
>> No. 17045
What's Theater of Youth?
>> No. 17046
>>17045
>>/others/48958.html
Current thread is here. It's a high school AU.
And probably one of the best when it comes to character interaction.
And now, shit storm happened, readers are angry, writefag is angry, and the thread is locked.

Also, there is the issue of the writer also being a mod.
Which means there is a serious conflict of interest.
While his heart at least attempts to be in the right place, it's seriously arrogant to be the judge and censor within your own thread.
Look, I know you want to keep your thread clean of vitriol and senseless arguing, but can you ask one of the other mods to take care of mod actions when you need them, like any other author on this site would? Limit yourself while acting as the writer for GHE or ToY to be only the writer and nothing else?

Anyways.
I remember the last time the story died, the author brought up that the story is a dual relationship between author and readers. Each have to meet half way. Frankly, both sides are angry, readers especially so. Both sides are making points and I'll compile them later when I'm awake, but it's currently a massive shitstorm.

My own thoughts at the moment.
I think the writefag is more at fault, mostly because he has completely refuses to meet Anon half way on the current choice, which is unanimous, however OCC.
Writefag makes a good point that Arc is a womanizing arse and is built up around old VN's, where the MC is supposed to be a total dick who flirts with everyone so the player can get a chance to meet with and understand each girl before picking a route. Frankly, I think we can all reach a level of some resolution. I hope.

As for how I voted, I'll fully admit I voted to keep lying to Sanae and not hit on Suwako.
OP made it clear that it would be light hearted thing, but I think it would nothing more than a odd laugh and an awkward scene.
If the setting was still in Gensokyo, I'd be more okay with hitting on what appears to be a 12 year old girl.
But ToY is set in a high school without magic and gods. Suwako appears to be, for all intents and purposes, either Sanae's sister or mother.
Not even Animating's NecroMC lacks enough tact to hit on a girl's sister/mother, *right* in front of her, *in* her home. It takes way to much hormones to be that idiotic. And it's known that Arc is pretty good at twisting words and getting on peoples good books. I personally thought he would lie and face the issue later on.

The real underlying choice, or so I guess, is whether Arc breaks the facade to Sanae and admits he doesn't have feelings for her by hitting on Suwako, or he keeps up the charade.

Side rambling at 1AM
Why this story is important.
Deme brought up in the "This Silence" thread about how to people from /tg/, the idea of AWiG is so appealing. Neckbeardy concepts and ideas that they are familiar with, mixed in with the magical girl Touhous they are alien to. So you have people avoiding other stories because they are fandom specific or only make sense once you begin to understand the dynamics of the characters within Touhou.

Lets be honest, a story like Animating Gensokyo, Gensokyo's Public Enemy, and Tainted Bonds are much easier to slip into and understand the subtler interactions of the world than say, Stardust Halley in Forest that *requires* you to know Reimu and Marisa well, and know of Marisa's playboy status within the fandom. Or Tenshi is in this Thread by our dear master ruseman, Yaffykins. It takes a greater understanding of Touhou to enjoy it than it would for AWiG.

ToY strips out a large number of the magical girl elements of Touhou and plays solely with their characters. It's why I read the first five threads straight. The individual characters stayed true to their accepted canon and had enough originality to be interesting (Actually, a lot of originality).
It also takes the idea of what makes a person powerful and twists it. Arc is a arse, in both Glass Half Empty, it's sister thread, and in Theater of Youth. Yet in GHE, surrounded by magicians and powerful magicians, Arc is still relatively powerless but the opposite is true in ToY where he is on more equal footing and his words have more effect.
Because of the more equal footing, it's easier to identify with, juxtapose onto, and make choices as Arc. We can all remember times when we said retarded things in highschool, or fucked shit up chasing after girls. We can identify with him. And his more equal power, it's easier to feel as if one has actual power to change things for better or worse, unlike GHE where Anon is paranoid about being used by Mima for some end.
I also think because of this, people are voting in the thread as for what they would do given the situation. I know I have.

All of this combined makes for a story that's great for new visitors for the site.
It's a more comfortable setting and the characters are interesting enough to be worthwhile.
It introduces the large cast of the Touhou verse and lets new readers become more comfortable with the fandom.
There's probably a bunch of shit I'm still missing.

