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Gensokyo High II(296)

1 .

Autosage reached. Starting new thread.

[x] Hand her the food , don't take initiative yourself. If she wants to come out, she will. If she doesn't, she won't. At least she knows you're here and waiting for her, now; Won.
Thoughts?

2 .

By the way, is it possible to link to another thread in /words/?

3 .

Hmm testing...

[url=http://www.touhou-project.com/th/res/108263.html]test 1[/url]

<A HREF="http://www.touhou-project.com/th/res/108263.html"="new_window>Test 2</A>

http://www.touhou-project.com/th/res/108263.html test 3

Yeah forgive me if I seem like a new fag but I just don't know how /words/ exactly work where as the other boards just seem so much simpler.

4 .

and I fail...

figures.

5 .

Why do you need another Thread, it's not like it will disappear.

6 .

>>/th/108263
>th/108263/ >th/108263
I think it was something like this, but I don't know exactly

7 .

>>1

My thoughts? The worst of all the possible options won, and I want to know why the fuck did people actually vote for it. It's no different than letting Sakuya taking the food to her. Fuck, why did we even bother going to the basement then? Goddamn fuckers, I'm not convinced it was a clean victory.

A precious opportunity lost.

8 .

>>7
Lost the battle but not the war..?

I know how ya feel, nonetheless as far as I've noticed, the other voters that were against the 'Kissing the Hand' bit felt the comments that came afterward were terrible if not mechanical.

read something and actually saying something can create two very different reactions. While reading the comments it may have looked mechanical, invisioning Jin saying his piece, it imo actually sounds and looks naturally heartfelt.

Plus you got the paranoia, those who are worn thin by the previous shitstorms. Seriously Taisa's got some incredible amount of patience to go through all that bullshit and still find some joy in writing... Or so I assume he does.

9 .

>>7
AT least it is way better than the kiss hand option. The choice is stupid in itself, wait and do nothing? When did this ever work out.
But this is a democracy, the most votes win, so yeah.

10 .

I disagree about it being no different than just letting Sakuya take the food to Flandre. I think the mere gesture of Jin coming down to the basement personally to try to see her shouldn't be dismissed as meaningless, just because it didn't yield an immediate result.

Be realistic, here. We have a very limited time frame to work with, and whatever state Flandre is in, it's clearly more than she can get over in the brief period we're allowed to be down there. It took about three minutes just to get any sort of response out of her, and all she did was open a little hatch and stick her hand out to receive her food.

If Sakuya had been the one to come with the food, I imagine her response would have been much the same, so there's not much difference between the two up to this point. However, that's taking a very short-sighted view of the situation, and only really thinking about the immediate result.

To think that we're going to be fixing things because of this little trip to the basement is thinking in the wrong direction. The better way to view it is as laying the groundwork for fixing things later on.

Right now, Flandre is in a major avoidance mode. She avoided the issue when she left Jin's place, she avoided it when she didn't tell anyone what was wrong back at the mansion, and now she's avoiding it and everyone/thing else by locking herself up in her room.

Had it just been Sakuya going down to deliver her food, she could continue ignoring and avoiding the fact that Jin was there by simply staying in her room. She wouldn't have to see him, wouldn't have to talk to him, and basically it would be as if he wasn't even there until she chose to leave and seek him out.
By having Jin come to her room personally, however, that's not quite as possible. Even if he doesn't say much else, and with the time he has he really can't anyway, the fact remains that he is definitely there. Jin knows she's there, Flan knows he's there, and there is no escaping that fact. She won't be able to just pretend she didn't know he was there, or that he's not there. Plus, since he came down to where she was, she clearly cannot simply hide in her room, either. If she doesn't come out and go to him, he can simply come down to her. Essentially, it makes having to deal with him, and by extension the issues with his would-be killer turned little sister, inevitable.

That, or it could just be that it's a nice way to show that he's at least still thinking about her and wants to see her, even if she doesn't want to see him at the moment. Considering he has kind of forgotten about her in favor of training with Patchy a couple times already, it really would be good to show you're capable of thinking about her, too, wouldn't you say?

11 .

>>10

Well, when you put things in that way, yeah, maybe. But I still think that saying something would have helped, as it would give her something to think and reflect about.

For example, the 'not treating you like a kid' option. It would have had a greater effect on her and she would be forced to leave sooner. It could also lead her to a more mature behavior.

12 .

>>11
the 'not treating you like a kid' option. It would have had a greater effect on her and she would be forced to leave sooner. It could also lead her to a more mature behavior.
There's that but considering what had happened to bring the current situation as it is, it would probably have angered her more; the thought of Jin dismissing her feelings on what she saw as her being childish would be pretty dumb imo.

She does haev feelings for Jin as far as we know and she only knew of Rumia's first attempt at killing Jin and nothing more. She doesn't know the somewhat convoluted situation Jin is in with Rumia. As far as she's concerned, Jin betrayed Flandre but does not understand why. Or at least it's one possible train of thought she's riding on for now.

13 .

The thought of Jin dismissing her feelings on what she saw as her being childish would be pretty dumb imo. Dumb? That's an understatement. I really can't think how could anyone even think about voting that option.

Sorry, I don't want to start pointless discussions, but I really can't see the benefit of voting that. Leading her to have a more mature behaviour? Heh, so the 500-years-old vampire should take lessons from the 16 years old kid who is stupid enough to not achknoweldge that Flandre likes him and to ignore the results of having another girl (that tried to kill him before, no less) in his room and then inviting Flandre like it were the most natural thing in the world?

14 .

>>13

Yeah I 'softened' the statement due to how fragile some egos are on THP. Seriously some take things way too seriously for their own good.

Nonetheless we can agree that we want to make things work but not forget the fact that she's more intelligent than we make her out to be, and possibly much more perceptive than Remilia.

She does not have all those books in her room for decor as she's bound to have looked at some from Voile as well since before Jin's birth.

15 .

Question: How many Sakuya/Patchy/Rumia fans have read the whole story and not jump in from the middle?

>>14
Yes we must always consider that she's not quite as childish as she might seem at times (and even then she's not that childish looking)

16 .

>>15

I have been following the story from the beginning, and I am most assuredly in favor of Patchouli. The chemistry is there, and some good headway has been made in that direction. I have no intention to stop trying to romance her now.

Rumia and Sakuya are both wonderful alternatives if Patchouli does not come out victorious. Flan... I suppose I could live with it, though it would be dull.

17 .

Yeah, flan's route seems to be losing steam, even when it's almost locked.
I dunno, it seems like she'd fit the 'best friend' role better than 'girlfriend' Kinda like what happened with Yukari in P3

18 .

>>17

Are you bald yet?

19 .

Look, I'm a guy who absolutely loves Flandre, and even I am starting to lose interest of going for a Flan route.
Patchy and Sakuya just seem more interesting right now.

20 .

>>17
>>19

I see more and more comments made along these lines. I hate to say it, but the more people talk about 'Flan routes losing steam' and things along that line, the more people get into the mentality that this is necessarily true. I will say that the longer the story goes without having much interaction with Flandre (It's been about a month and a half since there's been any positive interaction with her), the more likely it will become that resolve in following that route will waver. Unfortunately that's the reality of people, and it's true in other situations. Personally I'd rather not see that happen, as I'm interested to see where the route could go and how it'll be written, as well as not wanting the whole story to go to pot if we suddenly switch targets at this point. God-damn I do love Taisa's Sakuya, though.

21 .

not wanting the whole story to go to pot if we suddenly switch targets at this point
I've said this before but I'll say it again. Routes are grouped, we're SDM locked.

22 .

>>20

To me it feels like Taisa is deliberately pushing interaction with Flandre away. When people jump onto the boat late in the game, they go for the most interesting character at that point. Since the story is seeing more of Patchy than Flandre, the target begins to change.

I'm still gunning for Flandre though; until the very end.

23 .

Yes, I haven't actually thought up any of the choices I provide in advance. I'm actually collaborating with the Anti-Flan-Fans (or (AFF™) and playing favorites.

24 .

>>23

Maybe deliberate is the wrong word. But you can't deny that Patchouli gets a lot more attention than Flan.

25 .

>>19
>>20

Well then wouldn't that be just as planned on the part of certain parties?

But I gave up too much to follow the Flan Route (A possible Keine, Youmu or even perhaps a Komachi route), I'm not going to back down now because certain people are doing their best to ruin it.

>>21

You think that a sudden shift from Flan to another route won't damage the story's integrity (either from in story or from outside of it)?

>>22
I think you and everyone else is quick to forget that days in GH go by really slowly. And if it wasn't for that damn choices in the past, This 'day' in GH would be flan filled. I'm sure certain people are terribly pleased with themselves.

That and I know when the story exploded in popularity: When the shitstorms began.

Maybe it's a good thing HY never tried to write a Flandre route since the same damn thing would have happened. (Especially with the Sakuya fans)

>>24

Blame a mix of Patchy fans, "Them" and people obsessed with training.

26 .

Short of pestering Remilia, paling around with China for a bit, or simply sitting outside the manse until another event occurs after the task left by Sakuya is done, all Jin can do is wait until Flandre's willing to come out and face him.

Not to mention aside from few relatively spectacularly troublesome issues beyond making things work out between Jin and Flan, there's the issue with Kaguya and Mokou if we want to make that problem work out; then there's that plot intensive part that Taisa's mention months(?) ago and I have no doubt depending how well Jin (read anon) has done to make any relationship flourish/strong it could result in a poor fate/bittersweet finish for Jin or possibly an awesome as well as satisfying ending.







I'm still gunning for a successful Flan route regardless of the naysayers as, surprisingly or not, I still believe it to be possible to get a 'high rank' on it...

27 .

>>25

Okay, I've tried to be nice about it before, but god damn. You're insistence on believing there is a giant god damn conspiracy against your favorite character is fucking retarded. Just fucking retarded. More irritating is your constant talking back to the god damn writer of the story every time that he posts something that doesn't fit into your view of how the story should go; I mean, criticism is fine, but fuck, all you're doing is bitching. If you think you know so god damn much about how the story should go, if you think that it's going to be such a fucking failure if the writefag doesn't follow your exact expectations, why don't you write your own story?

28 .

>>28
You're insistence on believing there is a giant god damn conspiracy against your favorite character is fucking retarded
I too am guilty of this.

29 .

>>29

That's crazy on your part too, but do you at least refrain from talking about it at every possible opportunity? Because I'm fine with you being paranoid if you're at least quiet about it. Or if you realize that it's just a bit irrational. Whichever works, really.

30 .

I've said this before but I'll say it again. Routes are grouped, we're SDM locked.
I'm aware. While I'm glad you're trying to reassure the reader that things WON'T fall apart, I can't imagine it being any less than hell trying to switch targets. First there's the girl herself, who would no doubt be hurt. Then, Remilia, who's trusting you with her. Finally, add to that all the people who have pretty much bent over backwards to allow us to be with Flan without having to worry about much besides what fuck-ups we caused ourselves. That being said, I didn't intent my comment to be misconstrued as 'ANTI-FLAN CONSPIRACY WOO WOO'. I don't really think the writer would intentionally do that. I DO think, however, that if you want a Flandre route, voting for it and proposing write-ins is a better alternative to baseless speculation.

31 .

>>31

You covered the bases of in story damage, but not quite outside the story damage. One I don't think Taisa is up to the task of a sudden shift, and perhaps in a fit of desperation he resorts to a most delicious type of copout ending: Snow, anyone?

Not to mention the possible fallout from the other fans, the shit storms would no doubt increase if it moves from Flan since the Patchy and Sakuya factions seem to be nigh-equal in strength. That's not including those that would return the derailing favor.

Baseless? Someone admitted in the current thread or the one before it of sabotage via bad votes dressed up as good ones.

http://www.touhou-project.com/th/res/108263.html#108418 was the guy.

And being aware of such things is the best way of preventing such occurrences. Conspiracies work best when no one thinks there's one at all. Just look at the Right Wing Military Industrial complex.

And I do try my hand at votes and write ins.

And to think in HLA, a Yukari fan outed himself then offered up a nice sounding write-in in regards to Ran. Now that's class right there.

32 .

>>22
Your paranoia is overwhelming. The sad thing is, I'm sure that you aren't the only one who thinks (in a manner of speaking) like that.

Yes, Taisa wants to railroad his own fucking story. Rumia route is a-go! Also? Patchwork did the same with HY and Kira totally planned that end in advance.
Cut the crap, will you?

33 .

>>32
First? You don't vote depending of what are the writer's limits in your imagination. You vote and that's that.
Second: Fallout from fans? Are you kidding? No matter what's the route selected there will always be people angry. Don't take that into account, because it's meaningless.
Besides, if people keep with 'Bush did 9/11' posts, the writer will get tired and simply stop the story. Then I'd want to punch them (you) in the face; something impossible sadly.
Last: The phrase, and I quote, 'sabotage via bad votes dressed up as good ones' never made any fucking sense and the anon who posted it failed to explain it properly or to defend it against a single argument. I think that you should try and explain yourself because, otherwise, I can't really see how we can be 'aware' of something that we (I) don't understand.

34 .

>>32

As I said before: you're fucking retarded.

It gets worse though. "Taisa couldn't handle the sudden shift?" What a crock of shit. "Fans would get angry?" Yeah, maybe you! You go on and on about how anyone who doesn't want a Flan route is playing dirty and trying to use deception, but in reality? Your whole fucking post is nothing but phony concern and shitty, transparent scare tactics aimed at cowing a portion of the readers with bullshit fake "problems" you created.

You're nothing but a fucking hypocrite. No wonder you grate on my nerves so badly.

35 .

After reading this Thread i would understand it if Taisa said Fuck it, gonna quit this shit.
I admire him for his patience and endurance.

36 .

>>35

That's not my intent at all, but if you keep on running your mouth like that, when the time comes I might change my mind just to show how I'd do things.

And you act as if there wouldn't be other angry fans, since certainly they would start to blame each other in ever escalating shitstorms should Taisa quit GH. And really at that point, I'd have no reason to stick around the story. No point fighting war that's been lost and is mainly over ego and ideology.

Nothing about my concern is fake, which is unlike your false sense of justice. Out of the small group that realizes such a thing is going on and understands the risks, only I seem to the one who speaks up about it.

Taisa's a newbie of a writer who's prone to making despair, and he's writing a story without many if any safeguards in place. A story which should have them in the first place.


In other weird news: It seems folks that are reading a Flea in the Doghouse in /sdm/ are voting in a Flan direction, without shitstorms and such. Weird, isn't it?

37 .

>>32
...Do you know what 'conspiracy' means? Here, I'll copy/paste the definition for you: "An agreement between two or more persons to perform together a wrongful or subversive act." Now, if you think there is a conspiracy, who do you suppose it's between, and what exactly is the 'wrongful and subversive' act they're engaged in?

Oh, right, it's "anti-Flan fans" and "sabotage via bad votes dressed up as good ones", respectively. Tell me, if I join up with the anti-Flan fans, do I get a secret communicator watch so we can conspire with each other? Is there some sort of detector that I can use to tell 'good' votes from 'bad' ones? Does said device work on 'dressed up' votes, whatever the hell that means?

Let me try to explain it to you once more: there are people reading this story who don't want to romance Flandre. These people are not part of a secret, nefarious cabal; they are ordinary voters, just like everyone else on this site. They aren't trying to ruin the story; they don't want to read a 'snow end' any more than any of its other readers. They are expressing their opinion on how the story should go through voting and discussion, as is their right, and if it wasn't for fuckwits like you who are determined to vilify anyone who doesn't share your opinion, we wouldn't need a thread on /words/ for people to shitstorm.

I'm not even going to ask you not to post here any more. We're past that now. Please, die. I cannot imagine someone as willfully and brazenly stupid as you making any worthwhile contribution to the world at large.

38 .

This thread, and its predecessor, should not have a reason to exist. It disgusts me with every passing thread to know that people will shitstorm about every little thing, to the point of losing sight of the story about which they are shitstorming.

I have a hunch that if it weren't for morons like you, GH would be nearing a second run by now and Taisa would be far more motivated (and thus likely more able) to keep writing.

39 .

>>37
That's not my intent at all, but if you keep on running your mouth like that, when the time comes I might change my mind just to show how I'd do things.
hahaha internet threats oh god

And you act as if there wouldn't be other angry fans, since certainly they would start to blame each other in ever escalating shitstorms should Taisa quit GH. And really at that point, I'd have no reason to stick around the story. No point fighting war that's been lost and is mainly over ego and ideology.
Now I like GH and all, but if Taisa quits it there won't be much of a shitstorm. Just quiet sobbing and well wising, like all those times HY quit.

Nothing about my concern is fake, which is unlike your false sense of justice. Out of the small group that realizes such a thing is going on and understands the risks, only I seem to the one who speaks up about it.
Holy shit, what the fuck is the matter with you.

Taisa's a newbie of a writer who's prone to making despair, and he's writing a story without many if any safeguards in place. A story which should have them in the first place.
Yeah, he's not a real expert like you, Wiseman.

40 .

Taisa would be far more motivated (and thus likely more able) to keep writing.
Pretty much this, but i am happy that he puts more attention to Touhouvania now. It is, like some others on here, a very underrated story that does not get the attention it should deserve.
I can gladly say it is the second best thing i read on THP ever since it's creation.

41 .

>>37
That's not my intent at all, but if you keep on running your mouth like that, when the time comes I might change my mind just to show how I'd do things.
Oh, here we go. What a big bad Internet Tough Guy you are. I'm quaking in my fucking boots.

And you act as if there wouldn't be other angry fans, since certainly they would start to blame each other in ever escalating shitstorms should Taisa quit GH. And really at that point, I'd have no reason to stick around the story. No point fighting war that's been lost and is mainly over ego and ideology.
There would be quiet remorse, you halfwit. Not that we're in any danger of Taisa dropping the story, given that Taisa has repeatedly demonstrated that he has the patience of a saint for putting up with the shitstorms that jackasses like you start at every opportunity.

Nothing about my concern is fake, which is unlike your false sense of justice. Out of the small group that realizes such a thing is going on and understands the risks, only I seem to the one who speaks up about it.
You have got to be fucking kidding me. The reason you're the only one who speaks up about it is because you're the only one stupid enough to believe it.

Taisa's a newbie of a writer who's prone to making despair, and he's writing a story without many if any safeguards in place. A story which should have them in the first place.
He's been writing a fair while now, and I'd be willing to wager he has much better grasp on writing than you have, and a much better grasp on writing than you give him credit for. Again, if you think you know so much about writing, why don't you go ahead and write your own story to show us how it's done?

Or maybe you've already tried that, and your shitty story turned out to be a colossal failure because you don't know the first damn thing about writing?

