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8812 No. 8812
With the amount of time I've been spending on this site, I feel that it could use a board or archive for the cultural aspects. I.E. A summary or chronology about the massive shitstorms over GH, who the heavyweight writefags are, what pisses people off, etc. It could help newcomers get used to the environment (the wonderful, positive atmosphere and friendly people), and more importantly, influence new posters to not repeat the bad things that happen in the past.

So what do you think Anon?

No. 8813
>Heavyweight writefags

Uhh, what does that mean? Fat writefags?

Jokes aside, I think we should make a wiki instead.
No. 8814
That's a very good idea. People are always saying to lurk more, but sometimes, it's just impossible. For example, as far as I know, it's impossible to find anything about J to E and his metaknight thing, since his story was erased from the archive. So, hey, go on.
But don't do it alone, we need something objective, not your opinion about past events.
No. 8815
Or people could just lurk.
No. 8816
Nah. Those heavyweight writefags will rewrite history to manipulate newfags.
That won't work. History is too easy to manipulate.
No. 8817
>it's impossible to find anything about J to E and his metaknight thing, since his story was erased from the archive.

http://www.touhou-project.com/th/res/86520.html

Everything seems to be there.
No. 8818
Yeah, maybe what 8813 said instead, a wiki. The thing is, most visitors of this site probably have jobs or school, so they don't have enough free time to slog through boards and archives looking for the referenced material. A wiki or something similar would help a lot.
No. 8819
>>8818
I dunno, starting a wiki to talk about writers is like calling for trolls and attention whores.
No. 8820
I also support the idea of a wiki, as one who's been lurking for quite a while and is still unfamiliar with a lot of the old stories, owing to just how many there are.

How would we go about getting more support for this and eventually setting one up?

>>8819
True, but most of that should be remediable with proper moderation. A general policy of trying to keep an impartial tone might help too.
No. 8821
>>8820
We could either whore this idea on IRC to try to get some people to notice or just keep bumping this thread. People check /gensokyo/ quite often I believe.
No. 8822
Funny, after reading this thead, I decided to check THP's very first story, Waking Up in Gensokyo.
And it's stalled. How prophetic that THP's first story never ended properly.
No. 8823
But honestly, how can you end a story like that?
No. 8824
>>8823
With a big, huge "and they lived happily even after all that"?
No. 8843
>>8822
Umm, why does it say "stalled"? It's not like the writer will return one day to finish the story.

Just change it to "abandoned".
No. 8845
I support this idea. Leave it so the newbies can know where they've wandered to
No. 8847
I support that idea too. Newbies won't be able to say "too complicated didn't lurk" any more.
No. 8860
So, who's ready to start? We need to be objective when speaking about writers and some posters, but we still can start explaining how THP started, right? That won't trigger discussions and/or shitstorms.
No. 8887
>>8860
Someone who's been here since before the /jp/ migration would be ideal for writing this, I think.

Someone reasonably respected, go and whore this on IRC, please?
No. 8900
Since nobody is getting this started, I'll try with what I know.

Touhou-Project was created because of a single fanstory, called "Waking Up In Gensokyo". The story, started on /jp/, became very popular. So popular that, in the end, everyone related to that story was banned. Touhou-project was created to host such stories, as an imageboard. This is why there's still an 'Anonymous' mentality.

But I really don't know much. Someone should really get Scorn, Vodka, or another elderfag to explain it better than I do.
No. 8901
>>8900
>Touhou-project was created to host such stories, as an imageboard. This is why there's still an 'Anonymous' mentality.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. True enough, YWUiG started on /jp/, that much you got right. At one point, though, one of the mods got buttragnaroked about its growing popularity and unleashed the banhammer on GM’s unsuspecting behind. GM moved the story onto a hastily thrown-together forum, which she didn’t find a very satisfying medium (and neither did anyone else, really). Someone went on to scout out a place we could migrate to. THP was found: at the time a minor (40-so posts) Touhou imageboard hosted by Holy, the (former?) owner of DoujinStyle (renowned for being a reliable host of all the Touhou games and translations). We swarmed the place like an unholy cloud of weeaboo, LAAAAAKE-screaming bees and soon settled in for good. MiG happened, then SHaG, then the LAs (Forest LA, Shrine LA, Hakugyoukurou LA, I believe in this order) Some few years later DoujinStyle went tits up; THP had been experiencing a space shit ton of random downtimes anyway, so someone (I’m not clear on this) went ahead and hosted their own TH-P. This time with a hyphen in the domain name.

Mark you, I was absent during some of those times, so my knowledge may be lacking. Anyhow, you’d best be off asking someone in IRC. Although knowing the folks (hi!) they won’t take kindly to an idea of a THP Wiki. It smacks of circlejerk, if you don’t mind me sayian’.
No. 8902
>>8901
Oh, so we boarded the website instead of creating it? I didn't know that! Thanks YAF, you're reliable and not a faggot for once.

>GM
Who?
No. 8903
>>8902
Gensokyo Man, the writer of YWUiG.
No. 8904
>>8901
>one of the mods got buttragnaroked about its growing popularity and unleashed the banhammer on GM’s unsuspecting behind
As I recall, it was the users of /jp/ that didn't care for YWUIG and all those WHERE IS GM?! threads complained to the mods until they deleted her thread. She recreated it and got banned.
No. 8905
>>8902
Obviously I wasn’t trying hard enough.
>>8904
I stand corrected. Still, one way or another, someone got chestnut shells up their butt end. I was right at least in that respect. I usually am.
No. 8906
'Someone got mad at something' is not exactly a daring guess where the internet is concerned.
No. 8907
>>8903
Oh, I though it was Game Master.
No. 8908
>>8906
Which is why I’m normally right about that sort of thing. You’re giving away my trade secrets, man.
No. 8910
>>8816
This period. It doesn't help that what history exists is heavily colored by those writing it.

