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165724 No. 165724
Thread 21 >>158673
Thread 22 >>160720
Thread 23 >>163582

In which the greater picture is revealed.

[X] “Where's Sakuya?”

“That settles it,” Keine says, breaking the tense silence. “Are you ready to finish this?”

“... what? Just like that?” you ask her. “What happened to all the 'beware the Scarlet Devil' panic from a few days ago?”

She smiles sweetly, reaches out towards you – and pokes you in the chest. You stumble back several steps, an ache growing over your ribcage.

“A few days ago I couldn't do that,” she says. “And a few days ago I...” she flushes with embarrassment. “I didn't respect your skill. It's not all about power, especially with spell-card rules. And if Remilia wants to make it about power...” she tightens her fist, and you see Patchouli and Meiling blanch as her knuckles pop. “That would be a mistake. So... we'll do it your way, this time.”

The hot embrace of your anger evaporates as a nice chilly Guilt front rolls in. “Don't apologize to me,” you grump, annoyed with yourself and Keine and her goddamn – when you finally want an I-Told-You-So, she reverses and - “dammit, Keine, you were right!

She blinks. “But the Society-”

“No!” you cry, smacking your forehead. “Literally from the moment we met you've been trying to tell me I'm outmatched, I'm in over my head, I've gotta be careful, blah blah, and I've just...” emotions are leaping about like Hasted bullfrogs so you grab at the familiar one. “I've been a jerk. I am a jerk! Just get angry with me like everyone else does instead of all this, this goddamn - this!” you conclude, thrusting your palms at Keine to indicate all the offending this.

You're vaguely aware of Patchouli and Meiling staring at you with unbelieving eyes and fuck them too.

Keine frowns thoughtfully for a moment. “Apology accepted,” she says gently.

“What,” you hear yourself say numbly.

“I forgive you,” she clarifies calmly.

You seize your head in both hands before it can blastoff on bottled-up frustration-pressure. “Were you even LISTENING!?” you cry helplessly.

From behind Keine's perfectly serene expression comes a stifled little snerk. You pinch the brim of your hat and pull it down, blinding yourself. It works on horses; maybe it'll work for you. Clash defines your character; you've spent most of your life doing it and doing it well – but Keine doesn't clash. One sentence from her and you end up the one sputtering in confusion. Being the wrench in the works is your shtick, dammit – how the hell is some sweet schoolteacher besting you at it?

Keine appears beneath your hat-brim, stooping to peek at you. “Are you okay?”

“Just a little freaked out,” you mutter.

Keine frowns at you. “Why?”

“I managed to piss off a Gazebo yesterday, Keine. A building. Your serenity is disrupting the natural order of the universe.”

She smiles warmly at you, then reaches out and places a fingertip against your nose. Your aches and pains vanish, and she flips her finger up, tilting your hat back into position. “You know what they say about karma,” Keine says, twirling her hair around one finger. “What goes around, comes around. Maybe this is natural, too.” Her smile's gone, but it's still dancing in her eyes, playful and sweet. You smile back, feeling your face flush. A beautiful realization flowers in your mind, and before you can act it slips out of your mouth, pure and empathetic.

“Fuck. Me. Sideways.

Keine stops breathing, eyes wide and limpid.

“Something's wrong.

Keine's mouth drops open.

“No clash.”

Now she breathes, all the sparkle in her eyes flowing out with her long, gusty exhalation, leaving them cold and hard. “You want a clash?” she asks dangerously.

“What's amiss here?” you say, sweeping your hands wide. “I've spent the last three days snooping around asking questions and people kept trying to beat or kill me for it. I literally can't walk through town without receiving-” you pause to count, “-one assault, one attempted murder and one open threat and that was just today.

“In Gensokyo we call that a good party,” Patchouli says dryly.

“Bitch I call that Tuesday!” you retort. “And now – all the clash is gone. Suddenly everyone thinks my penchant for chaos and violence is just swell. Sure, go duel the vampire, I'll put her in time-out of she cheats! Sure, Mister Wizard Man, go beat the shit out of my boss but don't ask me any questions about her.” Patchouli's mouth tightens a bit. “I've been doing sleuth-y shit for three days now. What does this Ram-You chick do?”

“Reimu!” Keine corrects you irritably. “She-”

“She flies towards the noise and slaps down anyone who stands in her way,” Meiling says, sounding a little bitter, mumbling something about “hakurei hax.”

A familiar, tight pressure builds in your breast as you turn to Keine. “Does she...?”

“I told you about that,” Keine says defensively.

“You said she dealt with troublemakers,” you retort. “An end-of-investigation assbeating is a given, but does she really just fly in the direction of the weird and succeed?”

“Yes,” Keine says.


“... yes,” Keine says in a smaller voice.

“Something doesn't smell right,” you say. “Where's Sakuya?”

“Here,” Sakuya says into your ear.

“HEEERG,” you retort eloquently as you fling yourself sideways and twirl in one motion. Sakuya's standing right behind you. Hips cocked, her pocket-watch dangling from the fist on her hip and a serving tray balanced on her palm, she looks rather smug.

“You called?” she says dryly.

You eyeball her timepiece, absorbing the not-so-subtle threat, then look at her tray. “Is that... coffee?

“For Patchouli.”

You narrow your eyes and state the obvious. “So when you said you'd never heard of it-”

“I was fucking with you,” Sakuya says, relishing the invective.

You cross your arms and tilt your head back, trying not to be amused by that. Patchouli is an arrogant academic; Meiling's a sweet, honest girl, but Sakuya isn't so easy to peg. You recall how her attitude changed after your mead-hall boast at dinner; unlike the others, she didn't doubt your sincerity... and it takes one to know one.

As far as 'common ground' goes it's more like a ledge, but compared to the punch wizard, the stuffy secluded academic and the minivamp, the timespace-manipulating maid is your best bet.

… and that's why you're actively hostile towards big-picture perspective: it's never encouraging.

“What does Flandre eat, Sakuya?”

You can hear Patchouli and Meiling cease respiration somewhere behind you. Sakuya's slate-grey eyes bore into you like a winter gale, painfully cold and piercingly intimate.

Sakuya gently sets the tray down upon a nearby stack of hardcovers, flicking you a contemptuous look that says you damn well know.

You've stared down worse. “How do you collect them, Sakuya? Climb up the tree and lower them down, or do you cut their rope with a thrown knife? You put them a wheelbarrow or drag them back in a tarp, like a deer?” You see Sakuya swallow slightly, but her expression remains glacial. You respect Sakuya; so it's particularly enraging to picture what must be going on in the dark, the deeds everyone else ignores. “You clean them at home, or do you gut them on the spot?”

Sakuya's pale cheeks color with anger, her lips and eyes tightening as she scowls at you.

“Lots of feral youkai out there,” you comment. “Competition. You ever get there early, make sure it's fresh?” Your voice becomes low and hot. “You ever sit there and watch them kick out their last?”

“When people die around me,” Sakuya says, her voice cutting through you like a winter wind, “they die fast.

Aha! You're pissing people off again, so you must be doing something right. “And where does that happen? You slit their throats, or are you just present? How much laundry do you do around here, Sakuya?”

“More than you, I suspect,” she says, glancing at your one and only robe.

“Answer the question!” you snap.

“Or what?” she retorts icily, jerking her pocket-watch upwards and catching the bob barely an inch above the timepiece.

“I'll make you swallow that cl-”

“How does Remilia feed?” Keine interjects.

You and Sakuya both turn to stare at her.

“I know she's a light eater,” Keine says thoughtfully, “but I've never actually heard who she feeds from. The villagers say...” she waves her hand dismissively, “but how is it handled? Volunteers? Bribes?” Keine's expression sours. “Other.... uh... favors...” Keine's mouth crumples just contemplating the idea. “Ugh. Not even a vampire could feed off that.”

Sakuya has the openly horrified expression of someone who's just been trampled by the elephant in the room.

The only thing worse than that? Being trampled by an elephant you didn't even see.[/i [i]Meteor Swarm would have fixed everything. Even metaphysical pachyderms have poor reflexes. Comfort zone, where art thou?

“How does Remilia feed?” you breathe, a cold lump of horrible certainty coalescing in your stomach.

Sakuya closes her eyes. “You can't ask that.”

“You know what kind of man I am,” you declare. It's not a question, but Sakuya nods slightly, eyes still closed. “Then you know I won't stop asking how Remilia feeds...”

Cold, numbing dread slips into your veins, making you tremble slightly under your robes. The possibility of a good person harboring nightmare truth – something so horrible you wish it false with your very soul. Upon this brink Meiling and Patchouli have shied away, but you never have.

And you know what you've found every time you crossed it.

“....and what happens to her snacks after,” you finish quietly.

Sakuya's tenseness leaves with her sad sigh, seeming to deflate before you.

“What...” Keine begins, the beginning of numb horror creeping into her tone. “What happens?”

“Flandre gets them,” you fill in, certainty weighing your words.

Sakuya's crossed arms tighten defensively, and a single tear slips down one pale cheek.

“They're alive when she brings them in,” you say, tasting the idea. Your rage begins building again like pressure in a boiler, climbing inexorable and swift. “They're still alive when Remilia gets them.” You take deep, steady breaths, your teeth grinding together as the pressure swells in your skull, trying to burst from your temples. “Still alive when you bring them in.”

“I DON'T BRING THEM!” Sakuya roars, her eyes snapping open, blazing with anger. “I'm not a murderer! I'm not!

“But you don't stop it, do you?” you snap. Patchouli doesn't care, and Meiling is clueless, but from Sakuya? Sakuya!? “You just stand there holding your limp dick doing nothing!

Sakuya's fierce look of defiance slips a bit. “What?”

“Your dick! Your johnson! Your pizzle! Your waste elimination tube! Your ovipositor! Your heat sink!” You shudder involuntarily at that last one – you really wish you'd never seen Uncanny Valley. “You useless cowardly bitch!

“I'm a woman,” Sakuya offers, completely nonplussed.


She shakes her head sadly. “I can stop time,” Sakuya says, “but not even I can stop this. It... can only be controlled.” A bone-deep resignation flickers behind her deep slate-gray eyes for a moment. “A few die, so the rest may live in peace.”

“How could you?” you say miserably. “How could you?”

“I'm closest to her,” Sakuya replies. “If I don't... who will?”

“Who will do what, exactly?” Keine asks, her knuckles cracking as her hands curl into fists. “Who brings those people to their deaths, if you don't? WHO!?”


You always liked Remilia for the culprit, from moment one – she rang your alarm bells on multiple levels, from instinctive to intellectual. Most of your 'investigations' were to establish when, where, why and how – the who was a pretty short list from the start. “Who” isn't a question you've truly asked of anyone or anything for a few days now.

But with Remilia nearly in hand... you think about it.

Devils or their minions running wild, hunting humans, would not be tolerated.

Who wouldn't tolerate it? Yuyuko didn't say.

Or Patchouli, just minutes ago: You can't. Even Remilia was brought to heel!

By who?

People are emotional creatures, Mokou's sad voice echoes in your memory. [/i]Injure them, they cry, shame them, they retaliate, humble them, they resent, adore them, they preen. And youkai, even more so.[/i]

And as you know from bitter experience, none more so than a vampire.

A hollow calm settles over you, the idea so monstrous you haven't begun to comprehend the full gravity of it.

“The other youkai,” you say, breaking the silence. “Yuyuko. Yukari. Others, ones I don't know about yet. They do.”

Sakuya's bearing finally crumples completely, her half-lidded eyes sorrowful and sympathetic. “They made her sign a contract,” Sakuya says softly, “after the rampage she went on, when she first arrived. They provide the sustenance, and Remilia refrains from wanton destruction.”

“You're lying,” Keine says, her voice uneven and brittle, arms trembling at her sides. “I've read the Chronicle. I know!”

Sakuya turns her miserable eyes on the schoolteacher. “Akyuu left that detail out, did she? In your copy, at least.”

Keine reels. “No. No.”

“Oh, yes,” you say numbly. “You heard what Yuyuko said. The balance is delicate. And she sent me to restore it.”

“But Yuyuko said-”

“She said vampires hunting humans wouldn't be tolerated. And it isn't. She never actually said what condition those Outsiders are in when they're taken, did she?”

The blood drains from Keine's face. “She antagonized you deliberately.”

“No shit,” you spit. “She knew just what to say.”

A resounding BANG! echoes through the vast Voile library from the direction of the distant doorway. From deep within the stacks comes a rapid clatter of pump heels making haste on the floorboards.

“Patchouli? Patchouli!” Remilia's voice calls. “Is that Outsider scum still running around like a moron?”

“No,” Patchouli replies levelly, still watching the entire spectacle of Sakuya's interrogation with wide eyes. “No, not really.”

“So he's taking his pleasures with that cow at last,” Remilia sighs contentedly as the clickety-clack of her shoes draws closer. “For all her power, she's so desperate for a lay that she jumps the first foul-mouthed moron that leaps to her defense at a dinner-party,” Remilia giggles. “I told you it would work.”

A slight breeze stirs, swaying robes and dresses forbiddingly, which you attribute to all the air molecules near Keine getting the fuck out of the way.

“Yes,” Patchouli says flatly. “Yes it did.”

“While they're busy rutting we'll be busy summoning,” Remilia's voice gloats at high volume from near by, approaching at a more leisurely pace through the stacks. “One this final spell is complete I will answer those insults at last. No more living off the scraps they dole out, no more lurking in this manse like a peasant, no more dueling with that little red-white cunt.

You see Remilia emerge from the stacks, a book tucked under one arm, her eyes closed as she daintily sips from a cup of tea.

“They sought to control me,” she says dreamily, warming to her big finale. “But I control fate. And now, the wheel of fate bears down upon them.”

“Just as planned,” you say.

“Just as planned,” Remilia agrees, and raises her teacup. It reaches her lips at about the same time recognition does. “Blhark,” she comments intelligently, tea splashing on the floor as her brain logjams worse than a ten-wagon pileup in an inner-city roundabout.

“Oh, please continue,” you say dryly. “I usually interrupt those monologues with a Fireball to the face but I'm really enjoying this one.”

Remilia's smug expression is torn off her face as incandescent rage blazes in her eyes. She flings her teacup against the floor so hard the shards fly off like quarrels, one of them grazing your cheek. “My guard, she gestures, making Meiling shrink, “My tutor, she snarls, and Patchouli drops her gaze to the floor, “my maid. Useless. Utterly, disgustingly useless.”

Sakuya recoils as if struck.

“So now its up to me,” she snarls, her dress ruffling slightly as air currents swirl at the mere stirring of her power. “Name your cards. Or cling to the schoolteacher's skirts, like you've been doing this whole time.”

Keine flings her forearm before you in a halting gesture. “Not this time, Remilia,” Keine growls – literally, her voice gaining a buzzing burr around the edges. “You don't get to pick the fight this time. You're dealing with me now, and to me you're just one more spoiled rotten little bitch who needs a whipping.”

A crazy, jagged smile rips open Remilia's face, a glowing aura growing from her as she summons her battle-power. She thrusts her hands forth, the air blurring and darkening into something menacing and spear-shaped. Keine produces a scroll and snaps it open before her, the symbols glowing as she begins to summon Kusanagi. With battle about to be joined, and the end of your mission finally at hand, steel yourself, review your arsenal, and giggle.

Both women actually stop summoning their weapons and ignore their opponent to look at you.

You begin to laugh.

Everyone present stares at you in disbelief as you completely crack up. Keine's offended seriousness, Remilia's shaken confidence, Meiling's bafflement and fear, Koakuma's timid peeking from the relative shelter of the stacks; it's all funny as hell. But it's Patchouli and Sakuya's drawn, bloodless faces that really put things over the top, because a joke isn't perfect if there's no one to share it with. The dissonance 'twixt threat and transparent theatrics; so visible now, is too much to stand.

“Name my cards?” you manage through your chuckles. “A whipping? So you can ooze back into your hole and start your backup plan?” Remilia's mad grin goes brittle around the edges. “Like a vampire that manipulates Fate itself won't lay plans like that when the local cleric's gone twelve-for-twelve?”

Remilia's loco-loli smile falls clean off her face, causing you to snigger even more. “We're not going to fight you, Remilia.”

“FINE!” she screams, tightening her hands around the black shadow and yanking it towards her, ripping a fully-formed broad-tipped spear from the air. She flourishes it with such force you hear the blade sing as she lowers it at you. “Run back to your masters before they yank the leash.”

You sigh, a strange, detached calm descending over you as the mirth subsides. “That's not what I mean, Remilia.”

“Then WHAT!?” she screams, her patience clearly at an end.

“I'm going to kill you, Remilia.”

>She can stop time indefinitely, and you... can't. You need to either drop her quick or mitigate her advantage to gain a few rounds in Time Stop to become the MAGIC IMMUNE IRON DRAGON SWIMMING IN LAVA AT THE SPEED OF LIGHT! You've one standard action (i.e. one spell) before she's on you! Possible options:

[ ] Take out her pocket-watch before anything else. Without her focus her ability will merely be formidable, not omnipotent.

[ ] Use Time Stop and drop her skinny ass with one masterful blow and the considerable advantage of surprise.

[ ] Remove her from the premises entirely in an exceedingly dynamic fashion. So dynamic that even she will be inconvenienced.

[ ] Write-In?





[ ] Write-in?

No. 165726
[x] Use Time Stop and drop her skinny ass with one masterful blow and the considerable advantage of surprise.