In other weird news: It seems folks that are reading a Flea in the Doghouse in /sdm/ are voting in a Flan direction, without shitstorms and such. Weird, isn't it?
No, it isn't weird at all, because there is no god damn conspiracy against Flandre, you fucking troglodyte!

You must be the single most delusional asshole on these board.

42 .

>>39
If this thread didn't exist, then all those posts would have been done on the /th/ thread.
Sorry, but just 'willing' for the shitstorms to go won't make them actually disappear.
>>42
You must be the single most delusional asshole on these board. Maybe. But there is a far better way to deal with these people: ignore them.
I'm sure y'all want to enact your righteous vengeance and 'flame' him or whatever, but I think that ignoring people who makes boastful claims (instead of just disagreeing) makes the thread look nicer and works just as well.

43 .

Hey, take it easy!

44 .

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45 .

FAIL IT EASY

46 .

Writefag considering putting story on temporary hiatus.
Thoughts?

47 .

I don't know, ask him yourself why?

48 .

Best idea.

It means more THV.

You know. the story that doesn't have shitstorms and is actually enjoyable to both audience and author?

49 .

temporary hiatus
No such thing.

50 .

Do whatever your comfortable with Taisa.

51 .

Like I said: Forcing a writefag is like forcing a car:
Sure, it will work for a few months, but it will get increasingly worse and will finally explode. I don't need to explain what happens when writefags explode, do I?

52 .

We inscribe their names into the growing Writefags Killed in line of duty list while singing Amazing Grace?
Then we move to Norseman's place and get drunk until we really believe that we are in Gensokyo. Or we sacrifice Wiseman to the gods.

53 .

we sacrifice Wiseman to the gods.
Do you intend to provoke their ire?

I don't think you understand the full weight of the word sacrifice.

54 .

sacrifice Wiseman to the gods
You make the mistake of assuming they would want anything to do with him.

55 .

Anon ruins everything.

Discuss.

56 .

>>57
I agree. They should ban him

57 .

Isn't it possible for some one to go through the past threads and simply purge all the bullshit posting that occurred leaving the rest intact..?

58 .

>>59
Good luck trying to find a mod who is up for that job.

59 .

>>60
I think they meant someone copypasta Taisa's updates and put them all in one thread, or Taisa do it himself. Take the last dozen or so and put them all into one thread, so that you can read it w/o having to see the shitstorms.

60 .

I wouldn't mind doing it, hell I wouldn't mind even keeping the actually funny vote-in comments as well as it keeps another part of the story's spirit intact. I'd just need information on how to do it all and with Taisa's guidance/approval...

61 .

I don't mind, if anyone can honestly be arsed to do so. Some newer readers have informed me that several of the later threads have been difficult to read through.

62 .

Alright then...

Just need a couple of cans of orange soda, would say beer but this is of great importance, and I shall copypasta all the good stuff and do my very best to muckrake the shit. My only problem would be saving the images for all the posts that are kept. I can save them in folders titling them GHthread1, GHthread2 etcetera and try posting them along with the texts. But originally I had planned on saving the text in a pdf format till I remember about the images again...

I'll think of something and then upload the completed "muck-free" edition of the threads for Taisa to look at as he can easily skim them, or so I would assume.

Yeah this sounds overtly complicated but it's for a good cause imo. I'm willing to go over them and clean them up, but posting them in a thread format; I just don't know how these image boards work short of very basic knowledge like any other regular anon.

63 .

Actually I've heard certain writefags use Notepad++ when they write their updates. I've taken a look at the program and it seems to be a much simpler solution and I can tab where which image I number goes where along with the postings.

64 .

Where is my Koakuma killing update?

65 .

>>66
Did that honestly win? Seriously?

66 .

>>67

IT BETTER NOT HAVE, SO FUCKING STUPID GOOD GOD

67 .

>>68
What is stupid about that? She is a fucking man eating monster who would kill us without thinking. And indeed did do it.
Those are not your cute little Touhous, from the weakest to the strongest they all want to kill humans. Probably even the Gods!

68 .

>>69
Better not to agitate the "proverbial" mother bear by outright killing her "cub". Heck the Hunter and Alice managed to get by the mother bear's "play fighting"; no need to outright anger her. Besides it may suit us better in the future.

69 .

>>70
If you live in fear what might happen if you do that, then better stay in a corner or go home.
I doubt that she would stand around and do nothing when we go and kill Remilia. She doesnt think we CAN kill her, but that does not mean that she will just stand still while we kill her.
A serious encounter with her is inevitable in the near future.

70 .

Alright guys, Taisa has confirmed that we're locked into the Fairy Maid Fleur route.

Is this awesome? [y]/[n]

71 .

Thing is though I have doubts that the Hunter and Alice will be capable of totally "destroying" Remilia. Who's to say that perhaps all of their efforts will simply inconvenience Remilia by killing her temporarily or just kicking her ass enough to simply move herself as well as her home somewhere else far away from the human settlements and villages but that's about it; especially if Remilia is that powerful.

Curiously if Patchouli does not believe the two can utterly destroy Remilia, and that becomes an actual truth where they managed to just beat Remilia's game, Patchouli very well may take it as a que that she's free to seek retribution with an extreme prejudice if we destroyed something of great value to her; how valuable Koakuma is to Patchouli here is another matter.

Sparing Koakuma could very well make things go better for the Hunter and Alice towards the end game stage.

Besides why fear something that can't kill you? she tries again fine we can kill her.

72 .

>>72
YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

73 .

>>72

[Y], a thousand times [Y]
Even though he most likely meant it as a joke, it's something I can seriously agree with.

74 .

Is this going to turn out like that 'Ask about mana transfer' event that was also meant to be a joke?

75 .

Yeah, so I asked in the main thread, but this is probably the best place to take it.

The argument I've seen brought up a few places that certain characters are somehow entitled to being pursued simply because they haven't had routes in other stories, or that other characters can be safely ignored because X story is covering them seem rather daft. Why on earth would anyone care about that sort of thing? Different writers tackle the same characters in different ways; shouldn't the decision of which character to pursue in any given story be based on the merits of that specific story's portrayal of said character?

76 .

>>77
That should be how it works, ideally, but it doesn't.

Part of the problem, I think, is that a lot of people approach these stories with the wrong sort of mind-set when placing such importance on "routes". It's all well and good if a particular story actually makes exactly who the protagonist confesses his/undying love for and/or has sex with actually important to the story as a whole, but otherwise such things are generally meant to simply enhance the story, not be the primary focus of it. It's like people are fretting over what condiments to use when eating a meal, with little concern about the meal itself.

Let's use an example posed by someone in the thread, about how Remilia might be a target in GH if she had not already had a route in HY's SDM LA. Now, while there are bound to be at least a few similarities between Taisa's and HY's Remilia simply by virtue of being based on the same character, the specific nature of those interpretations, as well as the context in which they appear, are quite different from each other.

HY's Remilia was basically the central figure of the story she appeared in, with much of the action and events based around her past and personal demons, with the objective pretty much being to put them to rest. Taisa's Remilia, on the other hand, is clearly not the central figure of the main plot of GH, nor is any other resident of the SDM as far as we can see at this point. Assuming that the true main plot is involving the cause of the mysterious heat wave and whatever Reimu is hunting down, that is.

Sure, there are some parallels, if you generalize the stories enough. Both stories have Remilia and the protagonist keeping some sort of secret from the other (Remilia's monster and the truth about the protagonist's "vampire hunter" identity in HY's, and the mutual deception about the truth of Gensokyo, the Scarlets, etc in Taisa's), for example. However, the only logical reason to one such scenario to negate the need to see the other play out is if they way they both played out were the same Considering how clearly aware Taisa is of HY's story, what with the references and all, I would think it to be kind of insulting to suggest he couldn't write Remilia as the main romantic interest without just rehashing what HY did with her.

If GH were about Jin moving into the SDM, helping the sisters re-connect with each other while dealing with the crazy, balance-obsessed maid, and ultimately helping everyone come to terms with the dark secret they've been trying to keep locked away and ignored rather than dealing with it, then not wanting to go for Remilia would make sense, even if the interpretations of Remilia were actually rather different from each other. It's like not wanting to see a remake of a movie when you've already watched and enjoyed the original version. Sure, you might find some fun in seeing what differences there are from the original, but you know there's a lot that's not going to surprise you.

Basically, when people argue against going for a character in one story because they've already had the spotlight in a completely different story, it sounds like they're saying they don't want to eat pizza today because they already had pizza yesterday, when what they're really saying is that they don't want to eat pizza today because they had a cheeseburger yesterday.

They might look vaguely similar, and even consist of some of the same components (meat, cheese, bread/crust, and tomato sauce/paste), but they're not really the same thing.

Of course, this is only if such things are said only to justify why people shouldn't go for a certain character. More often than not, it's generally accompanied by the "we haven't had a story with Character X, so we should go for them in THIS story" argument. While there's nothing wrong with wanting to see a character that has been largely ignored get their time to shine, this particular argument is pretty much fueled by the same misguided mindset behind the "we already went for Character X there, so we shouldn't go for them now" argument.

In short, it's placing an excessive amount of importance on the notion of "routes" with little-to-no concern for how they fit into the stories they're connected to. If you went for someone other than Remilia in SDM LA for example, I am pretty sure the overall story itself would have gone quite differently in many respects. However, can the same be said about GH? Would things be that different if we were trying to romance her instead of any other SDM resident but her? Sure, some events would be different, but in terms of the overall stuff we've had to deal with as a part of school and home life, things could still easily be as they already are, for the most part. Yes, even that night of sweet mana-injecting love-making with Remilia's best friend could still have been possible.

tldr; People need to stop thinking of these stories in terms of character-specific "routes", especially if such things aren't meant to be the primary focus of the story to begin with, and focus more on the stories themselves, first.


Of course, that might not change things, much. The people who want to focus on Patchy might also just simply want to see a story about an affair between teacher and student (though why they would want Patchouli to be the teacher in such a scenario, rather than Keine, is baffling to me), while the people leaning towards Flan would prefer a story of first love between classmates (with a possible chance of some psycho-yandere action).

And they would all be as stubborn and disagreeable as they are showing themselves to be, now. So, basically SSDD.

77 .

>>78

I fucking love you.

Carry on.

78 .

>>78
So true, thank you for taking the time to write this.

79 .

/deepbreath

There are no lolis or toddlers in this story. Every girl is (PHYSICALLY, IN TERMS OF BODY MATURITY AND DEVELOPMENT) either older than the protagonist or around his age. Now stop being fucktarded about it.

Except maybe Suika.
But she doesn't exist, so...

80 .

Also, Flandre has the best legs.

Discuss.

81 .

Hong has the best legs. She trains, don't you know. Sakuya follows shortly after.

If we look outside the SDM, however, Shikieiki clearly has the sexiest legs.

82 .

>>81
Isn't it sad, Suika?

83 .

who cares about legs? it's the feet, guys.

flan has the sexiest little feet.

84 .

You sounds like the guys from JAST. Every Girl is 18+!

I see Flandre as a 14 yr old and Remilia as more mentally mature(around 20 to 30)

Hong has the best legs This. She is the tallest of the sdm bunch so she has the best legs plus, she is the sexiest in terms of mature and older women.

85 .

>>86
While I cannot deny Meiling's status over the rest of the SDM, to proclaim her to be "the sexiest in terms of mature and older women"? I must respectfully disagree. While she might certainly seem "mature and older" from the perspective of a high schooler, compared to the actual "mature and older" types like Eirin, Kanako, and Yukari, she doesn't come even close to their level.

Also, best legs? As much I like Flandre, I cannot accept Taisa's claims so long as we have Mystia and a pair of thigh-highs. Holy Zettai Ryouiki, Batman!
Of course, if some compelling evidence were presented to support such claims, perhaps in the form of a future update devoted to the subject...

86 .

Flan does have the best legs. But that's not all. She also has the best, and most delicious chest in all of SDM.

87 .

best, and most delicious chest in all of SDM Meiling wants to have a word with you.

88 .

>>89

Your Mileage may vary. Hell as much as I prefer Meiling's full figure, women with Flan's, or Kaguya's to a certain extent, "modest" figure is fine too.

89 .

No lolis except Fleur

the true character Jin must get.

90 .

Taisaverse™ fairies aren't loli, they're more like scaled-down teens. Yeah, I know, token disclaimer and all.

tl;dr Fleur has tits, hips and ass. Like Sera. ;_;

91 .

Fleur has tits, hips and ass.
God damn you, Taisa, you lock us into her route for real right now. Right now.

At least give us a spin-off, man.

92 .

>>89

The only good chest, is the delicious flat chest.

93 .

93
This, oh god this.

Seriously Taisa, please.

94 .

>>93

This, oh god this.

Seriously Taisa, please.

95 .

Copy-pasting from /th/ thread:

I spontaneously feel like clarifying more things, as long as people ask (and it's not spoileriffic). Mostly about the various -characters- involved so far.
So, is there anything else y'all are confused or curious about when it comes to Patchy? Or anyone else? Ask, and I just might answer in a not-too-vague manner for a change.

96 .

>>97
Something that has been bugging me for a while: what was with Remilia when we cracked that cannibal joke way back when? I'm hard pressed to remember seeing her more genuinely happy, especially over a cheesy joke like that.

97 .

Why was Patchouli so angry at Rumia back then?

98 .

Something that has been bugging me for a while: what was with Remilia when we cracked that cannibal joke way back when? I'm hard pressed to remember seeing her more genuinely happy, especially over a cheesy joke like that. She thought it was funny.

Why was Patchouli so angry at Rumia back then? Back when, exactly?

99 .

Hey.

Hey, Taisa.

I knoy you were joking about a Fleur route, but is it even possible? I would sort of enjoy a Fleur route, see.

100 .

I'm not sure how to react to that. I just gave one of the random fairies a name because I felt like it.
I'm not exactly sure why people suddenly like her so much, nor did I expect it.

101 .

Nah, I'd vote against the idea. Too much trouble.

102 .

Anon collectively loves fairies almost as much as they each love their own favorite characters.

103 .

I might do -something- with her, though... Maybe. When I've got exams behind me and more energy.

Keep an eye on my /at/ thread in the not-too-near future.

104 .

>>105
Keep an eye on my /at/ thread in the not-too-near future.
I love you, Taisa. I want you to know that.

105 .

>>102

Ignore it. It's just a bunch jokes.

106 .

>>107

Wrong.

I'm not joking.

107 .

>>102

Because fairies are adorable.

108 .

Get back to work Nigger

109 .

Let him recover from his exams.

I would quote you, 110, but I don't know how these fucking text boards work.

110 .

>>111

Different Anon here. Quoting here works the same way it does on normal boards.

One ">" to quote text
Two ">" for th whole post.

Just remember that there is no auto-quote by clicking the post number.

111 .

>>108

An OC having a route of it's own? Hahaha, yeah, right.

Keep on trolling buddy.

112 .

113
Actually, something like that is happening in one of Jerl's stories in /others/. Not that I'm saying it's a trend other stories should follow, but you can never underestimates voting Anon's ability to sway stories in unexpected ways.

113 .

you mean knock it off the rails? Even then, it wasn't the first case of something getting knocked off the rails. DoLF1 kept jumping tracks, MiG couldn't get on them in the first place.

114 .

I miss this story.

115 .

Status report: Half written today, other half will be done when I'm not sick as hell.

I blame karma because I spent yesterday playing Arkham Asylum instead of writing.

116 .

>>116
It was bound to happen sooner or later.

117 .

UPDATES! TWICE IN THE SAME DAY!
*LE GASP*

118 .

sadly shitstorms been abrewing and blustering already...

119 .

So, with new updates and new votes with the name Flandre in them, the arguments have started anew. Kinda nice to see some life on the boards again, even if half of them are Wiseman.

The challenge is: can we find anything in previous updates that would inform us as to how to approach the situation. Past experience has shown that our penchant for illustrating people tends to have a positive effect on the sketchee. That is to say, the people we draw tend to have a better opinion of us. However, Remilia and Sakuya (via feigning rest), were aware of our effort. Patchu is out like a light, so she won't know. However, since we're 0 for 2 in terms of keeping our drawings, even if she doesn't wake up, precedent dictates we leave/give the sketch to her. Patchu has been our mentor, friend, guardian, and something a little more for the better part of our stay in Gensokyo. The write-in seems to speak for itself.

Flandre, however, is open for plenty of interpretation, and that seems to be the basis for many of the disagreements. The core of these disagreements lie in the different assumptions people make. I feel they fall into 2 categories: the first is whether she is looking for us or not. The second is if she'll approach us while we're in the company of Patchouli and Fleur. People in favor of looking for Flan right now believe Flan is looking for us, and that she won't approach us while not alone. People wanting to stay appear to of equal opinion in terms of whether she is looking for us or not, but are of the mind that she will contact us, regardless of whether we we are with Patchouli and Fleur or not.

Quite frankly, it doesn't seem to matter if she's looking for us or not. If she's not looking for us, asking the second question is moot. If she is, either she finds us alone, or she finds us with people. The real question is whether she will only initiate contact is Jin is alone or not.
Patchu has said before that if Flan wants to see us, she will:
>>/th/107687
Wonder what Flandre is doing... Then again, Patchouli did say she'd be more likely to track you down when she wants to see you, rather than you being able to do anything about it yourself, right?
However, we also have the author's word that Patchu is not omniscient when it comes to dealing with Flan. There's almost no evidence that Flandre has the ability to detect who we are with outside the mansion, as evidenced by being oblivious to Rumia's presence at home. Furthermore, of all the time we've spent at the mansion, of the threads still active on /th/ (everything but threads 1 to 6), Flandre has never displayed an ability to find or detect whom we were with. If she were, she'd know about our intimacies with Patchouli. Nor has she been reluctant to approach and interact with us of late. Perhaps, there's some more concrete evidence in the first six threads, but from a cursory analysis of the last 19 threads, Flandre has consistently acted on her desires. Can anyone provide evidence or quotes to the contrary? I think it's an interesting discussion to have regarding her character and future interactions.

120 .

I chose to have Flandre find Jin alone because it would allow them to discuss their problems in private. I don't think she'd be as open with company in the room.

121 .

The idea of Flandre walking on those two and misinterpreting the situation is so fucking cliche'd that I don't think that Taisa'd lower himself to such pathetic excuse for a plot twist.
I mean, what the fuck, this isn't a shojo manga.

122 .

>>122
I don't think she'd be as open with company in the room.
Indeed, but assuming we remain with Patchouli, what necessarily demands we remain situated after Flandre makes her presence known to us? Do people honestly think should Flandre sneak up behind Jin, ask him what he's doing, ask him for some private time... and he rebukes her?

You'd have to be clinically insane to not seize that moment.

123 .

>>122

But the main problem of going out alone hoping Flan will find him and be able to talk privately is the fact that Koakuma is out there as well, and she may be trying to find a chance to get Jin alone as well, for obvious reasons.