After all what's common difference between a revolutionary and a terrorist? The opinion of the historian.
No. 8911
>>8902
YAF is always a faggot, he's just a faggot that can be helpful and/or have good points when he's not trolling (and even when he is, sometimes).
That aside, I concur: thanks for the history lesson, YAF.

>she
So THP's very first story disproved there being no girls on the Internet, huh. Do we have any other female writefags? I can't remember seeing any pronouns besides "he".
No. 8912
>>8911
Uhh, Kriss?
No. 8915
>>8901
A wiki would be horribly pretentious, that is correct. I thought that something small like a /words/ that would be dedicated to cultural and historical happenings on this site, probably with someone reliable guarding it.
>>8910
We don't have to agree who's the good guy, all we have to agree is that there was a war/shitstorm and that newfags should know about it.
No. 8916
>>8915
>someone reliable
Kapow?
No. 8917
>>8916
If he can be objective, yeah.
No. 8918
>>8917
He's always objective.

He never participates in this board after all. Spends all of his time on the Cabal.
No. 8919
>>8918
Someone said something about a cabal?
No. 8921
We need someone new and uninfluenced by anyone to cover history as to keep it pure and to be considered truthful.
No. 8923
>>8921
So, history should be covered by someone that doesn't know any of the history?
No. 8924
History should be covered by someone universally known as objective. And that's no easy task here.

Either that, either by a bunch of people.
No. 8925
>>8923
I mean someone that reads up on it but at the same isn't influenced by say... the cabal.
No. 8926
>>8925
>He takes that cabal shit seriously

You are painfully retarded.
No. 8927
>>8924
The problem is that there really is no "objective" history. Sure, people can usually agree on a rough general chronology, but when you get into things like causation no one agrees.
Unfortunately for all involved, a history composed merely of a timeline will be both painfully boring and borderline useless.
The closest we can get to an "objective" yet still useful history is probably to tell what concretely happened and then discuss the resulting "sides" and their respective takes on the event and its repercussions, either leaving the final interpretation of the events up to the reader or again offering each side's analysis of the history.
No. 8928
>>8927
There's a simple way to be objective.
For example, when J to E joined, it apparently escalated somehow into a huge shitstorm.
Well, in this case, we don't have to tell who started it or why, we can just say that there was a shitstorm, give some details about who left and who's still here. We don't need to tell everything, we just need to make sure that people understands when Anon compare a writefag to J to E or a poster to Wiseman. After all, we're just reporting facts, like "He joined, and started a very controversial story, thus creating unsatisfaction, the whole event escalating into a shitstorm", instead of saying "and then that faggot joined and, since his butt was itching from all the dicks he got rammed up his ass, he decided to start the worst fanfic we ever saw, with enough plot holes to host a gang bang by itself, and then Anon came a lot and decided that he needed more dicks up his ass that he already got".
No. 8929
>>8928
Don't forget Metaknight.

That guy is practically a meme for bad crossovers here.
No. 8930
>>8929
I think that, while keeping an objective tone, we can say that JtoE is the reason why crossovers are not popular.
No. 8931
>>8930
>crossovers
>not popular on THP

You sure we're talking about the same website?

'Cause there are a lot of popular crossover stories here.

Heck, Patchy Quest is still running and it's updated daily. It's a goddamn crossover with Harry Potter.

The only thing JtotheE did was making Nintendo games hated on this site.
No. 8932
>>8931
>implying Patchy's Quest is popular
Bitch please. The only people liking this story are SpaceBattles' neckbeards.
Those crossovers stories are bringing their own readerbase.

Like Demetrious' story, it became popular when it was linked on /tg/, before that it was pretty calm. When fa/tg/guys joined, it became a retarded stories with giant walls of words to explain why Wizard is stronger than anyone else.
No. 8933
>>8932
It's actually pretty popular among normal THPers too, and some of which actually dabble decently in DnD.

Kahi's fanbase are mainly composed of spacebattles folk and some people from /th/.
No. 8934
>>8933
And this is why we have the "all /th/ posters are idiot" cliché.
No. 8935
no true scotsman~
No. 8937
>>8932

Actually, I read both stories, and I've been here since the site came into existence. You should not assume where people are coming from and use that as evidence. You know NOTHING of where ANYONE here is from, and the only tool you have is assumption (the tool of a fool).

People are of many and varied interests. Don't assume that they are going to match yours.

As for the DnD story, Wizard being powerful wasn't why it started going downhill. I've been losing patience with the patchouli story as well, but that's just my opinion, and I'm not going to be an asshole and assume that people who are still enjoying it are idiots.
No. 8938
>>8937
Don't get mad, I'm saying that some people are ruining the fun for everyone else by bringing their neckbeardy. Stay calm, okay? Stay cool.
No. 8940
So, we already know about THP's creation, but is there something else that we need to write here? We're talking about THP's story, so, I don't know, should we speak about famous stories? About that, I always wondered what are the famous stories around here.

Inb4 "any finished story is a famous story and should be read"
No. 8941
>>8940
The first ones. Everything else is pretty much your personal opinion.
No. 8942
>>8941
Reading MiG should be a requirement for newcomers.

Raging on it is optional though.
No. 8943
>>8916
Aah, I miss the old days where the IRC was actually used to discuss THP stories, not for blogging about your personal life.

Like with MiG back then. Anon threw out their crazy theories and plans on the IRC. Truly that's how a CYOA should be.
No. 8946
>>8943
I miss that too. Also how people just seemed to have fun with stories and seemed to enjoy things more in the moment. Granted sometimes it was too silly but everything in moderation and all that.
No. 8947
>>8942
>MiG
Back (insert some large number here) choices.

Also, an IRC log from back then.