Maximum power. No mercy. Kill 'em all.
No. 165727
[x] Use Time Stop and drop her skinny ass with one masterful blow and the considerable advantage of surprise.

Giant iron lava proof dragon? Giant iron lava proof dragon.
No. 165728
[x] Use Time Stop and drop her skinny ass with one masterful blow and the considerable advantage of surprise.

We want to be the Magic Immune Iron Dragon by the time Flandre shows up, not after she starts pushing our shit in, and I am not liking the odds of a three versus two fight in Remilia, Sakuya and Flandres favor.


The other options cause too much collateral damage, which will easily point the other demon-loli-vamp, and maybe even that Ram-you chick, right towards us, the people currently attempting to muderize Remilia in flagrant disregard of the Spellcard rules.
No. 165729
[X] Use Time Stop and drop her skinny ass with one masterful blow and the considerable advantage of surprise.

Time for her to get a taste of her own medicine.


Yeah, Keine needs this.
No. 165730

Might as well since it seems unavoidable.
No. 165731
[X] Use Time Stop and drop her skinny ass with one masterful blow and the considerable advantage of surprise.
No. 165732
I would like to remind everyone that the pocket watch is likely not the source of her powers, and it is likely just part of her.
No. 165733
[x] evan's spiked tentacles of forced intrusion on sakuia

He rest, later
No. 165734
[X] Use Time Stop and drop her skinny ass with one masterful blow and the considerable advantage of surprise.

First, get SAkuya out of the way. Then:

MAGIC IMMUNE IRON DRAGON SWIMMING IN LAVA AT THE SPEED OF LIGHT... with Keine as Dragonrider. It's perfect. The best of all possible worlds.

Finally, Keine will be riding the Wizard.
No. 165735
No the way that she wanted though.

Seriously, she's one locket together in a closet moment away from ravishing him
No. 165736
[x] Use Time Stop and drop her skinny ass with one masterful blow and the considerable advantage of surprise. Shapechange into Planetar then throw around Flesh to Stone and/or Polymorph people into insects and crush them with Telekinesis. Dominate/Hold Monster or Person wouldn't be amiss either. Rearrange spell order to whatever works best.

No. 165737
I just want to say:

-I have been waiting for this for so long.
-We need good theme music for this fight.

So, if wizanon kills Remilia, does that completely screw up the balance, or what?
No. 165738
[X] Remove her from the premises entirely in an exceedingly dynamic fashion. So dynamic that even she will be inconvenienced.



You worthless cunt
No. 165739
Keine needs some R&R. Ergo:

[X] Use Time Stop and drop her skinny ass with one masterful blow and the considerable advantage of surprise.
No. 165741
[x] Use Time Stop and drop her skinny ass with one masterful blow and the considerable advantage of surprise.
She'll probably get better.
No. 165742
File 136383444440.jpg - (94.38KB , 550x764 , GivemTheMagic.jpg ) [iqdb]
[x]Use Time Stop and drop her skinny ass with one masterful blow and the considerable advantage of surprise.

[x]Steal Sakuya's watch (MAGIC ITEM GET) and then use it for yourself to stop time indefinitely. Then proceed to get Van Hellsing on her ass.
No. 165743
First, it's WRYYYYYYYYY.

Second, that's an incredibly stupid write-in. If I need to explain why, you're going to have a few problems fitting in here.

Hint: Stealing magic items like that and using them like that is a great one-way path to Mary Suedom. And nobody wants yet another Mary Sue.
No. 165745
[X] Use Time Stop and drop her skinny ass with one masterful blow and the considerable advantage of surprise.

Wizards are all about winning initiative and getting the 1-round-victory, at least against humanoid targets.


Because teamwork is OP.
No. 165746
[x] Use Time Stop and drop her skinny ass with one masterful blow and the considerable advantage of surprise.
-[x] If possible, take her watch as well.

No. 165747

It's essentially established in both canon and this story that most of Gensokyo's inhabitants innately hold special abilities, and Sakuya happens to be one of them. Wizardanon can try to take the watch from Sakuya, of course, but that means absolutely nothing other then a surprising beat down for him when he discovers that it did nothing to stop Sakuya from initiating a Time Stop if Demetrious chooses to make this story stay true to the Gensokyo we know.
No. 165749
We'll need all the firepower we can get. I doubt Remilia is the last Touhou we need to defeat.
No. 165751
... Frak.

Wizanon, you just broke the spellcard rules.

There's a reason everyone sticks to the spellcard rules.

Welp, may as well make our five minutes of glory as glorious as possible before the big guns show up.
No. 165752
Fuck the big guns! We'll be the even bigger guns!
No. 165753
I don't think we have anything that can hit a target that doesn't exist.
No. 165754

From the Evil Overlord List, item 220:
>Whatever my one vulnerability is, I will fake a different one. For example, ordering all mirrors removed from the palace, screaming and flinching whenever someone accidentally holds up a mirror, etc. In the climax when the hero whips out a mirror and thrusts it at my face, my reaction will be "Hmm...I think I need a shave."

Sakuya's watch is almost certainly a shiny, distracting prop.

(Also, by the RAW,
>You cannot move or harm items held, carried, or worn by a creature stuck in normal time
so it's something of a moot point.)

[x] Activate time stop (we set it up with a contingency, right?).
- [x] Cast flesh to stone on Sakuya.
- [x] Cast stone shape on the floor surrounding Sakuya to swallow her up.

This is almost the least dynamic way possible to remove her from the premises, but it'll do.
No. 165755
What do you mean?
No. 165756
Well this isn't going to end well.

Still considering what to vote for
No. 165757
Reimu's Fantasy Heaven removes her from reality entirely.

Without preventing her from attacking.

I don't think we're willing to outright kill another human just yet.

Also, offering her a saving throw is just begging for her to make it, though a Fort save is still better than a Reflex or Will.
No. 165758
Reimu's Fantasy Heaven takes a lot of energy from her. We just have to wait it out.
No. 165759
[X] Use Time Stop and drop her skinny ass with one masterful blow and the considerable advantage of surprise.

Looks like we're about to cause an incident rather then resolve one so this should be pretty fun.
No. 165760
[X] Use Time Stop and drop her skinny ass with one masterful blow and the considerable advantage of surprise.

No. 165761
Ugh. Lots of twists here...but I don't like any of them. At all.

>She smiles warmly at you, then reaches out and places a fingertip against your nose. Your aches and pains vanish, and she flips her finger up, tilting your hat back into position. “You know what they say about karma,” Keine says, twirling her hair around one finger. “What goes around, comes around. Maybe this is natural, too.” Her smile's gone, but it's still dancing in her eyes, playful and sweet. You smile back, feeling your face flush. A beautiful realization flowers in your mind, and before you can act it slips out of your mouth, pure and empathetic.
>“Fuck. Me. Sideways.”

Stop doing that!
No. 165763
Nope. According to ZUN, if it weren't for the spellcard rules, she'd just do it forever and be perfectly invincible; it's not tiring at all.

I'll find the quote, if you really want me to.
No. 165764
By "ZUN", you mean Marisa.
No. 165766
Who helped her develop the spellcards and explicitly notes that she's having mercy.

Marisa doesn't really have any reason to lie in her own diary, and Reimu doesn't have any reason to lie to Marisa or be wrong. So...
No. 165767
Eh, if people can pretend that Akyuu is wrong, then I see no reason we can't do the same to Marisa.

And honestly, I don't really care what ZUN says. This is fanfiction, where we fix things that are wrong with canon.
No. 165768
Why is this something wrong with canon?

As the people in-story are repeatedly noting, a big part of this is that people who break the balance get slapped down.

That means everyone. Even Remilia. Even Yuyuko. Even the Moriya/Utsuho/Kaguya/everyone else. And all by Reimu.

Better to know our limits, and work around them, then try to go up and confront someone with a perfect win record on their home ground.

... is what I'd like to say, but it looks like it's going to be too late.
No. 165769
It's bad for a crossover story that one side has an unbeatable advantage over the other.
No. 165771
[X] Use Time Stop and drop her skinny ass with one masterful blow and the considerable advantage of surprise.


You had your chance to coexist peacefully, Remi.
No. 165772

It's in the spell description from IN. That's as close to word of ZUN as the profiles and like said profiles is one of the few sources of info not explicitly from another character, so is iron-clad cannon. Not that it can't be ignored by writers...
No. 165773
Touhou canon just keeps getting shittier and shittier the more you take a closer look at it, it seems.
No. 165774
Hmm, I think in all of the Touhou stories that I like (which aren't that many, mind you), the authors all ignore that bit of canon.
No. 165778
At last, iron dragon time!

[x] Use Time Stop and drop her skinny ass with one masterful blow and the considerable advantage of surprise.

It would be better not to kill Sakuya though
,flesh to stone sounds good enough.

No. 165779
Here we go again...

You do not need to be equal in combat to pose a threat. Having an invincible enemy just means you have to be creative.

Use social skills. Manipulate people. Don't fall into traps like this.

If you get into combat with an invincible person, you deserve to lose. Find a better way.
No. 165780
I knew we should've learned some form of mind control.
No. 165783
>social skills
Pick one, and only one.
No. 165784
Then I'm glad that timestop is winning.
Also, save or die against a Touhou character? Really? I imagine their saves would put a Cleric to shame
Poor WIS and CHA can be a constant pain in the butt...
Because you can't brute force your way into everything? Please.
No. 165785
Ever heard of the Diplomancer?
No. 165786
>Also, save or die against a Touhou character? Really? I imagine their saves would put a Cleric to shame

>Poor WIS and CHA can be a constant pain in the butt...
>Because you can't brute force your way into everything? Please.
Well, that's how the Wizard rolls. He bruteforces his way into everything.
No. 165787
If Deme says that removing her watch will make her less powerful then removing her watch will make her less powerful, regardless of the canon.
That said, less power < gone altogether.

[X] Use Time Stop and drop her skinny ass with one masterful blow and the considerable advantage of surprise.


None of the options are much more appealing than the others to me, so I'm just going with the wagon on this one.

Also, as far as Reimu goes, can she eat while in Fantasy Heaven? Can she sleep there? Can she enter Fantasy Heaven at the drop of hat to avoid scry-or-die?
...Can she even find a Wizard who doesn't want to be found when her standard tactics are just "head towards the noise"? (I mean, they have Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion, for starters. It's like Fantasy Heaven, but you can invite your friends and have a 9 course banquet for ~200 people and two servants for every dozen guests to take care of everyone. He just has to pop out for five seconds every 36 hours or something.)
No. 165791
Which works to a point. Reimu is the point. Too bad.
Think of it like attacking a god in Pathfinder or Mr C in CoC.

Also Sakuya obviously has a cataclysmic reflex save and she needs a lot of will to handle her time stop thing... wait it is a fortitude save. Forget I said anything.
No. 165792
It's too bad Imprisonment isn't in 3.5, it's probably one of the most broken spells
No. 165793
except it is crix http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/imprisonment.htm
No. 165794

[x] Then let's do this. Imprisonment on Sakuya, get her outta the way.


Although, considering we're going to try to kill Remilia, if she survives we all know what's going to happen...

"You see what happens when I don't get my way?"
No. 165795
[X] Use Time Stop and drop her skinny ass with one masterful blow and the considerable advantage of surprise.
No. 165801
Important question, do we still have Mind Blank active?
No. 165802
[X] Use Time Stop and drop her skinny ass with one masterful blow and the considerable advantage of surprise.

cast imprisonment flesh to stone and case her in stone even more. There is no such thing as overkill in touhou.
No. 165803
We don't have imprisonment prepared though our two 9th level spells for today are Time Stop and Shapechange.
No. 165804

We don't have Imprisonment prepared.
No. 165805
What prepared spells do we have left? Iron Dragon DOOOM is probably what we are going to end up doing but there are some spells that might solve several of our problems at once. For instance: Planeshifting Remilia, Keine, and ourselves to the Netherworld would utterly negate Sakuya and Flandre (unless/until Patchouli finds us and lets them follow us)
No. 165806
I'm guessing tag team triumph involves Keine helping murder Remilia. Guys, can we please not drag Keine into things anymore than we already have? She's got a life here that will not be improved by having the red-white drop on her like the fist of an angry god for breaking the rules.

No. 165807
File 136389172657.jpg - (50.96KB , 282x239 , 1363809581331.jpg ) [iqdb]

Yes, you do. Your chosen spells are:

-- Timestop
-- Shapechange
-- Polymorph Any Object
-- Mind Blank (cast)
-- Iron Body
-- Greater Teleport (cast)
-- Mordekiens Magnificent Mansion
-- Spell Turning

And you took Quicken Spell as your new feat, so a 1st or 2nd level spell can be used instantaneously.

And I do mean instantly.
No. 165808
Shapechange: Beholder might work out well for a tag-team attack given that you'd be able to orient the antimagic cone as you pleased to debuff Remilia and would also get to hit Sakuya with a ray of Charm Monster and a ray of Charm Person to get her to not interfere

Terrible idea for narrative reasons but the following is technically possible
1. Time Stop
2. Shapechange into Sakuya (gaining all SU and EX abilities)
3. Steal Sakuya's watch
4. Sakuya-style Time Stop until Shapechange runs out of time several subjective hours later
No. 165809

Well in a canon war (which as mentioned before is only of moderate relevance at best) the grimore of Marisa describes it as a "natural state of being" so it is probably instantaneous to cast and thus would probably be a reflex save in scry-or-die situations but you would have to get around her intuition which must add alot to her save.

More importantly though even if you succeed you've just killed the last of the hakurei bloodline and that causes bad things to happen to the barrier and as a result everyone hates your guts as they now see you as a threat to their very existence. And even though canon!Yukari is somewhat weaker then most fan versions she is very capable of scry-and-dieing you right back and reviving Reimu at the same time and you gave her plenty of reason to do so.

So yes everyone is broken, but MAD is very much in force as even if you do kill her and make it stick gensokyo and everyone in it is doomed for it so nothing ever spills over.
No. 165810

Unfortunately she probably counts as unique.
No. 165811
Sorry, but I don't really care for what happens to Gensokyo.

And apparently Yukari can now revive the dead.
No. 165812
Hmmm Quicken Spell makes things fun as we could throw say a Quickened Hideous Laughter at Sakuya, before beginning the Timestop Shapechange beatdown. While we didn't prepare it if we have some scrolls of Greater Planar Binding or similar we could summon ups some angelic help from Dukes bosses while time is stopped. Also we have whatever shineys that Duke brought back with him granted we never took time to look at what we got aside from money.
In any case Flesh to stone seems like a good Idea as would polymorphing Remi or any of the others into say rodents or insects and smooshing them with TK. Also I think a Quickened Protection from Arrows wouldn't go amiss either. argh so many options.
No. 165814
[X] Use Time Stop and drop her skinny ass with one masterful blow and the considerable advantage of surprise.


There was nothing about this update that I didn't like.
No. 165817

That's borderhax for you(specifically fiddling with the boundary of life and death).
No. 165818
Borderhax has its limits though.
No. 165819
Maybe. It's a notoriously hard to define power, though that goes for a lot of powers in Touhou.
No. 165823

It has a few. She had to use a rather obtuse method to get to the moon in SSiB for example, though that may have been because Toyohime has her own variant of borderhax.
No. 165824
Nah, that was just because of distance reasons.
No. 165825
Make Keine take care of Sakuya, while we taunt Remilia.
If she starts to chase us we look for a wall that leads outside, disintegrate it ant throw loli-devil-vampire outside with telekinesis.
If not we use Mislead and and turn Sakuya into stone with polymorph any object while Remi plays with the illusion.
No. 165827
go back to /tg/.
No. 165828
If I wasn't clear, I meant "have the ground swallow statue-Sakuya whole for later", not "have statue-Sakuya melt into and meld with the ground".

Yes, Fortitude is probably her worst save, which is why I picked that one. It's really stone shape that takes her out, though. Flesh to stone just means it might cost less to get her back -- stone to flesh instead of wish -- although EX-Keine will probably find petrifaction and death to be equally trivially edible.

... another option would have been to chain together repeated possibly-quickened castings of touch of idiocy into undeath to death -- either ignoring Sakuya entirely or relying on protection from arrows -- but I didn't think of that at the time and it's probably too late now.

Oh, and because I forgot last time: [X] TAG-TEAM TRIUMPH
No. 165832
>We need good music for this fight.
Shit is about to get extremely metal. Our BGM must be equally metal. Sword of Doom it is.


[X] Tag Team Triumph
No. 165833
Nope. This story is /tg/'s and there's nothing you can do about it.
No. 165835
How common is this sentiment in the reader base? I've got to know.
No. 165837
I dunno. This is an imageboard, so it's hard to know things like that.
No. 165840
I'd prefer NOT to destroy the place. It's where Keine lives after all. Let's just kill the fuck out of Remilia and call it a day. Flandre may also need a good killing. That's gonna be rough.

[X] Use Time Stop and drop her skinny ass with one masterful blow and the considerable advantage of surprise.

Let's us take Sakuya out of the picture, and get off our more advanced spells. The only way this can fail is if Sakuya is immune to Time Stop because of her ability, which is a possibility, but I'm banking on it not happening.

Keine just admitted that she was underestimating Wizard. We can repay that respect by letting her help out.