More so, using that, it's easy to see why so many Anon's are outraged. The only stories that would cause a bigger shit storm would be AWiG, Tainted Bonds, and Animating Gensokyo. People genuinely liked the story and the characters. They might have not always voted, but there are readers and not all of them might be that into Touhou, but ToY could easily be one of the bridges that brings them into the community and gets them to actively vote and maybe even write. It sealed me as a regular reader way back. It's also one of the first stories I voted in.
>> No. 17051
>>17046
actually Arc isn't that bad in GHE/ADEFT though he is prone to complaining at times.

>Lets be honest, a story like Animating Gensokyo, Gensokyo's Public Enemy, and Tainted Bonds are much easier to slip into and understand the subtler interactions of the world than say, Stardust Halley in Forest that *requires* you to know Reimu and Marisa well, and know of Marisa's playboy status within the fandom. Or Tenshi is in this Thread by our dear master ruseman, Yaffykins. It takes a greater understanding of Touhou to enjoy it than it would for AWiG.

True but we should encourage greater understanding than excusing it and possibly allow people to remain ignorant. Those stories may draw in more readers but not all of them could be called Touhou fans.

And I know when I joined a fandom I didn't continue ignorant but rather i read up on things until I became knowledgeable.

I think Stardust Halley would be better if the writer updated it faster than he is.

I consider the ToY topic to be a dead horse as it's clear what had happened more or less and we're stuck waiting for the next step.
>> No. 17056
>>17046
So, an asshole MC in a romancing sorta-harem Touhou story.

Truly, my most hated combination.

Glad I didn't really know about it until now.
>> No. 17057
>>17056
The MC is not really an asshole. Don't let the guy lead you astray and just read the first thread to form your own opinion.
>> No. 17059
>>17057
He does start as an asshole.
>> No. 17060
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17060
1) Writer chooses a certain type of story to write.
2) Certain type of story appeals to a certain type of reader.
3) Certain type of reader prone to certain behavioural patterns.
4) Certain behavioural patterns do not agree with a certain writer.
5) Certain writer resorts to certain measures.

Maybe we were already wrong at a certain step 1.
>> No. 17068
>>17046
>Lets be honest, a story like... takes a greater understanding of Touhou to enjoy it than it would for AWiG.

I'm sorry, what? When, in any book, do you need to have information of characters in the series at large to understand the story? Sure, the larger plot won't be clear, but enjoying the book shouldn't be impossible. It is not required at all to know about canon/fanon Touhou characterization (especially with how little there is) to enjoy a story. In some cases it is better to not know as most stories distort canon to the point where what you know of the characters is wrong, and we know that No Such Thing as Fairytales would have gone better if people stop falling back to canon characterization to make decisions. If it is required to know about Touhou characterization, canon or otherwise, to enjoy a CYOA on this site the writer should be lynched, since at no point should you let the games or fanon automatically fill in the blanks in your story or preemptively describe characters/places.
>> No. 17070
I'd honestly rather hear complaints from the people who actually tried to help revive ToY in the first place. You know, instead of the people who were willing to stand by and watch it burn. A lot of this just seems hypocrital to me.
>> No. 17072
>>17046
Wow. I just read and thread and wow, the hell was that? It was a drama for no good reason.

This, this is just dumb.
>> No. 17078
>>17072
Dumb, but tends to be the most enjoyable part of Teruyo threads.
>> No. 17080
>>17078
Drama is fun

Especially when it's over the weirdest or stupidest reasons.
First it's the flat "what?" And then it's becomes so absurd that its just funny.
>> No. 17081
>>17078
Drama is fun

Especially when it's over the weirdest or stupidest reasons.
First it's the flat "what?" And then it's becomes so absurd that its just funny.
>> No. 17082
>>17059
He has that streak, mainly to show that while he could be nice, he could also be an asshole, much like many Old VN protagonists. Part of the mess is anon somehow mistaking Arc for a more modern MC (who tends to be nicer/more heroic)/not reading past threads and making a choice in haste and then trying to do things as to turn things around.

This in turn lead to a clash of intents between anon and author with neither yielding.

It's very easy to just blame the author alone but if anon didn't choose this particular choice in the first place, we'd have avoided the problem.