<Kapow> kira, are we going to reload from earlier until we get a decent ending
<@Dark_Mercury> Earlier for a decent ending is like, 1/2 way through the game back.
<+Kimeraki> Restart would be more beneficial
<@Dark_Mercury> You could trip the final flag if you went back,
<@Dark_Mercury> BUt it woulnd't get you past the sad end.
<Kapow> well you said "normal end" was available, didn't you?
<@Dark_Mercury> You'd just get 3 in stead of 4
<Kapow> or is that this?
<@Dark_Mercury> I thought it was, but after counting up the weighted flags, you're just shy of it.
<Kapow> jesus christ
<Kapow> well we need to find reisen again, whatever the fuck happens next time
<@Dark_Mercury> normal end would basically be you getting thrown out of gensokyo,
<Kapow> we need to AVOID LUNATIC MODE ARC
<@Dark_Mercury> And spending your life trying to get back.
<Kapow> seriously this shit should have been locked until at least the second playthrough
<Terminal-tan> It's going to be difficult to avoid LUNATIC MODE if Reimu threatens Wriggle again.
<Kapow> run into the fucking bushes or something
<Kapow> there was something in the bushes
<Kapow> maybe mystia
<Kapow> we need to find mystia too
<Kapow> any hints as to what the other arcs would be?
<@Dark_Mercury> (9) squad is, Mystia, Wriggle, Cirno, Letty, Chen, and Rumia
<@Dark_Mercury> Keep that in mind.
<Terminal-tan> Next time we don't leave Letty in the freezer and save Mystia from Yuyuko.
<@Dark_Mercury> EX (9) members are the aki sisters, hina and Medicine.

Just for old time's sake.

>>8943
Better doing that than raging at God-knows-what on /blue/.
No. 8948
>>8947
>Kapow
>not admin
Hahahahaha.

Anyway, things were apparently a lot harscher back then. But I have the impression that it was hard to get a happy ending with Kira.
I mean, 3 "normal end" available, and they are quite saaaad ("normal end would basically be you getting thrown out of gensokyo (...) And spending your life trying to get back").
No. 8951
So, what's this about Wiseman? Each time there's a strange wall of text somewhere, people are calling it "wiseman", so what's the real story?
No. 8952
>>8951
Just go look for his story at the storylist.

Also, he's still on IRC if you want to talk with him.
No. 8992
>>8952
Shame on you. This thread is made to avoid the "lurk more" answer, and that's exactly your answer.
No. 8999
>>8992
Oh fine.

Wiseman is that guy who wrote a terrible self-insertion story in the past. Think of your usual FF.net story, only up the arrogance of the male OC tenfold. It's also full of awkward sentences and shaky grammar. Still not as bad as Hartmann's early stories though, in terms of the writing.

Problem is, that guy didn't take well the criticisms given to him, making /blue/ had to act.

Come to think of it, /blue/ haven't done any kinds of lynching in a while. Maybe because their targets have a huge fanbase, unlike the other stories they've lynched before.
No. 9001
>>8999
There we go. Thank you.
No. 9002
>>8999
I would like to see /blue/ lynching Kahi. I can't stand his stories. Always give me neckbeards vibes. And his readers are unable to sage.
No. 9003
>>9002
You can't lynch that guy. He's too popular. His fanbase are practically half of this site's regular readers.

Yes, "regular readers" include people from /tg/ and Spacebattles. Admit it, most of the oldfags are gone.
No. 9004
>>9003
>You can't lynch that guy. He's too popular.
Yeah! So let's go lynch a guy that nobody likes, no matter if his stories are good or bad! Let's be brave, and attack the guy that's walking alone, instead of the shithead that everybody like!
I miss the oldfags.
No. 9005
>>9004
What would that accomplish? Anyone who has 2 neurons to rub together already knows he sucks.
Just hide the threads and move on.
No. 9006
>>9005
But hidden threads are still in THP's bumped threads list, and it annoys me when I see that 3/5 of the bumped threads are Kahi's.
No. 9007
>>9006
Suggestion to the admin. Make hidden threads not appear in THP's bumped thread list.
No. 9009
>>9007
That's a goddamn good idea.
May I dare add another suggestion? Can we configure the 'bumped threads' things so that only the Author's posts nump the thread? I missed several Tenshi Isn't In This Story updates because posters were bumping other stories (and also because YAF sages 75% of his posts).
No. 9012
Also, have threads stay at the bottom of the page when hidden, regardless of bumps.
No. 9013
>>9009
You do know we have a "Watch Threads" function here, right? Or that it allows you to see when a thread has new posts, and how many since you last viewed it, regardless of how many other threads have bumped it down, right?
No. 9014
>>9013
Yeah, but you need to have cookies enabled for that. And I configured my browser to erase every data each time I close it.
No. 9015
>>9014
Well, if missing the occasional update bothers you so much, have you considered not doing that? Perhaps just use a separate browser with cookies enabled that you use only for checking for updates on this site?

It just seems like a much simpler and reasonable solution to your problem than figuring out how to reconfigure the board to make it so threads can only be bumped by the original poster. How would that even work?
No. 9016
>>9015
It's possible, just not simple or a good idea. Pushing hidden threads down to the bottom could be done with Javascript or a greasemonkey script and wouldn't be as complicated.

>Perhaps just use a separate browser with cookies enabled that you use only for checking for updates on this site?
Or just open a tab for every story you want to follow and set your browser to keep tabs from your previous session.
No. 9017
>>8999
Even he agrees his attempt at a story was terrible and would be the first to tell a writer to take note of any criticism, especially if it's in /blue/.

So, what is /blue/ good for if not delivering justice to shitty writers?
No. 9020
>>9017
Raging and insulting pooshlmer. And also Maidens.
No. 9021
Your friendly admin is here to tell you that your suggestions aren't practical/worth doing.

>>9007
The bumped threads is php thing that's dynamically generated while the hide thread function is a cookie for static html. In short, they are wholly unrelated features.

>>9009
Watched threads is your friend, like someone else pointed out. To do something like that automatically (without having an additional identifier field in your post box with a secret code or something) you'd need to match the same IP, name, tripcode or subject line. Not every thread/author necessarily has one of those consistent throughout.