Plus I really want to see Keine riding an Iron Dragon. Maybe not while swimming in magma, convection would probably kill her.
No. 165841
>Flandre may also need a good killing
>killing Flandre

Never thought I would ever see the day anon wanting to kill Flandre.

I'm with this guy.
No. 165844
No. 165845
This story seems to have a large support base from the DD side of things.
No. 165846
It's a /tg/ story after all.
No. 165848
I see.
Then why is it here?
No. 165850
Because Deme posted it here.

And because /tg/'s mods hate Touhou.
No. 165851
I believe it may be due to the whole "takes place in Gensokyo and involves touhous" aspect definitely plays an important factor.
No. 165853
Because Touhou is not /tg/ related.
No. 165854
If a story's identified as belonging to a certain board, it belongs on that board. Duh.

Oh. That would do it.
No. 165856
It's funny how some people don't even consider that he might like Touhou as much as DnD and thus not making it a "HFY" killfest.
No. 165857
Like >>10688 said, does loving something preclude you from enjoying or making stories that might hurt it?
No. 165858
File 136394554692.jpg - (9.14KB , 252x252 , Idort.jpg ) [iqdb]
>Liking two things

Because MODS are FAGS, always.

Seriously though to everyone complaining where it is, why give a damn? It's a story with DnD characteristics yes, but it's still taking place in Gensokyo. It's also has the potential, and already has a bit, to visit the many places of Gensokyo which places it in General. It's not tied down to any one section at all.

Or you could always just hide it and stop being mad over something so trivial.
No. 165859
I don't mind if this becomes a "HFY killfest" as you called it as long as it's done for a good reason.

Besides, there are too much Touhou crossovers out there where the author flaunts how much superior the Touhous are compared to the characters from the series it got crossed with.
No. 165861
It's not nearly as broken in 3.5 though, that one lets you get a save
No. 165862
at a -4... but you can also stop with SR so I don't know what people are complaining about.
No. 165863
People realize that Iron Body gives us a spell failure chance of 50% right, which means half of the time OUR MAGIC DOESN'T WORK in this kind of fight it is quite possibly the WORST thing we could do, it would be better to shapechange into a creature that has DR and Regeneration.
No. 165873
In 2nd it doesn't give you a save, also weird was a much cooler spell.
No. 165874
[X] Use Time Stop and drop her skinny ass with one masterful blow and the considerable advantage of surprise.
No. 165875
Ah, balls, posted my vote before writing stuff. Had a thought. Is there any chance we could use Timestop to cast Mordekeins Mansion, then toss Sakuya inside and keep her locked up in there? Would that work?
No. 165879
Most people do mind, I'd hope.

We'll see. I shouldn't jump to conclusions.
No. 165880
We'll be casting Iron Body AFTER we transform into a dragon swimming through lava at the speed of light.

At that point, any more spells you would cast are unnecessary.

We'll thwack Meiling away, laugh as our magic immunity negates Patchy's attacks (and maybe even Flandre's destruction ability) and just pin Remilia under a claw and fucking vaporize her with our breath weapon.
No. 165885
Mansion is 7th level spell and we didn't prepare it. Instead I would propose Resilient sphere.
No. 165886
Oh wait, we have it prepared. Still I propose following course of action.
1) Time stop
2) Resilient sphere on Sakuya. Maybe it'll be cruel to force her to watch both I don't want to east Mansion for such trivial task.
3) Mislead (Why should we force ourselves to endure Remi attacks ?)
Then become INVISIBLE dragon swimming through lava at the speed of light.
No. 165888
We don't want him either. He is what we call That Guy.
No. 165890
Yeah right.
No. 165891
What's the matter? Can't take stories where your precious Gensokyo gets destroyed?
No. 165893
[X] Use Time Stop and drop her skinny ass with one masterful blow and the considerable advantage of surprise.


Well, either the status quo dies a fiery death or they find a way of feeding the bitches without killing people. You know, after the big iron dragon has stepped on them a few times.
No. 165894

"So, you believe because you are stronger than them, it gives you the right to eat them, and kill them?"

(Change into lava swimming dragon, etc)

*Ineffectual attacks clink off armor*

"Would you like to come around to my way of thinking, or would you like to experience a first class trip into Irony-Central, also known as my stomach, assisting in my own gastronomical endeavors? Because, by your own logic, that is where you should be going."
No. 165895
The win is strong in this one.
No. 165905
Well, most of us regulars on this site reading this story probably don't want a conquest ending, since it would involve killing a lot of characters whom we like, even if it is one by one. I don't know about you, but generally, most people don't like to see their favorites from their fandom get killed off.
No. 165906
File 136404990954.jpg - (200.15KB , 780x573 , oldasfuck.jpg ) [iqdb]
Yes guys, I'm sure that a 19th level Vampire CR 21 will be easily beat by our 18th level Wizard, specially after he fights two high level guardians immediately before. You guys seem to think that vampire sorcerers (or elderitch knights or whatever the fuck Remilia is) can't deal with DR. The last time we assumed that a mid level warrior couldn't have a will save, Wizanon got a swollen eye.

So, keep the 'epic' speeches for when he's winning would you?

Pic related.
No. 165907
Not nearly witty enough.
No. 165908
I like the "irony central" pun, but given the strength of our opponents here, I really prefer to let our breath-weapon do the speaking for us.

One second she's all high and mighty, the next she's staring down a fucking dragon made of iron, and the next she's a pile of ash.
No. 165910
Don't do that. Any of that. This story being dominated by a 4chan board does not mean it's ok to post like an idiot.
No. 165914
This is a bit off topic, but I was re-reading this CYOA to refresh my memory, and I found this part to be very interesting.

>“Once. A long time ago,” Keine says. She pinches a stack of pages, about to flip to the latter half of the sketchbook, and thinks better of it, slapping it closed and thrusting it at Benson. “I- I’ve already seen the rest of it. Thank you.”

>“He was the first, all that time ago. Others have been emulating him ever since.”

>“And this is what became of all his curiosity,” Keine says sadly, eying the funny fighting knife amongst the magical items. “Anyway! You said you wanted a history lesson?” she says, a bit forced.

It just seems so sad. Keine obviously knew the guy, he was probably her first romance, and he died as mortals do, and this paranoid group of racists is all that's left of him.

Were you ever going to develop this, Deme, or is it a closed case?
No. 165916
He was just a man who woke up one morning and found himself in Gensokyo.
Nothing more.
No. 165919
Well I imagined that was the case, but Keine seemed pretty involved with him.
No. 165931
Don't tell me you've never read Gensokyo High.
No. 165934
Once in the distant past. It got abandoned, didn't it?

Besides, I recall the guy becoming more involved with the Scarlet sisters than Keine. That's supposed to be him then?
No. 165937
Use Time Stop and drop her skinny ass with one masterful blow and the considerable advantage of surprise.


Time is out for playing nice. We have to go all out here. Maybe we can transform Sakuya in something harmless like a Marionette or doll... or we just go with the flesh to Stone variant. Whatever works.

As for Mordenkainens Mansion, we should either use it on Flandre to get her out of the way until Remilia is done, or use a spell turning on her destruction ability... if that would work on this skill

PS: When the hell did we transform Patchouli in a catgirl? (or did we just put catears and a tail on her) I don't think I read that part.
No. 165938

Remember when that bookcase fell on top of Patchy after the Pyonta battle? The alchemy we used to patch her up (pun intended) ended up giving her cat ears.
No. 165940
the swimming in lava seems like a waste of Polymorph Any Object. We could use it to embed all of our enemies in up to 1800 cubic feet of steel during Time Stop by transmuting the floor. Permanently. Remilia might be able to break her way out with effort, but the ones that need to breath ...
No. 165941
File 13641457229.jpg - (29.10KB , 502x275 , little girl.jpg ) [iqdb]

It's a pretty direct reference to this story; "Discovery, Investigation and Manifestations." http://www.touhou-project.com/eientei

It's interesting and well-written; especially owing to the lead character, who's essentially a born scientist; he's insatiably curious and goes a-wandering into Youkaiville at Dark'O'Clock to sketch them and learn more about them; as an extension of learning more about nature in general. It's a kind of person not often explored in fiction.

Given that, the MC's friendship with Keine and events in that story he's torn up and nearly killed by a youkai and suffers resultant PTSD it seemed almost guaranteed that his work would later become the basis the "Secret Society" would be built upon, with all its varying and inter-related motives, positive, negative, curious, cautious, etc. I couldn't help but reference it.

You'll learn more about Keine's past when you get a chance to talk with her. Anon's actually done a pretty fair job of balancing relationship-development with the pressing matters at hand. Which, unfortunately does lead to this:

>Stop doing that!

Oh, he will. One way or the other.

>HFY /tg/ plz go baaaw
>why u blow up Gensokyo kill erryone

I didn't put this last part in the story - it was simply too much exposition, and it didn't feel natural that Wizard would instantly comprehend such an enormity, not with the furious tunnel-vision he's been suffering. He had enough time to comprehend the gist of it, and that was bad enough. But I'll put it here to clarify things; I almost never do this because I think a writer's job is to make this come through in the story, but fuck it. Kanako laid it all out for him in as concise a fashion as possible:

>“You’re new,” Kanako says, “so let me educate you in what the schoolteacher neglected. This place was made by youkai, for youkai – for their very survival. Humans are here because youkai first manifested as reflections of the human spirit’s dark side. That’s why they cause Incidents for humans. They need to – it perpetuates them. It’s what they do. And what you do, Mr. Hero, is solve incidents. Obvious, highly visible incidents.”

>Her head darts forward snake-swift, right in your face, alien eyes boring into yours. “After youkai start them. What youkai don’t want public, they don’t advertise. And if you try digging them up, there will be no danmaku duel, no spellcard rules, no quarter. Leave buried things be, lest you join them.”

The best part? This is entirely canon. The latest chapter of Wild and Horned Hermit (an official manga,) revealed that the youkai have been using household spirits as spies to monitor the opinions and feelings of the townsfolk. The dialogue in Symposium Of Post-Mysticism is also very revealing in this regard. Basically the Human Village is more like the Human Zoo, and powerful youkai actively cultivate and guard their cattle. It's the entire point of the incident/resolution pattern, and Yuyuko was trying to use Wizard as another pawn to maintain it.

Wizard has already comprehended the gist of it - the status quo is something horrific and terrible; innocent people being exploited and used by murderous youkai. Oh sure, most of them live in relative safety and peace, but the few whom are eaten by the ferals, or the suicidal ones kidnapped from outside and fed to Remilia - well, does "for the greater good" seem like an argument the Wizard you're familiar with would accept? He's given his whole life to his crusade against evil, and to the magic that lets him defeat it; this is not something he'll take lying down.

However, for the first time in his short life he has something he's never had before - Keine and Cirno. I don't have to spell out just what in regards to them. Wizard isn't powerful enough to blow Gensokyo's status quo to hell by himself; but he sure as hell is going to rock the boat if he can. But doing that threatens all the other things he could have; love, peace, happiness with Keine and Cirno. He's going to have some tough choices to make.

And so will Keine. Between them, Wizard's the more tangibly fragile one, the one most likely to get killed in any real throw-down conflict - and as Kanako has told him in no uncertain terms, they will try when he starts interfering. What does a polite, kind schoolteacher see in some young, brash, foul-mouthed abrasive asshole? Is she just lonely, and clinging to the first man to break through the social isolation around her - like a male equivilent of the Manic Pixie Dream Girl - or is there something deeper? If she's forced to choose between supporting his battle for Truth and Justice, or saving his life so she won't be alone again, which will she choose, and why?

Have faith; this isn't some blow-up-everyone HFY jerkoff shitfest. /tg/ is sometimes called /t/ouhou/g/ames, and there's still thinly-veiled touhou threads as often as people dare irk the mods - there was one a few days ago, in fact. And "X wants to be the little girl" is one of the most persistent self-reflections /tg/ will make.

No. 165942
File 136414650333.png - (142.42KB , 682x387 , varrasuvis rape face.png ) [iqdb]

There's... a specific reason he's using it to emulate Rock to Lava, and not just to show people that no matter what spells they vote for I won't punish them for not working together to produce a "super hax combo durhurhur."

Sun Tzu wrote: "Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt." He's been pretty hit-and-miss with that first part; Zuul and all, but the second part?

He's had some practice at that.
No. 165946

[x] Write in



Why even deal with Sayuka at all?

We have Mordekien's Magnificent Mansion prepared, and "Only those you designate may enter the mansion." We quicken Tasha's Hideous Laughter, to buy time, then make ourselves a nice playground to deal with Remilia in, head in with Keine and Remilia, and shut the door behind us.

Then we can become a magic immune dragon swimming in lava at the speed of light, and murder the crap out of Remilia.

Now, that does leave the problem of stuffing Remilia into the mansion in the first place, but wizard's a clever person. I'm sure there's a way.

And once we do, we have Remilia inside a place whose internal layout we control entirely.
No. 165947

Eeesh. Touhou gets darker with each official installment, huh?
No. 165948
tis a matter of perspective. Not like reality is much better, being at the mercy organizations (Mobs, Traids, Corps, Governments)
No. 165950
That would work if it was about 10 years that DIM happened. (Don't think it'd been 10 years since Eientei was revealed to Gensokyo at large)

As far as the human Zoo remark? Well it's terrible hypocritical for a GOD to be making it as they're more reliant on humans than youkai. That and depending on depiction, there's a level of co-existance between humans and youkai, suggesting that dynamics in Gensokyo may go in a new direction.

As far as Kasen's remarks about house spirits? That raises various questions in itself, such as how would Kasen, a hermit know this? That and the implication of there being a network of youkai working for their cause. (Not likely as if they were able to band together in such a manner, they wouldn't have been driven to make Gensokyo) Though Yukari and her idea of goblins to replace them might point things in her direction as her and Ran are the ones most likely to look out for youkai.

The interviews/discussions from SoPM are from people all vested in gaining human interest, and they downplay those people's interactions with youkai for the most part. Byakuren wasn't as lucky as the various youkai misdeeds around her temple were pointed out among other things.

Just offering a bit of counter perspective here though I must say ZUN's angling towards a certain point with recent projects. To be honest I'm fearful of that point as it has a chance of being a finale to the series, possibly on a gray or dark note.
No. 165952
>The best part? This is entirely canon. The latest chapter of Wild and Horned Hermit (an official manga,) revealed that the youkai have been using household spirits as spies to monitor the opinions and feelings of the townsfolk. The dialogue in Symposium Of Post-Mysticism is also very revealing in this regard. Basically the Human Village is more like the Human Zoo, and powerful youkai actively cultivate and guard their cattle. It's the entire point of the incident/resolution pattern, and Yuyuko was trying to use Wizard as another pawn to maintain it.

Oh for fucks sake...
No. 165953

I'll cite sources when I get home from work.
No. 165956
>To be honest I'm fearful of that point as it has a chance of being a finale to the series, possibly on a gray or dark note.

No. 165961
Well that's an exceedingly dark interpretation.

Well, Wizard was obviously pointed at Remilia so that he'd smack her down in a new and unusual way. They probably don't expect him to actually kill her, but in the grand scheme of Gensokyo the death of the Scarlet sisters probably won't rile things up that bad.

And while Remilia's setup here truly is foul, I doubt the rest of the Youkai have such a nasty deal going on. Remilia is unusual for her need to consume humans, the other Youkai get by on belief and/or fear. I could see Wizard putting an end to the vampires, and then coming to terms with the fact that some people need to be spooked at night so that others can live. That's an acceptable cost, I think. It also stops him from casting the situation as Gensokyo vs. Wizard, which is one fight he will most definitely lose.

So, let's kill Remilia dead, most likely Flandre as well, then go to ground and wait for it all to blow over. Or skip town and hang out in Bytopia for a bit.
No. 165965

Somehow, I don't think that Mordenkaiden intended the spell to be used as Mordenkeiden's Magnificent Thunderdome.
No. 165967
I think it should as it's stated that the big factions in Gensokyo keep each other in check, one of them suddenly going under would create a vacuum of power. How bad things get depends on what fills it up and if there's any contention for it.

And then there's the risk of ending up on various shitlists, such as Reimu's. I doubt the worst case scenario would occur: ending up on YUKARI'S shitlist.

I know your sources but you're viewing things in a excessive dark fashion, thus misinforming people new to Touhou. Not to say such a thing isn't possible, just not the only thing.
No. 165968
Even killing them might not be needed. A couple threads back some guys thinking up ways to magic what the Scarlets need to eat (Blood, Flesh, whatever) without having to kill humans. We'd just have to 'convince' them that our way is the best way.
No. 165970
I think it's too late for that, Wizanon's rage on has hit critical mass and so far I don't see Keine attempting to stop him or Reimu stopping him her way (numerous yin-yang orbs to the head)
No. 165971
>I must say ZUN's angling towards a certain point with recent projects.
You mean like the new fighting game about the war of faiths?
No. 165972
>how would Kasen, a hermit know this?
What, you mean Ibara "I'm not secretly Ibaraki-douji, despite the title of my eponymous manga series indicating otherwise, honest!" Kasen?
How would she know this, indeed.
No. 165976
That and the fact that unlike pre-MoF games, things have been going in a steady chain reaction for the most part. Only exception was SWR, but the weather muckery in that is referenced in SA in how it affected farmers. It's likely one of the bigger incidents to affect the village.