124 .

>>125

Koakuma wouldn't try anything with Flandre around. Patchouli was certain she wouldn't be detected by her familiar, and there is no reason to doubt her certainty, yet, Koakuma wasn't there. Now, why is that?

I believe that's not because Patchouli was approaching, but because Flandre was on her way. As Jin has seen on the Mansion's map, Flandre has the strongest presence in the whole place, and she has no reason to be discreet or to hide her presence. Also, vampires are excellent trackers when it comes down to finding who they like, I wouldn't doubt Flandre sensed a demonic presence in Jin's room and decided to send some sort of magical message (that would raise the question of why Patchy wouldn't have felt it too...maybe she was too focused on Koakuma to notice anything?)


I am probably just be overthinking things and trying to find a favorable scenario too hard. But I want some discussion too~

125 .

>>124

The bigger question is: will there be a chance to move somewhere private later?

Or worse: will she indeed go aftr him while he is with someone else, or will she hesitate and leave him be with the others?

Think man. The option to leave the room isn't there for nothing.

126 .

We don't even know if Flan was leaving her room to search for Jin. All we know is that she was beginning to move. It's perfectly possible that there's just something she wants to do or someplace she wants to go to take her mind off of things. Maybe she wants to find someone else to talk to about how she feels at the moment. In all honesty, it's actually a pretty big leap to assume from movement alone that she is coming after Jin, especially when it has been maybe half an hour at most since she wanted almost nothing to do with him.

In the meantime, there is a woman and close friend who passed out right in front of Jin after one of the most hectic and emotional moments we have yet witnessed from her, and she is there with Jin now. Stop letting your stupid quarreling over routes drive you into worrying about what-ifs when there are immediate, pressing issues in front of us.

127 .

>>128
In the meantime, there is a woman and close friend who passed out right in front of Jin after one of the most hectic and emotional moments we have yet witnessed from her, and she is there with Jin now. Stop letting your stupid quarreling over routes drive you into worrying about what-ifs when there are immediate, pressing issues in front of us.
There's much wisdom in this statement.

>>127
will she indeed go aftr him while he is with someone else, or will she hesitate and leave him be with the others?
This was addressed in >>121: nothing has stopped Flandre from approaching Jin while in the mansion, regardless of company.

128 .

128 You forget she calmly went "Would you mind?" before passing out. She can't be in that bad of a shape if she calmly asked that question. There isn't that much of a pressing issue in front of us, just a lull in the flow of events.
The better argument for your case is the risk of getting raped by Koakuma by going out alone.
Patchy fans are ever so quick to say "Stop thinking about routes and look on the biggest problem" only when it suits them best. In stark contrast, when the biggest problem means dealing with Flan, they're quick to ignore it.
You forget that she was down in the basement because she didn't want Jin see her crying, she wouldn't have minded him sticking around if not for Sakuya taking him out of the room. Jin was Flan's first friend she made at school after all.

129 .

>>130

I did not forget anything. Whether or not she was calm, that does not change the fact that Patchouli collapsed, apparently from exhaustion, possibly overexertion on top of that. It may be nothing life threatening, but just leaving her side after that is still a dreadfully insensitive thing to do.

Your accusations about fans of other characters are patently false. I have on other occasions advocated spending time with Flan. Hell, I can rightfully claim at least partial responsibility for creating some of the write-ins that had a startlingly positive effect on her. Contrary to what you might think, just because someone happens not to be as fond of your favorite character as you are does not mean that they constantly try to sabotage the protagonist's relationship with her. The least you could do is return the bloody favor, and not vote to ignore other characters at every junction, especially when doing so would make the protagonist come across as an ass.

Of course, given that you happen to be Wiseman, expecting you not to act like a twit might be asking too much.

130 .

>>131
especially when doing so would make the protagonist come across as an ass.
How so?

You make it sound like Jin is going to just walk out of the room without taking any steps to ensure Patchouli's comfort. She's a big girl and will be just fine on her own for a bit.

131 .

>>132

Of course he would make her comfortable, and in fact he already has. You are also right that she is capable of handling herself just fine. That said, it is simply bad form to wander off and leave a friend alone after they collapse, especially when it is due in part to a highly emotional experience. It is even worse form if you are taking off for the chance of sorting out your own personal problems when you had already promised your friend that you would be helping them deal with an issue of their own prior to their collapse. Even worse form when it is literally a chance to deal with personal problems because you have no idea where, exactly, the person involved with said personal problems is at the moment, they could easily find you on their own, and the last time they saw you they specifically said that they did not want you to see them at the moment, or any time soon.

I cannot speak for everyone obviously, but staying at the side of Patchouli and finding something to distract me while I wait for her to wake up is the same thing I would do for any of my friends.

132 .

>>133

Man, you sound like a creepy stalker who likes tow atch people in their sleep.

C'mon man, you are overreacting this time. Ok, she's so tired that she's sleeping in Jin's bed, but that's it. What's the problem here? What's so important that he needs to stay there whatching her sleep? It's not like she's gonna wet the bed and then Jin will have to change the sheets.

If you want someone to rest properly, you should leave them alone. Staying there, specially with someone else in the room, has more chances of disturbing the sleeping person than make anything useful. Patchy's not sick this time, she's just sleeping; keeping watch over her is more creepy than conforting. Now, if she were in a hospital, dieing or something, then it would be ok for this, but she's not.

She's confortable enough to sleep like a baby, what else do you think thre is to do?

It is even worse form if you are taking off for the chance of sorting out your own personal problems when you had already promised your friend that you would be helping them deal with an issue of their own prior to their collapse
Lol, what? And what exactly is Jin gonna do about Koakuma alone? Patchouli's quest for her familiar is suspended the moment she started sleeping, staying in the room doing nothing is just a huge waste of time. Time that could be better used to actually solve shit before the smell gets too strong to get rid of.

If you are so worried about her, Fleur can keep her company. The effects on Patchy would be the same, and the little fairy would be happy to serve and be useful.

People thinking Flandre is not searching for Jin
Why are you even thinking that? That would be a major dick move if that was so.

133 .

>>134

This is ridiculous. Having the common decency to sit quietly by a friend after they overexert themselves is being a stalker? Honestly? You have absolutely no clue why it might be nice to wake up to a friendly face after collapsing for the reasons that Patchouli did?

The only reason this is even being debated is because this is GH. I guarantee you that in any other story, there would be no complaints about sticking by Patchy's side in these circumstances.

As for your next point, I don't think you have much of a grasp on the situation. If you say you're going to help someone with something, it's standard practice not to gallivant off and do something else, even if that means you have to sit still for a while. Skipping off and getting distracted is right out, especially when there is no guarantee that you'll be able to come back by the time whoever you're helping is awake and ready to get back to work.

I stand by my previous statements on the Flan issue. You have presented no evidence whatsoever that Flan is coming after Jin. She could be doing anything, and I supplied several other things that she would have fine reason to do in my last post. I don't even understand what you're saying about the dick move bit - why would it be a dick move for Flan to have a reason for moving other than Jin?

134 .

You forget that she was down in the basement because she didn't want Jin see her crying
Well, she was certainly clear she didn't want Jin to see her in whatever state she was in. Whether or not it was crying as opposed to something else she wouldn't want him to see of her, however, is a different matter.

>>135
I stand by my previous statements on the Flan issue. You have presented no evidence whatsoever that Flan is coming after Jin. She could be doing anything, and I supplied several other things that she would have fine reason to do in my last post.
Not the person you are responding to, but first of all I'd like to point out that it's kinda difficult to know what these "things she would have a fine reason to do" in your last post, when I have no direct way of telling what your last post was.

However, I do see something addressing what she could be doing in >>128
So, for the sake of this post, I will assume this may have been the post in question. Sorry if I'm mistaken.

It's perfectly possible that there's just something she wants to do or someplace she wants to go to take her mind off of things. This is true. It is fully possible that the reason for Flandre leaving her room is to either go someplace or do something else to take her mind off things.

But how likely is that, really? Flandre's life has been one of confinement in that room for a good number of centuries, with her books and whatever else she has in that locked closet to keep her occupied. While this is just a guess on my part, I think it's reasonable to assume that whatever habits or methods she learned over those centuries for either dealing with or escaping her problems, they lie mainly in that room. Perhaps reading her books, losing herself in their own little worlds, or perhaps it's more violent and she does something involving the thing{s} she was so quick to hide from Jin when he visited.
The point is, after centuries of dealing with things in her room, odds are she hasn't suddenly adopted whole new ways of taking her mind off things outside her room in the relatively brief time she's been free. Old habits die hard, after all.

That her room was apparently the first place she went as soon as she got home supports this, I believe. She didn't go crying to her sister, or asking advice of Sakuya, Patchy, or even Meiling, she went to her room do deal with her emotions alone.


Maybe she wants to find someone else to talk to about how she feels at the moment.
Again, possible, but much like the previous point, might not be so likely if her likely behavior in the past is any indication.
Again, considering the very long periods of time she probably spent alone in her room, willingly or not, do you honestly thing she's used to even the idea of going to others to talk about her problems?

There's signs she may have been confiding in Remilia about things with Jin, if things like the elder sister's questions about Jin's feelings and subsequent chat with her sister in French are any indication, but such things are probably a more recent addition to her behavior rather than something she's used to doing. Some behaviors are more deeply-ingrained in people's minds, however, and it's possible for those behaviors to kick back in under certain circumstances, basically overriding whatever newer behavior they had adopted. Someone who gave up tobacco or alcohol, or has perhaps put themselves on a diet, for example, might "fall off the wagon" and re-adopt their old habits of smoking, drinking, or over-eating in response to stress, possibly in part because that's how they were used to dealing with their stress.

In Flandre's case, if we again assume some things from her centuries of isolation, probably has the behavior of dealing with her problems alone, suffering in silence rather than going to anyone else to talk about them. If we assume that's how she's done things for a couple centuries, then that's probably the behavior that's more deeply-ingrained in her, and could be what she goes back to doing if she is sufficiently upset or stressed-out.

Once again, looking at her behavior after leaving Jin's house, pretending everything was fine in front of others and going straight to her room to be alone, that could very well be what's happened in this case.

But suppose I'm wrong about this particular point. Suppose she is seeking out someone to talk about her problems. Who would it be? Probably not Remilia, who is preoccupied with her plans for whatever party she's wanting to throw, nor Sakuya, who is in probably trying to squeeze all she can out of every possible second to prepare for this party on top of her regular duties. Meiling? Possible, sure, but considering the nature of Flandre's problem, odds are she would want to talk to someone who is at least familiar with the people involved in said problem, and out of all the SDM residents Meiling is probably the one who has been around Jin the least.
Flan also probably not going to any of the other guests to talk about her problems, since they're all currently gathered together, and Flandre has shown herself to be much more quiet and reserved when around people other than members of her household or her close friends.

So, if Flandre were to go to anyone to seek advice about her troubles involving Jin and the girl who tried to kill him, it would most likely be someone who is familiar with both Jin and Rumia, and someone who is familiar to her, thus making it easier for her to open up to them. By process of elimination, that laves Patchouli as the most likely candidate.

The thing is, as we all know, Patchouli is with Jin, and has been from the time Jin "saw" Flandre leaving her room, to the present. We also know from the narrative that in the time between Jin's mind-link with the house to the point where Patchouli collapsed on the bed, approximately twenty minutes have elapsed, many of those minutes spent with the two of them footing it from the library to Jin's room.

Logically, if Patchouli was who Flandre was going to see, the library would be the first place she'd look for her. Even if she didn't run into them on her way there, it shouldn't take her too long to realize Patchy isn't there, even taking the library's size into account, should it?
Plus, as we've both witnessed first-hand and been told of regarding a vampire's ability to find people they're familiar with, especially in their own home, she really shouldn't have too much trouble tracking down Patchouli walking (however brisk a pace it may be) in the halls, should she?

Granted, it could be that she did find them, and not wanting to approach them, kept out of sight.

Let's step back a moment, though. As we know, Jin and Patchouli are together, and have been since the time we know Flan left her room. Regardless of who she was searching for, if she was searching for Patchouli or Jin, there is no way she could find one without finding the other.
That means, if she happen to find Patchouli and Jin, as likely as it may be that she was looking for Patchouli and not Jin, it's just as likely that she was looking for Jin and not Patchouli.

As always, I could be wrong, but I believe that this at the very least establishes that if Flandre was looking for someone in the mansion, that Jin is just as likely a candidate as anyone else.
Granted, this is not proof that Jin was who she was looking for (or, for that matter, that she was looking for anyone) but it seems to me you were using the possibility that she was looking for someone other than Jin as support for the idea that she wasn't looking for Jin at all. In light of that, I think establishing that Jin is just as likely to be someone Flandre could be seeking out to be somewhat important.

You have presented no evidence whatsoever that Flan is coming after Jin. Of course, there isn't exactly evidence that she's coming after anyone else, is there?
I would like to propose, however, that there is possible evidence that Flandre was seeking Jin out. Remember this?

Come to think of it, you think you detected hints of a strange chemical smell when you first entered the room together...
A "chemical smell", if you have forgotten, is something that has been repeatedly associated with Flandre in the past in this story, the most noticeable instances being when she was prepared to blow Rumia away when she was choking Jin, and again when Flandre and Mokou were facing off just after the immortal had her wrist broken.
If we are to believe that the chemical smell Jin believes he detected was produced by Flandre, and judging by how he thought of it immediately after thinking about Flandre, it seems that he at least finds it familiar enough to link it to her.

Now, we also know that until very recently, that Koakuma was present in Jin's room. The warmth that could still be felt on the bed supports this. We also know that, due to a combination of factors, Koakuma should not have been able to detect either her master or Jin.
Now, while this is once again making an assumption, I would think that if Patchouli specifically didn't teleport because Koakuma might sense it, it should be just as possible for Patchouli to sense if Koakuma teleported. Meaning, just as Patchy was walking to conceal her movements from her servant, it may very well be that Koakuma is doing the same to avoid detection by her master. Operating on this assumption, it is highly unlikely that either Jin or Patchouli were the reason for Koakuma's sudden escape from the room. If they were, Patchouli should either have detected Koakuma magically escaping from the room, or either she or Jin should have been able to see her leaving. Naturally, this means that something else must have been the trigger for Koakuma leaving the room.
Combining this with the connection between Flandre and the chemical smell, I believe that something along the lines of what Jin guessed, and that Flandre was the reason Koakuma left the room.

If this is the case, and it's possible it is not, then for what reason would Flandre go to Jin's room, if not because he was the one she wanted to see?

I propose the following scenario: While Jin and Patchouli were tracking down Koakuma's location, the little devil was waiting in Jin's room for the virile young man to return. Meanwhile, perhaps partially due to his brief visit earlier, Flandre decided to leave her room to try to talk to Jin, either by actively seeking him out, or heading right to his room in the hopes that if he wasn't there that he would be coming back, allowing them to talk privately. Either way, his room winds up being her destination, and upon arriving finds none other than Koakuma waiting on Jin's bed. If her reaction to finding Rumia in Jin's room was any indication, I don't imagine she would respond to finding another girl in what is supposed to be Jin's room. Even less so, if she's at all aware of what that girl is, what she does, and why she is probably in that room in the first place. Flandre probably gets...a little unhappy, to put it mildly, thus producing the chemical smell that usual comes about when she starts hovering towards the sort of mood that makes her want to break things. Koakuma, worried enough about what Patchouli would do, naturally lets her survival instinct override her desire to ride Jin's baloney poney, and gets the fuck outta there before Jin and Patchouli get anywhere within view of the door, as does Flandre. Very shortly afterard, the two arrive at Jin's room, only to find it empty, with nothing but the traces of heat on the bed and the smell in the air to suggest that others were there.

Could be completely wrong, but I believe it at least fits with the events as we've seen them.

135 .

>>136
How long did you need to write this?

136 .

>>137
Oh, not as long as you might think.
Frankly, I wish I could write stories as quickly as this took me.

137 .

>>136

Fuck, I love you.

138 .

Meh, it's still assuming too much, but I suppose it makes sense. However, I disagree (as much as you can disagree with a hypothesis) with the last part.
If her reaction to finding Rumia in Jin's room was any indication, I don't imagine she would respond to finding another girl in what is supposed to be Jin's room. Even less so, if she's at all aware of what that girl is, what she does, and why she is probably in that room in the first place 'twas stated that she was angry because he was hanging out with someone who tried to kill him, rather than being jealous of her. Of course, I personally believe that Jealousy WAS involved: her new best friend was being effortlessly taken away by someone who was openly aggressive in the past... I think I'm entitled to believe that after 500 years in a dungeon Flandre has developed a few abandonment issues.
That said, are you suggesting that she saw Koakuma in Jin's bed and immediately assumed all that the situation meant? In the end, is she a kid or an adult? Her mental state selectively deleted certain information? I think that's assuming a bit too much.
Well, my hypothesis (weak as it may be) is that Flandre did saw what Koakuma in his room, did started to RAGE due to the similar situation that happened with Rumia, but, after a hasteful explanation from the little devil, she calmed down and decided to ask Koa Koa for advice. I mean, Koakuma couldn't have simply walked away if she was locked in a room with no witnesses and an angry Flandre standing at the door. Since, like you said, Flan has a relationship with Patchouli, it's very likely that she's familiar with the familiar (wat) as well.

Although my idea isn't really that different form yours, it means a few different things:
-Right now Flandre is not looking for Jin, but talking to Koakuma
-Right now Flandre may be still angry for what she saw in Jin's bedroom
-Due to this sitaution and Rumia's, plus what Jin said to her in the room, she may be believing that Jin was playing her for a fool.
-Due to her proven stuborness, plus the innate vampire pride, any words that Jin may say to her if they meet will fall of deaf ears (Even after all that happened, I don't think she ever stopped believing in him)

So, what should we do? What should we vote? Well, anything.
The point of all this wasn't really to make people change their vote, 'twas to add a little speculation to the story. I strongly believe that the only wrong thing to do now would be to look for her while she's still pissed. Both popular votes are pretty much the same thing, since they all involve waiting for her: You don't really think that she won't look up for Jin if he stays in that room, now, do you? Are you saying that she's scared of the person she trusts the most in the mansion and one of the fairy maids that she meets periodically...? Yeah, right.

So, if both votes are pretty much the same then why all the shitstorms? Well, here is the conclusion of my hypothesis: FOR NOTHING. The 'discussion' that has been going since the last update is the most stupid and pointless one I've ever read and, considering that I follow GH since day one, that's saying a lot.
Sigh.

139 .

That said, are you suggesting that she saw Koakuma in Jin's bed and immediately assumed all that the situation meant?
Not at all. I am merely suggesting that upon finding that Jin was not only not in his room, but that someone else was, that Flandre became rather unhappy. Regardless of what she could or could not perceive of the actual situation, it's been a very emotional day for her so far, and another even remotely similar surprise and/or letdown would clearly be an unwelcome thing to her.