>>9012
Write a script. Javascript will be handy. Steal ideas from the various 4chan scripts perhaps. You could even emulate the filter and filter out all posts by people you don't like. I'm not going to do it, I don't think it appropriate for community like ours.

Also just add the site to an exception for cookies to use the watched threads and whatever else. It's not like there's anything noteworthy we track. Post password, site style and hidden threads are about it.

>>9017
>what is /blue/ good for if not delivering justice
Personally, I think that some of the images in the various image dumps are nice. There's also the occasional good, well-thought out post in discussions.
No. 9023
>>9021
>not worth doing

It's not like you're doing anything else.
No. 9024
Look what I've got!
Install http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/109922, add www.touhouproject.com/* to the included pages, and voila, filter.
No. 9025
>>9021
>Personally, I think that some of the images in the various image dumps are nice. There's also the occasional good, well-thought out post in discussions.

Good point though if /blue/ won't strike then how would we deal with stubborn but bad writers? People might think it's okay to write like that and what quality progress we've made is lost. And there's the possibilities of morons voting to fuck a corpse in Kahi's yukkuri story.
No. 9026
>>9025
I have my own opinions about certain writers, stories and posters on thp. However, I don't think that those personal feelings are entirely relevant here and now. I'm not going to go into 'bad' or 'quality' right now.

What I want to say is that you should just take it easy. There will always be someone upset about some guy or another. The solution to that is to write a better story, or encourage people to read other stories. The userbase is responsible for the content on the site one way or another. Authors can (and should if they feel it's appropriate) veto/ignore stupid votes. Readers can offer advice and, if that's ignored/fruitless, move on if a particular story is bad. It's not like threads are a finite resource.

It's only when someone is truly disruptive, affecting more than just a small space on the site, that there's legitimate cause for concern (ie: spam, every post is a flame, etc). Maybe it's because we're a small community that these issues seem so prominent, but it's not as bad some would paint it, I think. There's a lot of nostalgia as well in the mix.

So, yeah, I wouldn't say that 'bad' writers/posters even qualify as a major concern for the wellbeing of the site.
No. 9030
>>9026
You are somewhat right as most terrible stories aren't that popular at all but there are exceptions, such as JotE, Average Joe and Kahi (and his Spacebattles/ff.net fanbase). These prove to be more of a problem as they ultimately encourage habits and mindsets harmful to normal stories.

How would they be harmful? Their bad judgement en masse derailing things if not outright turning the story into a clone (Like with "On the Business End") An savvy and experienced writer can stop such attempts... but most of our writers are novices who are prone to letting anon walk all over them.

It'll be hard to say we have a standard of quality when we have say terrible excuses for /tg/ fare being popular.
No. 9032
>>9026
THe problem is that THP's readers aren't SpaceBattles's readers.
Kahi's story are apparently very popular in SpaceBattles, and yet the average THP reader doesn't like them.

You can say it's just a matter of opinion, since "good" or "bad" stories are subjective terms.
I disagree. An excellent story is a story well-written, with an interesting plot, such as A Scarlet Stained Memoir, where plot was very interesting.
A good story is a story well-written, but with a poor plot.
And a poor story is a story poorly written, with a poor plot, such as Scarlet Clockwork.

You can decide by yourself what a good story is, it depends if you're interested in the plot, or in the writing style. Do The Right Thing, for example, despite his almost non-existent plot, is still quite popular.
No. 9033
>>9030
I was going to do a lengthy reply but then I realized that I can boil it down to one succinct (if somewhat crude) sentiment; You adapt or you die.

No one is born knowledgeable about things in life. When you write or read a story for the first time, you can't be expected to know everything there is to know about it. Mistakes are to be expected. What's important is having the good sense to know what to do with your new experience. As a reader: do you think that you can say something to make a story better? If so, say it. As a writer: Does having more control over the choices help you? Do that then. Bad habits and bad judgment are only as big as a stumbling block as you want them to be. It's an excuse, a crutch. You need to ask yourself why you're writing/reading. Having the right set of expectations goes a long way in making a story more enjoyable for both parties.

I very much doubt most writers let their fanbases run away with their story most of the the time. Anyone who is really into what they're doing learns how to cope. Hell, if they need a helping hand I know for a fact that there's plenty of people who would give them pointers or advice.

>>9032
>THe problem is that THP's readers aren't SpaceBattles's readers.
Now there's a non-sequitur. Does it matter what group with what fanbase is doing what? Not really, so long as people are still writing stories and reading them. Focus on what's good, put an effort into making things better and I promise that the current bogeyman really won't affect the site on the long run. One insular group attacking another is the wrong kind of elitism, the destructive kind. Lead by example instead of always just bitching about the next polarizing figure.
No. 9037
>>9032
Actually, Kahi's no longer active there. It's mostly populated by Imperfect Metamorphosis fans and the various Touhou/ZnT crossover fans (that popular male Yuuka story and your usual "Touhous get summoned" stories).

Those crossover stories are also acting as gateways to the Touhou fandom. Since they focus more on fanon rather than canon, well, you know what will happen.

Also, I want to bring up this particular post from there.
>Umm, you do realize what 90% of the fandom idea of Alice + Marisa's relationship is right? Touhou pretty much has at least 1 'all-but-confirmed' harems* going on: Marisa, Alice, Patchouli/Koakuma, Reimu, with Rinnosuke (occasionally). A second harem might be occurring with Rinnosuke, Tokiko, and Marisa. Another obvious one is Byakuren's les-ship of love, which is to say, virtually all the main characters from that game. Then there's an 'unrequited love' setup involving Remilia & Sakuya, to say nothing of the Yukari/Yuuka, Yuuka/Tenshi, or Yukari/Reimu stuff. Plus a massive tsundere love/hate couple (Kaguya & Mokou) which is wildly popular at times with various fans.

>And I could always bring up the implied incest couples: Ran & Chen, or Satori & Koishi.
>Then there's the bestiality couples: Satori, Rin, & Utsuho, or Reisen & Eirin.