It goes like this:
-Moriya Shrine arrives
-Kanako starts her nuclear power project, which in turn caps off SA's events
-SA's events in turn result in the flying ship getting unsealed.
-Byakuren after getting unsealed ends up putting her temple right over Miko's new resting place, thus stirring things into motion.

With the new fighting game it's like that as well as pre-MoF incidents. The only low impact incidents I can think of were MoF (mainly affected the mountain and Reimu, resolved without real damage), EoSD (maybe), PoFV (said to be a normal occurance, and all that the normal villager would notice would be flowers.), 12.3, maybe Great Fairy wars (provided you weren't in a 'combat zone')

But stuff like PCB, SWR, that likely wreaked havoc upon the village.

This also applies to Kasen's manga as while it's semi-episodic, it also seems to be angling towards a certain point as well, perhaps even the same one as the games.

Another sign is how A) the fairy manga ended and B) how one of the last chapters had the trio remarking on the power balance in Gensokyo. That manga was basically the lighter side of Gensokyo as it showed life outside of incidents in Gensokyo (and thus a Reimu that's nice to fairies)

That's highly likely but unproven, but it's terribly suspicious for a hermit to know such things as aren't Hermits sorts to stay away from populated area to focus on their sutras/whatever else they need to do?
No. 165978
Stop using that word.

Kasen's not a very good hermit. But she's fun, so that's ok.
No. 165979
>I know your sources but you're viewing things in a excessive dark fashion, thus misinforming people new to Touhou.

What do you mean by "misinforming"? It's actually written right there, in SoPM.

Seriously, "misinforming" is like the whole EX-Rumia thing. A lot of new Touhou fans seem to think it's canon or something.

And we shouldn't stop just because we would get shitlisted by Reimu or Yukari. I will be very disappointed if the Wizard abandons his ideals and "bows down" to those two, and by extension, the law of Gensokyo.
No. 165980
While there would be some fighting, I'm not presuming anything yet, though I can't safely say it'll end like any other touhou incident (tea time at the shrine)

SoPM isn't 100% accurate (it's about an interview held by one of the most biased people in Gensokyo with a bunch of people with faith gathering agendas and articles by a tengu who can't keep her opinion out of things)

>I will be very disappointed if the Wizard abandons his ideals and "bows down" to those two, and by extension, the law of Gensokyo.

And as a result of such stubbornness, makes life harder for both Keine and Cirno (not to mention every other villager) in the long run? Also provoking Yukari seriously tends to end badly. Even without those two, charging into a foreign land and basically forcing its culture to change to yours 1-2 murders a time is rude at the very least.
No. 165981
Ah yes, the usual "Akyuu is lying" excuse. If it's about the darker parts of Touhou, people always use this excuse.

Not so much when talking about powerlevels, of course.

And it doesn't really matter anyway since this is a fanfic. If Deme says so, it's true, no matter what you say.

And I don't care if we're "rude". Wizanon is already rude incarnate.

Besides, we're trying to stop murderers here. Our cause is just.

And the whole "making lives harder" doesn't necessarily have to happen, if we have to say anything about it.
No. 165982
And it's not really "misinforming" if it's right there in the book. What do you want exactly? People telling newcomers "Hey, that book is totally bogus and you shouldn't believe anything in it"? Now that's what I call "misinformation".
No. 165984
You're starting to sound like a Mercykiller. A just cause justifies jack and shit.

Well, there's a reason for the 'Moriya Shrine conspiracy' meme. They're the newcomers who can't get tired or rocking the boat.
No. 165986
To be fair, I tire of that stupid thing. I always assume that Akyuu is 100% right and 'she lies' is just an excuse for ZUN to cover his ass.
No. 165987
>You're starting to sound like a Mercykiller. A just cause justifies jack and shit.

Well, there's the difference of our views right there. Can't be helped.
No. 165991
I never said she's lying, just that what truth there is has to be dug out some.

Did you not get the part of the information being a bit suspect? There's other things to look at for a better view of Gensokyo. It just so happens Deme's running with the darker material.

Funny enough that had its basis in MoF's plot before people knew the finer details (Kanako merely wanted to say hi, the whole making the Hakurei shrine a branch was entirely Sanae's idea) and then actually justified with SA's events.

Then you ignore the part in PMiSS's pre-word that has her admitting to fudging things around, sometimes at the target youkai's insistnace. (the profiles in SoPM are basically a continuation of her chronicles)

That's the interesting yet tricky thing about touhou stuff in this line: There's information, it just can't be taken at blind face value. It's still better than what passes for news in the US.
No. 165992
Could we theoretically kill Remilia (and possibly Flandre?) and then reincarnate them with the correct spell. (as humans, Elfs or something else...) I am not that knowledgeable about D&D, but Wish/Limited Wish can recreate the effects of other spells, right? That would at least lower the hate from Patchouli, Meiling and Sakuya..
No. 165993
File 136423885038.gif - (287.78KB , 292x256 , 1358433192704.gif ) [iqdb]
As a human would be delicious irony.
No. 165994
I believe that vampirism is actually curable.

In BG2, you take a vampire to a temple of Aumuanator (a sun god) and perform some ritual, cleansing the vampire and returning them to a live human.
No. 165995

Unfortunately we don't have any temples of sun gods in Gensokyo as far as I know. At least not of one that can do that. That is, unless you want to take Remi and Flandre per Gate spell to Wizanon's home realm.
No. 165996
There's no need to make such complicated rituals. 'Simply' kill it and cast Resurrection Or Two Wish in a row.

She needs to be willing though.
No. 165998
That was also a full ritual powered by "plot" which required the heart of the master vampire who had turned her in the first place.

I have no idea where we'd find the master vampire that turned Remilia and Flandre if they weren't natural born to begin with, and even if we could that thing would be scary as hell to fight.
No. 165999
Why don't we just polymorph them into humans.
No. 166000
>turning man-eating youkai into humans
I can get behind this plan.
No. 166004
Would a nuclear reactor and a walking shrine work?
No. 166005
Would a Yatagarasu work?
No. 166017

Oh good LORD. We don't even need to fight here, assuming that we don't have necromancy or enchantment as forbidden schools. Touch of idiocy and ray of enfeeblement are second and first level spells respectively. Neither allow a saving throw. We can literally reduce someone to a drooling idiot weaker than a small insect instantaneously. We'd have to touch someone for touch of idiocy, but still. We don't need an epic showdown. We can just render Remillia and Sayuka helpless and casually murder our helpless victim.
No. 166018
he's a generalist dood

also those probably require to-hit rolls, but TRUE STRIKE SO BALANCED.
No. 166019

Ah, my mistake. You can only cast one quickened spell per round, we can't just spam debuffs instantly. That WOULD have been overpowered. We'd need to use time stop to debuff both Remilia and Sayuka sufficiently. And burn a lot of spell slots.
No. 166020
Sounds like some girl from Madoka.
No. 166023
Touch of idiocy is mind affecting, meaning it won't work on undead. Additionally, undead are immune to damage to their physical ability scores, so ray of enfeeblement wouldn't work on her.

And if were picking theme music, how about this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeuuLAdRx4Q
No. 166024
They're perfectly viable against Sakuya, who being (presumably) human, has no special defense against them.
No. 166025
She's the personal maid of a vampire. A vampire who has an in-house magician, with one of the largest magic libraries anywhere ever.
I would be very surprised if she hasn't picked up a few contingencies over the years.
No. 166026
Japanese Vampires aren't undead. :P
No. 166027
I don't think she actually has any magic beyond her time stop and her danmaku.

Touch of Idiocy on Sakuya would work fantastically well, especially during a Time Stop. One second she's the Perfect Maid, the next she's a stuttering moron.

And Enfeeblement on Meiling would be pretty damn effective too, for a person who's so reliant on their physical strength.
No. 166032
Welp there goes the option of reviving her.

Nah, it can still work. Wait, shit, we don't have Wish.
No. 166033
What the hell is a Japanese vampire? And why do you think Remilia Scarlet is Japanese? And why are you using emoticons- no, wait, I think I know the answer to all of these. You're an idiot.
No. 166036
File 136436408240.png - (38.93KB , 180x344 , YAF_IS_A_FAGET.png ) [iqdb]
Given the history of this site, I would expect you to know this, yeah?
No. 166050

Unfortunately, we can't target anyone else with our spells while in time stop. It gives us 1d4+1 rounds of apparent time to cast in, but only AOE spells with a duration longer than the time stop, like Cloudkill can be used against anyone else.
No. 166066
Odds that even if Wizanon gets killed, he'll still come back to Gensokyo to hang out with Kiene after he passes on to Celestia and becomes a Lantern Archon?
No. 166067
Uhh, I don't think he's Lawful.
No. 166070
I'm not even sure if he's neutral.
No. 166071
He's Chaotic.
No. 166072

Chaotic Good is Bytopia, right? What do Bytopians become?
No. 166074

Bytopia is Neutral/Lawful Good. Chaotic good aligned planes are the Beastlands, Arborea, and Ysgard.

Beastlands: peaceful forests; you turn into a furry.
Arborea: peaceful forests, fields, and glades; you turn into a magic elf.
Ysgard: rivers of earth, ice, and fire crash together in the howling sky; you fight giants, drink the mead of gods, and glory in heroic struggle.

I think I know where Wizard fits best.
No. 166075
Wait. Does wrapping a Wall of Stone around someone count as "targeting" them? During Time Stop, can we just wrap a stone sphere around Sakuya and then turn that stone into lava?

I'm fairly sure you can't Time Stop out of being encased in lava.
No. 166076
Beastlands, of course. The wizard's obviously an unrepentant furry. Haven't you seen Keine's were-hakutaku form?
No. 166078
No, wall of stone does not count as targeting them unless you're forcing them to make a save. Dropping it on them definitely not, lava transmutation probably not. DM's call on that sort of thing usually.

Sadly this plan probably won't work anyway. Can't Sakuya expand, contract, and sequester space within the mansion? And she can stop time on her own with a lot less of a limit than ours. Plenty of thinking and acting time to get out.

Hopefully she isn't hostile and we won't have to ace her, because fucking time ninjas are in no way conductive to our health.

Better to buff up as hard and fast as possible with our timestop.
No. 166079
Just polymorph her into a frog.
No. 166080
Polymorph is an awful combat spell, easy saves, short duration, especially if you want to turn them into something harmless,and targeted, so we still couldn't cast it while in timestop.
No. 166081
I've never played D & D, so forgive me if I'm wrong, but would it be possible to wack her upside the head during the timestop.
No. 166082

Time stop prohibits us from doing anything that moves or harms anything not on our person for the duration.
No. 166083
Baleful Polymorph is not a good kill spell and Polymorph is willing creature. PaO is no save as long as we don't target an object or replicate any of the other save or loses. We can't do it out of a Time Stop, but we can put one of them down no sweat for twenty minutes minimum.

So we should turn Sakuya into a potato or something turn one, then either Time Stop and come up with an elaborate lava and holy water death trap for Remi or Shapechange into a Solar and divinely fist a devil loli while rock hard.
No. 166086

I agree with the turn Sakuya into a _____ plan. We have to be careful that whatever we turn her into though, it's got the characteristics for a "Permanent" duration (Depending on what we turn her into, the duration changes. She can't resist the spell unless we turn her into an object. The optimal thing to turn her into would be really really dumb and harmless). We don't know enough about her timestop powers to know if she could just stop time until the clock runs out on the spell. Or just stop time and eat her way through us a bite at a time. Soooo... turn her into a Tribble? So long as there's no food in immediate proximity to her, we're probably fine.

That said, I really like the idea of casting Mordenkaiden's Magnificent Murderhouse after we buff up in timestop, and then tackling Remilia into it. Then we our own little playground to throw down in. Keeps the splashy spells away from all the books/squishy mortal types that aren't us. Or Keine.
No. 166090
Polymorth-any-object into a crippled human child has permanent duration. And by crippled, I mean lobotomized/head-kicked-in-by-a-donkey.
No. 166092
Hell, if I'm reading the spell right, we could just go for maximum troll factor and polymorph Sakuya into "Sakuya with no limbs, eyes, or teeth".

Gotta get rid of those teeth. She might bite us to death in timestop.
No. 166094
PAO can be resisted.

SRD: This spell functions like polymorph, except that it changes one object or creature into another.

Now, Polymorph says: Target: Willing living creature touched.

In other words, PAO as described functions as a buff only. You can't use it offensively except by copying Baleful Polymorph.

Time Stop followed by Force Cage or Stone Shape is a much better bet.
No. 166095
as an aside, the best use for Polymorph Any Object is probably to turn into a White Ethergaunt from Fiend Folio. You get a base Int score of 28 and a few nifty abilities, and the spell lasts long enough that you can sleep on it and gain bonus spells. This stacks with Shapechange, too, since that spell doesn't affect mental stats.
No. 166096
Otilukes resilient sphere is also a good one, it forces Sakuya to spend several real time rounds waiting before she can use timestop.
No. 166097
Resilient Sphere targets a creature. You can't cast it inside a timestop. Plus it's got a reflex save, which is likely Sakuya's best save.

Force Cage / Stoneshape are permanent and saveless solutions, on the other hand.
No. 166098
If you're going to turn yourself into an Ethergaunt, you might as well turn yourself into a Black Ethergaunt. Int 31. No special abilities, though, because they haven't got any Extraordinary Special Attacks, just a handful of Supernatural Attacks. Well, unless racial "casts spells as an X-level Wizard" counts as an Extraordinary ability. In which case we get to jump up into Epic spellcasting for a week with a wave of our hands.

Not that it matters, because they're Aberrations and Wizanon haets Aberrations, given how he reacted to Pyonta. He's not exactly about to turn himself into one for a week (or permanently, if Wizard-to-ultrationalist-spellcaster-aberration counts as a thematic link the same way human-to-marionette and sheep-to-wool-coat does).
No. 166100
again: "This spell functions like polymorph, except that it changes one object or creature into another."

You could argue that that means it can't do anything past 15HD.
No. 166101
I think wizzard haets Pseudonaturals, rather than aberrations. I can't imagine he'd flip out to a Elan.
No. 166102
Force cage is actually only 2 hours per level, but that's more than long enough, the 1500 GP material component on the other hand...

Stone shape and a bottle of air are probably the best way to lock someone down indefinitely.
No. 166103
stone is weaker than you'd think. 8 hardness, 15 HP per inch of thickness. considering she has daggers on her, she'll break out eventually.
No. 166106
Even if she can't move her limbs because they've been encased in stone? Also I haven't read up on the exact rules but what precisely is stopping us from for example transmuting the air in her lungs to lead? Or how about placing a small pebble in the right vein to cause a stroke?
No. 166110
Those would be "targeted" uses of PaO; we can't do anything that targets a creature while in Time Stop. AFAIK we can build a stone cage around Sakuya, but we can't encase her in stone so she can't move.

Which is why we should put her in a stone sphere, then turn that stone into lava. She can't break out of a foot and a half shell of lava without burning all of her limbs off.
No. 166111

As far as I know, Polymorph any object only allows a save, that is, "can be resisted," if we turn her into an object. Animal to animal can't be resisted. So, turning Sakuya into a statue both allows a save, and is not permanent. Now, it would give her an int of zero, so the non permanent duration isn't a problem (I'm assuming she needs to at least be able to think to stop time), but it might not work due to giving her a save.

Turning Sakuya into a a Tribble DOESN'T allow a save, because a Tribble isn't an object, and if I'm adding up the duration modifiers right, is permanent. So she's not going to timestop her way out of it, and she can't chew us to death, because she's basically the most fluffy and cuddly creature known to the Multiverse.
No. 166121

Do you know the difference between a sphere of stone and a sphere of lava? I'll give you a hint, one of them collapses under the force of gravity and burns Sakuya to death.
No. 166123
As much as we all like to rules-lawyer, I think we should remember that Demetrious said that he wouldn't punish us over little things, he encourages creativity.

I'm pretty sure he'll let us bend the rules a little bit if it gives us an awesome effect.
No. 166124
Is that bad? Do we not want to do that?
No. 166125
8 hardness actually soaks the full damage of a dagger and 18 strength, so unless she jacked her strength score way high which seems rather unlikely, no she wouldn't.
No. 166126
A bunch of people are suggesting Shapechanging into something other than a dragon, and they're missing the point.

Remember back when we first crash-landed in Gensokyo, we were worried that we might have committed some sort of horrible blasphemy by killing a dragon, because these people worship dragons?


By turning into a magic-immune dragon, we are essentially proclaiming that we can take the form of their god. That's going to have massive psychological effects on anyone who knows about it. It's probably even a plot point that we can turn into a dragon, which I think is why Deme is apparently ignoring all of the Planetar suggestions.
No. 166127
Ooh, I like this guy.
No. 166130
Oh shit. Oh fuck. This was linked in the first thread.

>Its cry rends the heavens and causes thunderstorms.

We did that. We conjured a thunderstorm to clear out a crowd.

>Incidentally, the dragon can go anywhere, regardless of the great border. It is said that it moves its body freely even to the outside world, the Netherworld, or Hell.

We did that. Remember our Boast in the Scarlet Mansion? We've been to Hell. We can Plane Shift and Greater Teleport. And we have very recently Blinked through the gates of the Netherworld.

>Who knows what would happen to Gensokyo if someone were to invoke its wrath.

This is the entire premise of this story.

We could easily be mistaken for Dragon, or a proxy or divine minion of Dragon. Or maybe Dragon messed up Lotho's Plane Shift spell to bring us here.