In the end, is she a kid or an adult? Her mental state selectively deleted certain information? I think that's assuming a bit too much.
Actually, it's not assuming much at all, least of all if you're not speculating about exactly what she does or does not know.
Patchouli said it herself, didn't she? That at some time in the past, Flandre basically revolted against her sister, causing a number of casualties before she was finally subdued? Yet, you wouldn't never even be able to tell from how she acts now, would you? She seems to adore her sister, admires her, and seems all-too-used to living meekly in her shadow. From what we've seen of Flan, she doesn't seem like she'd ever so much as back-talk to her sister, let alone wage a bloody rebellion against her.
Throw in the great disparity in the way the two sisters live in the mansion, despite the apparent closeness they share, and it's clear that something is seriously amiss here.

Flandre, naive as she might seem, is still clearly quite intelligent, and yet has thus far shown no sign of even the slightest hint of jealousy or resentment over the fact that while her sister sleeps in a luxurious bedroom with a large ensemble of clothes, while she sleeps in little more than a reinforced prison cell, with just a single outfit and single set of sleep clothes to call her own. She doesn't even seem to question it. Jin was about to cry at the mere sight of her pitiful little room, and yet she appears completely oblivious to what is so sad about her situation.

It's not assuming anything at all to suggest that she either has the biggest case of denial ever, or there are some serious gaps in her memory. Why else would she seem to have no recollection at all of events that Patchouli witnessed first-hand?

The point of all this wasn't really to make people change their vote, 'twas to add a little speculation to the story.
Same here. The only point I wished to make was that it was fully possible Flandre was seeking Jin out, and give a possible theory as to why Koakuma made herself scarce and we've yet to actually see any sign of the little sister.

I strongly believe that the only wrong thing to do now would be to look for her while she's still pissed.
I agree, it would be a bad idea to go after her while she was still angry. However, we have no way of knowing what her exact emotional state is at this moment, nor what the precise reason would be for it. Yes, if that chemical smell was caused by Flandre, then past experience would indicate that she was for some reason in a bad mood when she was in Jin's room. That is, of course, assuming the smell actually was caused by Flandre.
For all we know, it could be a red-herring, or caused by something Koakuma did. Hell, for all we know that's what Patchouli's farts smell like, and she let loose an SBD just as they entered the room. We just don't know for certain.

You don't really think that she won't look up for Jin if he stays in that room, now, do you? Are you saying that she's scared of the person she trusts the most in the mansion and one of the fairy maids that she meets periodically...?
Not at all. I am saying that, perhaps, she doesn't want to approach Jin while he's in the company of someone else. Namely, Patchy. Has she ever come looking for him in the library those times she wanted to see him? No, she either waited for him to get out, or she went off to bed disappointed.

If she went to Jin's room to wait for him to return, only to find someone else waiting for him, too, would she really be inclined to stay there? A more confrontational person almost surely would, but Flan has shown she's not the type who would wait around and question a guy why another girl was waiting for him in his room.
Maybe she assumed Jin knew Koakuma was going to be there, or maybe she did not. Either way, she probably wouldn't want to stay there after seeing that. Where she would have gone after that is anyone's guess, though I would suspect she would once again retreat to her room.

So, if both votes are pretty much the same then why all the shitstorms? Well, here is the conclusion of my hypothesis: FOR NOTHING.
Welcome to a little thing I like to call "The Reason for Every Shitstorm Ever". It's best to just give up on them ever stopping. You'd have more luck trying to dry out an ocean.

140 .

I strongly believe that the only wrong thing to do now would be to look for her while she's still pissed.
I'm sorry, but where did you get such an idea from? Do you honestly believe that waiting alone for her is secretly "look for her"?

There is no option to look for her, not even as a write-in.

-{} Flandre is looking for you. Your best bet is probably to find some place where you could wait for her to track you down, alone.

141 .

A disturbing and paranoid thought: What if Patchouli's sudden and clearly unexpected bout of fatigue was the result of violent interaction between Koakuma and Flandre. How much of Patchouli's mana pool is dependent upon and invested in her familiar? I wonder? I wonder?

Idle thoughts.

142 .

I'm sorry, but where did you get such an idea from? Do you honestly believe that waiting alone for her is secretly "look for her"? There is no option to look for her, not even as a write-in Hi! Let me direct you to the sentence directly after the one you quoted:
Both popular votes are pretty much the same thing, since they all involve waiting for her: And, for good measure, to the sentences directly before the one you quoted.
So, what should we do? What should we vote? Well, anything The point of all this wasn't really to make people change their vote, 'twas to add a little speculation to the story.
So, you see, votes weren't really on my mind when I posted that. I couldn't care less about votes, I just want the story to go on.

143 .

A disturbing and paranoid thought: What if Patchouli's sudden and clearly unexpected bout of fatigue was the result of violent interaction between Koakuma and Flandre.
I don't see what was so unexpected about it. Patchouli is normally not the most physically active person around, nor the strongest. Considering she spent the past twenty minutes straight in constant motion, walking at a pretty good pace when she was clearly already not doing so well before she even left the library, is her body giving out like it did really so surprising?

As for her passing out being linked to Koakuma, keep in mind that Koakuma severed her link with her master, which according to Patchy she can only do by expending a significant amount of effort, and even then only temporarily.

Though it could be that she was distracted enough to not notice any change, the fact that Patchouli was surprised to find Koakuma was not in the room suggests she still could not detect her succubus up to that point, meaning Koakuma was possibly still "disconnected" from her and hiding.

If, by some chance, Koakuma was in the unfortunate position of having to deal with Flandre in one of her more violence-inclined moments, I doubt she would be able to remain incognito for much longer, assuming she would even wish to remain so.

Frankly, if I were her in that position, I'd drop the hiding routine, re-link with Patchouli, and send out the biggest, loudest mental SOS I could to her before the little sister vaporized me.

144 .

>>146

I don't see what was so unexpected about it. Patchouli is normally not the most physically active person around, nor the strongest. Considering she spent the past twenty minutes straight in constant motion, walking at a pretty good pace when she was clearly already not doing so well before she even left the library, is her body giving out like it did really so surprising?
Ordinarily I'd agree with you, but

"...Son of a lich." Spitting out this peculiar invective, Patchouli slams her fist into the wall hard enough to likely cause no small amount of pain to her hand, before stumbling over to your bed and giving you a rather tired glance over her shoulder.

Gives me pause. While it COULD just be a reaction to the physical exertion combined with not finding her familiar where she expected her to be, it seems pretty clear to me that a bit more is going on here, even if Patchouli does not seem to be in any immediate sort of danger. I say 'seem' because it is really impossible to know these things for sure.

145 .

>>147

Nah, you're just being paranoid.

146 .

>>/th/111483
Jesus christ, having to check this thread for votespam made my headache worse.
You lot post way to much shit in one thread. Isn't there threads on /words/ for you to rage in? I'm almost considering keeping my eye on Taisa's threads and just locking them after a number of votes to keep the threads from being choked out by shitstorms, Wiseman and inter-fan raging.
Thoughts?

147 .

>>149
I think that is kinda along the lines of what someone suggested, in that the votes should be called much sooner, but with the addition of making it impossible for people to vote after the polls are closed. I would assume that the thread would then be unlocked once the update is to be posted, and votes are once again needed.

The thing is, wouldn't that require you to coordinate with whoever would be doing the locking/unlocking? I would imagine it's do-able, depending on how well everyone's respective schedules match up.

I have an idea, though I don't know if it's a particularly good one.

Clearly, the attempt to move a bulk of the discussion and shitstorms out of the thread and into here hasn't exactly been working very well. People are already posting in the thread to vote and provide reasons for those votes, so it's probably only natural to people to want to respond in the same thread. Responses lead to more responses, and so on, and so forth.
While some have come here to discuss things, clearly not everyone has.

So, my idea is this: instead of trying to move discussion from the thread into /words/, you move the voting from the thread into /words/?

If the only way to have your vote be counted is to post it in here rather in the thread on /th/, people will have no choice but to come here, and a lot of the discussion that is still taking place there will come along for the ride.

It won't make sorting out the votes from the discussions/shitstorms any easier, I'm sure, but it might help increase the number of updates and thread receives before hitting autosage.

148 .

There is no good reason to care about how many updates we get per thread. Threads are not an exhaustible resource, and if you don't want to see discussion, you can just Ctrl+F "!YTVxxKH.bU" and get nothing but updates.

What is worth caring about is separating reasonable, level-headed discussion from shitstorms (and shitstorms about shitstorms, and shitstorms about shitstorms about shitstorms). If the /words/ thread has any purpose, it should be that, and as it happens, it's actually serving that purpose quite nicely as things are; the shitstorms stay in the main thread, and this thread is mostly rational, thought-provoking discussion. (With the exception of Wiseman's posts, of course.)

I say stay the course. Mode will just have to open a Paypal account and make GH readers kick in to buy him some aspirin.

149 .

There is no good reason to care about how many updates we get per thread. Threads are not an exhaustible resource, and if you don't want to see discussion, you can just Ctrl+F "!YTVxxKH.bU" and get nothing but updates.
Threads are not an exhaustible resource, but the space for those threads is. Every new thread created is one more old thread that gets bumped off of the last page. For just GH, the first six are now gone, and the seventh probably isn't long for this world, either.

I don't know about you, but I happen to appreciate the ability to read through past updates and discussion, especially if there's information that's pertinent to a more recent update or discussion. Having those threads and posts still on the board also means I can link back to those relevant bits rather than copy and pasting them from some archive, or relying upon my memory, and hope people take me at my word.

I would also think it's something of a matter of courtesy to the other stories and readers to not needlessly bump down and shove off their threads with new ones just because a portion of the readership have filled the last one with Unnecessary Shitstorm #867 over why whatever option that just won is the worst possible thing that could have happened and how horribly wrong things are going to go because of it, and/or why liking your favorite character is wrong and why you're a horrible human being because of it.

Not that there's anything wrong with old threads dying off and shuffling off the board, in and of itself. That's just part of the natural process of boards like this. But if it's going to happen, I'd rather it be due to threads like the oldest of the GH threads still here. The ones that lasted only seven or eight days, had an update for almost every one of those days, and brief bits of discussion between the voting.
Compare that to what we have now. Threads that last around twenty days, give or take, have only two or three updates in that span of time, typically over half the thread being...well, you know. Hardly stuff I would consider worth snuffing out an old thread for.

Some might say that it just goes to show that more frequent updates would possibly help matters, as far as discussion goes, and perhaps they are right. Less time between updates would very likely mean less time for discussion to devolve as they tend to do when given enough time.

Sadly, as much as we might wish otherwise, there really isn't a whole lot we can do to make updates happen more frequently. Not directly, anyway. What we can do, however, is try to make updating not be such a pain in the ass when the desire to update actually arises. If we're to reach a point where updating this story is enjoyable again, we must first work to stop what we're doing that's been making it less enjoyable. Something that's not likely to happen if we simply "stay the course".

150 .

To be perfectly honest, I find myself agreeing with a comment that was probably made in jest. There seem to be more posts now in the main thread that bitch about shitstorms than there are actual shitstorms. We might be better off if people would just try to shut up for half a second about how other readers are ruining the threads.

151 .

Flow of things in a typical update: Arguments trying to sway neutrals > Shitstorms where the competing fanbases bash each other and the other characters > Shitstorms about the Shitstorms> so forth.
Calling the vote sooner could cut off the shitstorms in their first stage.

152 .

I can't fucking believe this. For fuck's sake ANon, stop avoiding Flandre!

153 .

>>155

Hello, wiseman. How are you?

154 .

>>156

So wiseman is anyone/everyone now, huh?

I just can't believe Anon is prcrastinating yet again. Goddamn, there are important things that need to be done instead of waiting someone to fucking wake up.

155 .

>>157

Well I wouldn't say hope is lost for the matter of Flan. Since how Koa's in the room as of the latest update, we can make progress now. I must say I never see Sakuya fans being so spiteful.
It's like the old witch hunts, but instead of labeling anyone you don't like a witch, you label them Wiseman.

156 .

Not to mention it could have been another silly bad end instead of actually meeting up with Flandre; especially considering how close Koakuma had been. Seems as if the mansions become more... "attached" to Jin in perhaps allowing him to sense where the others may be, or maybe it's just a lasting effect from Patchouli's ritual from earlier.

Also before wiseman it was YAF and I forget one other guy.

On another issue, if the older threads of GH are gone, have they been archived or is Taisa the only one with the original text sans votes..?

I don't know if I'd laugh real hard or cry knowing that in all that time, it just disappeared ridiculously by the posts of anon.

157 .

>>157

You people are never fucking happy, seriously.

It's not procrastinating, it's being smart, because for one, going out ALONE would have most likely run us into Koa who would have done something dangerous to Jin.
And going out searching for Flandre? No, just no. It's been clearly stated several times that she will find us when she's ready to talk.

158 .

Are there any constructive posts in this thread that actually discuss or help with the story or is there only shitstorm?

159 .

>>159

I dunno man, I believe Koakuma entered the room not because of Jin, but because of Patchouli. If she wasn't sleeping, I'm sure Patchy would go look for the succubus, even if randomly.

>>160
And going out searching for Flandre? No, just no. It's been clearly stated several times that she will find us when she's ready to talk.
For fuck's sake, THERE WAS NEVER ANYTHING ABOUT SEARCHING FOR HER. It was clearly stated on the options that Jin would be waiting for her, not searching.

160 .

is Taisa the only one with the original text sans votes..? Actually, I don't keep backups of my own writing.

161 .

>>163

That's bad, you know.

162 .

>>164
Well, I never really saw any particular reason to do so. Why's it bad?

163 .

>>165
someone needs to rar up the first 8 or 9 threads and put it on sentrygun because they are gone.

164 .

Some of the post here are even more rageworthy than /stormfront/ but replying will only make this thread shittier. Oh well.

165 .

>>167

Well, this is why we came to /words/ in the first place. It just happened that most talks here have been civil.

166 .

>>167
That's what this thread is for. In theory.

167 .

It doesn't help that most shitstorms start out as arguments to persaude people before becoming such utter shit. They don't take them here because the neutral voters AVOID this board due to the belief it's filled with pure shit. It's funny how things end up working out in regards to this.

168 .

>>166

For all we know they are long lost ;_;

Unless THP got something of a reserve or back up of the old threads..?

169 .

So, it looks like Flandre may have done some damage to Koakuma while we were searching for the little devil. I realize that Flan may not have been too happy to find Koakuma in our room, but this is the sort of behavior that we really need to correct. Flan is entirely too possessive, and it isn't healthy. We ought to confront her on this one as well when we explain how she overreacted to Rumia being present in our room.

170 .

>>172
That's a good point, but keep in mind that Koa was there to suck Jin dry. Flandre was right and Koakuma only appeared to reasonably talk to him after Flan gave her the scare of her life.
Were Flandre methods correct? No, she could have simply used threats and that'd been enough. Were Flandre methods an improvement? I think so, because she didn't go all out.
I mean, if Flandre didn't hold back, then why is Koa alive? We're talking about a Vampire who kills things with a thought here. Y'know, literally.

tl;dr: The method could use some work, but she did saved Jin's ass. A 'thanks' is in order, I think.

171 .

>>172
That's part of the plan, provided that no one gets in the way of doing that. But Flan did indeed hold back a great deal, since Koa only looks roughed up slightly as opposed to suffering massive damage.
>>173
Hard to tell but I think Flan would know of Koa's nature. Flan would be naturally upset at Koa seemingly making a move on Jin. But I do think we lost our chance at koasex, but it might have been just as well.

172 .

While I do believe that Flandre was there, and was likely the reason for Koakuma's suddenly escape from Jin's room, whatever happened to the notion of "innocent until proven guilty"? For all we know, Koakuma's state was more due to her own panic, rather than anything Flan did directly.

Granted, the "fell down the stairs" thing Jin supposed is the oldest euphemism for "someone beat her ass" in the book, but what if she really did accidentally hurt herself in her panicked attempt to get the hell out of there? When faced with the possibility of complete obliteration, you probably wouldn't be mindful of things like making sure your tail was out of the door before you closed it, among other things.

More likely though, yes, if Flandre was there, she probably did do or say something to Koakuma directly that led to her more subdued and apologetic manner when she came back to the room.

Still, if that is what happened, the fact that Koakuma was not only still in one piece, but actually sorry for her actions and realizing she had done something wrong is quite remarkable. Of course, whether or not this sort of outcome was Flandre's intent is a completely different matter.

Still, this works out, doesn't it? Supposing that Patchy has a nice chat with her "daughter" once she finally wakes up, perhaps she'll forgo whatever punishment she originally intended, and not just because there's little else she could do that would compare to what Flandre could do to her. After all, what better outcome could a parent hope for from their child than for the child to realize what they did wrong on their own?

173 .

>>175

The chemical smell in the room when Jin entered it proves that Flandre got at least pissed. But there is more. The smell doesn't come out only when she is pissed, it comes out when she's charging her lazer.

And when she charges her lazer, either she uses it, or someone stops her from using it. Considering she was alone with Koakuma, she used some extent of it.

174 .

Is it just me, or is the leading "king recklessly charged ahead" line more derp than deep? It isn't saying anything particularly insightful about the situation, and in fact seems to be wildly mischaracterizing the situation. It's painfully obvious what Flan is using the game as a metaphor to describe, and responding in this way makes it seem as if Jin is saying that having anyone other than Flan show interest in him is a horrible, inescapably cruel fate, which is ridiculous given both his established character, and the fact that Flan's overly possessive view of Jin and the current circumstances is not at all healthy. The last thing we would want to do is validate that view.

Plus, it sounds a lot like someone trying to spit a "clever" line but failing miserably, which is just embarrassing.

175 .

Well, to be fair, trying to spit a "clever" line but failing in an embarrassing manner would be somewhat in character for the protagonist...

Anyway. What do you think this situation 'symbolizes' (if anything at all) to begin with? Rumia's darkness engulfing Jin? Or her own sister's grasp, gradually stealing the guy away from her? Or both? Or something else entirely.

176 .

>>178

Much simpler than that. Flan is just talking about the way that so many other girls have become friendly with Jin, and is regarding them as rivals for his attention. While that may be true to some degree, its ridiculous to expect anything else - everyone divides time between all their friends. That's natural. It seems to me at least that Flan is being possessive in her mindset - trying to "capture" the "king" herself implies taking the piece off the board, and away from the other pieces. In other words, she seems to want Jin all to herself.

I realize that's just my interpretation, but I can't really think of an interpretation where talking about how Jin recklessly charged ahead is really a good response.

Although, I have to concede, you may have a point as far as flubbing clever lines being in character for Jin goes...