>Face it, harem antics are pretty much implied from the start of the Windows games, via the fanbase, and have kept right on going & expanding with each new game and the official/semi-official fanbooks. So if you want Touhou without harem stuff....umm...go play the games but remove all the text between the characters (and the endings entirely). Otherwise, it's there.

>Deal with it.

>* - considering it's virtually all over the fanbase, and ZUN isn't saying anything against it...

I hate using the word "secondary", but...
No. 9038
>>9037
>implied incest
>Ran & Chen

Yeah no.
No. 9039
>>9037
>Face it, harem antics are pretty much implied from the start of the Windows games, via the fanbase
If they're implied via the fanbase, then they're not implied in the game.
No. 9040
>>9037
>DEAL WITH IT
When people are using flabby arguments, they're usually also using either "DEAL WITH IT", either "PERIOD". That's a simple way to piss people off by basically saying "I'm right and if you keep arguing you're obviously wrong", since you're closing the discussion on your own accord. And since you're using flabby arguments, people will re-open the discussion and then you'll be able to say "we stopped caring about that, don't be butthurt", or another low insult.
No. 9041
>>9037
That guy reads too many Touhou doujins.
No. 9044
>>9033
>I very much doubt most writers let their fanbases run away with their story most of the the time.

Most newbie writers have the mindset of "anon is always right" and are afraid to say no. It takes an experienced and/or savvy writer to keep anon's impulses in check.

Poor anon control is a factor in the GH Fiasco. And part of the fact Kahi's readers getting so bad is because he shows poor anon control. Sure he does /tg/ style quest threads but you can still exert some sort of control to prevent really stupid shit from getting through.

>>9037
But the damage is already done as his fans are here and generally voting in such ways to make Kahi's stories worse (corpse fucking for the fail!)

But yeah spacebattles is pretty damn dank and a shitty version of /tg/ in some ways (Let's have a build of 9s and 1s!)

Well... people like that are the main reason the term secondary was even coined despite the fact some here rage at it being mentioned.

>>9041
That's common of people like him, the bad fans. These days accessible canon information is plentiful, leaving little excuse for someone going full fanon.

I certainly do hope the person in question doesn't have influence here as he'd threaten to regress character trends back to the early THP days (Bitchy Reimu, Obsessive Alice, etc)
No. 9046
>>9044
>Most newbie writers have the mindset of "anon is always right" and are afraid to say no.
They’re afraid of losing their readers. You can’t blame them. What they’ve got to realise is if a person likes a story, they will continue on reading it even if the writer dismisses one of those wacky ideas they randomly throw out in a thoughtless discussion. “Yeah, that’s cool, but I had something else in mind” does hurt, but not all as much as you’d likely believe. And if someone drops a story because its author won’t abide by their every wish, well... do you really want that person participating in your thing?
Yes, I’m aware some would all the same, but it’s still the cheapest kind of attention, that sort, and you should be ashamed of yourself if you find it satisfactory. A reader—nay, person—who can take a “no” and live it down is a cool dude in any decent writer’s book. One that can’t is a butt monkey and should go back to sucking on barely ripe bananas. Aim for the best, chaps, not for the butts.
No. 9047
>>9044
>And part of the fact Kahi's readers getting so bad is because he shows poor anon control. Sure he does /tg/ style quest threads but you can still exert some sort of control to prevent really stupid shit from getting through.

I'm pretty sure he's vetoed shitty ideas in Patchy Quest by having the main character mention that it's a bad idea in their internal monologue. In Doll's Quest bad ideas usually get shot down the second Tabuki opens her mouth about them. Would you rather he just outright say “no don't do this thing it's a bad thing” whenever someone votes for something silly?

Or are you just bitching about how he handles City Quest? If so, it's been kind of obvious for a while now that the main character is either insane or possessed by something insane(more likely the former). I'll agree that story gets uncomfortably weird at times, but it's clearly meant to be that way. Its about yukkuris for fucks sake, what did you expect?
No. 9049
>>9044
>Most newbie writers have the mindset of "anon is always right"
Funnily enough some of the examples of poor writers mentioned earlier in this thread were, if anything, arrogant.

People who write need to define the scope of what they're doing and how much they're willing to see others contribute to it. You learn from experience, watching what other writers do or by simple asking those who have already been through it. We've been around for 4 years, ffs. Plenty has happened. It's your own fault after a while if you're not 'savvy' enough.

>And if someone drops a story because its author won’t abide by their every wish, well... do you really want that person participating in your thing?
I cannot agree enough with >>9046 there.

It really seems to me that your problem is mostly against an individual or two than the whole system. Getting validation that x guy sucks or y story does is not going to change the fact that there really is no epidemic of authors getting sidelined. Sometimes certain individuals have their own issues that inhibit them from perhaps reacting as ideally as we might like to stupid stuff but most people learn soon enough.

So yeah, my advice once again is to read and encourage others to do so for what you think are good stories or write them yourself. After a while you won't even notice the poorer stuff, I guarantee it.
No. 9050
>>9037 
Christ.  Could you provide a link to that post?  I want to see if anyone tried arguing with that moron.

>>9047
>City Quest
>it's been kind of obvious for a while now that the main character is either insane or possessed by something insane
>I'll agree that story gets uncomfortably weird at times, but it's clearly meant to be that way. Its about yukkuris for fucks sake, what did you expect?

Yes, the MC is almost certainly possessed, but neither that nor the story about yukkuris means that one should expect the MC to fuck pretty much all of them.  (Including the blob ones, or the ones that think of the MC as their father.)  Or necrophilia.  Or  quadriplegic necrophilia.  Or cats being fine too.  Et cetera.