No. 166131
Holy shit, you're right!

Okay, we'll just pretend we're an emissary of the Dragon, coming to Gensokyo to set things right. Or something like that.
No. 166132
I really doubt the dragon Wizard has in mind for shapeshifting would resemble the Dragon. Sure, they'll recognise it as a species of dragon, but they'll probably assume it's a lesser form. Which in all fairness, it is.
I mean, the big D doesn't get worshipped just because he has scales and wings and breathes fire, right?
No. 166135
This. Eastern dragons are long, snaky things with tiny feet that fly through the air with no visible means. The kind of dragons Wizard is familiar with are the typical Western "dinosaur with wings" dragons.

Still going to be impressive as hell.
No. 166136
only true if her daggers are nonmagical. I wouldn't want to find out the hard way.
No. 166137
Putting down Remilia is part of the mission that Yuyuko (unofficially) gave us. Killing one of her servants could be viewed as collateral damage.... unfortunatelly, I bet my ass that by 'putting Remilia down' Yuyuko expected him to 'hurt her and die painfully, backtracking her efforts a few decades' who knows what could happen if he actually beat her...

Anyway, I digress. Killing a mind thralled servant of a Vampire, if we have other options, is an evil action and off-character so nope, we don't want to do that.
No. 166138

How about just putting it one millimetre from her skin then? Doesn't touch her yet does the job. Otherwise, there's plenty of stuff out there that's stronger than stone and not all of it even that particularly difficult to transmute. High strength low alloy steel? Titanium?
No. 166140
This thread is very active, so please sage your posts. It's kind of annoying for it to be the top of the board all of the time if there isn't a new update.

Anyway, iron and steel have 10 hardness; 2 more than stone. To break through that, Sakuya's daggers would have to be +5 Large Daggers, which is possible though unlikely, or adamantine, which I'm fairly sure they're not.

We can't shape Walls of Iron like we could Walls of Stone, but we could easily PaO a WoS or Stone Shape'd container into iron or steel.

Or, you know, we could cast Forcecage (Windowless Cell) around Sakuya. Time Stop only affects yourself, not anything around you, so the cage will last 36 hours real time. The only concern is that she might Time Stop for too long while trying to break through it, and suffocate.
No. 166142
File 136478345352.jpg - (1.50MB , 1354x2040 , I couldn't pick just one.jpg ) [iqdb]
[X] Use Time Stop and drop her skinny ass with one masterful blow and the considerable advantage of surprise.


Remilia's haughty expression splatters as it impacts Reality at high velocity. Your specialty is still-life, but if you did portraits you'd name this one “Pawnage.” Alas, such splendid beauty lasts for but a moment before all hell breaks loose.

Unless you're a goddamn wizard.

Slo'yho'rhol! you snap crisply. Your skin tingles as one of the most powerful spells ever penned discharges, your stomach doing a little flip as you're shunted sideways from the timestream. You feel the difference immediately; the thrumming, nearly-audible tension in the air – the pause between space-time's breaths.

You're in Time Stop. And so is Sakuya.

The crisp click! of her pocket-watch's plunger is surprisingly loud in the unnatural silence. Sakuya's power is clearly innate; but magic that powerful is difficult to control without a focus of some sort – such as her pocketwatch. Relieving her of it would make it drastically more difficult to maintain the effect – which would still leave her capable of mimicking a ninth-rank spell repeatedly after some indeterminate recovery time. Iron Body (or half the things you might Shapechange into) can laugh off hundreds of throwing knives, but Sakuya's not stupid; she'd improvise quickly. Removing her bodily from the premises in your typical fashion would buy you time, but you've no idea how much. And she's clearly a skilled fighter; you doubt you could best her in the thirty meager seconds Time Stop affords.

There's only one real option: do nothing.

Her sensible pumps measure her progress towards you with muted tumps on the scarlet rug. You stand completely still, not breathing, not blinking, as she circles around to your front and looks you in the face. In the assumed privacy of Time Stop, her expression is unguarded; openly sorrowful. You envision Remilia, where you know her to be standing behind her maid, and keep your eyes focused through Sakuya with mental discipline honed by many years of practice under pressure.

Sakuya produces a kosh from her apron pocket.

“I'm sorry,” she says sadly. “I hope you'll come to understand.” Sakuya draws the kosh back behind her head, and reaches for her watch.

“GOTCHABITCH!” you scream as you plant a quick right into her stomach. Completely unprepared, the Perfect and Elegant Maid barely has time to ackh before you plant a left uppercut on her chin and bring your right through with all your magically-enhanced strength in a straight cross to the eye.

Mysterious, elegant, and immensely powerful she may be, but Sakuya Izayoi is still a slender human woman. She drops like a sack of bricks.

“I'm sorry,” you snarl, drawing your foot back. “I hope you'll come to understand.” You kick Sakuya in the belly hard enough to lift her off the floor, but your sucker punch has truly put her out cold.

You crack your knuckles, satisfied, and look around the Stopped room.

“And now,” you mutter. “Dragon time.” The jade circlet required as a focus is already integrated into the band of your wizard hat, so all you need do is whisper the words. You follow with Spell Turning. The magical energy of two powerful spells fairly sizzles on your skin, a tingly, electric rush of power that longs to burst the bonds of your meager body and become.

So you do.

From Remilia's perspective, exactly seven-tenths of a second elapse between the words “I'm going to kill you,” and your instantaneous transformation into a forty-ton magic-immune pyroclastic dragon.

PROMOTIONS!” you bellow, your voice crashing and thundering like boulders dropping into magma. Remilia stares at you with the slack-jawed shock unique to chessmasters who've just had the pawn kick over the table and belt them in the chops with the gameboard. Exploiting her delay, you crane your neck upwards, looking at the smooth, thin roof of unworked stone you summoned to block Patchouli's bombardment from above.

You Polymorph it into lava.

With one step you place Keine and the unconscious Sakuya under your sixty-ton bulk, shielding them as a torrent of molten fire crashes upon the Library. The viscous incendiary blobs splatter off your rocky hide harmlessly, but your enemies scream as they fling themselves away with varying degrees of success. You glimpse Meiling flinging Patchouli clear even as a glob splatters near her, sending a red-hot spray into her legs.

As a twelve-foot high, thirty-foot long, sixty-ton mass of living volcanic rock and magma, you finally feel capable of expressing all the emotions you couldn't earlier. Your horror and outrage and terrible all-consuming wrath surge in your belly, the pressure building inexorable and swift.

Remilia has run straight up the side of a support column and as she flip-kicks off, a blinding ruby light coalesces around her body. She screams towards you, literally, a horrible piercing cry of bloodlust tearing from her throat as she comes.

You erupt.

A thundering roar tears from your throat, the sheer volume alone enough to smash anything in its path. The blast of sonic energy and superheated ash flings the flaming remnants of Patchouli's light reading materiel in Remilia's face a tenth-second before the blast swats her away, slamming her back into the pillar.

The piles of helpless dead may lie forgotten by man, by miko, by monster, by the distant and damned Gods themselves, but not by you. Mere mortal you may be, fragile and flawed, but in this brief hour you are as awesome and inevitable as a volcano, and you will call their murderers to account.

Below you, Keine has scooped up Sakuya's limp form before the inch-deep puddle of lava can reach her. The schoolteacher sprints up your right foreleg, the maid slung over one shoulder, Kusanagi in her free hand. You feel her plant her feet between your shoulders, guarding your blind spot.


You turn just in time to see Meiling bring her foot down on the floor in a stomp that shatters the floorboards. A blast of warm, bright yellow energy blasts through the floor around her foot and surges through the floor towards you, an energy-wave moving through the earth itself. Lava and flaming remnants of floorboards go flying to each side as the wave barrels towards you. It explodes with a bright flash as it slams into your belly, blinding you for a moment, but your forty-ton bulk barely rocks.

You blink away the blindness just in time to see Meiling bolting down the bare path her attack cut through the lava with incredible speed. She flings herself into a kick without breaking stride -

- a blinding flash of prismatic light as her incoming heel vanishes into a rainbow comet -

As the sparkly spiritual energy detonates in your skull, surfing your thoughts away on the paintide, you vaguely reflect that you've had this one coming, haven't you?

“GIVE HER BACK!” Meiling screams as she executes a lovely somersault in the air above you, her long tresses swirling after her like a comet-tail as she straightens out and falls towards you, her fist thrust forward like a spear and glowing red with something you cleverly guess will hurt a lot. You tense, waiting for the impact.


It feels a lot more... diffuse than you expected, and doesn't hurt at all.


You can't quite place the tune Keine's making, but it's pretty catchy for improv played on the Volcanic Dragon in the key of C. It'd sound even better if the mallet would stop shouting.

[ ] CHANGE...
[ ] INTO SOMETHING [user specified]


Honestly, these options suck so I'm opening the floor to write-ins even more then normal. Write-ins don't need to win with a majority of votes to be considered, so go wild. Anything is fair game, from simple gambits to longer-term strategy.
No. 166144
Just to clarify, the CHANGE options are a single option, such as:

No. 166145



No. 166146
File 136478680951.jpg - (506.40KB , 717x800 , maybeweshouldchangeintothis.jpg ) [iqdb]
[ ] Spell-casting (Do we need to specify?)
No. 166147
>You can't quite place the tune Keine's making
I assume you mean Meiling.

[x] You heard the nice lady, Keine. Give the maid back. Airmail, express delivery.
No. 166148

You can specify spells if you want, but you don't have to. The option refers to casting more spells as your go-to move in the next phase of the fight, rather then relying on physical attacks/Shapechange as your primary weapon.
No. 166149
File 136478775531.jpg - (31.33KB , 400x400 , meiling wat.jpg ) [iqdb]

Keine is the drummer.

Meiling is the mallet.
No. 166150

No. 166151
[X] Remilia just experienced our Awesome Blow. Now comes the Overrun (with Power Dive).

Keine's got Meiling handled.
No. 166152
I sort of get it. Maybe.
Will that end well? I don't think that will end well. Not at all.
No. 166153
File 136479158613.gif - (1.95MB , 320x227 , pqFpP.gif ) [iqdb]
Keine is the drummer.
The drums are Wizanon.
Meiling fills in as one of the drumsticks.
No. 166154
As a quick reminder, what spells does Wizanon have right now?
No. 166155

Let's get out of the picture, permanently. (I assume Sakuya is Batgirl)
No. 166156

From >>165807

-- Timestop (cast)
-- Shapechange (cast)
-- Polymorph Any Object (cast)
-- Mind Blank (cast)
-- Iron Body
-- Greater Teleport (cast)
-- Mordekiens Magnificent Mansion
-- Spell Turning (cast)

6th level and below are DM Fiat; if Deme likes the idea, Wizard has the spell. Deme also can't be arsed to count up the votes for 34 spells of levels 0 to 6, and we'd start arguing over whether to take Disrupt Undead (ray, 1d6, effective vs undead only) or Flare (Dazzles 1 creature: -1 on attack rolls).
No. 166157
[x] CHANGE...

Yes, update! And it was awesome!
No. 166158
I think Keine caught Meiling, and is currently ragdolling her on Wizanons draconic form.
No. 166159
File 136480046810.jpg - (80.78KB , 398x224 , FLYING TIGER CRUSHES WINGED RAT.jpg ) [iqdb]

[x] Target (oh come on do I even need to say it) (Batgirl)
No. 166160

Stay on Target, and let's keep any unnecessary Murders from happening.

Hell, Wizanon might even manage to devise a Funbox™ to put Flandre in for the rest of Eternity.
No. 166161
focus on batgirl

We should start off relying on physical attacks, lure her in, make her forget all about that whole wizard thing, then while she thinks she's found a way to get around our defenses, we bring down the hammer on her, nailing her with all the magic at our disposal.
No. 166162

Keine can handle Meiling I'm sure,
or casting something that hurts melee attackers, fire shield?
No. 166163
We came here to kick Remi's ass and we should do this before Yukari or Rei my show up to stop us.
Cast Misdirection, because if anything is more scary than burning dragon trying to eat you, it's invisible dragon trying to eat you. Than go straight to eating the loli-devil-vampire-bitch (Wizard will probably get indigestion but such irony miss well worth it).
No. 166164
[x] Focus Remilia.
-[x] Eat Remilia for irony?

We should just focus on doing what we came here to do, which is give Remilia a healthy serving of JUSTICE. Also just as a side note Patchouli might be active in some corner of the room preparing some ridiculous spell so we need to finish this as quickly as possible.
No. 166165
File 136481411638.jpg - (5.35KB , 256x192 , Anti-Douchebag Solution.jpg ) [iqdb]
No. 166166
File 136481565969.jpg - (44.46KB , 466x633 , PyroHydra.jpg ) [iqdb]
here's the metagame, guys: sixty-ton dragon or not, now that there's a ruckus it's just a matter of time until Flan shows up and team wizzard gets turned into fine red mist.

priority now:

1. kill Remi ASAP.
1a. don't get interrupted by whatever China's doing
2. GTFO.

[x] Change
[x] Pyrohydra
No. 166167
Clearly this is when we should be getting serious yes? Then I have two suggestions for shape shifting. Takem or leavem Deme.


No. 166168
[x] INTO A BIGGER GODDAMNED DRAGON [Bahamut class aka god damn great wrym/hll wrym class]


laugh laugh like you've lost your mind cause they will die now XD
No. 166169

Aerial combat in the library. Go all dragon-kung-fu on Batgirl's ass.
No. 166170
File 136482859541.jpg - (27.34KB , 500x417 , Wailord-body-slam-pokemon-23196984-500-417.jpg ) [iqdb]

[X]drop a whale on her, hey it worked on Pyonta
[X]if she still moves add your own sixty tons.
No. 166171

Do we have something against insta-death effects?
No. 166172
Spell turning is a wonderful thing dealing with just such an eventuality, depending on the power of said spell, may cause it to reflect back and hit Flandre in its entirety, or if her spell is particularly high rank it'd give a percent chance to reflect.
No. 166173
it's not a death effect - if I were to houserule it into d&d it'd be either an Epic Spell or Salient Divine Ability. I wouldn't expect the standard suite of magical defenses to work against it.

Having said that, really it's no harder than any other high-level caster duel: just get the drop, and Bob's your uncle. Even easier with Keine helping.
No. 166174
...Can we cast Iron Body? Does it stack with shapechange?
No. 166175
>The piles of helpless dead may lie forgotten by man, by miko, by monster, by the distant and damned Gods themselves, but not by you. Mere mortal you may be, fragile and flawed, but in this brief hour you are as awesome and inevitable as a volcano, and you will call their murderers to account.

Fuck. Yes. Crowning moment. This is why I come here.


We're a giant pyroclastic dragon. Meiling's punches are doing jack shit. Remilia's Gungnir might be able to do some harm, so she's the primary threat, and is also the primary target. I love it when circumstances come together.

Open wide and blast lava (or whatever a pyroclastic dragon spits) all over the place. Burn this vampire's lair to ash. Then body-check Remilia, pin her under a claw, and vaporize her.

Start at 7:00. That's what I want to do.
No. 166176
Except we don't lose at the end, like Grougal does.

We're better than that. We're ON FIRE.
No. 166178

Given how little we know about how Flan's ability works in D&D terms, Wizanon should indeed probably (in-character) want to try his best to avoid finding out whether it's the kind of magic that Spell Turning would work against.

But speaking out of character, on the other hand, if we are going to need to take out Flandre, I can think of few more ironic ways than to FAIL in our efforts to not get hit by her... and have Spell Turning end up working as advertised.

For the more immediate tactics:


I agree with >>166160, let's not go killing anyone we don't have to. Keine saving Sakuya means she doesn't want this to get unnecessarily ugly herself; let's go with that approach too. She's got Meiling handled, so Remilia is the real threat at this point anyway.


Our current form seems to be working pretty well so far. At least, I can't think of anything SO vastly better that would be worth spending the time to switch into it. One of our best advantages right now is Remilia's shock. Giving her time to get her feet back under her and think/plan/prepare is going to be a bad thing.

The momentum of the battle in running in our favor, currently. Keep pressing it, and don't let up on the vampire.
No. 166179
[x]First order of business is forcing Remillia into melee with us using control spells and judicious use of our breath weapon then grabbing her and hitting her with some touch debuffs like Touch of Idiocy/rip off her limbs and or use our breath weapon to end her. Remember we have a line of disintegrate as another mode for our breath weapon. granted it only works on creatures and is all or nothing based on a Fort save, but that is still quite the weapon. In any case we need to finish this us quickly so we can deal with Flandre. On that front I would recommend save or dies or debuffs that require will saves Phantasmal Killer etc. Patchouli is not much of problem now especially now with our spell turning in place, at worst we just turn her into a statue with Flesh to Stone or have Keine deal with her after she is finished being the Hulk to Meiling's Loki. As for when we are done, I Suggest GTFO and chill in magic mansion for a day to avoid Reimu and others and just collect ourselves, plan, do whatever.
No. 166183
After skimming a few books, i couldnt find anything with anti-undead Ex or Su abilities that would make shapechanging into them worthwhile over the dragonform.

Not sure about Combattactics, but


and, try to be nonlethal on the others.

We should be a bit careful about trusting in our dragonforms physical defenses too much, given the powerlevel around here Gungnir may well be an artifact with who knows what abilities.

Also regarding flandre, i wonder if removing her sister would affect her mental state. Although if anything she would probably go more crazy, so thats not really helpfull.
No. 166184

Modron Maze?