177 .

>Much simpler than that. Flan is just talking about the way that so many other girls have become friendly with Jin, and is regarding them as rivals for his attention. While that may be true to some degree, its ridiculous to expect anything else - everyone divides time between all their friends. That's natural.
I'm sorry, but it's true "to some degree"? We're not just "spending time" with one of our other friends, we're living with them. And not just any "friend", but the one who tried to kill him.

And let's not forget how much time at the mansion has been spent with Patchouli in the library, rather than with Flandre or even Remilia, even when one of those two were the ones who invited us to stay over in the first place. We've skipped out on meals with them, skipped out on so much as even saying "goodnight" to them, and one time we never even actually saw one of them during the span of our visit. And, while we're on the subject of skipping out on things, let's not forget all those after-school meetings we've not attended for the meeting we're supposed to be a part of with Flandre, to the point that the only other member has become increasingly cold and hostile towards us.

Now, look at this from Flandre's perspective. He's hardly been to the club he helped her build, which would have been ideal "together" time for them. When he's visiting her in her own home, he spends most of his time in the library with someone else, often not even coming out to have dinner with her or even trying to see her before it's time to sleep. Then, just this morning, she's discovered that he's not only friends the person who tried to murder him on his very first day of school, but is now on friendly enough terms to be living with her.
And now, most recently, she's just discovered the succubus that lives in the library that Jin has spent so much time in was waiting for him on the bed in his room.

Throw in the fact that these two most recent revelations have come on a day that was, more or less, going to be the very first time she and Jin were going to be able to spend some real quality time together alone, without Sakuya or Remilia or someone else tagging along.

While I'll agree that her current mindset does appear to be a bit on the possessive side, the feelings that have led her to this point, I feel, are more than justified when she discovers that the guy she likes has not only spent more time alone with their teacher than with her, but more time alone with the girl who attempted to murder him.

If it looks as if she wants Jin all to herself, I would suggest that's simply because, with the way things have been going up to now, that appears to her to be the only way she'll manage to get any real time with him at all. Regardless of what our reasons for it was, the fact is that we really haven't been doing such a good job of divvying up our time in an even and fair manner when we've had the chance.

Flandre's current mindset needs to be corrected, yes, but I believe we need to correct some of our own behavior as well. If we want Flandre to understand that we can spend time with her in addition to the other girls, without her trying to monopolize us, we first must show we actually can spend time with her without anyone monopolizing us.

178 .

>>180

Talk about an overreaction. All I was saying was that it isn't realistic for Flan to expect his undivided attention, which is what she appears to want. I didn't mean anything more than that, so relax.

Just to talk about some of your concerns, though, I think it's fair to say that Jin has spent more time with Flandre than he has with most of the girls. You seem to have forgotten that he has twice slept in the same bed as her, generally partners with her during class, eats lunch with her more often than not, took her out on his journey to Eientei (which he went out of his way to do), brought her along to show her some of the obligations he's had that prevented him from attending the book club, and made the offer for a whole day together in the first place, even if that one fell through due to circumstance. He has displayed more than enough willingness to spend time with her. The only person he has spent more time with is Patchouli, which is to be expected given that she is both his mentor and a close friend. The closest any other character has come to spending as much time with Jin as Flan has is Remi, and that's partially because Remi is her sister.

Don't forget that if Flan is thinking too possessively, then failing to correct it quickly will just let it build off herself. If she wants Jin's undivided attention then just part of it will not satisfy her, and seeing him pay attention to others is just going intensify her desire to have him entirely to herself, no matter how trivial the attention in question happens to be.

She has serious mental instability, and that's something that deserves consideration.

179 .

>You seem to have forgotten that he has twice slept in the same bed as her, I haven't forgotten, I just don't believe it counts as spending time with someone when the two of you are spending most of that time unconscious, even if it's in each other's arms. Even less so when one of those times ends with her fleeing the room in horror and despair at the realization that she hurt him, and spent god-knows-how-long in the bathroom, sobbing over the fear that he was going to hate her from now on.

>generally partners with her during class Again, didn't forget, just don't think it counts since they're classmates and, as you yourself point out, it's during class. Who do consider yourself to be closer friends with; the person you sit next to work with in school (even if by choice), or the person you spend much of your time outside of school hanging around with? Assuming they're different people, that is.

>eats lunch with her more often than not Okay, that one I'll give you, though I would question just how much quality time you can squeeze out of lunch break, but that might just be me being picky.

>took her out on his journey to Eientei (which he went out of his way to do) A journey he was undertaking to see someone else, for the sake of someone else, and much of it being accompanied by someone else. It was a nice gesture, some good things were said and done, but when the point is that the two of them are lacking serious quality time with just the two of them, this is not a very good example. Also, it was accompanied by a bout of frantically running for their lives from a bunch of wild youkai, and Jin being passed-out for a period of time afterward.

>brought her along to show her some of the obligations he's had that prevented him from attending the book club
Er, what obligations? I hope you don't mean those lessons we offered to give Mystia, mostly in the hopes that she'd be less-inclined to help Rumia kill us, because in case you've forgotten we have yet to even give her any. We brought our guitar for her to practice with, played two songs for the sake of demonstration/showing-off, and that's it.
Thankfully she's highly self-motivated and working to teach herself, regardless.

Keep in mind, what Flandre wants (and has even stated as much) is to be able to spend some time with him alone, just the two of them. It's what she was hoping for when he invited her along on his trip to Eientei, and why she had made the move to invite him out for the weekend. As I said, though, I agree she is being a bit too possessive, and this attitude needs to be corrected. Especially before it leads to something unpleasant happening. However, if we are to help her, we must first try to understand where she is coming from in all this.

180 .

>>180
Yeah I won't go into the details, but we have yet to spend a good deal of quality time without something ahem, derailing things. But at least I can say things are more overt in nature now, the shitstorms are a sign of that.

>>182
Those lessons were more given due to a "Hey let's give Mystia lessons" than Rumia related reasons. The fact we promised that paid off when she popped up with Rumia by sheer chance. But other than that I do agree. THe hard part is doing so without interference.

181 .

>>183
Those lessons were more given due to a "Hey let's give Mystia lessons" than Rumia related reasons. The fact we promised that paid off when she popped up with Rumia by sheer chance.
Really? Because I distinctly remember how, prior to us offering her those lessons, we saw her and Rumia whispering to each other about something while occasionally glancing at us. On top of that, there was also that prank where "someone" left a bunch of raw lamprey in our shoes in our locker.

In-story, Jin's motives may have wound up seeming a bit more altruistic, but for the voters who were driving his actions? Not so much. I think we had a general idea which way the wind was going to blow, and acted on it before it could become a problem.

182 .

Starting today, depending on how things go, I'm either going to end up having tons of free time for a while... or almost none of it. Stay tuned.

183 .

Somebody remind me: in the scene where we got jacked off in bed, did the bad end say that all we saw were red eyes, or am I confusing that with HY's bathfap?

Because it occurs to me that another name just came off the list: Koakuma. The person was speaking; we heard them. Yet Koatalk drives men crazy with lust, and that wasn't happening, as I recall.

If it was red eyes, that also eliminates Patchy, I think, unless she was given red eyes in this story.

I'm suspecting Remi, hoping it was Sakuya, and praying it wasn't Flandre.

Also, if this has been debated before, I apologize. It's just that the bit with Koakuma's voice sort of disqualifies her (unless I'm mistaken), and that was a somewhat recent development, so I thought I'd mention it.

Would've asked in the thread except it's in autosage, and here is probably where it should go anyway, I guess.

184 .

>>186

I honestly do not believe it could have been Sakuya. If she can barely take a break of her work, how would she have the time to give a handjog to a sleeping man? There was no timestop either, since Jin was councious of everything that happened.

That leaves only Remilia and Flandre left. And I don't think (nor do I hope) it's the older sister

185 .

>>187

And I don't think (nor do I hope) it's the older sister
Both possibilities are disturbing. While it happened quite awhile ago, the fact that it was almost certainly one of the sisters, our closest friends in Gensokyo, makes me wonder. If it was Remilia being impulsive and reacting thoughtlessly to something she initiated, then fuck that's cold. If it was Flandre and she killed him reflexively, or because of an 'episode' or something (I find it more likely Jin would've been reduced to bloody pulp had this been the case, much more her way), that's a whole different set of problems.

>>186

I'd agree. Remilia seems the most likely candidate for the mysterious handjob, even ignoring the scene's parallel in HY's EoSD, due to a number of things:

"Awh, how boring of you... And I was hoping to take you back to my bedchamber with me~!"
Your faces are inches from one another after she finishes, both of you breathing heavily from excitement. She smells absolutely delicious. You're both smiling, staring into each other's eyes. ...what is this mood?
Just a few but there are/were plenty of other indications that Remilia was/(is?) interested in us, especially more so earlier on in the story, that I can't be bothered to look up.

While Flandre being the mysterious handjobber is a distinct possiblity, several things help to eliminate her in my mind.

"...oh." She noticed. Well, it's hard not to notice, really; not that you're bragging to yourself about your proportions or anything, but there's not a particularly thick layer of cloth covering you, just the rather thin sheet and a pair of boxers. >"...so it got like this."
This seems to be the biggest tip off in my mind. Whoever it is knew exactly what they were looking at.

"Humm... Hey, Jin?" Something distracts her in her process of snuggling you into a severe state of unrest. "What's that?" Oh. Well. Yes, of course -that- would be poking at her in this kind of situatio-...
While it could be written off as feigning ignorance, she really did seem legitimately surprised. Or something. Maybe I'm just reading too much into this.

It's... difficult to tell just how experienced this person is, whoever it truly is that is giving you the spontaneous handjob right now
This raises a few doubts, but despite the intentional attempt to keep their identity ambiguous, it still all feels a little too much of a leap for me to think Flandre was behind it. Ah well, useless rehashing.

186 .

Or Taisa is fucking with us hard, and it was actually Rumia.

187 .

>>189

You know, that actually kinda makes sense, crazily enough.
It would certainly explain why the culprit was so quick to silence Jin after poking his eyes out, and in such a direct-yet-brutal manner. Whoever it was, they clearly didn't want anyone else to hear him, meaning what they were doing and/or what they did was a problem, or their very presence there was a problem.

If it was Remi, the only person she would have to worry about keeping this from was Flandre. She would have nothing to fear from anyone else in the mansion finding out what she did in her own home. If she was prepared to splatter Jin's insides across the front of the school in broad daylight, there's no way she'd be any more restrained in her own home.

If it was Flandre, while she certainly would have a lot more to worry about being discovered, unless she was in a mind-set completely unlike anything we've seen from her (which is possible, being mentally unstable and all), it's hard to imagine her being so quick to harm someone she has otherwise shown nothing but concern for the safety and well-being of.

But if it was someone else entirely? Someone who was not only not supposed to be doing what they were doing in Jin's room, but not even supposed to be in the mansion in the first place?

Of course, the big problem with that theory is, why would she be there at all? Considering her feelings towards the residents, not to mention their own feelings towards her, it would be a huge risk just to set foot on the island, let along in the mansion itself. How could sneaking into Jin's room possibly be worth that level of risk?

Then again, this is ignoring the chaotic nature of the mansion's layout, and the effect it would have on the likelihood of a non-resident being able to find the one occupied guest room in the place, and manage to do so without alerting anyone else in the mansion in the process.

188 .

>>188

Now you have me wondering, what happened first? The sleeping together or the handjob? I honestly cannot remember.
>>190

You forget that at the time Rumia wanted to kill Jin, probably with huge amounts of physical pain, not pleasure.

189 .

>>191

Handjob first. Or at least, it came before sleeping with Flandre at Keine's house. Unfortunately I'm missing like thread's worth of the story anyways. Can't seem to remember whether Flandre bit Jin before the handjob incident or not, which seems to me to have been the only real other opportunity she would've gotten to examine Jin without his knowledge. Probably.

Remilia still seems the most plausible to me. Especially considering right before Jin went to bed the night before, she offered to 'take him off to her bedchamber'.

190 .

A question in regards to the shitstorms, is anyone purely/mostly motivated by pride, as to say "I won" to everyone else? Or are all folks involved truly dedicated to their causes?

191 .

>>194

Perhaps my faith is misplaced, but I believe that has little to do with it. I get the feeling it's a few jaded fanboys trying to press whatever advantage they can get to ensure their favorite character wins, and are willing to throw reasonable-thinking to the wind. I could sort of understand in another setting, but not when actions and posts have direct repercussions on the writer's inclination to write, and the overall quality of discussion in general. It's easy to tell Taisa or whoever to suck it up, but personally, I would feel pretty shitty if the story I put so much effort into had apparently become the breeding grounds for angsty fanwars.

All we can do is hope Taisa and other writers understand that these few instigators are by no means the majority, nor condoned by anonymous in general. Even so, I can empathize with the frustration.

Also, for those of you who haven't, read >>78. It's quite informative. And accurate.

192 .

>>194

Clarification: Overzealous voters exist for all parties. While differences of opinion are an inescapable reality when considering GH, it's mostly a handful of individuals doing the real shitstorming for the girl they want, with many ordinarily decent anons invariably being dragged along, probably against their better judgement (such has been the case with me on at least one occasion).

Meant to quote >>193 with that last post.

Sage for posting back-to-back.

193 .

>>195
I read >>78 and it was informative, and as far as the Keine matter, I think she was out of the running due to the decision to sit next to the sisters due to seeing Patchouli more in the process.

There's also the fact that when Flandre's fans saw how she was, they decided it was a path worth following, sacrificing their plans for say a Youmu or Keine route. I believe most fight back as hard as they do for those reasons. Another reason is that they feel the story was going her way before a bunch of people appeared and insisted on otherwise. Various things up to this point has weakened the Flandre's fans' hold on things and as such they will fight fiercely and desperately.

Isn't it bad form in CYOAs to go about trying to abruptly changing a target? I'm not saying other fans didn't exist before that moment, just that more of them.

I asked the question because I was talking with someone and they said "If Routelocks are not feasible to Taisa, why not a harem route?" My answer? "If he's willing, why not? But the prideful fans won't stand for it."
I think pridefaggotry was in HLA2, at least early on.

But I'm curious to see what makes a Patchouli Fan tick, since I know it certainly can't be a mix of liking her and "Flan Route is Pedo route, thus we must beat them for all that is good". I sincerely want to find out the answer. Perhaps by understanding one another better, we can reduce the shitstorms. A factor in shitstorms is nigh-hate level animosity.

194 .

>>196

What makes a Patchouli Fan tick?

I can't speak for all Patchouli fans, but I find myself attracted to her for a number of reasons. Aside from the obvious fact that she happens to be quite beautiful, I think her quiet, reserved disposition is charming and makes it all the more significant when she openly displays emotion, or makes a gesture driven by emotion. In spite of her cool exterior she has obvious soft spots for those around her, and is usually willing to admit that, albeit in a dignified and subdued manner. She is understanding, and when she doesn't understand, she always puts forth the effort to. Her academic drive is admirable, as is her willingness to teach.

Perhaps more importantly, in terms of compatibility she makes the perfect complement to Jin. Where he tends to be idealistic and emotional, she tends to be realistic and levelheaded. Under normal circumstances opposites-attract is not that reliable, but here the two of them click because they recognize the merits in each other: she has seen and experienced firsthand the effect his determined, forgiving disposition can have on others, and there is a very good reason that he continues to go to her for advice. His creativity and artistic bent takes a different track than her scholarly and scientific bearing, but the two fundamentally connect as the domains of the intellectual.

A relationship between Jin and Patchouli would be interesting to read, simply because the two of them are so suited for each other. The two of them have wonderful chemistry, and wonderful potential together. They can and have teased each other, they share interests and drive for self-improvement, they both have had powerful reactions to the trouble their friends get into, and they are willing to understand each other...

Flandre, on the other hand, simply doesn't interest me in the same way. Sure, she's cute, but that really doesn't cut it for me. In the early portions of the story she came off as far too innocent for me to be comfortable seeing her in a relationship with Jin, and as more of her mental instability is revealed I find myself instead turned off by how off-putting she really is. The clinginess, the violent nature we glimpsed when she silently threatened Rumia,the naivete, the fact that she is capable of blending them all together in the way she does... Do I feel bad for her? Certainly. Do I want to help her? Absolutely. Do I like her? Without a doubt. Am I attracted to her? Not in the least. I have seen others describe her as "datable," but I just don't see it.

I don't think reading about a relationship with her would be terribly fun either. She's inexperienced enough that a drawn out, overly shy and awkward relationship is almost a guarantee. I realize that some people like the whole "first love" type of relationship, but it just does not interest me in the slightest. This is compounded by the fact that she has as many mental problems as she does, which is a good recipe for getting bogged down in a mire of relationship troubles at the slightest unpredictable slight, which strains relationships for obvious reasons, and is unpleasant all around.

I don't see her as that much of a complement to Jin, either. She likes to read, which is nice, but everything else she does tends to be initiated by others. This is just a disadvantage caused by her confinement, but it is a real one to my mind. She doesn't have the experience to really come into her own yet. To be honest, this has kind of cemented her into a little sister figure for me: I have trouble getting romantically invested in a character whose chief draw is that we have the chance to help her grow up.

Ultimately, I will likely keep reading GH no matter who Jin chooses, but a Flan "victory" would dim my interest substantially, especially when Patchouli is so much more interesting. If I have the chance to give Patchouli a stronger role in the story, why shouldn't I? I don't think I'm any different than the average voter when I say that I vote based on what I want to read.

195 .

>and there is a very good reason that he continues to go to her for advice.
Because, aside from her general wisdom, she's the only person in Gensokyo who he has been able to afford to be honest with while he is/was continually deceiving everyone else, be it actively or passively, about his knowledge of the truth about that place?

>In the early portions of the story she came off as far too innocent for me to be comfortable seeing her in a relationship with Jin, and as more of her mental instability is revealed I find myself instead turned off by how off-putting she really is. The clinginess, the violent nature we glimpsed when she silently threatened Rumia,the naivete, the fact that she is capable of blending them all together in the way she does...
Funny thing is, one of the reasons I find Flandre so much more interesting is precisely because she blends all those discordant traits together. The notion that this girl, who by all appearances generally seems completely sweet and innocent most of the time could harbor such a dark side fascinates me. Even more so, given the hints and information we've received that suggests that we've barely scratched the surface of what she's truly capable of.

Learning about her history is also a big part of her appeal, to me. While I don't doubt Patchy has tons of her own interesting stories to tell, I'm more curious about the journey from Point A to B to C and so on played out in Flandre's past.
How do you go from being a little girl to a nigh-unstoppable monster to a prisoner in your own home to a seemingly meek and timid girl who seemingly bears no resentment towards the "family" that were keeping her imprisoned for so long? Just how did the girl as we know her manage to so firmly establish the reputation that she has in the class? A class that, in addition to her, includes an unapologetic killer and earthquake-causing brat whose body is actually toxic to a good chunk of the rest of the student body?