From what I can tell, Kahi's caught on to the fact that the majority of that story's remaining fanbase are retards thinking only with their dicks, and has been indulging them by making 90% of the activities pastry fucking.  With increasingly ridiculous / minimal justifications, as well (hurr we're poisoned and it makes us aroused and needs to be sucked out)  
Still, it's his fault for sexualizing them in the first place, by having an Alice come on to the MC and having a large number of other yukkuris attracted to him.  I've been starting to think Kahi likes writing yukkuri sex scenes as much as most fans like reading them.

Haven't tried dissecting Patchy or Doll's Quest yet, but thought I'd look at CQ to get an idea of why Kahi's stories are so hated.  I found more than enough reasons.

But you know, >opinions.
No. 9054
Personally I don't get why people dislike Kahi's stories so much. They entertain me, so I look at them as entertainment.
Perhaps one of you could enlighten me?
No. 9055
>>9054
I've only read Doll's Quest and from what I know his story should've been a fangame instead.

I'm serious. With that much gamey stuff in the choices, it'll be better as a video game. We can have our unofficial Sengoku Gensokyo sequel that way.
No. 9056
>>9050
He does love his yukkuris as they dominated a chunk of patchy quest.

>>9054
You really haven't read anything good then.

Doll Quest: Dry dialogue, too much war managing, something better left for a video game or an actual PnP session.

Patchy Quest: started out promising but started to get mired in Yukkuris and dry side quests. That and morons insisting on Touhou vs Harry potter stuff and "collapsing the universe under the weight of infinite bats"

City Quest: Where do I even begin? It's getting as bad as average joe at its worse if not more. And at their peaks, Average Joe was better (in a so bad it's good sort of way)
No. 9058
>That and morons insisting on Touhou vs Harry potter stuff and "collapsing the universe under the weight of infinite bats"

God forbid people make jokes.
No. 9059
>>9055
Doll's Quest is the one I didn't read, so I had no idea about any of that.
>>9056
>You haven't read anything good then
No? MiG wasn't any good?
YAF's stories on /shrine/ weren't any good?
Say what you will about YAF, but I stand by my statement.
No. 9060
>>9050
http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=216421&page=16

Here you go.
No. 9061
>>9059
MiG was good not because it's a good story. It's because of the anon reading it.
No. 9062
>>9060
non-members can't see the link, could you copy and paste what's mentioned (or the gist of it)?
No. 9063
>>9062
Basically, there's this ongoing discussion about a side story focusing on a male OC (Reimu's descendant) on the main story. They wanted to turn him into a harem lead for some reason (I don't know. I don't want to check the past threads).

There are people who want that side story to have its own thread (the bolded ones are written by that guy above).

>urg, so much pointless Touya stuff leeching the vitality out of the story

>This. I'm sorry but it feels weird getting all this backstory about a character that rarely shows up and only has a minor role at best.

>Touya is a freaking meme in the making the way things are going, and I'm not sure how I feel about that. Give the man his own thread, damn it!

And then the replies.

>Urg, so much pointless bitching when no one else is complaining.

>Personally, I think the Touya segments are a neat addition. It's one of those rare occurances where a new addition syngerizes with the story. He's also a male character to contrast with Yuka. Besides, this is Gensokyo: it should be silly. And what's sillier than harem antics. Especially since it's not over the top (like most modern anime series are...)

And then, this guy started it.

>But Yuuka is male in this story...

>Joking aside, I prefer to keep the word "Touhou" and "harem" separate. There are already a lot of animes out there where we can watch "silly harem antics".

The reply.

>Umm, you do realize what 90% of the fandom idea of Alice + Marisa's relationship is right?... (this is the post that's quoted above)

The guy complaining replied back.

>Okay, which part of the fandom have you been into? I don't even know half of those pairings.

>Personally, I have nothing against yuri pairings or harems in Touhou. I really don't care about them. In fact, I can tolerate them just fine, as proven by me liking Touhou Mother which contains your usual Marisa x Alice x Patchouli love triangle with Mima shipping them (Marisa prefers Patchy by the way), as long as they are not the main focus of the plot.

>Also, I see nothing of those "subtexts" you see from canon.

More replies.

>Just got back from Sakuracon with about $350 in doujinshi that were from originally bought at Comiket, then re-sold over here. You'd be amazed at the various love-triangles out there. I mean, if you just went by what I picked up, which is a very wide variety (I literally bought one whole box full of them without even reading what was in it) Reisen is getting it on with Marisa having won out over Patchouli or Alice due to her love of firepower, and Marisa's ability to shell out said firepower, or that Cirno is in a 6 way with the 3 Fairies, Daiyousei, and Rumia, and has gotten powerful enough post-Fairy Wars to play kick the can with Letty. Or that Rin is a lolicon for Chen in a massive way. Or how Utsuho is such a massive fangirl of Aya & Hatate to the point that she'll danmaku the F out of you if you get between her and a BunBunMaru paper, even if you're Satori.

>7,000 Circles per Comiket (in recent years), with each Circle generally doing between 4-7 Doujins (at bare minimum) makes for one HELL of a headache in trying to figure out which direction the fanbase is swinging towards. EnhanceHeart pulled off a miracle last year in creating a doujinshi from scratch in the hours after ZUN announced Ten Desires, involving most of the new characters, printed up 800 copies, and sold them all before the event was over.


>*Goes back to playing IaMP, SWR, and/or TH, which I also picked up, along with Demonbane & Shoot the Bullet*


And then, this guy ended the discussion.

>I thought you people were going to move the Touya stuff to a thread of its own and leave this place free of that. What happened with that?

By the way, that Comiket goer guy was one of the two guys (the other one being the author of the original story himself) who kept posting ideas and wrote snippets about that harem story.
No. 9064
>>9063
>Just got back from Sakuracon with about $350 in doujinshi that were from originally bought at Comiket, then re-sold over here. You'd be amazed at the various love-triangles out there.

Okay. It's just a moron thinking that doujins are canon, I was afraid for a second here.
No. 9067
>>9063
>Sakuracon with about $350 in doujinshi that were from originally bought at Comiket, then re-sold over here.
For a profit, I bet. Bastards.
No. 9069
>>9067
He's probably a touhoufag just because he can earn money from this.
No. 9071
>>9064
But it just goes to show what kind of touhou fans spacebattles readers can be.