What's our highest summon spell? Could we call in a Planetar? Good backup is always appreciated.
No. 166185
Unfortunately Planar binding requires a somewhat involved ritual so I don't think we can call in angelic support unless we have a scroll of it or something. Though if we do have a scroll of Planar binding we could call in a Planetar or Astral Deva.
No. 166189

Actually, Mordenkaiden's Magical Mansion may work as a funbox for Flandre, with two key benefits. It can provide a "nine course banquet for up to a dozen people per caster level." Given that we have fairly complete control over the contents of the mansion, we can probably meet her unique nutritional needs. So, the primary perk is that we can keep her "fed," and relatively content while she's inside. I added the quotes around "fed" because of the secondary perk. When she leaves, all the benefits of that food vanishes, as if she'd never eaten it.

What happens to vampires that haven't eaten in a month?

I don't know, but it should be interesting.
No. 166190
Or we could just yell at Duke to go get one.
No. 166191

Where exactly do you get that all benefits of the food vanish? The standard version seems to indicate no such thing.

Starving flandre may be an option if we can trap her (while its not exactly clear how much,(touhou canon being nebulous at the best of times) she seems to be at least somewhat vulnerable to some vampiric weaknesses, so something like enough flowing water might suffice).
Of course theres no gurantee that whatever weird vampire mess up she is can even die from starvation, she might just go mindlessly bloodcrazy. Standard d&d vampires... well i think in core alone it says nothing about starving, by libris mortis they lose their minds and become feral with singular focus on feeding after a while, but wont die.
No. 166192

Well, I was going to tell you that I got the whole "benefits of the food vanishing" thing from the spell description, but when I double checked with the players handbook and the srd, it wasn't in there. However, googling about, I did find a version of the spell description that did have that in there, which I'm assuming is how I came up with that. I'm going with the srd as the accurate data source, so I'm afraid I'll have to apologize.
No. 166193
>The piles of helpless dead may lie forgotten by man, by miko, by monster, by the distant and damned Gods themselves, but not by you. Mere mortal you may be, fragile and flawed, but in this brief hour you are as awesome and inevitable as a volcano, and you will call their murderers to account.

Probably the best line of text on this website.

No. 166194
Heck, MMM would be the ideal solution if we weren't intent on getting revenge for the murdered innocents.
No. 166195
You know, if something happens (other heavy hitters show up or something) and we can't kill them, then it's a pity we don't have Binding. 8th level wizard that'd let us trap em in a jar until our terms are met to free them (like say: them feeling truly remorseful for the people they killed, so probably forever). Ah well...

[X] HOW CAN YOU TOP A VOLCANIC DRAGON STFU (unless we change into a Time Dragon and do our own time hax)
[X] BATGIRL (Remilia)

Let's stay focused, no one else needs permanent damage. We are trying to be heroic after all. That said, I don't suppose there's an arcane version of Death Ward for when Flandre shows up?
No. 166196
As someone pointed out earlier, highly doubt it'd matter. Salient-Divine-Ability level. She blew up a freaking meteorite with it and didn't break a sweat.

It's not really a death effect anyway. It's a "the universe says you're mist now, sorry." I'm not even sure if our magic immunity will stop it.
No. 166197
Also I can't believe I forgot about this, but we can buff Keine as well. A haste or displacement would be pretty useful for the both of them.
No. 166198
>With one step you place Keine and the unconscious Sakuya under your sixty-ton bulk

>It explodes with a bright flash as it slams into your belly, blinding you for a moment, but your forty-ton bulk barely rocks.

C'mon man. Check yourself before you wreck yourself.
No. 166199

It isnt necessarily divine ability level, might just be something along the lines of disintegrate/destruction. The scale of that meteor is hard to tell exactly, but its something that from scale compared to brute force spells would place her ability in epic levels. However, stopping a meteor like that might be within reach of wish or the stop natural disaster thing miracle can do, so getting there nonepically is possible, if hard.

However, the key to fighting flandre, assuming more exotic plans like trapping her, planeshifting her or whatever else creative method we have to effectively avoid the fight dosent work out, may be psychology. Flandre is in this story some combination of spoiled child, sadistic monstor and batshit crazyness. She definitely isnt someone who fights intelligently with all her abilities. Quite mundane triking her or exploiting her quirks may be the key to victory.

Also we shouldnt just focus on the destruction thing. Four of a kind (creates three quite powerfull by themselves clones) and And then there will be none (minutes of what im assuming to be better hiding than just normal invisibility while keeping up a barrage of attacks) might also come up, and they could be quite the headache as well.
No. 166201
[X] I want to bast UNDEATH TO DEATH
On Batgirl, of course. Wizards have it as a sixth level spell, and there's no fucking way he'd have walked into this fight without it.
No. 166203
[X]Immersion in lava does 20d6 damage, and we have a giant Grapple modifier while being totally immune to it!
No. 166204
You know you say planeshifting, but since nobody here is native to this plane, we could Dismiss enemies if need be or if we don't want to kill them.

But yes, Flandre's other abilities are an issue as well, I think the only way to properly deal with those is act first and just throw save or dies or what have you as fast as possible so she can't get a shot in
No. 166207
So is it just me or did Polymorph Any Object (ceiling-->lava) do all of jack and shit?

"There's... a specific reason he's using it to emulate Rock to Lava, and not just to show people that no matter what spells they vote for I won't punish them for not working together to produce a "super hax combo durhurhur." "

Is this thing going to burn through the floor and incinerate Flan while we're at it? Because if the wizard has some super-secret plan for the lava, we as the wizard should probably know about our own plan. And if there isn't a supersecret plan then it was a waste of a turn AND a 8th level spell

Also, now that I look at it, how the hell did we even imitate a 9th level specific spell, Transmute Rock to Lava, with a generic 8th level Polymorph Any Object?
No. 166208
No. 166209

Lets take her out of the game permanently, she's the biggest threat to us all right now, capable of rendering us completely helpless.
No. 166210
I agree. We shouldn't take any chances.
No. 166212
File 136489402794.jpg - (8.63KB , 266x190 , 1359265308132.jpg ) [iqdb]

Wizard ("you") doesn't actually know how much his form weighs, exactly. When he's feeling badass he pegs it around 60t. When he's getting his shit (moderately) rocked he lowballs. This is highly scientific shit.

This also gives me an easy out when some wiseass calculates the rough density of that much stone based on a Huge dragon's presumed dimensions. WRITING 101
No. 166213
Question. How long does that mansion thing last? Because, if nothing else, it could be a good stopgap for Flandre. Provided it lasts more than 6 hours.
No. 166214
Question, do we have anny kind of penalty to our spell casting?
If not:

Fast cast Grease or web on the vamp lolly (no defense and she will catch on fire, giving us a window of oportunity to work a more powerfull spell

After, evan's tentacles of forced intrusion, the master already alowede some time ago and the wtf will, if Remilia manage to not get enclosures by it, give us more time to act ant to Keine deal with Meiling.

After, one more breath attack them mirph into something else.
I was in doubt if we should turn into something holly or into an aberration (an beholder) I would go for the beholder if we manage to keep it's eyes attacks. Not to mention that it's anti magic field would be useful to negate anny kind of fate attack by the bat girl.
No. 166217

2hrs per caster level, meaning for us at least 30+ hours. However, im not sure we can lock anything in, the spell only mentions locking the gate when you yourself are inside. I also wouldnt necessarily trust it with holding in a flandre that wants to get out, even if we can lock it from the outside.

The food thing leads to an interesting idea though. Assuming at any point any kind of diplomacy is an option (which it presumably isnt, unless somehow killing remilia restores flandres sanity and she isnt completly evil), what about apells that create food or rings of sustenace and such (magic items that create food or sustain you without it). It couldnt be as simple as handing some of those out to any vampires and youkai and the problems solved, could it?
Probably not, it always seemed that in the more cynical versions of gensokyo (i like the friendlier vrsions, no matter how shaky canon for them is) many youkai could get by perfectly fine without eating humans, they just want to.
No. 166219
Been waiting for those questions! Answers when I get home from work.
No. 166220
No killing humans, he has a moral code. Also the less permanent damage we do the less likely Reimu is to paste us.
No. 166221
Speaking of Duke, where the hell did he wander off to? One would think an angelic canine would be a handy guy to have around for facestomping evil vampire bitches.
No. 166222
[X]Quickened Bull's Strength
[X]I wanna cast Iron Body
Shapechange to include the
[X]Redeemed template for radiating an aura of goodness and Protection From Evil
No. 166223
File 136493122251.jpg - (206.09KB , 571x570 , glorious exposition comrade.jpg ) [iqdb]

First, from the SRD:

>Lava or magma deals 2d6 points of damage per round of exposure, except in the case of total immersion (such as when a character falls into the crater of an active volcano), which deals 20d6 points of damage per round.

>Damage from magma continues for 1d3 rounds after exposure ceases, but this additional damage is only half of that dealt during actual contact (that is, 1d6 or 10d6 points per round).

If you don't see where this is going, you will. Soon.

>Also, now that I look at it, how the hell did we even imitate a 9th level specific spell, Transmute Rock to Lava, with a generic 8th level Polymorph Any Object?

Frankly, because Transmute Rock to Lava is shit.

Polymorph Any Object can change a fucking shrew into a dragon, emulate several lower-level polymorph or stone-to-X spells and is insanely adaptable, and 8th level.

Transmute Rock to Lava is 9th level, and... it makes rock hotter. There's absolutely no reason Polymorph Any Object can't do the same thing - and instead of 10 cubic feet, it can affect 100 cubic feet, which is enough to make it fucking useful. And it's not limited to "natural, uncut, or unworked" rock.

With that said, lava is awesome, because it's lava, and casting it over someone's head is still nasty (which is what you just did,) and that's cool, but you just can't justify the existence of Transmute Rock to Lava in the same story as Polymorph Any Object, because no wizard capable of making a 9th level spell would be stupid enough to create the former when the latter's well-known. And it even functions similarly; the lava won't be permanent unless its actually cast on stone of some sort, given the way Polymorph Any Object works. This is important, because lava that will eventually revert is technically magical, but lava that is permanently lava is now ordinary, non-magical, and thus not subject to many anti-magic defenses. And unlike Rock to Lava, Polymorph Any is close range and subject to spell resistance, so it's still pretty balanced to use it that way.

And Transmute Rock to Lava is just bad. Did I mention that?
No. 166224

Hold that thought.

>Mordenkien's Thunderdome

The spell you want is: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/maze.htm

But you (probably) won't have to worry about Flandre in this fight.

No. 166225
[X]Save that for Reimu.
No. 166227

Nothing ensures that an enemy is dead like jumping into a large amount of lava with them. In this case biting her torso and diving should ensure complete destruction. Unless DnD vamps have some bullshit revival skill.
No. 166228
>bullshit revival skill

D&D vamps have indeed. Unless you kill them in some specific ways (stake trough heart, sunlight or running water) reducing the to 0 hp merely turns them into a cloud of gas that can retreat to their grave/coffin and regenerate there. However, if you either destroy their coffin and kill them before they can get/bind themselves to a new one (takes 3 nights) or catch them there in the hour it takes to regenerate there, or somehow prevent their gaseous form from reaching the coffin, that does it.

However, how exactly touhou vampires in general and remilia specifically work (standard vamps they arent. in that regard is pretty much unknown to us and the MC, and probably up to the author, touhou canon being vague in that regard as far as i know.
No. 166229
There are a couple varieties of D&D vampires, but killing them can be a bitch to accomplish. Some vampires dissolve into mist and go back to their coffins to recover when their HP becomes 0, some can only be killed in sunlight, or with holy spells, and with some varieties even stabbing a vampire in the heart with a wooden stake won't permanently kill them until you destroy the body. Honestly, it depends a good deal on what sort of vampire Remilia is, but the one thing we the readers/voters do know that she is weak to sunlight. However, MC Wizard does not know that, but he can generally assume that if it's a vampire it's not going to handle sunlight well.

Honestly, I think we're better off trying to deal Holy damage here.
No. 166232
Well, Remilia can't/has difficulty entering direct sunlight, as evidenced by the Red Mist incident, and her dependency on a parasol.

Perhaps bringing her to 0 HP and exposing her to direct sunlight will be enough to do it? Ripping the roof off the mansion should suffice.
No. 166235

Problematic is if shes something like that vampire lord template thats floating around. There you have to:
Kill, somehow, with mist escape possibility as above, only they can have many coffins.
Then, cut the head of the body
Put a stake trough the body
Burn body and head sepeartely
Scatter ashes of body into running water
Mix ashes of head with holy water.
Bury that on holy ground.
If you get any of that wrong theyl be back in short order.

And even then, if someone digs up the holy water, dries of the ashes, and reinfuses them with negative energy... bam, look whos back.

How to truly kill them? Not. As written, THERE SIMPLY IS NO WAY.

But agree, that sunlight is a good idea. Frankly, confronted with something thats vampirelike but exact properties unknown, we should probably just throw all common vampiric weaknesses at her (sunlight, positive energy, running water, garlic, holy stuff, silver...) until something sticks.
No. 166236
I'm surprised no one told you this: Using a name all the time and an e-mail address is highly discouraged. And thinking a name makes your opinion better is very stupid thinking.
No. 166238
I believe that it's tolerated for anon to take on a name if he fits two criteria simultaneously, and not independently:

1.He has something insightful to say within the thread, which is vindicated by experience/credentials that he has in the matter.
2.He has written a story before on this site.

Since >>166235 clearly fails the second criteria, he'll be innately be seen as a pompous poster whose ego is so large he believes that he deserves to have a name over the myriad of other posters on this story, which probably include other experienced writers and long-time lurkers. Yes, this is an extremely contemptuous statement, but it's one that probably holds true for the readers on this site in general.

tl;dr: Giving yourself a name just makes you seem arrogant. Just don't do it.
No. 166240
Perhaps we can Gate her into the Abyss? Or maybe the Positive Energy Plane, where she'll almost be instantly annihilated?
No. 166244
Judging from the fact that you two were the first to mention it...
No. 166246
According to the 3.5 Draconomicon, "regular" Huge dragons weight about 10 tons, and reading their description, it looks like Pyroclastic Dragons just *look* like they're made of lava and cracked obsidian, thanks to the coloration of their scales.
No. 166248
File 136497212795.jpg - (313.13KB , 860x860 , 37a8fb153317733492c5d928f4ca97f6.jpg ) [iqdb]
If we have time, Haste+Iron Body. Speedy iron melty dragon.
Priority: [x] Batgirl
No. 166251

Ok, sorry, didnt know this, gonny be happily anonymus from now if thats... thought it was just courtesy or something. from what i could determine it was just..ah forget it. Did i come across as arrogant?
If so, no intention, im maybe just more used to boards were constantly being anonymus is seen as... oh who cares
No. 166253
Please just read the sticky on /gensokyo/.
No. 166255

I had read that, i thought.. oops. Well sorry.
No. 166258
Save or dies won't fucking work because that'd be anticlimatic. This is a story first, with a setting second, and a RP game last. The story aspect matters.
If I were the DM, I'd make sure that the vampire made its save until, say, round 10 or so.

Besides, if you want to deal real damage like real men, you go...

No. 166259
real wizards rely on save-or-dies that don't have a save component. Shapechanged 12-headed pyrohydra + wraithstrike, for example.
No. 166261
We don't really hate you for giving yourself a name. It's just that if every lurker here used a name when they post, this site might degenerate into a bunch of kowtowing towards the long-time lurkers and writefags, since their prominence might influence others to make the same judgement as they did.
No. 166266

No. 166268
File 13650044226.jpg - (16.58KB , 300x213 , chenhonk.jpg ) [iqdb]
"Wraithstrike", huh? I haven't heard of that one, I wonder what that spell does.
>Assassin/Sorcerer/Wizard 2: While this spell is in effect, your melee attacks are resolved as melee touch attacks rather than normal melee attacks.
>2nd Level Wizard Spell: Ignore AC for 1 round
why is WotC so bad at game balance
No. 166269
Being fair, touch attack still have to deal with the dex bonus to AC, and given that these are touhous, frilly dressed princesses that they are, Remillia was probably unarmored other than said dex bonus to begin with.
No. 166274
Furthermore, if other Touhou canon is to be believed, Touhou vampires are not, technically speaking, undead, but are in fact the same creature type as oni. (Not ogre mages or the variety of oni from Oriental Adventures, either.)

...So anything specifically targeting undead won't work, although targeting sunlight vulnerabilities should work reasonably well.

The fact that this poor idea has been posted twice annoys me. So, I will deconstruct it for you, with mathematical support.

Turning into a hydra might work against your average monster in D&D 3.5, considering its predilection for low touch attacks. It wouldn't be much more efficient than spellcasting. Assuming a twelve-headed Hydra and a miss only on a natural 1, it would do an average of 119.7 points of damage per round, which is comparable to that dealt by Disintegrate on a failed save, but not more than a well-optimized Barbarian can do.

Remilia Scarlet is not even remotely your average D&D monster, however.
DR 10/silver and magic makes this tactic ineffective even against D&D vampires. The attack will do an average of 1.5 damage per head, for an average of 17.1 damage per turn, thoroughly ineffective considering a vampire has fast healing 10.
Furthermore, such a success rate with either the pyrohydra's bite or its fire breath is thoroughly impossible against Remilia specifically. Since she's a playable character in at least one bullet hell game, we can conclude that her touch AC and reflex saves are extremely high and that she probably has Evasion.