That said, you provide excellent points regarding Patchouli's character, especially as it pertains to her relationship with our protagonist. However, to someone who isn't inclined to pursue her as a love interest already, many of those reasons could just as easily used in support of maintaining a close friendship with Patchy, something we kinda already have and something I can't imagine anyone on any side would argue against continuing.

Besides that, while Patchouli's personality does compliment Jin's rather well, something similar can be said for her relations with some of the other characters as well. The few interactions between her and Keine we've seen, or the more recent scene involving her, Reimu, Alice, and Marisa all together at the table, for example. There are bound to be plenty of interesting and entertaining things to be seen from her, but they don't necessarily have to be dependent on being romantically involved with her.

Same deal with Flandre. Even if Jin and her don't become boyfriend and girlfriend, I'm sure there will be plenty of opportunities to learn more about her past, see her interactions with others improve, and occasionally get a good whiff of the bubbling cauldron of crazy she has hidden deep inside.

Romance might add a new dimension for either character, but it's not the be-all and end-all of the story. As important as both characters are in the protagonist's life, regardless of whether he chooses one or the other or neither, neither of them are going anywhere, and they will still be able to have a close relationship with him, even if it's just as a best friend and classmate/mentor.

Besides, Remilia is the one we should be going for, anyway.

196 .

Romance might add a new dimension for either character, but it's not the be-all and end-all of the story.
Yeah, with the real plot starting sometime soon if Taisa doesn't give up in a fit of frustration.

As far as Patchy goes, if it wasn't for Flan, there'd be a great chance that I'd be perusing Patchy if the story flowed the same way as it has. (Otherwise I'd have tried going after Keine) In fact seeing a Keine moment is slightly painful due to the fact that the soonest she'd get her moment in the sun is GH Run 2 at the rate of things. This leads me to galvanize my resolve towards a Flan route more as to make passing up Keine worth it.

And helping a character grow and getting though their problem is a VN cliche, something that GH has no lack of at the moment. I like the whole first love thing, since this story is learning experience for both. It's like I'm really playing Clannad!

As important as both characters are in the protagonist's life, regardless of whether he chooses one or the other or neither, neither of them are going anywhere, and they will still be able to have a close relationship with him, even if it's just as a best friend and classmate/mentor.
Try telling that to some people who want to screw over one of them so their favorite wins. Never mind the fact that breaking Flandre's heart horrifically will not end well for Jin and Gensokyo.

197 .

We need to find a way to put these shitstorms to an end before Taisa gives up, has his depression affect his writing badly like a certain someone, etc.

All the fighting has adversely affected Taisa and others' opinion of this story.

This fighting is getting us nowhere, and our arguments aren't even persuading the neutrals. I know this is an insane futile action, considering how goddamn stubborn people on both sides are. Me? I'm a Flandre fan, but I'd rather see the fighting stop so Taisa can proceed into the real plot of the story, which we might not get or it might get twisted due to all the GODDAMN FIGHTING

198 .

>>200
We need to find a way to put these shitstorms
As if that were at all possible.
Anything less than a routelock will have no effect on stopping the shitstorms.

199 .

>>200

Okay, this is what I was talking about when I said that there are more people bitching about shitstorms than there are actual shitstorms. You just came out of nowhere shouting your head off about shitstorms, but there aren't any happening right now. There was a minor disagreement over how to speak to Flan that ended days ago, there was a little discussion about an earlier plot point, and right now there was nothing more than minor discussion.

If you really want shitstorms to stop, then stop bringing them up at every god damn turn even when they aren't happening. You're just making the problem look worse than it already is.

200 .

>>201

Anything less than a routelock will have no effect on stopping the shitstorms.
This is the absolute long term solution to them, problem is Taisa's reluctant to do just that.

>>202

Have you talked to Taisa recently? I have and he said, "I do not want to be associated with that abomination of a story", referring to GH. You know what happens when someone continues to write on a story while depressed and the story itself makes it worse?

And I'm doing it in the right place; not in the story thread. This thread was made for this purpose so this doesn't muck up his thread.

201 .

he said, "I do not want to be associated with that abomination of a story", referring to GH And once again Anon showed us why we can't have nice things.
Is this the part now where we say thank you for writing and wish him good luck? Probably.
I for once would like to finally get a Q&A session rolling, there are many things that i would like to ask.

202 .

>>203

I am well aware of what happens, however you are simply not helping by doing this. Being hysterical about this is just another way to set people off, and start the polarized idiots who start the major storms off on a round of the blame game. More than that, by bringing up shitstorms when they aren't even happening, you're just reinforcing the association of this story with said shitstorms. It especially isn't helpful when, recently, there have been fewer shitstorms.

The only thing that will ever help is if Taisa himself sets out an ultimatum in front of all his readers. Not a general complaint about them, not a request for them to stop, not a suggestion that they stop, but an outright demand that they stop.

203 .

Before anyone misinterprets a context-less (and not entirely accurate) quote, I was saying that in terms of the future. The discussion was something along the lines of Doktor Q having created a depiction of Rumia that can be treated as reasonably mature, and not just another token loli little sister figure, and then it was said that perhaps in the future I would be remembered as having done the same for Flandre.

I didn't mean to imply that I'm dropping this. I'm writing the next update as we speak, expect it later tonight or sometime tomorrow. What I mean was that I'd rather not be remembered at all, rather than be remembered as 'the guy who wrote that story' when everyone's first thought in regards to 'that story' is how it's infamous for shitstorms and whatnot. It's not particularly encouraging to hear people say how they've dropped the story due to the constant bickering becoming too much to bother with, or new readers complaining how frustrating it is to wade through a bunch of crap to get at a grand total of two* updates in a thread.

I for once would like to finally get a Q&A session rolling, there are many things that i would like to ask. I've always been open to questions, although it was my impression that a formal Q&A session is customary when the story has actually finished. In any case, ask away, I'll see if I can answer.



*(I'll readily admit that this is more my fault for updating slowly for the last month or two.)

204 .

>>205

But non-readers do that already, but I do agree on the ultimatum idea. That might work. But doing nothing was not going to solve the shitstorm problem. Acting like it doesn't exist won't work, not when Taisa just acknowledged its existence.

>>206

Not everyone thinks that way, you still have plenty of fans, even if some of them hate each other. What you'd be more remembered for is Touhouvania, just as some recognize Patchwork for his "Working for the Weekend" story more than HLA.

As far as a suggestion as to at least lessen said storms, call votes sooner as opposed to leaving it go on for a couple days. Two days is more than enough time for debate to devolve into shit.

But I have a question: Are your plans for the real plot still on track? It was my fears about the shitstorms' effects on the real plot that had me worried the most.

205 .

>>202
>>205

Certainly make me feel shitty. And wonder why I take the time to write >>194 >>195 when it gets ignored by people determined to be unhappy no matter the circumstances within one or two posts.

Feels bad, man. Opinions about characters and actions in the story are one thing, but just needlessly bringing up things that serve no constructive purpose and only serve to inflame is just insulting to all parties. The fact that these threads were made to contain overflow, does not necessarily mean we have to use them to shitstorm or fill them with garbage.

Once again, I comfort myself with the hope that it can't be more than a handful of particularly disgruntled anons stirring up trouble either for the hell of it or to serve some misguided purpose.

206 .

>>208

In the interest of possibly getting some relevant discussion going: There was some interesting discussion going on earlier in the thread regarding what the fuck really happened with that mysterious handjob we received.

You open your eyes and look to the side, only for your gaze to meet a pair of bright red eyes staring right back at you, shock blatantly evident within them; and then, before your still sleep-addled sight can even identify the face the eyes belong to within the darkness of the room, all goes black, to the sound of a quiet splatter
Protagonist's viewpoint shortly before being horribly killed.

>>186
>>187
>>188

What are your thoughts on this, folks?

Additionally...anyone given thought to what we can hope to expect from the PLOT when shit hits the fan in the story? We've been getting hints dropped almost from day one, but has anyone really made any attempt to put the pieces together? It's certainly what's eating at me most about this story right now.

207 .

>>209
From what I gathered; I think the real plot relates to the book, the heat wave, and the youkai signature that Reimu keeps on picking up whenever Jin fights someone. Once it starts I'm sure we'll see a much bigger picture.

Who has bright red eyes again? Koa's a maybe, but Remilia, Flandre, and Rumia are definite red-eyes, not sure if anything is particularly brighter than the other.

>>208
My previous posts aimed to find resolution to the problem, not bring up shit. Whoever did those two posts is of the thinking "it's not there if we don't talk about it" Talking about it won't bring up shitstorms as much as choices or results rubbing folks the wrong way and people generally stirring up shit like the power of 202 and 205 did.

Once again, I comfort myself with the hope that it can't be more than a handful of particularly disgruntled anons stirring up trouble either for the hell of it or to serve some misguided purpose.
Smells like trolls to me, since most anons that dislike the story avoid it because of the shitstorms, not go in it to cause more. One in particular stands out.

>>197
I wished more Patchouli fans would be more reasonable like yourself. If that was the case I'd take a lost to Patchouli easier.

Losing fair and square I would have no problem with. A factor that irks Flan fans is the fact some people choose to fight dirty. I'm not purely implicating Patchy fans in this, since there's trolls who want to see this story ruined, with one wanting Taisa to work on THV alone.

Perhaps the first step to ending them is weeding them out

208 .

From what I gathered; I think the real plot relates to the book, the heat wave, and the youkai signature that Reimu keeps on picking up whenever Jin fights someone. inb4 red herring.

209 .

>>210

Ah, whoops. I was unclear in >>208. I was not lamenting >>202 nor >>205 and agree with many of the sentiments. While not bringing up anything controversial obviously isn't a viable solution, I also believe that trying to reduce the amount of posts focused on the things like 'route-locking' and 'Flandre > Patchouli'; and visa versa. Nothing wrong with stating what appeals to you about a particular character. Both >>197 and >>198 are civil, specific, opinion based, and pretty much exactly the way most if not all should be. We probably all know how fruitless and ineffectual X Character > Y Character arguments can be from grade school. Apologies for the misunderstanding, it was my fault for being vague.

That said:

youkai signature
the book
the heat wave
I'm interested to see just how things fit together; one of my favorite parts of reading CYOAs and literature in general. I particularly want to see how the protagonist figures in. He's supposed to be the Perfectly Ordinary High School Student (or WAS) , and yet here he is crushing things with his mind. What I want to know is: Are Jin's innate/repressed abilities surfacing solely as a result of reading the book, or did they exist in some form to begin with? If the second option, this opens up the possibility for a confrontation with Reimu (outside of running her over on the way to class) and for Jin to be the unaware culprit behind the latest 'incident'. Ah well. Mental masturbation.

Who has bright red eyes again?
I pushed a few ideas around in >>188 but it's a dead end after that. Maybe we'll just have to wait and ask. Question is: Ask who?

210 .

>>197
Upon thinking about it, there one more point I would like to respond to.

I don't see her as that much of a complement to Jin, either. She likes to read, which is nice, but everything else she does tends to be initiated by others.
Actually, I think there are a number of ways that Flandre compliments Jin, but unlike with Patchouli, they tend to be ways that the two run parallel to each other. If Jin and Patchouli compliment each other by virtue of their differences, I think he and Flandre compliment each other with their similarities.

For instance, Flandre and Jin are, in their own ways, both dealing with adapting to a world that is unlike what they have experienced for much of their lives, and trying to find their place in an environment that is at best indifferent, and at worst downright hostile.

Flandre, of course, is having to try to adapt to being in a social setting after centuries of isolation, and has the baggage of her mental problems, destructive potential, and the resulting fear and stigma everyone else has towards her because of them. Likewise, Jin finds himself having to adapt to living in a land of magic and mysticism after living most of his life in a world where such things were pure fantasy, and has to deal with the problems that go along with suddenly being at the bottom of the food chain in a place where some of his own classmates would love to have him for dinner, in the most literal way possible.

While their backgrounds are as different as can be, their shared circumstances gives them a point of connection that's more or less exclusive to them in that setting.

The two of them also share a rather unique connection in regards to Flandre's destructive abilities, and Jin's own budding powers of "make things go BOOM". Coming to terms with wielding such a dreadful power as Flandre's couldn't be easy, and what better way to appreciate that than to experience something like them yourself? Hell, he's still barely graduated from magical skeet-shooting in the library, yet Jin's already had his thoughts turn to things like god-hood because of it.
Two weeks in, and already getting a hint of megalomania?
The big difference between them, of course, being that Jin has guidance, whereas Flandre may have not. If left to develop completely on his own (assuming it were even possible) I have to wonder if Jin's mind wouldn't wind up going down a road that Flandre's may have gone before.

"As you are, so I once was. As I am, so shall you be."

When it comes to these powers, I think Flandre and Jin are like two sides of the same coin. On Flandre's side, the fate that awaits should one seek to gain power without the wisdom to go along with it; a broken mind, and an existence where you're a hazard to everyone, everything, and even yourself. On Jin's side, the opposite; the potential one could achieve with the right balance of power and wisdom.
Each side, an example in and of themselves, but also providing something valuable to the other side. To Jin, a warning more effective than anything Patchouli or anyone else could give to him. For Flandre, a sign of hope, and the chance that even she might still be saved.

Who better to understand what you're going through than someone who has either been there themselves or who is going where you, yourself, have once been?

Besides all that, their very natures work to help them mesh together well, I think. Flandre's past and reputation make it difficult to get close to anyone because of the stigma surrounding her, while Jin's initial ignorance of the true nature of just about everything there rendered him pretty much immune to that stigma. Throw in his generally accepting and understanding personality, and once he knew the truth such things aren't nearly as much an issue with him as they are with just about everyone else.

I'll admit, it's not quite as nice as the "opposites attract" dynamic between Jin and Patchy, but the point is there are far deeper connections in the relationship between Jin and Flandre than a mere mutual fondness for reading.
Though, speaking of shared hobbies, I wonder what might happen if Jin were to help Flan get involved in art...

211 .

And then Rumia was forgotten. Isn't it sad, Rumia?

212 .

>>213

I enjoyed reading this. Thank you.

213 .

>>213

Nice Post.

>>214

Thanks for reminding me; I think if we're really going to have Flandre and Rumia become friends without it majorly backfiring, we'd need Cirno's help, since she has befriended both. Sure Rumia grew kinda distant from them due to her obsession with Jin, but I think that kind of a bridge could be mended now. It's not that anyone as forgotten her, just that most are considering her for the little sister role in this.

214 .

And then Rumia was forgotten. Isn't it sad, Rumia? Oh, I can think of things to say about our dear little sister-figure, too.

Where Jin works with Patchy on account of their opposing natures, and with Flandre on account of their shared circumstances, the ways in which he clicks with Rumia falls somewhere between those two.

Both Rumia and Jin have essentially had their respective views of the world, their roles within it, and even their very understanding of what is "right" or "wrong" for them challenged, and have been forced to reexamine what it means to be who and what they are, and how they figure into this world that has suddenly been revealed to be so different from how they've been conditioned.

What makes it all that much more interesting is the they are both the main reason that the other is faced with this situation in the first place. While Patchy might be able to explain and lecture to Jin about the nature of Gensokyo and its inhabitants, and the school might be trying to teach Rumia and those like her to live in a way that doesn't involve killing the very people you're supposed to be living with, it's their interactions with each other that have truly hammered those points home, and have forced them to actually deal with them.

Oddly enough, while they are the primary cause of each other's respective issues, at the same time they are also quite possibly each other's best hope for resolving them. While Flandre was still appearing as a perfect little angel, and everyone else has been trying to keep Jin in the dark, his interactions with Rumia have perhaps allowed him to come to grips with his situation and adapt to living in a land of magical duels and little girls with the strength of bears and appetites for human flesh better than anything else could have.
On Rumia's end, her having to deal with a human who regarded her with neither the fear she desired nor the hatred and hostility she had grown up with, not to mention the kindness from his host family, have (hopefully) helped her see the possibilities of the sort of world the school is attempting to prepare her for, and with continued exposure might even help her to accept it.

Regardless of what role she might go on to play in this story, one thing I would like to see from her would be something like a reversal of how she was at the beginning of the story, preying on someone weaker than her, and instead standing up for someone (possibly even Jin) in the face of someone or something stronger than her. It would be a fine example of her growth, I think.

215 .

>>217

I think the real plot might touch upon the matter of Rumia's mother and why she left Rumia flounder about alone. When said mother is HEAVILY implied to be Yukari, who's living the easy life with Ran and Chen. If this is the case, we might see Rumia lashing at Chen sometime just due to the matter of how Yukari gives Chen indirectly a nice warm home when Rumia has to tough it out. We might see Jin end up giving Yukari a hell of speech on leaving her own daughter alone, or worse yet, forgetting about her. It's obvious that her mother is a major factor behind her attitude about things even in contrast to other young youkai.

216 .

SO hey in wanting to not sage bomb the latest thread, Is it really such a bad idea to, at the very least, offer sleeping beside Flandre? I would imagine that while keeping the option open, it would make Flandre seriously think about her actions as well as perhaps wanting to over come her personal issues such as "sleep-feeding" upon him among other things.

Heck that little chess game she had been playing already confirmed her views on things. The way I interpreted it is that Jin (The White King Piece) is technically surrounded by all forms of danger, including Flandre her self in regards to her control on her emotional outbursts. At the same time though, the part that Flandre wishes to overcome her personal issues (The White Queen Piece) is trying to reach Jin without being overwhelmed by other factors; Remilia's Charm, Patchouli taking a lot of his free time, Koakuma possibly killing him unintentionally, Rumia, the school and the rest of its attendees...

If Flandre takes this opportunity to prove to herself that she can overcome her biting Jin in her sleep, and succeeds, she may see it as a sort of hope in reaching Jin in a matter than keeps him alive and out of trouble at the very least.

At the same time, if she fails then of course shit will not only hit the fan but disintegrate into a fine, foul, black powder.

Then again, she may very well turn down Jin's offers (if the option wins) and bid him goodnight anyways. For Jin to show great bravery and trust in Flandre must mean something to Flandre herself in a way.

Any one feeling this way of thinking is unreasonable, or naive?

217 .

Nope, writefags complain about anon being timid, but there's none of that here. Hell it's a risk, but sometimes you've gotta take them win big. And the main guy speaking the loudest against it is most likely Patchfag Prime; someone infamous for not listening and being one of the key roots of shit storms.

218 .

If worse comes to worst, I'll change my vote. But she has to know that we remember and we don't care. The last time they slept togheter (In Keine's house, I think) he was able to hide the biting. He can do so again, I think.

219 .