But back on topic, the differings of opinion would make such a page impossible to make untainted.
No. 9072
Back to the main topic (History/culture board), I would like to know what caused the infamous shitstorms in GH. Was it a single user being annoyed about the Flandre route, or was a whole group being annoyed by the story itself? And why did Taisa react so bad to it?
No. 9073
>>4071
We could just do it urban dictionary style, with the most popular version of the events being the top listed, and other, less popular ones further down the page. It's an imageboard, so the populace writes the history, and Keine.
No. 9074
>>9072
it'd change depending on who you'd ask. I will say this though: None of the sides involved had clean hands.

This would be the major problem as it'll be impossible for the true events to be recorded due to the heavy opinions lying around.

>>9073
That's not how you do history, what you'd get is a revisionist piece of propaganda that ultimately benefits those who support it. Large populations are easily manipulated, just ask George W. Bush.
No. 9075
>>9073
Let's bear in mind that the most popular versions of history are quite often incorrect in at least one fashion. History is not a popularity contest; it's about arguments backed up by tremendous piles of evidence.

>>9074
Despite how the word is most often used, revisionism is not necessarily negative. In fact, it's what allows entrenched historical falsehoods to be revised.
No. 9076
>>9072
Basically, it's because anon grouped themselves into "factions".

At first, it's the Flandre faction vs Sakuya faction vs Remilia faction.

Remilia faction was quickly defeated because they technically had already had their own Remilia route story (HY's story).

Sakuya faction was somehow miraculously absorbed into the Flandre faction. This was one of the reasons why the future shitstorm was really big. Anon had sacrificed their Sakuya route to get the Flandre route.

Then came Rumia. Oh boy, that's when the shitstorm became really big.

The Rumia faction was as big as the Flandre faction. Combined with other non-Flandre route factions, they managed to steer the vote into their cause at times, causing chaos into the plans for Flandre route. That's very dangerous since Flandre was a quite unstable kid there.

Cue accusations of derail from the Flandre faction. One of them even went crazy and said he hoped Rumia would get run over by a truck.

And the rest are history shitstorms.

Taisa didn't want a routelock by the way.

Correct me if I'm wrong though. Maybe I'm unconsciously biased to one side.
No. 9077
>>9076
I think you're forgetting someone...
No. 9078
>>9075
>revisionism is not necessarily negative. In fact, it's what allows entrenched historical falsehoods to be revised.

Revised and then debated in often with quite a bit of acrimony by scholars. Throw in personal bias and schools of thought and you've got all of the standard elements of a historiographical debate in academia.
No. 9079
>>9076
From what I saw, even early on the story, most of the readers then basically gave up Youmu, Keine, and a few possible others to pursue Flandre, who apparently struck them as datable.

These "sacrifices" are part of the reason why Flandre fans fought as hard as they did: Because they felt if they merely gave up, the sacrifices would go to waste. That and the fact they actually saw her as a possible love interest, not the eternal little sister figure she's pigeonholed into.

It was pretty quiet with only slight opposition coming from Mystia. Taisa's no routelock policy wasn't an issue.

Then when the move came and with it came the hiatus of just about every story but GH. All the readers who made the move, having nothing to do decided to check GH out. Upon finding out it was going in a SDM direction and Taisa's policy, the competition began but it was rather civil until someone called Flandre fans "PEDOS!" that things started to go to hell as it got them on the defensive and closed to reason. That and Wiseman proceeding to be himself in the worst way. He might have meant well but in the end did nothing but hurt the Flandre cause.

Somehow the Sakuya faction either was defeated or gave up surprisingly enough (being the strongest SDM route faction on the site) and soon enough Rumia came along. Despite being an obvious villain, her fans came out of the woodwork, renewing the hostility in the story, bringing it to new levels. As the result of the fighting and other factors, Jin wasn't able to make the club he made more often than not. This in turn only heightened the shitstorms as the Flandre fans blamed the others.

Along the way the infamous Mana transfer scene came up, as a result of people voting on what Taisa intended as a joke choice. The full set of reasons was unknown, but they included "wanting to see if Taisa would do it" and "Wanting a Patchouli sex scene". What was done as a frivolous thing resulted in a foothold that the Patchouli fans used to enter the "war".

The inclusion of the Patchy faction was overshadowed by a write in horrifically backfiring (the friend making one), which took Rumia out of the running and weakened the Flandre faction to the point where the fans would truly have to fight. The Rumia fans had one last laugh as they managed to get Jin to go after Rumia first.

This left the Flandre fans with having to deal with Remilia's festival before having a real chance to undo the damage done.

And then the Patchouli shower scene came up and Taisa collapsed. It's easy to get mad at Taisa for certain things but I do not blame him as he was a new writer in over his head to a silly extent. He's easily the most innocent figure in this whole debacle, not the non-flan fans who seeked to take advantage of taisa's policy, nor the Flandre fans with how they acted, especially Wiseman with his shitstorm in /blue/ last year.

THP after GH? Rumia's considered a valid love interest, though fans springing for a villain Rumia did occur in the Alchemist story but no real conflict came out of it, perhaps out of wariness/weariness over GH.

Flandre has gotten a romantic route in Balanced Lunacy for Ulterior Ends by Landscout. Hopefully it'll actually end and peacefully at that (as the last stories with a remotely love interest Flan have basically died)
No. 9080
>>9079
Holy crap, I had no idea it was that bad. I kind of understand why Taisa is so scared to resume the story now.
No. 9081
>>9079
They gave up Keine for Flan?
...was YWUiG still updating back then?
No. 9082
>>9075
>>9078
Many use the term to denote accounts vastly different than what's written. But at the same time there's more proper uses such as the de-villifying of Nero (as the popular beliefs about him were due to what amounts to a Roman Tabloid)

>>9080
I would have used something from a bloody battle for that but that picture sums up GH pretty well.