>>17060
Well with this it's like this
1. Author makes story off of old VNs
2. It attracts anon who have something of an understanding of them
3. Author puts story on hiatus for some reason
4. Fans of the story try to revive it
5. Author resumes without not note in a new thread
6. It appears to attract anon ignorant of previous threads
7. They end up making bad choice only realizing it later
8. They try to "Fix" things coming into conflict with the author's intent
9. Story is on hiatus AGAIN.
>> No. 17085
>>17082

Are you sure that a certain step one isn't referring to the high school gimmick that somehow appeals to readers here despite claims of elitism and having higher standards than ff.net?
>> No. 17086
>>17085
>THP
>having standards
Pick one.
>> No. 17087
>>17085
that may have been a factor in the fiasco but the exact cause isn't known. But the readership before the hiatus had an understanding that it wasn't just another high school story.
>> No. 17088
>>17082
Sup, Wiseman.
>> No. 17091
>>17088
not enough 'as'
>> No. 17092
>>17082
>but if anon didn't choose this particular choice in the first place

Pretty goddamn sure that the author offered it as a choice. If we're going to blame anon for picking OFFERED CHOICES, there might be a problem here.
>> No. 17099
>>17092
The issue isn't the choice itself but what anon had in mind while choosing it. For some reason they thought it was truthfully confessing. I said not choosing it would have prevented it as it would have been truer to anon's intent while avoiding that whole awkward situation.

You may not have been among the guilty party, but it's rather unsightly to try to deny anon's part in the mess. The Author had a part in it in not clearing things up while he could and not considering their intent in the slightest.
>> No. 17140
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17140
>>17099
I did not thought that. Assumptions are easy to make but they are seldom right.
As a rule of thumb, if you're talking about 'anon' using the third person and pointing out a mistake, you're wrong.
>>17092
The issue is that the author didn't like that the vote was unanimous. In his mind, that meant that he failed at the presentation of the choices or maybe at the character's characterization. Then it all turned out to be anon's fault for some reason.
>> No. 17161
>>17140
I don't think he really considered what was going on in the voters' mind during those scenes and why they wouldn't choose certain choices. He basically assumed that they choose the first choice knowing what they were getting into and going along with it.
>> No. 17189
>>17099
The simplest thing to remember is that if there is a choice you're offering, and you don't want anon to pick it, REGARDLESS OF THE THOUGHT PROCESSES INVOLVED:

DON'T FUCKING MAKE IT A CHOICE.

Seriously how hard is that to understand?
>> No. 17191
>>17189
Thank you.

Really, this whole thing is retarded.
>> No. 17193
>>17189
That, and I'd also say ignore retarded write-ins.

It's your story. You write it however it befits your own vision.
>> No. 17194
>>17193
I'm the kind of guy who will introduce any kind of write-ins if they get voted. But if they're "retarded", I'll take the liberty to twist them in a way to screw the readers, or do precisely what they ask for. Then I'll laugh in their faces and press the reset button.
>> No. 17195
Hello, author here. I've had a lot of time to think about the story in the last week or so. I'm nearly ready to resume, time permitting. The old thread will continue to be locked and a new one made with the necessary changes in posts for continuity purposes as well as an integrated recap of some important events.

There are still a few things that need to be (re)stated.

My approach to writing stories is one that places a lot of emphasis on reader input and the relationship between individual voters. Reader intent is taken from posts and integrated basically even when it's not a winning option or even the majority sentiment (but especially when it is the latter case). There's a lot to be said about that and the ideal amount of comments and discussion, etc and it's the reason why I don't accept votes without any other accompanying thought. Now another effect of that view is that the choices and stopping points in the story are purposefully selected based on the audience and past experiences. That is to say, the choices presented are meant to each have their own appeal. Otherwise they wouldn't be there. The more you talk and the more we go along in the story, the more they should tend to be specifically-targeted. That's because the audience should be intimately familiar with the protagonist, the type of story and the intended outcomes after a while. My /forest/ story is a good example of how this works outs out well.

So hopefully you can begin to see why I stopped.

It's normal for occasionally one option to be weighted more than the other. It should not be the case for several choices in a row, however. It means there's a lack of synchronization between story and audience. This could be for several reasons. Because I, as the author, didn't make the choices too attractive given the context in the story (wording, tone, etc). Or because readers don't have a feel for how things should be. Either way it means that I should make changes. My experience over the years has been that it's not healthy to carry on if this happens because of the damage it does down the road. So yeah, it's preferable to stop and take a breath and see what can be fixed and how before things get too out of hand.

The actual particular choice, as some are insisting, has never been the problem. If I didn't want to write it, I wouldn't put it there to begin with. I do think that some people have forgotten the spirit of the story but that's inevitable given the long pause. I'll do my best to reinstill that feeling but you could also reread a previous thread and/or see one of the games in >>/blue/16878 (True love is the shortest and easiest to pick up but Three Sister's Story can give you a lot of insight).