>>219

Definitely naive. The big problem is that making the offer to sleep with her if she wants means that there is no way out without appearing to be an ass if she does take you up on the offer, and whether or not she will want to share a bed right now is extremely unpredictable. As I mentioned in the other thread, the odds that she will bite you if you share a bed with her are looking damn high, especially because after the first time it happened she was horrified enough that she would likely never want it to happen again... and yet it did the very next time we crawled in bed with her. She may not even be conscious when she does it, which just tilts the odds against you even further.

Furthermore, what you stand to gain by taking this large risk of being bitten is minimal at best: if you succeed, she may feel just a little bit better, an outcome that can be achieved by doing any number of things that don't require such a wildly dangerous course of action.

What will happen if you get us bitten? Well, it should be obvious at this point. First of all, after her recent emotional turmoil Flandre is going to freak if we wind up in the same condition we did the first time she bit us. We barely prevented this on the second occasion by hiding the evidence of it happening from her, and that required the easy access we had to bandages, running water, etc.; this time we have none of that, because we would be trapped in the basement, with a good chance of being seen if we left the room. If Remilia finds out that we were bitten, she won't just be furious with Flan, she's going to be furious with us for putting both ourselves and Flan in danger, for hiding all this from her, for directly disobeying her orders regarding her own house... Odds are good that she will reduce us to a red smear for it considering how explosively she has reacted to lesser potential problems.

Hide it from Remi, you say? Fat chance. Last time we needed help from both Patchy and Sakuya to accomplish that, and the chances of them being willing to help this time are horrendously low considering that getting bitten would demonstrate heinous disregard for how much they busted their asses trying to help us last time. Hell, getting bitten a third time seems like a great way to flat out destroy our relationships with both of them completely.

You need to seriously weigh the potential consequences of things like this, because even though there is something to be said for taking risks, taking risks this badly stacked against you is foolish, especially when the reward is something so small.

If you really want to spend some time with Flan tonight, then just offer to stay with her for a while before bed, or play with her, or something. If you want to try improving her mood, then just remind her to get rested so that she can enjoy spending tomorrow with Jin, and be patient; you have all day tomorrow to hang out with her, and to cheer her up. These have a chance of accomplishing just as much as the offer to sleep with her, but don't carry the same massive risks. You don't even need to risk going into the basement for these, which means even fewer potential problems with Remilia.

All I want is for you guys to seriously think this through. There is a great difference between being optimistic, and being foolish.

220 .

I will agree with you on Jin practucally having a very shit poor chance in hiding any bite wounds from Remilia the next day, unless Jin by sheer luck manages to find flesh colored bandages/bandaid that matches his skin tone.

Not likely but hell, stranger things have happened.

I will say I feel you're underestimating the impact of Flandre realizing she can actually be with some one without harming them, even doing something as intimate as merely sleeping next to the person. I can see it having a huge impact considering for the most part how isolated she had been and she knows of her strength in comparison to a human's, or Jin's at least.

Hell she must know if she can scare some one like Rumia very easily. If anything this could be the breakthrough or important start for Flandre's need in finding answers to her difficult questions and problems as represented by that metaphorical chess game.

221 .

>>220

The arrogance here is overwhelming.

All I have done is put forth a serious concern with the current leading choice of action. A concern which, I notice, you haven't addressed in any satisfactory way. The fact that you immediately try to sling mud at members of a faction of readers other than yours speaks volumes about who is really the one more likely to be inciting shitstorms. That kind of vitriol has no place here, and if you really are concerned about shitstorms, I suggest you cut the crap. If you disagree with me, then attack my points using something of substance, but don't just throw ad hominems at me and act like you're the better man.

Furthermore, just for the sake of full disclosure, I'll come out and admit something: I am a Patchouli fan. That said, you may notice a distinct lack of voting to go see Patchouli, because, believe it or not, I'm stupid enough to let this constant "routes" crap drive my every vote. I would actually like to maintain good relations with everyone in the mansion, even Flandre, and to that end I don't want to see Jin taking needless risks for minuscule rewards that can be obtained by taking much safer courses of action.

Now, are you going to say anything of value, or are you just going to start attacking my character preference, regardless of how irrelevant it may be?

222 .

>>223

I can admit that it may have a strong impact on her, but tell me: does that impact depend entirely on us sleeping with her tonight? I have no problem with us doing it regularly, and I had no problem voting for it on the previous two occasions, but right now is just not the time to risk it.

If this could have such a dramatic impact on her, there are two ways I could see it going down: either 1) there would be a clear difference in her after the very first time we opted to sleep with her, which obviously didn't happen, or 2) there would be a difference that came with time as we slept with her on a regular basis. I think the second seems more likely at this point, and let's face it: there's no reason we can't start doing that tomorrow night, and there's no need to do it every night, so there is no need to do it right on this night.

Can we at least agree, then, to put it off one night, until we're safely past the point where getting bitten in the night could royally fuck us over?

223 .

>>225

You may have one anon seeing eye to eye with you in regards to the option [x]sleeping besides Flandre, as being postponed reasonably, however most see the option as a possibility rather than a demand. Unless the rest of the readers can see it's perfectly reasonable to postponing it, it may not even matter in the end. Heck as it's been mentioned before, there's a good chance that Flandre may even see the same thing you're saying and postpone sleeping with Jin for now.

Also, slightly off topic, I have to say I'm glad to see anon taking those high risks as I remember they used to back in the early days of TH-P. Aside from making silly/incredibly stupid mistakes, GH, for the most part is about having fun with the concept. The incident with trying to have Rumia and Flandre in the same room without even preparing one another for such an event with little to no planning, especially when it was known Flandre would make a quick visit, imo was really stupid .

What's done is done though and all we can do is simply try to have fun taking risks while grazing by the really bad ones.

Also lets try avoiding attacking one another anons. Even if that anon is easily, or not, identifiable lets at least take note at the points being made; regardless if they disagreed with your thoughts or not.

224 .

>>26

The problem is that there's no reason to risk the possibility, as I just pointed out. There's an unpredictable chance that Flan won't see the same issues I brought up, ask Jin to sleep with her, and quite predictably end up biting him. If the major benefits can stand to be postponed a night, and the minor benefits can be achieved through other actions, then taking the enormous risks involved in sharing a bed with her immediately is completely irrational.

I agree that it's nice to see Anonymous being more willing to take risks, but in a character-driven story like this, I would like to see them be a little more discerning about which risks are worth taking. Taking risks for the sake of it isn't admirable, especially when the potential rewards can be more easily obtained in some other way, or are far too small in proportion to the risks.

225 .

>ba01a1
There you go again, taking the 'good of the story' stance when it suits you best yet again. And I've noticed a trend in someone NOT listening really to the counter points. Besides the trolls, THAT PERSON is the biggest cause of shitstorms just due to their inability to listen. When I posted my questions about pride and solutions to the shitstorms, I couldn't care less about who wins. Hearing your self-righteous prattle irritates me badly. Imagine how other fans hearing it would feel. You are the ultimate definition of a "Vocal Minority"

Voting for Patchy would have been a massive red flag as to your leanings, and would have started a small shitstorm. I must at least commend you for that.

I voted for "making an offer" sub option for one reason: As to give Flan the choice instead of forcing one on her. That's been a slight issue with Flan: Choices. I remembered that one day with Flan where we assumed something, not giving her a choice. This should make her think of her actions.

226 .

>>228

Alright, what the hell is your damage?

When the hell did I say a damn thing about the so-called "good of the story?" The only thing I have been talking about is the fact that I think the current leading option is irrational, and why I feel that way. I was openly inviting people to disagree with me by posting, and, in case you haven't noticed, I actually conceded some of their points. Where do you get off telling me that I'm not listening to counter-points in the face of that?

My only digression from that was a brief statement that you shouldn't be immediately throwing accusations of being x person you dislike at someone just because they have an opinion contrary to yours. It's not just disrespectful to the opposition, but it's inflammatory, and doesn't accomplish anything because of how dismissive it is. I asked you to focus on my concerns, and not just make attacks on my character. Your response?

You just accused me of a small slew of things, being self-righteous and petty among them, and that's on top of your original unprovoked accusation that I was x unreasonable person, who therefore should not be listened to or considered at all. Then you had the gall to ask me to consider how other people might feel.

Can you see how that treatment might just upset some people?

Putting that aside, because I would rather this not devolve entirely into character attacks, I still have to question at least part of your vote. If you really want to give Flan choices, why are you using leading questions with her, especially when she might not even think of that risky offer all on her own? If we have screwed up with her by making assumptions before, then why assume that sharing a bed with her is the first thing she might want? Why not instead simply ask if there was anything she wanted from us tonight in general, make no suggestions, and possibly get straight out of her something that would please her even more? Give her a broader choice, and let her pick anything, instead of limiting it to "share a bed," or "read a book."

227 .

>>229

Well it's up to her to choose, and at this time of night, there's not much else to do. I'm sure Taisa will hash things out well, after all he is a good writer.

And it's not that you're a Patchy fan that I have trouble with, but your general fashion. And if you're not opportunistically taking the high road whenever it goes against a pro-Flandre choice, those has to be some of the biggest sequential coincidences I've seen.

As far as the rest of the argument, it basically boil down: Take a gamble or not. Since neither of us can be certain of anything in this case; which in a way makes our arguements moot, since it's a "Go with your heart" choice.

228 .

>>229

I've seen the vote, and you're fearful of going into her room for a period of time yet eager to go into Remilia's room where she may attempt to seduce us, which in turn might be equally disastrous. After all who to say Flan won't wake up and check in on her sister. Yeah Flandre finding the guy she likes in bed with her ever so popular sister won't end well. Who to say the mutiny wasn't a result of her feeling that Remilia got everything instead of her? These are assumptions.

Yeah I don't know for sure, it's just one of MANY unknowns. All we're both doing is making assumptions left and right. Hence my remark about people going with their guts/hearts: Because we can't be certain about anything, rendering any arguements we both have moot.

229 .

As much as I like Flandre, and would be all for offering to sleep with her again in any other circumstance than one where we're supposed to be minimizing our odds of accidentally upsetting Remilia before we have a chance to intentionally upset her, need I remind you that Flan's sleep-biting isn't just some little problem like grinding her teeth or snoring. It's an instinct, an integral part of what she is, and something she's only had to actually deal with very recently.

The first time she bit Jin, she was apparently awake enough to know what she was doing, but did not understand what she was doing or why. All she knew was that she was hurting Jin, and that she liked it, which likely made the experience all the more upsetting to her.
The second time, she wasn't even really awake, and as far as we know she still doesn't even know about it.

To her credit, she probably was resisting her instincts when Jin met up with her right after Rumia bit him after school, but then again she was fully awake and conscious, and thus would naturally be more in control of her actions.

Still, while I don't doubt Flandre can and eventually will be able to safely sleep with the guy she likes without having to worry about him waking up with a perforated neck, I have to question whether this is really the best time and place for attempting such a thing.

Just consider our overall situation. When he started the day, Jin's only real problem was confessing to Remilia, and yet somehow his problems grew over the course of the morning, and as a result much of his day as been spent dealing with them. It's pretty much a given that tomorrow will be no less eventful. Taking on the risks associated with being down in Flandre's room and sleeping with her, especially considering how the last two attempts at that have gone, might just be adding more to a pile that has shown itself to be more than capable of increasing in size all by itself.


That said, if you really want to take on the risk of being thrice bitten, then I propose that you attempt it in a venue other than the one place you were expressly forbidden by Remilia to be in.
To be more specific, I would suggest that rather than offer to sleep with her in her room, you try offering to let her sleep with you in your room.

No matter how innocent the scene might actually be, if you're found in Flandre's room you will be in trouble. If it isn't Remilia, then you can bet at least Sakuya will probably be less than pleased.

On the other hand, while there is still bound to potential problems with Jin and Flandre simply sleeping in the same room, at least Jin's room doesn't have the additional problem of you being in trouble by default simply because you aren't supposed to be there to begin with. Just so long as you avoid any potentially compromising or questionable situations, there are enough perfectly innocent and honest reasons for why the two of you were sleeping in the same room that there should not be nearly as big of a blowout if even Remilia discovers the two of you there.

Say the two of you were just laying on your bed reading a book together, and Flandre fell asleep there. You certainly wouldn't disturb her, and there was no way you could carry her to her room, so of course you would let her stay there. Depending on how she fell asleep, perhaps you couldn't even move for fear of waking her, and so simply went to sleep yourself. Or, if you could get out of bed without disturbing her, perhaps you could do the gentlemanly thing and sleep on the floor or in a chair.

Of course, even that might be a problem for someone as overreaction-prone as Remi has shown herself to be in regards to her sister.

230 .

>>231

... I'm not voting to go into Remilia's room and sleep there, or passionately make love to her. I'm voting to swing by and tell her good night just as she asked us to. Given that Remi has previously demonstrated a great deal of concern over Flan's feelings, and given how flustered Remilia has gotten when discussing sexual matters before, do you honestly think that she will completely disregard her sister's potential feelings in favor of a wild night of passion? Honestly?

Come on, man. Be realistic. You may not share all my concerns, and that's fine, but you have to admit that they have a bit more grounding than that.

231 .

>>233

Of course it's a silly notion at heart, but I can't get it out of my head, and if what you suggested (the same old thing happening for the third time), then so can this. Perhaps not the whole Flandre walking in on it. And has Jin proven himself
This is something straight out of a VN. Progressing on a girl's route only to be confronted by the sister that you didn't go after. It's like the Kyou route, but the less confident girl is in the true lead/Kyou role, with Remilia

And have you forgotten the tendency of certain votes to take on unholy lives of their own? Take the training with Patchy- WHOOSH there goes most of the day.

But why are we even arguing since there's no point persuading anyone in terms of this vote due to the mindboggling amount of uncertainties in it.

232 .

Given that Remi has previously demonstrated a great deal of concern over Flan's feelings, and given how flustered Remilia has gotten when discussing sexual matters before, do you honestly think that she will completely disregard her sister's potential feelings in favor of a wild night of passion? Honestly?
Plus, let's not forget how, despite her clear enjoyment of the playful flirting she and Jin engaged in, Remilia's tone of voice became noticeably more serious at the suggestion of a private dinner together, and even expressed uncertainty about the idea.

Though that could be due to any number of other reasons, I would be surprised if Flandre didn't figure into the equation.

233 .

>>235

Yeah... still I think that was a case of taking the flirting a bit too over the line. And I hope it was accidental in intent.

234 .

>>233
To be fair, she only seems to get flustered about such things when they concern other people (especially her sister), not herself. Or am I wrong?

235 .

>I have to say: If Flandre bites us a third time, and there's no change in how it's executed, I'm going to be fairly disappointed. For a whole number of reasons.
Technically, if Flandre winds up biting Jin on the neck again, it would only really be the second time such an event was executed in that way.

Remember, the second incident saw Jin with a bleeding, open wound on his hand, and it was at the site of that wound that Flandre wound up focusing in. On top of that, she was also not even consciously aware of what she was doing, whereas she was during the first incident.

That said, I find it extremely curious why you would say you would be disappointed if sleeping with Flandre resulted in Jin getting bitten again, since disappointment suggests you were seriously expecting something other than that to happen in spite of the precedent set by the past two times.

Are you familiar at all with the saying of how the very definition of "insanity" is "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"?


Sleeping with vampire, particularly one who has has little-to-no experience in dealing with their instinctual urges, is going to carry a high risk of getting bitten. Say what you will about such an event as a plot device, but it's hardly an unreasonable expectation to have.

The thing about that is....how long are we going to keep her at arms length? We expect her to interact with her peers, to grow emotionally, and yet we purposefully hold ourselves apart? Fear her?
Sorry, but I can't help but think you're blowing things a little out of proportion. You're not holding anyone away from you when they themselves are the ones who have chosen to keep their distance, nor are you doing it by not offering to share a bed with them for the night.

Not that I don't think Flandre could use some serious snuggle time after everything that's happened today, and making the offer might be a good gesture, but to make it sound as if you're intentionally pushing her away by not making that offer, and somehow linking it to her ability to interact with others in a social setting just doesn't make sense to me.


I am not against the idea of sleeping with Flandre, but I can't help but think that the expectations some people have in making that offer are just a tad unrealistic.
Regardless of whatever stance you have on the issue, you're not doing yourself any favors if you're not mindful of potential consequences, and are choosing what you do for the wrong reasons.

236 .

>>238

You seem to be taking this a little too far. I've already said that I have no problem with sharing a bed with Flan, and have voted to do it before; I wouldn't even be opposed to doing it regularly. The only reason I have been advocating putting it off for tonight is because the consequences of being bitten tonight would be particularly catastrophic, and put almost everything we have accomplished at risk. After we let Remi in on our little secret there should be fewer problems with what you want to do - hell, Remi might be glad for us doing it once she actually knows what we are aware of - but right now getting bitten will only serve to infuriate her.

In addition, I have to echo the sentiment of >>239 in regards to your expecting anything other than us being bitten if we climb into Flan's bed again. It really isn't fair to call that the rehashing of a plot development; it's just a consistent aspect of the fictional world. If we establish that x character has a dislike of warm climb, for example, then seeing them become reluctant to do anything every time there is hot weather is to be expected. Likewise, Flan's biting appears to be a completely instinctual, unconscious action, and expecting it to stop suddenly for no particular reason is a little ridiculous.

237 .

>>241

Just so that that I'm not misinterpreted:

I'm asking hypothetical what-if questions that do not necessarily have answers in the here and now, or at all. More than anything, really, I was asking a general question to all the readers: What should and can be done by our protagonist in regards to Flandre's situation?

For example: Will Remilia necessarily be more open and willing to discuss Flandre's past after tomorrow, presuming we don't end up splattered on the carpets?

238 .

>>241

Alright, I think I see where you might have missed our primary concern.

Alright. So say we don't offer to sleep in her room, or accept her offer, because we feel there's a high chance she will bite us. What exactly do you propose we do, then, when she asks us again the next time? Or the next time? Will those occasions not be holding her at arms length, or just this one? Obviously we're both dealing a bit in absolutes, but even if we avoid sleeping with her tonight, we're going to need to confront the issue eventually. If we go about it with the mentality that we should assume she'll do it EACH time, then I really can't see the point in pretending to be this girl's boyfriend any longer. It already feels like we're just yanking her around, the way we act. Remilia's made it clear she feels the same way, at least partially.
I don't think anyone here is saying that being bitten is itself something that needs to be avoided constantly. At any other time being bitten would be inconvenient, but probably something most us would be willing to deal with. We might get criticized for it, but ultimately being willing to risk that for Flan would probably be construed as another of Jin's costly but considerate habits, and most of the characters in the story would be fine with it.