So, no, turning into a hydra of any sort would be a terrible tactic in this scenario or any involving a vampire, and would possibly lead to getting Wizard killed, since the hydra's heads don't adjust their HP to match the shapechanger's, and you still die if all your heads are severed and the stumps closed.

Spell Turning, by its description, only works on spells. I assume Wizard knows this.
Flan's destruction power is innate.
The only creatures that I can think of that have spells as innate racial abilities are some of the more powerful Good-aligned outsiders, which Flandre is most decidedly not one of; furthermore, it doesn't resemble any spell I've ever seen.
Therefore, it is infinitely more likely that any attempt to deflect it with Spell Turning will end in Wizard being blown to smithereens.

I'd not bet on even an Antimagic Field being an effective defense against her power, although Wizard doesn't have an in-universe reason not to.

On a metagame level, canon Remilia is capable of turning into a huge swarm of bats and transforming back from any one of them, and doesn't require a coffin to sleep in, not being undead. I don't know what this evil Remilia can do with regards to regeneration, but I'd expect that killing her isn't as straightforward as killing a D&D vampire.
No. 166278
>The only creatures that I can think of that have spells as innate racial abilities are some of the more powerful Good-aligned outsiders

And Dragons, and Mind Flayers, and Ethergaunts, and...
No. 166279
Touhous. Posing a genuine challenge to a high level D&D wizard with narrative license.
No. 166281
In one of the previous threads, I think it was mentioned that Wizanon took Arcane Strike. This shit is rather mediocre without it, but Arcane Strike means we could sacrifice the rather useless Iron Body for +8 hit/+8d4 damage PER HIT for a single round. Redo your math with that.

I can't remember if we took Extraordinary Spell Aim, but that + Antimagic Field basically snuffs out supernatural DR.

If melee isn't your cup of tea, Chronotyryn from Fiend Folio lets you basically take two full turns, every turn. Has flight and better defenses than a squishy human, too. That's the caster option.
No. 166282
problem with the caster option, of course, is that we're almost out of spells...
No. 166284
meanwhile, considering that Remi isn't undead, Sunburst would deal 6d6*2 = 42 average damage, Reflex save for half. Slightly better than a fireball.

Not to mention it's an 8th level spell that's not on our list.
No. 166285
being a Demon, she likely has natural armor.

...hey, Succubi has it, Erinyes has it, and Angels has it. It's not a stretch.
No. 166286
Natural armor doesn't matter for touch attacks, touch attacks are a case of being exactly what they say on the tin, you just need to touch them to succeed, and natural armor doesn't prevent that.
No. 166287
What about such course:
1) Trap Remilia inside Resilient sphere (4th level evocation so that should not be a problem)
2) Shapechage into Remorhaz. It's huge, has swallow whole and everything that touches it suffers 8d6 fire damage each round (including creatures that it ate)
3)Eat the sphere with Remilia inside.
4)Release Remilia from the sphere.
No. 166288
no, I'm saying the potential natural armor is why you'd bother with Wraithstrike.
No. 166289
And let her tear in to our unprotected insides? Not the best idea in my eyes. Not to mention what might happen if we shift back to something smaller...
No. 166290
There's a metaphor in there somewhere
No. 166291
Theories aside, are you telling me that Remilia Scarlet isn't weak to sunlight? What the fuck are you smoking?

However, I can't argue the fact that the spell is not on the list. The most powerful non-epic anti-vampire spell is not on his goddamn list while attacking directly the most unbalanced vampire the setting has ever known. I guess the MC is sharing your stash.
No. 166292
Remilia is weakened by sunlight, but it does not cause her to lose HP.
No. 166293
you need to read your SRD's.

"All creatures in the globe are blinded and take 6d6 points of damage. A creature to which sunlight is harmful or unnatural takes double damage. A successful Reflex save negates the blindness and reduces the damage by half."

"An undead creature caught within the globe takes 1d6 points of damage per caster level (maximum 25d6), or half damage if a Reflex save is successful. In addition, the burst results in the destruction of any undead creature specifically harmed by bright light if it fail its save. "

Being weak to sunlight, but not being undead, Remilia would take 6d6*2, but not the 18d6 from the bottom half (which, incidentally, is still meh). It also causes blindness if she fails Reflex, which I doubt she will. It's just not that great a spell.

Let's have a little less butthurt here, shall we?

Direct damage spells are a lost cause unless you specifically build for it. At this point, we could either abuse battlefield manipulation, or abuse shapechange.
No. 166294
We really shouldn't have wasted a slot on Iron Body, btw. It's pretty pointless considering you can't cast spells in it. A second PAO would have come in a lot handier.
No. 166305
Step 1. Weaken her with sunlight
Step 2. Allow the ambient heat of all the LAVA EVERYWHERE to roast her to death.
Optional step: Dunk her in LAVA to accelerate the process.

Et voila.
No. 166306
lava doesn't deal as much damage as you'd think. getting splashed deals 2d6. even a full dunking is only 20d6. nor does sunburst have any sort of weakening effect. sure you could argue that thematically it should, but it's all DM fiat from there on.
No. 166312
I think it would cause far more damage due to the giant dragon teeth that would inevitable be involved in said dunking.
No. 166313
Repulsion so Remi can't approach us (Not really mandatory but it will also somewhat protect us from Mailing) and pray she doesn't Gungnir us.
On 2nd round we cast Quickened Web (it only need to hold for 1 round) and Acid fog (Movement in cloud is slowed to 5ft).
Next is Cloudkill followed by Resilient sphere. (As a coup de grace)
No. 166326
excuse me what

even if the spell only gave you 10/adamantine it would still be good, but because of how the spell works it would stack with shapechange meaning you are literally a massive living iron spitting fire dragon.

There are points when spellcasting comes hard to compare.

>only 20d6

That's still quite a bit of damage
No. 166329
defense is less of a worry than DPS. right now, it's all about finishing the fight ASAP. remember: 10/Adamantine does you no good against Flandre.

>only 20d6
we can do better, I'm sure.
No. 166354
Wizanon is an EVA dragon. Shit fluctuates.
No. 166380
The best attack wizannon landed as of now is his breath weapon, so going with that might be the best option. As such, I recommend the following.

1) Surround Remilia as to be able to use all of our dragon forms melee attacks. Go for grapple if possible, attrition and misdirection if not.
2) If grapple succeeds, go for crushing her under your dragon weight directly into lava. If not, continue attacking in melee until breath weapon recharges.
3) Once breath weapon is available, use it again, but this time aim to push her into the lava. If she is already in the lava, keep the breath for disintegration if she goes into mist form or sonic ash if she goes into bat.
4) Take a second to eat Gungnir if she ever drops it.

I don't see any spell being useful with what we have, except spell that would hamper Remilia's mobility. With the current situation, she loses flight she loses the game.

Any anon know a spell like that?
No. 166384
There's Undeniable Gravity, but will save negates.
No. 166385
File 136537314945.jpg - (120.62KB , 400x531 , 75645.jpg ) [iqdb]
[X] INTO SOMETHING HOLY: We could change into a freaking planetar. Regeneratoin, natural weapons, spell resistance, damage reduction, and all sorts of other goodies.
[X] INTO A BIGGER GODDAMNED DRAGON: We could become a RADIANCE dragon. From the same book as the pyroclastic dragon. Force breath weapon. Additional LIGHT breath weapon. Spell likes and so on.
[X] I WANNA CAST A SPELL: Here's a list of every single wizard spell in D&D 3.5.
No. 166389
So I was looking through SPell Compendium and I found a 5th level spell that can adress the issue of vampire regeneration bullshit.

The Spell is called Graymantle, and it requires a Fort Save but what it does is "For the duration of the spell, a living subject cannot regain hit points or ability score points by
any means"

Now its duration is only 1 round/level so that would give us roughly 2 minutes to kill Remilia or Flandre whichever you want to cast it on, but I feel that it works nicely with the general plan of "Force vampire into grapple, dunk into lava, rip off limbs/ hit with breath weapon, Rinse Repeat."
No. 166405
Question, is there a way to open a planar gate permanently?
No. 166408
yes, though it take quite a bit of time.
No. 166409
>You may hold the gate open only for a brief time (no more than 1 round per caster level), and you must concentrate on doing so, or else the interplanar connection is severed.

So how do you do it exactly?
No. 166411
By building a gate rather than casting one.

Magical constructions yo, left everywhere by irresponsible wizards for ages, why not leave your own today?
No. 166413
Gates can be made permanent with a Wish.
No. 166414
We can't do that with Limited Wish, can we?
No. 166418

you can use a second Gate spell to call in a Noble Djinn / Efreet to do the wishing for you, though. In theory. By which I mean it won't fly with a competent DM.
No. 166421
This is relevant.

No. 166429
>implying a competent DM wouldn't be able to handle a post-wish game state

No. 166430
a competent DM doesn't let players get free wishes. A wish should carry a cost comparable to at least 5000xp, no matter how you get it.
No. 166440
It's not a matter of being able, but a matter of being willing. Wish type spells in DnD tend to be like dropping the soap in a prison shower: You're just asking to be raped.
No. 166445
While gating in support would be fun, we're in the middle of a melee with a powerful vampire and her retinue, and we need to resolve this QUICKLY so that we can focus on Flandre when she arrives.

I suggest that we Imprison her. Nothing like an endless eternity trapped in a small 9x9 cell miles underground to get rid of a troublesome person.
No. 166484

You are talking about mass kidnapping and enslaving of super inteligent beings capable of altering reality, which form families and societies, and which are going to be free after spell ends.

Of course at some point you could probably defeat anything city of Brass or any other efreeti or djinn city could send after you, but at that point most likely anything wish can do you can do better anyway.
No. 166486
Uh, I wasn't suggesting that.

I was just thinking of a plan in case we need backup. Disrupting one noble djinni shouldn't be that dangerous.
No. 166489


First, the spell effect can be targeted, which means that it can be destroyed.

Second, even if it couldn't, miles of rock are barely relevant to Flandre, between the Former Hell and her ability to just 'kyuu' herself a tunnel.
No. 166491
Then we'll bury her even deeper. And when she tries to get out, she'll either run out of energy first or she'll get buried alive via falling rocks. Or she can get roasted by lava a la Minecraft.
No. 166494
... You're not getting the scale of her power, are you.

She blew up a meteor as essentially a party trick. Nevermind that she can call on Laeveteinn on a lark. Imprisonment, even if we have it prepared, is just not going to cut it.
No. 166495
But can she use that power indefinitely? That's the question here.
No. 166496
Anyway, if imprisonment won't work, then we'll just have to think up a more... permanent solution.

Like killing her, for example. Or sending her away to some other plane like the Abyss, though I don't know how we're able to do that.
No. 166498
I don't suppose there's a plane full of soft, bleedy things that Wizanon won't mind dieing?
No. 166499
Large part of Imprisonment is that target is also trapped in temporal stasis.

Lower planes are probably full of these

Also if we win this anyone has idea how we will deal with fallout?
No. 166512
Presumably Gensokyo did fine before the Scarlets arrived. Fallout will likely be "What? We don't have to donate blood/round up suicides anymore? Meh, I never liked that bitch anyways."

If we're banishing her someplace I recommend the Brine Flats (endless, turbulent ocean with jagged rocks everywhere, domain of Demogorgon) or Shadowsea (endless ocean full of titanic horrors, and the monstrous Dagon himself.)

Really any layer of the Abyss would do.
No. 166513
That as before various factions rose each keeping each other in check. One of them suddenly going under would likely create a power vacuum that could spell disaster.
No. 166515

She has shown inclinations of being able to use her power as trivially or frequently as she wants; but in the end, it hardly matters how often she can use it.

She is not bound by the spellcard rules. Wizard's violation of them means that she will not follow them either.
She also would want Wizard dead, because he is trying to kill her older sister.

Her power can be used at will at least once quickly; at most, it would take a full-round action, and that is a very generous estimate; it might take as little as a free action. It does not allow for immunities, such as those of undead or those of Prismatic Sphere or Antimagic Field. It might not even be a magic effect, and it's certainly not a spell-like or supernatural ability.

If she shows up, an initiative check is the most that could possibly stand between Wizard and complete annihilation of the body and possibly the soul. Even if he wins initiative and her power isn't an immediate action, he's still dead unless he manages to either dissuade or neutralize her in one round or less.

Before you ask, Antimagic Field or any other abjuration won't work. Antimagic Fields and even Prismatic Spheres are capable of being destroyed; therefore, Flandre can break one in one shot, and depending on exactly how long her power takes, she may have the ability to break Wizard with her other hand in the same round. This is the "hardly" in "hardly matters" above: if Wizard puts such an abjuration up and Flandre breaks it and can't break two things in one round, the next round would be his only chance to escape. Teleportation might or might not work, depending on whether she can still target Wizard's "eye" once he has left. (If she has already started calling it to her hand, it is less likely to work.)

Most things that can be statted can be assigned a CR. Flandre can be statted, but she can't be assigned a CR, because a fight to the death with her is overwhelmingly likely to end in the annihilation of a party of any level. The point where this stops being overwhelmingly likely is the point where the party can neutralize her before she is aware of them, at which point she stops being a challenge at all. At this point the party is most likely employing something like the Immortals Handbook.
No. 166519
You don't seem to know how anti-magic fields actually work.
No. 166520
File 136558219955.jpg - (19.91KB , 500x215 , tumblr_mctzcsIvhp1rya2vro1_500.jpg ) [iqdb]

Antimagic fields can be broken by a disjunction spell. Flandre's powers likely far exceed even a disjunction. Thus she can probably break an AMF with no chance of failure.

Pic related.
No. 166523
I think you're overestimating Flandre's power.

Oh well, we need Deme to clarify this for us. Just like Sakuya.
No. 166525
as I've said before, the trick to fighting beings more powerful than you is:

1. get the drop
2. finish up before they get their turn

this applies to gods, high level casters, little girls that go kyuu, whatever. things is, that sort of thing requires prep time, and we're all out of high-level slots.

so the best bet is to finish the current fight, kill Remi, then gtfo until our slots come back / Keine powers up further due to full moon. oh, also we need to either bring Sakuya with us, or kill her, because she's every bit as deadly to an unprepped wizard as Flan is.
No. 166533
Disjunction spells can't be cast from inside an anti-magic field.
No. 166534
And Flandre could easily exit the field and THEN obliterate everything.

The point is we have to neutralize Flandre immediately, and not allow her any retaliation.

Think we could hit her with Rigid Thinking or some other mental effect? She's already mentally unstable, confusing her would probably prevent her from attacking outright, and would buy time.
No. 166542
It actually might be able to depending on how you read the rules.

An antimagic field suppresses the effects of spells inside of it, but it's still possible to cast the spells. A Disjunction still has a chance to negate such a field, even though it would normally be suppressed completely by the field.

Rigid Thinking is a Cleric spell that hasn't existed since 2nd Edition.

Confusion has a 40% chance of causing the subject to either attack the nearest creature or attack the caster. This translates to a 40% chance of annihilating Wizard or one of his friends.

Dominate Monster might work, but Wizard is out of 9th-level spells and didn't prepare it anyway.

...Pretty much the best move I can see for Wizard in a situation where he's head-to-head with Flandre is one of the Conjuration (Teleportation) spells, and I don't mean targeted on Flandre.

Those estimations fall within the range of possibility of what her power could be. It is not a terribly well-defined power in canon, and it's much safer to overestimate it than to underestimate it, since underestimating it could lead to Wizard being annihilated utterly, while overestimating it could lead to Wizard escaping from a fight he could win.

Here are the endpoints of the range of possibilities.

At the least, with the descriptions we've seen in canon, Flandre's kyuu attack is a spell-like ability with casting time of a full round or more with a limited number of daily or weekly uses, which allows a saving throw of some sort (probably Will, to prevent her from summoning the target's "eye" to her hand), which only works if she has line of effect to the target, which blows the body to pieces and ignores the soul, and which can be blocked by high-level magic such as Prismatic Wall or Antimagic Field.

The worst it could possibly be is an extraordinary or natural ability which can be used as frequently as she wants, at a moment's notice (a free action), which does not require line of effect or allow a saving throw and destroys the body and soul utterly, preventing even True Resurrection from working, and which has associated secondary powers which allow her to detect and kyuu invisible things, such as scrying sensors or wizards.

In all likelihood, it's something in between those two extremes in this particular story.
No. 166545
Well Dismissal also works against Flandre in a pinch, seeing as nobody is actually native to Gensokyo.
No. 166546
Umm ... why WOULDN'T it count as a supernatural ability? It is a Special Ability, which means either Ex, Sp, or Su. And it certainly isn't Ex.
No. 166547
Can Gensokyo itself be dismissed? I mean it is an area that was created.
No. 166548
Pretty sure it qualifies as its own plane. Wizard was flipping out over that in earlier threads.
Something to do with the 5 different afterlifes. Or is it 6? I can't remember.
No. 166549
This might be a bit of an odd question but why are save allowing spells being thrown out?

Flan may be powerful but due to her mental state and insanity she can't have that good of a will save. So the best counter to flan would be a suggestion, which at level 18 is 18 hours of her non-interference. Failing that glitterdust is basically 2nd level magical pepper spray that does not allow a save (except for the blindness which is a will save).