>>9081
Yes if among other reasons a Flan route is still pretty rare these days. Not to say it didn't weight heavily on their minds. If the sacrifice was light, I doubt they'd have fought as hard and desperately as they did.

As far as YWUiG goes, it was dead a long time when GH started, though it might have predated Harker's departure towards Shrine Maiden (CUMaS was a potentially Keine and/or Reisen story) The closest thing we have to a Keine route is Wizard and Deme's too busy with life.
No. 9084
>>9082
> popular beliefs about him were due to what amounts to a Roman Tabloid
I wouldn't equate Suetonius and Tacitus with tabloids myself, but they certainly were not contemporaries to the Julio-Claudians. History is written by the victors, in a manner of speaking, and many of the 'bad' emperors alienated the senate and rode on the populist sentiment resulting from debasing their potential political rivals. The only blatant contradiction in their accounts regarding Nero is allegations that he squandered money, when it is later stated that Claudius had a healthy treasury at the start of his reign.

...but this isn't touhou-related, sorry. Just seems a bit more productive than revisiting shitstorms without taking the time to read a story yourself.
No. 9085
>>9082
>Deme's too busy with life
Lies. He went back to /tg/ to write about pantless lolis fighting aliens.
No. 9086
>>9085
He's actually too busy to even work on that story (and that's a "wing it as you go" type story)
No. 9092
>>9084
As you said, winners write history, but it's also a matter of perspective.
Apparently, Franco is quite popular in Spain, despite the fact that citizens from other countries consider him as a tyrant and a murderer.
No. 9094
>>9092
Only with a segment with the population. A sizable minority. Definitely not with the PSOE, Basques and other segments of society.

That sort of soft perspective is only useful if you're doing something soft like a social history and popular conceptions. It's all the rage in certain circles, but it won't help you much with harder truths like who really did what. Applied to the history of the site, there's still no better way to get into it than the threads themselves. Avoids so much of the hearsay we've seen.
No. 9095
>>9094
Yeah, but not anyone is able to read between the lines. For example, I was aware of shitstorms in GH, with the infamous "pedo", but I wasn't aware things were that bad.
No. 9098
I'm not sure about the rest of you, but >>9076 and >>9079 are making me more confident that something like this would actually work. Fairly objectively written and very detailed.
No. 9104
OP here, and after reading through all this here, I think that it would be nice if we just had a thread always locked on a high position like the "How to survive thread" and the news thread. Or maybe just another board sitting beside /blue/. Either way, if anything is going to happen, Kapow would have to say something about it.

Off-topic, but seeing the route wars, I wonder what would happen if a story was written with no routes whatsoever, and even gaining enough trust or friendship to not get killed by a touhou becomes incredibly hard. Like a more realistic portrayal of Gensokyo's treatment of outsiders.
No. 9105
>>9104
the idea would also be unrealistic as some are actually friendly to outsiders and from what's been said, most gladly accept the offer to go back while some end up god knows where and others choosing to stay.

While outsiders are a popular target for ridicule in Gensokyo, it's only the ones who spazz out as opposed to those that take their spiriting away calmly.

But I don't think a story would do so well as such a survival story without any friends wouldn't be enjoyable to most. This site was founded on the concepts of Touhou befriending and Touhou romancing.

Route faggotry only gets terrible when the writer fails to control it properly. This includes making choices as to encourage such things. The same goes for establishing a routelock in a timely fashion as routelocks generally put a stop to any route faggotry.
No. 9106
>>9104
>I wonder what would happen if a story was written with no routes whatsoever, and even gaining enough trust or friendship to not get killed by a touhou becomes incredibly hard. Like a more realistic portrayal of Gensokyo's treatment of outsiders.

I imagine it would be a rather short story if every character is trying to kill the protagonist by default.
No. 9107
>>9104
It could probably work if there's already some "evil" Outsiders causing trouble before the story begins.

I dunno, like telling that anti-youkai secret society about weapons from the Outside World.
No. 9108
Simple question, but I saw people using the "angry weeaboo eyes" ಠ_ಠ, and I want to know why it's not looked down like the other emoticons, such as xD, ;_;, or >:D
No. 9109
>>9108
most other emoticons are associated with immature sites and sloppy english while the angry weeaboo eyes originated elsewhere as a show of disapproval.
"; ;" is acceptable during sad moments in stories and in the site's history.
No. 9110
>>9109
Isn't ;_; a reference to Tsukihime's sacchin?
No. 9111
>>9110
Yep.
No. 9112
>>9111
Isn't it sad, Sacchin? ;_;
No. 9114
>>9110
>>9111
I thought it was from this.
No. 9115
>>9112
>>9110
>Sacchin

Who’s that?
No. 9116
>>9115
That chick from tsukihime. The routeless female character.
No. 9117
>>9116
No. 9118
>>9117
There's no joke here. Sacchin is just the "routeless chick from Tsukihime".

However, I don't know anything about some character named Satsuki.
No. 9120
>>9118
see >>9117
No. 9125
>>9120
see >>9077
No. 9144
>>9125
What?
No. 9148
>>9144
See >>9141
No. 9364
>>8900
Is he even still around anymore? I almost never go to IRC, but I've never seen him there the last few times I was there, and if he still posts he doesn't do it with his trip on.
No. 9365
>>9364
who, GM? She abandoned WUiG not long after it moved here (or, rather, touhouproject.com). She never went on IRC very often, and hasn't been in #THP. I don't think she's even aware that the site is still around, or it has a hyphen now, or that the main IRC moved to #THP.
No. 9366
>>9365
I think she's aware. Or, at the very least, could find out what happened to the site if she wanted to. There are a few people here who have a line of communication to her.
No. 9367
>>9366
I was one of them, as I knew her from online games since about 3 years before she started WUiG.

Except she stopped going on AIM, so I never talk to her anymore.