What we are worried about is being bitten right here and now. The success of our scheduled talk with Remilia tomorrow depends on keeping her in a good mood, and consequently reasonable, which she most certainly won't be if she finds us with a bite before we even have the chance to explain ourselves. If she finds us in the room we were explicitly forbidden to enter then it only gets worse. The immediate consequences of being bitten at this are horrendously bad, when the consequences after our reveal to Remilia would be substantially less steep.

tl;dr No one is worried about being bitten in general, we're worried about being bitten at this specific juncture.

239 .

>>243

Yeah, I re-read the posts and see that now. Misread something, and then proceeded to compose a poorly worded response. Twice.

Ah well, some of the questions were valid, but I don't feel like trying to make sense of that mess. Derp.

240 .

A reminder about tomorrow: We did promise to spend some time with Flan tomorrow regardless of how this goes (hopefully even if the second vote wins, things won't get screwed up to hell), Before the big reveal, it's the matter of spending time with Flan. I hope people do not forget that, or try to play "Remilia romancan- I mean buttering up for later" games. There are some people that would try that stuff, mainly the trolls. (No I'm not accusing ba01a1 here)

241 .

Actually, I would recommend we not take getting bitten by Flandre too lightly, even after we clear things up with Remilia.
Remember, Jin isn't the only one who stands to be negatively affected by Flandre biting him again, be it now or in the future. Flandre, herself, stands to find herself in a world of trouble if it's discovered she's bitten someone.

Remember, just that last biting incident was enough for Eirin to call into question Flandre's stability and want to examine her to be sure she isn't going to pose a danger to someone down the road, and she was already on thin ice with Keine from when she nearly went megaton on Rumia that first day.

Helping Flandre adapt to being around others and socializing does not just mean getting her to open up to others, it means getting others to not think of her as a walking time-bomb. Suffice to say, anything that could be perceived as a warning sign, such as biting people in her sleep, would not help that goal any.

Of course, play your cards right, and perhaps you won't even need to worry about explaining away those strange marks on your neck. After all, who's to say what a vampire hickey should or should not look like?

242 .

I think that'd be a thing to do on our list is to get Remilia to reveal to Flandre what vampires normally do, since it's been said in canon that Flan has no idea her food is made with blood. In GH this goes thricefold.

243 .

I hope people do not try to play "Remilia romancan- I mean buttering up for later" games.
Wasn't that one of our main goals for the weekend?

244 .

So, let me see if I just read the last 50 posts correctly:

-Going to Remilias' room to say goodbye will only be the MC fulfilling a promise because Remilia cares too much about her sister to do anything else.
-Sleeping with Flandre may be dangerous, but will make her feel accepted (We were able to hide it from her on Mokou's, will be able to do so again?)
-Tomorrow we will spend the day with Flandre until the time for the big reveal (When?) comes.

As for my personal, far-fetched theories: Remilia has the hots for Reimu, and will use the 'goodnight' thing to have a mano a mano with Jin about Flandre. Patchouli would become our MC's lover if he insists, and Flandre likes Jin very much.

245 .

>>248

Buttering her up some yes, but no romancing.

>>250
It's a terrible pile of what ifs to be honest. But interesting theory.

246 .

Remilia has the hots for Reimu, and will use the 'goodnight' thing to have a mano a mano with Jin about Flandre.
While I don't know about Remilia's feelings about Reimu, I'd like to think that if she was going to have a talk with Jin about her sister, she'd pick a better venue for it than her own bedroom.

Personally, I like to imagine her taking on the role of the stereotypical over-protective, boyfriend-hating father that Hollywood is so fond of using, and have her little chat with Jin while giving him a second tour of her "trophy" room.
Nothing gets the point across of "don't fuck with my little girl" like a friendly reminder that you're capable of tearing through armor with your bare-hands.

247 .

>>252

That'd result in her revealing she's a vampire; something she'd been trying hard to hide.

248 .

>>253
something she'd been trying hard to hide. Let's be honest here for a second: she [i]sucks{/i} at hiding stuff.

249 .

Almost as much as she sucks at naming stuff.

250 .

Yes but she's been trying regardless, trying to pass off the wings as cosplay and such. It's better than Jin's awkward attempts at hiding the truth about himself.

251 .

So how do y'all think Remilia is going to react once she hears the truth?

252 .

depends on how Jin breaks it to her. Part of her will be impressed with how he can deal with them despite knowing their true nature, especially Flandre.

253 .

Yes but she's been trying regardless, trying to pass off the wings as cosplay and such.
Actually, I'm pretty sure Jin was the one who suggested the notion that they were part of a costume, and at one point both Remilia and Flandre actually laugh their assess off him saying that.

Besides that, any doubt about their authenticity pretty much went out the window the second he started touching them while flirting with her this morning.

At first pretending to lean one arm on the back of your chair as you face her, you stealthily move your hand behind Remilia to gently take hold of the end of one of her wings, and wiggle it back and forth a bit before tapping your fingers along it. The reaction is instantaneous - a light twitching of the wing, followed by a short, suppressed gasp from the vampire, her cheeks quickly gaining some color. Despite this, she mostly manages to retain her composure, still smirking at you in that smug, confident manner of hers, eyes fixated on you with a strange expression in them that you can't quite place. Elbow leaning on the table, she rests her head on her hand, covering her mouth as you continue to rub the leathery skin of the wing membranes between the fingers.
A muffled 'pfft' noise escapes her; you're not quite sure whether your little joke managed to fluster her, or if your playing about with her wing is making her feel ticklish (or otherwise..?). Her cheeks are, by now a firm shade of pink, and her eyes slightly narrowed; still, despite her mouth still being concealed behind her fingers, you notice the corners of her lips rising noticeably. In a motion that seems more reflexive than calculated, her wing jerks itself out of your hand, and Remilia exhales with another soft gasp, fixing you with a strange grin. As she opens her mouth to speak, her voice sounds oddly high-pitched for the first few words or so.
It's one thing for her to not notice how her wings move depending on her mood normally, but when someone is actually touching them and she's clearly reacting to it?

Unless she thinks Jin is far more dense and oblivious than we had thought, she would have to at least wonder if he doesn't really know those wings aren't just "fashion accessories", I would think.

254 .

I know of one man who would be dense enough to notice/be fooled by such an explaination: Shirou

255 .

>>260

Oh, come on. Surely Jin couldn't be nearly as bad as tha-
Honestly, it's like the girl has a crush on you and is treating Rumia like a rival or something. And that's just ridiculous.
...well.

Damn.

256 .

You know guys, if we want Taisa to be happy, we should really stop the shitstorms and agree on a common path (and schedule our tasks so no one is left out). Due to the shitstorms, some folks (coughirccough) were giving him shit about it (especially the THV fan/troll who wants Taisa to just work on that). As a result, his depression/emoness is reaching Teruyo levels. Yeah, not good at all FOR ANYONE other than nvg and other trolls.

257 .

Generous Music Anon here and I approve of >>262's post.

258 .

(coughirccough) ಠ_ಠ

259 .

So, uh, where's our writefag?

260 .

>>265

Not writing, playing vidya. But it's better that way until he stops being so depressed. Last thing we need is a repeat of the Eirin Handjob in GH.

261 .

>>266

wasn't that DoaLF?

262 .

>>267

Yep, it was in reference to what Taisa might do in a particular depressed mindset. In GH's case, it'd be say Jin getting his dick ripped off during a handjob. It's been said that Taisa doesn't have much love for this story anymore, so if he gets depressed enough, he might do some crazy things. Seriously, we should try to stop the shitstorming since the one who'd give up soonest is Taisa himself.

263 .

Seriously, we should try to stop the shitstorming since the one who'd give up soonest is Taisa himself.
I wouldn't be surprised. Mostly because I'm almost certain that none of the Instigators and participators bother taking any of it to here, and leave most of it to shit up the story threads. It kind of pisses me off that there were threads created for them so that they would stop bombing the story threads themselves, but none of them bothered to show up. Instead, it seems to have had the opposite effect of actual discussion happening here, and all the unpleasantness staying where it was.

...Still, the last one wasn't so bad. It seemed to be mostly debate over what would be the best course of action, rather than fanwars. Maybe it's slowly getting better? Even if it's only temporary and starts up again full-force, I think Taisa should just tell them to shut up and debate, rather than argue. It's possible that an outright request like that from the author himself might actually get through...Maybe.

264 .

You guys need to chill. There hasn't been a real shitstorm for a fair while now. I've said it before, but moaning about the shitstorms takes up just as much space, and is just just as unproductive as the actual shitstorms. Unless a shitstorm is actually happening then constantly complaining about them is only going to reinforce the association people have made between this story and shitstorms.

Besides, I'd like to think Taisa would come and tell us directly if he were considering dropping this story. You can save your panic until he does that.

265 .

I never said I'd drop it, chill. I'm just rather demoralized right now for various reasons and can't bring myself to write. I'll try to compensate for this somehow whenever it is I do update.

Sorry.

266 .

>>270

And the actual shitstorms that break out won't? Most of such talk is being kept here. And just acting like shitstorms don't exist won't make them go away.

There's also the fact that Taisa received flack indirectly due to how popular GH is. I've seen two such references so far. One a dream scene in That /others/ story. "Let's go!" and other is a remark about how easy it is to have people be interested in flan no matter how well/badly she's written, as a remark in AGLA by a reader. There's also the "Pedo story" remarks in a few places.

267 .

There's also the fact that Taisa received flack indirectly due to how popular GH is. I've seen two such references so far. One a dream scene in That /others/ story. "Let's go!" and other is a remark about how easy it is to have people be interested in flan no matter how well/badly she's written, as a remark in AGLA by a reader.
[citation needed]

268 .

http://www.touhou-project.com/th/res/111633.html#112755 Remark by Anon in AGLA

http://www.touhou-project.com/others/res/24880.html#25248 Dream scence midway through this update; but he's also spoofed Fragment of Memories.

269 .

>>272

I'm not suggesting you act like they don't happen. I'm suggesting that we all deal with them as they come. Just bitching about them isn't going to accomplish anything, especially if they're not actually happening when you complain.

Also, I don't think that a passing friendly reference, a joking meme, and a single slight constitute "flack."

270 .

Writing now.
Expect the update sometime later today this week. Things ought to speed up after that, as I gradually get used to writing again.

Of course, to avoid being too heavily disappointed, let's all keep in mind what my track record is for keeping promises...

271 .

Week is official over.

272 .

Is he coming back?

273 .

I think he is, it might be a while. Question is how are we going to greet him when he DOES come back?

274 .

>>279
Get back to work Nigger.

275 .

What happened?

I debated typing a lengthy statement analyzing the interactions between writer and anonymous voters and the consequences many of the actions of each have on each other, but as that's been done far too many times with little effect, I decided against. That and speaking frankly, it is my opinion that in the previous month anonymous has been more well-behaved and effectively reining in shitstorms than at any previous point in the story. As long as choices are offered to human beings who possess free will, going through different circumstances leading them to arrive at a variety of conclusions, differences of opinion will arise. And, yes, some of us will be more vocal and go to greater lengths than others in attempting to persuade people of their opinions (See: All of Human History). Doesn't mean they're right, but it does mean that asking a diverse group of individuals will result in unpredictable results. Derp, I'm done.

276 .

>>281

..what?

277 .

>>282

not 281, but it made sense to me

278 .

>>281

I was thinking on the release of DS and the meaning of spoiler. GH has a risk of a triple spoiler: Those being Patchouli, Rumia, and Sakuya.

Alone one such factor wouldn't have been a match but combined, well the Flandre position has been weakened enough so the Patchouli faction is a threat, hence the increased severity of the shitstorms for the most part.

What happened in the more recent updates is the matter of just one character being involved with the choices mostly.

A certain irony doesn't escape me in that by voting for that Patchy H-scene earlier (done to see these things: Tossing the Patchy fans a bone, seeing if Taisa would go through with it, and getting Jin some experience) If the scene wasn't so nice, I'd be much more upset about realizing that choice strengthened and enboldened the Patchy fandom. Having said that, if not for Flan yet still on the SDM cluster, I might have fallen in with the Patchy fans.

But the battle boils down to this: Flandre fans who sacrificed much and put in great effort for their cause against Patchouli fans who have various reasons (Genuinely liking her, Dislike of Flan, and the worse of them all, a rather unhealthy zealous moral quest to prevent the 'pedo route') The various events and attitudes shown has taken this beyond a mere route rivalry and into a true war. Also for these reasons, people refuse to give up because there's another story with their preferred route.

So the question is: Will Taisa be greeted by peace or war?

279 .

>>284

It's that kind of thought that creates shitstorms.

280 .

>>285

Pretty much. It's that whole "us versus them versus them" idea that's causing the trouble. I understand preferring a character over the other two, that's fine, we all do.

Maybe I'm not seeing things the way they ought to be seen; when I started reading GH, it was October last year, meaning I missed out on a lot of the arguments posted for certain characters. Because of this, I was reading GH not because it was an interactive story I was creating but because it was an entertaining story that had yet to be finished. Even after I caught up a few months ago (I don't remember when exactly), my goal was just to read; conditions with some of the voters were less than favorable, sure, but the story was still excellent and the quality of the updates were still top notch.

You know, there's an idea. You'll all hate it, but here's an idea: let Taisa write out the rest of the weekend stay, without anymore input from the readers. I think it would be interesting to see him move through a significant chunk of the story going only with the current character development and the very last vote. In the very least, it would allow for him to write a large portion of the story the way he wants to write it, not the way we want it written (it is his story, after all).

I don't know what could come of this, though. Maybe the status quo will remain the same, with Jin still caught up in between 6 or so girls (Remilia, Sakuya, Patchouli, Flandre, Koakuma, Rumia, not including other characters like Keine, Mokou, Eirin, Reisen, Mystia, and Cirno who have been missing for quite a while (and most likely relegated to the friend zone)). Maybe we'll get route-locked. Maybe he'll just fast forward through the rest of the weekend with nothing of significance happening at all. The worst, I think, that could happen is Jin getting our throat ripped out again and us being out of continues.

I'm interested in what you guys think of the idea.

281 .

>>281 here. I second that. I would be legitimately interested in seeing how Taisa would have the big reveal go, among other things. One thing that clearly needs to stop, as it negatively impacts EVERYONE, is the division of voters into camps. Putting aside the aspect of preference, I do think we as voters need to take a look at the story, what our protagonist has done until now and how we've conducted ourselves, and make more decisions based on story continuity as a whole. Otherwise I have a feeling we may end up with an ending nobody is satisfied with. Or no ending at all.

282 .

But what are you going to do about the zealots that insist on there being sides? Since it's the sheer hatred involved that's causing the problems. All I was trying to do was explain the mentality of the zealots.

283 .

>>288

What is there to be done? You can't really force anyone to stop behaving that way (short of preventing them from even accessing the story, but that's like a 2 hour fix at best). All we can really do is make it readily apparent that that kind of behavior will do none of us any good. It's really up to them to stop.

I'd suggest route-locking the story, but are we far enough in that that's an option? Besides that, you then have to deal with people who are so unhappy with the route that they'll do all the can to completely sabotage it.

Urk.

284 .

>>289
But it's hard to say if this is a route lock or if Taisa would even consider it. A route lock provides protection from most such attempts and when a fairly earned Route lock is called, most folks will calm down, leaving a few folks who would be easily nullified. Problems would occur if it was obvious to many that said route lock wasn't fairly earned.

Besides that, you then have to deal with people who are so unhappy with the route that they'll do all the can to completely sabotage it. This would not end well since the other fans will do just that to the route in the next story.

I feel that the worse zealots are the ones considering a Flandre route a 'pedoroute' just due to the type of zeal they show. It's this very same zeal that fueled things like the Library of Alexandria being torched during the crusades and other senseless act. Flandre-aligined zealots have more of a "desperate defense" zeal perhaps caused by the other group.

And if we're to advocate doing things for the best of the story, we need to make a neutral group since some people who might say that appear to mainly do so when it favors a certain cause, making them hard to believe. The second main difficulty is the story's nature: Very high school VN-like, perhaps too much so. It explains the rampant "one or the other" choices, it's the nature of these choices that helped give rise to what we see here.

VNs are single player games with an aim of romancing a girl. When you involve more than one person, the results aren't exactly pretty. Forum topics about animes based on Clannad or general harem animes can attest to that, with various opinions of who the lead should have ended up with. You see where I'm going with this?

I know Taisa has a real more normal CYOA story in the second part of GH, but as far as the first part stands, its nature is being a hindrance without some kind of intervention such as route lock.

285 .

NEW UPDATE NEW UPDATE NEW UPDATE NEW UPDATE NEW UPDATE NEW UPDATE NEW UPDATE NEW UPDATE!

286 .

So far the efforts to reduce shitstorms and routefaggotry have been going very well so far. I think everyone's posting for the good of the story for once, and this is from a Flandre fan.

287 .

>>293

Seconded. More pressure on shitposters to be civil and respectful seems to be paying off.

288 .

But we have yet face the truest challenge: A "____ vs Flandre" choice. As noted in the thread, Flandre's gotten some mixed feelings, no doubt due to bits of interference from people voting nilly willy to do other things, possibly reeking of Route faggotry.

I'm not saying ignoring the music club or such, just making an orderly schedule, not doing things randomly.

289 .

Maybe she's getting mixed feelings because, you know, Anon as a whole has mixed feelings about her?

Either way, I think this particular vote is actually an excellent example of shitstorms calming down. It's a vote to bathe with focus of one of the two major "factions," if you want to call them that, and there haven't been any genuinely volatile posts. That alone is a pretty substantial accomplishment.

290 .

that's what I was talking about, due to various interference votes and such. Most stories have folks settling on a route or at worse just a few remarks at each other. An example would be Fragment of memories during lulls in the main plot. "Having a Shizuha route is nice" "You misspelled Momiji" are the worse you'd hear. Gensokyo futures is a case of anon settling on a target quick: Merlin.

The only stories with truly awful shitstorms was HLA and GH (in the past), something I blame on the cluster nature. Due to the fact that anon basically gets one shot at a cluster, competition will be especially fierce compared with a story that only has say Alice, Marisa and Wriggle for romantic choices. That and the fact that Taisa and Patchwork both write compelling characters.

In those cases, things get particularly hateful with infamous cries of "PEDO!" and "FURFAG!" ring out. But that's just a natural result of the desperate competition getting out of hand from merely supporting their cause to actively trying to ruin the others. The potential result? The author being dispirited.

On the matter of the greater good, upsetting Flan badly would go against that, but so would estranging Patchouli.

291 .

Brother's 16th birthday, back on Monday.

292 .

How are things coming?

293 .

I've had more work lately, including weekends. Upside, more money. Downside, lack of time and energy. I'll try to get something written soonish.

294 .

Singing~
In the rain~

You there Taisa?

295 .

status update please?

296 .

>>/gensokyo/4458

297 .

>>/gensokyo/5138
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