As for Patchy feeblemind is awesome as casters that are not clerics do not stack wisdom or will saves.
No. 166554
Extraordinary abilities are allowed to break the laws of physics. It certainly wouldn't be the first youkai power to break the laws of physics without being considered magic.

Dismissal only affects creatures.

Gensokyo isn't its own plane. It is on a nonstandard Material Plane (including our world), but it's basically a section of that plane protected by an artifact-level abjuration (the Hakurei Barrier).

Some forms of insanity, especially among those that lower Wisdom, cause the creature to use its Charisma modifier on its Will saves instead of its Wisdom modifier, or otherwise get a bonus to Will saves.
We can't know if Flandre has such an insanity or not without testing it. If we test it and she does have such an insanity, there will not be a second chance.
No. 166555
Don't think Flandre would have that high of a Charisma stat.
No. 166556
It'd be higher than Wizard's, that's for sure.
No. 166558
Oh you.
No. 166559
Long post sorry...


Even if worst comes to worst and her charisma stat is used in place of her will that might not be fatal. She does have the general personality of a child which would not help her charisma or will. This stacks with a general lack of experience in any particular form of combat. Which would mean that she is relying on her base stats for her saves, as Remilia allowing Flan to acquire any items that would boost her stats or sr is unlikely.

Failing due to a will save being made is not fatal in this case though, as Flan is not telepathic and does not know that this fight is for keeps. She is bound by spell cards rules in canon and thus is likely to act by them here.
Also, fights in Gensokyo look violent at first so it will take at least a round for her to discern otherwise. So her first response will be to name a spell card not instagib. She will have to enter the room then get told that shit is real before kyuu. This is the time we hit, and hard.

Betting that a wizard at 18th level can cast on a classless vampire with no artifacts is not a sure thing but it is a good chance and might be our best option. Also suggestion into mordenkainen's mansion would be fun.

As for Flan in general she is a problem, but we caught Remilia off guard. This means that she did not prepare ANYTHING for our attack. Flan may be a problem but this is not immediate. She is normally in the basement and that is where she would be during Remilia's plan. Remember this is not a good time for Flan to be out where she might screw up he big sister's plan, after all today is the day that she starts on the final spell to reverse he situation or in her own words; “One this final spell is complete I will answer those insults at last. No more living off the scraps they dole out, no more lurking in this manse like a peasant,".

Given that Remilia kept Flan in a basement for the better part of 500 years, she would be expected to continue to handle things on her own and not call for Flan until the shit REALLY goes against her. Given that she has had Sakuya for an unspecified time and Sakuya can basically teleport she would have no need to prepare a system to call her unstable and untrustworthy sister for help without timehax.
She will have backups and other plans, but not against us and not that involve calling Flan in a critical phase of her plan.

Beyond that Flan in not a factor for now anyway. Patchy is. Taking out a mage is always a good idea and she is both is the room and fully understands what is going on. So Feeblemind her ass into trying to swat us with a book. We have no reason to believe she would stack will, yet.
No. 166560
a save means that if it's failed, nothing happens. Considering that Flan has an instagibbing response, this means you die.

Let's be super-generous and say that she only has a 1/3rd chance of making the save. Would you take a course of action that has a 33% chance of getting yourself killed, without having exhausted all other revenues?
No. 166562
Thought: Flandre's ability requires her to grip the "eye" in her hands and crush it. What we need to do is disable her hands, or perhaps disable her ability to hold the eye.

The Grease spell looks like it might be useful here; there's no save against being affected, just a Reflex save to avoid dropping anything you're holding.
No. 166563
EX abilites are mostly passive though, like spell resistance/immunity and such.

I think it is most likely a Supernatural ability. So, we can still use an antimagic field to combat it.
No. 166570
How about sending Flandre to the Gray Waste instead?
No. 166571
Grease can only coat solid objects.
Flandre's hands are part of a creature, not an object.
The "eye" of an object is not itself a solid object unless you are Flandre Scarlet.
Also, Flandre can still crush things when prone.

"Mostly" doesn't mean "always". A significant number of creatures possess extraordinary abilities which are activated as an action and which have effects that are useful during battle, such as doing damage. The point is not that Flandre's kyuu~ is definitely an extraordinary ability; the point is that that it is a possibility.
In any case, even if an Antimagic Field could suppress her ability to kyuu~, she could still simply crush Wizard to a pulp with her bare hands.

First, how far is the basement from the library? Wizard isn't exactly being quiet here; falling lava is really loud, as is a pyroclastic dragon. Remilia summoning Flandre is less of a concern than Flandre hearing strange loud noises and coming out on her own.

Spell card duels in Gensokyo do not normally involve giant volcano dragons or flooding libraries with lava, nor do they usually involve large-scale property damage of any sort. (Although spell cards have not been shown to cause property damage, danmaku without spell cards in place can inflict catastrophic amounts of property damage; see the final boss of Mystic Square.) It can therefore be quickly deduced that a giant volcano dragon swimming in lava that used to be the ceiling is okay to break.

Also, Flandre isn't a vampire in the D&D sense of the term; she is more likely a high-HD Outsider, Giant, or Monstrous Humanoid. With or without magic items, she is likely to have ability scores high enough for a creature of her level, and she certainly has high physical ability scores including overwhelming strength.
No. 166576
I would disagree, considering how Gensokyo was created its basically a textbook version of a demiplane, so we could banish or dismiss enemies.
No. 166581
The Basement is where Flan is normally and is not near the library in canon. Also the Basement is almost certainly soundproofed so there is that, might not be much help but we do have some time.

Yes, Flan would know something is off but again her first response would not be kyuu as spell card rules are powerful enough and prevalent enough to make Remilia send us off even with the knowledge that she was planning something heretical. Make no mistake if we told Reimu that Remilia was planning something shit would go down. That she did not attack immediately shows that she is either to arrogant to care or she is afraid of a response.

The very fact that spell cards work is odd but weirder still is that we broke them and no harm has yet fallen on us. This does not mean the fight we are currently in, it means that we were guided here by shadowy people we know little about for some reason. The biggest strength we have right now is that Remilia may know that we know but she does not know that our guides knows. Remember this is not a hero storming a mansion and killing a monster, this is an outsider being led into a political killing.

We know that some of the sages know about Remilia's actions and personally directed us to her to finish her off for them. The real danger of this fight is not Flan, as powerful as she is dnd monster who have bs stats can be brought down all the time. She also has NO combat exp so she is not going to use her power to the fullest potential, she is going to play abut violently. The real danger of this fight is that we were sent here with someone we barely know and should not trust to kill someone. Keine becomes near omniscient far too often for this to catch her off guard this badly; something is up.

The real danger of the fight is that everything is too easy. A fight is a foreign dimension against multi-century old demigods should be near impossible not just hard. Flan will not show up this time and is she did her stats do not equal godmode. Those who sent us here knew this and expect us to win or come close. The sages or sage that sent us here to kill them and die. We are being used as a weapon that can be disposed of afterwards. Even is we win then we will have to convince those that come later to "clean up" not to kill us. And that is only if Keine is not a spy.

> 166560

Argh you have a point about the saves. I still like the idea of suggesting Flan go eat ice cream in a summoned mansion as the way to deal with her though as I would not like to condemn her to death without proof of her evil. However, if that will not work the best option is unfortunately exactly what you have suggested: kill or be killed. Then go for something like banishment or level drain.
No. 166583
>The real danger of the fight is that everything is too easy. A fight is a foreign dimension against multi-century old demigods should be near impossible not just hard. Flan will not show up this time and is she did her stats do not equal godmode. Those who sent us here knew this and expect us to win or come close. The sages or sage that sent us here to kill them and die. We are being used as a weapon that can be disposed of afterwards. Even is we win then we will have to convince those that come later to "clean up" not to kill us. And that is only if Keine is not a spy.

Except Yuyuko sent us here to kick Remilia's ass and humble her, forcing her to release her bound ghosts and stop her bid for power.

She did NOT want us to kill Remilia. Our attack is outside of the manipulators' plans. They thought we'd be cowed by the power of Gensokyo's inhabitants to try that, but they forgot that we are a WIZARD, and a PC on top of that.
No. 166593
hard to tell with Yuyuko of all people. I don't think she'd be stupid enough not to realize what kind of guy Wizanon is or what effect her words would have on him.

If it's not her, it's something else that would like to see Wizanon blow up the SDM more or less. The fact that Seiga hasn't been remotely confronted is a worrying sign.

Why hasn't Reimu responded? Reimu hardly responds to incidents until A) they start affecting her or B) stands out enough to catch her notice.

Ghosts going about are not much of anything unusual in Gensokyo so it might not have caught her attention. But since it happened in the village, it got the attention of Keine.

I find it odd that Keine isn't doing much to disaude Wizanon from his course of action as she of all people would know the possible fallout of such an action.

I'd have a dark laugh if everyone's bloodthirstiness wound up killing Youmu.
No. 166597
Keine isn't stopping him because she's just as appalled as he is at what Remilia is doing. All this time she thought there was some peaceful blood-bank deal going on.

As for Reimu, I had a thought. It's kinda weird that she finds the cause of the incident every single time. It's almost like she's *fated* to do so.

Now who might be able to do that, and why might they give Reimu a false belief that all she needs to do is go in a straight line to get to the source?
No. 166605

Preeetty sure it's just her ridiculous intuition. Possibly with a side of making intuitive leaps easier by floating.
No. 166606
>Possibly with a side of making intuitive leaps easier by floating.

That doesn't make se-

Oh wait, nevermind. This is Touhou, where logic is thrown out of the window in favor of "cool" and ridiculous powers.
No. 166607
File 136578735735.jpg - (379.96KB , 1600x1205 , GreatWheelMap.jpg ) [iqdb]
Which is odd, considering that whatever setting Wizard is from uses the Great Wheel cosmology which has at least SEVENTEEN different afterlives.
No. 166608
The number wasn't the issue, it was the fact that none of them were connected to any of the great wheel afterlives in anything resembling a tangible manner.
No. 166609
I wish we'll get to explore the Outer Planes in this story. I like them in NWN (yes, I know we only get to visit Baator there) and I like them even more after reading the Planescape books.

This has little chance of happening though since the plot has nothing to do with the Outer Planes at all.
No. 166612
>take Keine on a date around the planes

Fuck yeah. Omakes perhaps?

Drop Nitori off in Mechanus, show Byakuren the way to Limbo, hook Tenshi up with Mt. Celestia, and take Yukari to Sigil and yell "Look everyone, the god of portals is back!"
No. 166613
>Talking about Gods
It's like you want to die or something.
No. 166616
>hook Tenshi up with Mt. Celestia
And witness the hilarious image of her being chased off the plane by a horde of Archons because she's neither Lawful nor Good.

>Drop Nitori off in Mechanus
Eventually, she'll make the plane her home because she's just that curious about how the gears work, even though no one has ever managed to do so.

Haha, yeah, Sigil hates gods. Clerics are utterly powerless there.
No. 166617
File 13658308995.jpg - (731.56KB , 700x939 , The_Lady_of_Pain___Planescape_by_Merinid_DE.jpg ) [iqdb]
Which makes me wonder. Who would win in a fight? Flandre or the Lady of Pain? Or while I'm on the subject... Yukari or the Lady?
No. 166618
No. We shall have no powerlevel debates that are not directly related to the story.
No. 166619
There's been many a thread about this.

Let's just say that either would win on their own home plane.
No. 166620
Well what if we some how moved Flandre into Sigil. We can't planeshift her there, but...
No. 166622
it never happens, like all other X vs Lady of Pain fights. the Lady never leaves Sigil, and anything capable of being a pain (hahaha) can't get in.
No. 166624
My idea was to go there and bring a lot of attention to Yukari to get the Lady to kill her for us.
No. 166630
That's a good way to get Keine out of a home at best, at worse it'd be a mass slaughter as the barrier goes kaput.
No. 166639
>Good idea
>Anything involving the Lady

And that was your first mistake.
No. 166641
Ummm... Deme? This may sound a bit whiny, but could you give us an E.T.A. for the next update. I'm starting to get impatient.
No. 166645
First off, if you're not making a vote, put sage in the email line so that it doesn't bump the thread. Otherwise people get excited because they think there's an update. It's just politeness.

Secondly, Demetrious is known for going AWOL for long periods of time with no explanation.
No. 166647
This thread is far beyond autosage so it doesn't matter whether he sages his post or not.

Oh, and Deme just posted recently in /blue/.
No. 166663
Go nag him on irc because he's busy talking and not writing and having a life.
No. 166667
/tg/ has found that the best way to get Deme to write is to send him gifts that are awkward to explain to his family when he receives them.
No. 166669
Said life often includes college and work. And a small bit of avoiding people who do nothing but pester him for updates.
No. 166684
Didn't they send him a Sakamoto figurine and a dakimakura?
No. 166687
Yes, both of which he was forced to open in front of his family, with recordings because /tg/ is evil like that.

You can see how dead his eyes are in the second video.
No. 166690
I must request a link.
No. 166692
>forced to

He knew very well what was in the first one.
No. 166693
Yeah, but I think SolusLunes made him open it in front of his sister and grandmother anyways.
No. 166699
>his sister
>his grandmother
You know, I don't actually think she was there for either of those. Definitely not the pillow, but I'm not entirely sure of the Mio figurine. The Mio thing he made a point of to wait for me so that he could open it and be videotaped.

The pillowcase thing, I will admit, I enlisted the aid of his mother to intercept the package for me, so he wouldn't see it before I got the chance to head over there.
No. 166742
File 136625792714.jpg - (8.31KB , 197x256 , lady of pain.jpg ) [iqdb]
Yeah, let's leave the Lady of Pain out of this. Bad things tend to happen to those who try to get the best of her.
No. 166821
No. 166822
knock it the fuck off; it's pointless as this is LONG past the autosage point.
No. 166835
It's a good habit to build and keep.
No. 166838
Wrong, permanent stuff get reverted in antimagic fields, only instantenous stuff, which poa isn't, don't get reverted.
No. 166855
There is one way that we could fight Flandre, perhaps. In most depictions that I've seen, Flandre requires at least line of sight to what she wishes to destroy. Why not, then, employ invisibility?
No. 166917
She does require line of sight. But the "eyes" of things that she sees and crushes to break them are normally invisible to anyone and everyone else anyway. It's not certain, or even likely, that invisibility spells will hide them from her. So, if she can locate an invisible Wizard, she can break him.

I wouldn't expect a high-power outsider-like vampire to have sufficiently dull senses that Wizard will be able to slip below them on an untrained Move Silently check (since he doesn't seem like the type to spring for cross-class ranks in that particular skill), much less when casting spells with verbal components. This goes so much more for a dragon Wizard that it's not even funny, since a half-deaf wombat could tell where he was.
No. 166954
Update when? I'm getting tired of all this "Flandre can't be beat" posts.
No. 166967
I'm vastly tired all this thinly veiled HFY.
No. 166983
What are you doing here then?
No. 166984
Oh, not this shit again.

Keep your whining on /blue/, will ya?
No. 166987
I was reading this story long before you crawled out of your basements. And I'm hoping that this chapter ends in such a manner that ceases to be 'HFY' fodder.

I would have left the post at that if not for the butthurt you and that other guy are spouting.
No. 166989
>I was reading this story long before you crawled out of your basements.

And that makes you, dare I say it, speshul?

Get your head out of your ass.

>I would have left the post at that if not for the butthurt you and that other guy are spouting.
>I'm vastly tired all this thinly veiled HFY.

Yep, definitely not a case of the pot calling the kettle black here. No, sir, not at all.
No. 167064
I AM NOT DEAD. Sorry for the weeks without update; I work two jobs, one of them is on-demand call-in and I've been called in a lot this last month. And I usually work that after my gas station job, so I've been pulling 12 hour days sometimes. Atop that, pollen counts are back and are fucking me up something awful.

Votes are tallied and updates are outlined, I just need some quiet time to write them. For instance, I'm phoneposting from work right now.

No. 167183
I'll wait for you forever.
No. 167248
File 13671758899.png - (31.01KB , 600x700 , keep-calm-op-will-deliver.png ) [iqdb]
No. 167731
No. 167737
File 136789801866.gif - (972.92KB , 312x213 , AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.gif ) [iqdb]
No. 167812
Is it tomorrow yet?
No. 167814

By which I mean my ancient laptop's software literally exploded and the scattered bits caught fire. And my desktop is down, pending RMA'd RAM.

Thankfully I backed up to a google doc; so its a delay, not a Megatokyo progress update. I might just buy a bluetooth keyboard for my phone and do it that way.

No. 167816
Does everyone buy computers from Shady Akbar?
No. 167817
Nah, just Deme.

Because it's the cheapest he can get.
No. 167821
He's not the only one on this site that had their computer go out on them in comical fashion, SystemFailure (writer of the Eldest Scarlet) seems to be a regular customer of Akbar's judging from how often it happens to him.
No. 167823
Well, his name is... SystemFailure!

No. 167842
It's better: he's named himself "SystemFailurevN", where N is the number of times his computer's exploded on him.

He's currently SystemFailurev5.

On a side note, how does your software explode?
No. 167898
File 136809128242.jpg - (31.80KB , 700x525 , backup.jpg ) [iqdb]
And this is kids, why we always do backups when we finish something.
No. 168078
File 136823422675.jpg - (101.31KB , 747x521 , 1330913460005.jpg ) [iqdb]


>five weeks since last update