That's my thought process and how I honestly see things. Hopefully this post and the update will put the whole issue to rest. If not feel free to talk to me on IRC. Let's not shit up story threads anymore.
>> No. 17196
>>17195
I look forward to the inevitable dramastorm of the next story.
>> No. 17198
>It's normal for occasionally one option to be weighted more than the other. It should not be the case for several choices in a row, however. It means there's a lack of synchronization between story and audience.

I still don't understand the logic behind this conclusion.

Are you expecting a close vote for every single choice? For every choice to be some epic debate back and forth between informed parties? Because that's insane.

>This could be for several reasons.

A lot of people actively seek out consensus, and dislike fractured opinions. A lot of the time when I see a large growing vote forming that I wouldn't have chosen first, I won't actively vote against it unless I feel really passionate about the opposite. Sometimes I'll even join the bandwagon if I like the vote enough, but I'll try to put some witty write-in spin on it.

And as a writer, I'll say that a clear majority is the norm, not the exception, for my story. Sometimes they surprise me with a write-in I hadn't thought of, and when a misinformed write-in happens, I take a moment to discuss it. Sometimes they rally around one vote like the clenched of an angry god, and other times there is a nailbiting series of ties.

>Because I, as the author, didn't make the choices too attractive given the context in the story (wording, tone, etc). Or because readers don't have a feel for how things should be. Either way it means that I should make changes.

Maybe you should stop worrying about metashenanananigans, and just write a good story, eh? We'll all like it better that way.
>> No. 17199
>>17198
>Maybe you should stop worrying about metashenanananigans, and just write a good story, eh? We'll all like it better that way.

Nah, it wouldn't be Teruyo that way.
>> No. 17201
I'm just hoping a retcon gets Arc (and us) out of that sticky spot as long time readers would rather be doing other things than messing with Sanae, such as helping Orin and Okuu, Tenshi, etc.
>> No. 17202
>>17198
>Are you expecting a close vote for every single choice?
Not at all. The middle ground between unanimity and bitter contention is just fine.

I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with consensus just that things shouldn't always be so clear-cut. And even if it is that obvious then there's plenty of room for variance and input via comments about the choice, characters, the scene or anything else in the story by the voter. That is also useful. So it's not wholly about just the vote ever really. This isn't really what I was talking about in my post though, just more of a general aside. There's often a lot of moments of brilliance displayed by readers and that's independent of how they actually voted.

>Maybe you should stop worrying about metashenanananigans, and just write a good story, eh?

I don't know how long you've been at this or how many stories you've written. But look at the site. There's dead and moribund stories everywhere. I want to finish everything I do and, for the most part, am on track to eventually doing so. The only way I can guarantee that it'll be fine with my stories is if the voters and I are on the same page. This is why it's important to make things proceed as smoothly as they can. No drama with what happens in the story/how it turns out means greater satisfaction for both reader and writer. That's why I'm upfront about issues like these. I'm not coming from a bad place, quite the contrary, I want to have a clear and unambiguous understanding with the people who participate and put in time.
>> No. 17207
>>17201
>helping Orin and Okuu, Tenshi
I can get behind that Idea. We talked in the last thread about helping Tenshi and I am glad that many people said they would like to do this. Why not stick with this?
>> No. 17208
>>17202
>No drama with what happens in the story/how it turns out means greater satisfaction for both reader and writer.

Then why do you consistently stir up drama and shitstorms? It is pretty much 100% started by you, every time. Multiple times. Jesus. There's a pattern here, and all of us see it.
>> No. 17209
>>17207
Agreed. Add Reisen to this list and I'm in.
>> No. 17210
>>17209
I don't recall Reisen having a particular arc, but i do remember she was nice company.
>> No. 17211
>>17210
Reisen is the girl who likes to play games in the arcade. Arc met her right in the beginning.
>> No. 17212
>>17211
I remember that much. She would be a nice choice, good way to avoid ending up on a rescue romance with one of the other girls.
>> No. 17213
>>17209
Vote here then >>/others/49278

Though the deck is horribly stacked against her: Up against two story important characters and the word fanservice is A) sort of insulting towards Reisen and B) gives Yuyuko even more of an advantage.

If he was trying to promote Reisen, he was certainly going about it the wrong way.
>> No. 17219
>>17213
This may shock you but, the truth about the story is that it's all fanservice. No reason to get worked up over that. If/when people start dismissing a character out of hand with inane justification, that's when you might want to get worked up.
>> No. 17226
>>17219
The point was trying to show that there are fans willing to go for her even if the vote mattered little. A Symbolic victory sort of thing. Now actually making it happen for real will be more difficult as she has some of THP's most popular characters to content with.


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