Archived Thread

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6297 No. 6297
You know what would be nice?

An /r/ board for anons to request stories for authors to pick up on and take up if it suits their interests.

I mean, When an author shows anons a bunch of his ideas they've just got to hope that just one of those stories is related to their interests so it does seem to make the site lack choice at times.

As the site's stories mostly revolve around votes and idea's given by anon so it would be good idea to have an /r/ board to see what kind of story anon want's rather than what anon is directly offered.

also another thing I've yet to see is a story
worked on by two authors as the idea of multiple people coming together and writing a CYOA or story sound like a very promising one.

and of course as a /r/ board requests for Touhou related crap and such.

No. 6298
There's 4chan to request "crap", as you said.
And most of writerfags are too lazy to even write their own stories, it's useless to request other stories. They'll just drop it after 2 threads.
No. 6299
/r/ is a silly idea. Why have a whole board, another pathetically empty board when you can have a thread instead? Plenty of authors have done idea threads before and even asked for ideas and others have just created threads with ideas.

As for the latter, it has been done.

How fatalistic. Somewhat true perhaps but then again most stories on this site aren't given very much attention at all to begin with.
No. 6300
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Check the archive.
There's not a lot of "completed" stories.
Most of them are in hiatus, stalled, or abandoned.
I'm pretty sure that if you erased all the unfinished stories from the archive, you could stock the website on a 1MB USB key.
No. 6303

Oh, forgot to precise that any story finishing with a snow end can't really be considered as a "finished" story. There are ways to end a story, and kill the MC with a trick coming out of fucking nowhere isn't a proper way.
No. 6304
The actual amount of stories finished doesn't change my observation that it is a fatalistic opinion you hold. Nor does it change the part where most stories are given little attention. In what is the two threads before they die, as you quaintly put it, they can be more update-dense than something that has numerous more threads.

Perhaps instead of whining about snow ends you would do well to care enough to support stories that are enjoyable. There is no guarantee they won't die off, but I would wager there's a better chance they won't if there's demand for them.
No. 6305
That's what I'm doing!
But I can't help but feel depressed when everything I can do is bumping and hoping for an update.

No, in fact, screw that, it's better to read finished stories rather than following one.
No. 6306
Then Fuck off. This site doesn't need people like you around at all. I might have been burned by stories dying but I still read ongoing ones as some of them are quite nice. It's pointless to cling to the past as it will never come again.
No. 6308
If stories are abandoned, it's mainly because:
-the writefag didn't plan his cunning plot all the way through.
-Anon is a dick.
No. 6309
Everything >>6304 said.

Especially this:
>Perhaps instead of whining about snow ends you would do well to care enough to support stories that are enjoyable. There is no guarantee they won't die off, but I would wager there's a better chance they won't if there's demand for them.

As for >>6305, I can only agree with >>6306: Fuck off.
No. 6310

Sorry guys, I kinda have to disagree with you here. I mean, I agree that we should support stories that might actually have a possibility of finishing, but the guy you are yelling at isn't entirely incorrect. It seems more like he's hit upon a sore nerve, since you guys are probably equally irritated about the abandoned stories.

The emotional investment spent on a story isn't worth the crushing disappointment when the story inevitably gets abandoned. To put it in perspective, it is likely that ZERO of the stories you are reading right now will finish, unless you are reading every single story on the board, in which case I am guessing maybe two will finish. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe all of them will finish. But we all know this isn't going to happen.

Also, to the guy that said that the stories that aren't being finished aren't being given enough attention: Bullshit. Popularity has nothing to do with whether a story will finish or not. If you don't believe me, just look at the archives. Most of the most popular stories on these boards have not finished.

I do agree that we shouldn't just write off things altogether, but I for one have been avoiding reading stories for about 6 months now, just to see if any finish in my absence. I've just been burned too many times, so I'm sticking to stories by authors that actually have the wherewithal to complete something regardless of the attention it gets. You know, a real author.

Sage because this entire discussion is stupid.
No. 6311
>>6304 here

The claim was never that "stories don't get finished because they get no attention". The claim is in a nutshell, "There is probably a better chance of stories not dying if they do get attention."

It is insulting how you frame it that somehow only "real" authors would bother to finish something. However, I do agree with the notion that someone with dedication will finish regardless. That said, I'll bring back my original statement, throw in my own experiences, and say that it is much easier to finish a story when you've got encouragement. I can't speak for every author but I can say that at least I enjoy it when my readers seem to be engaged beyond just occasionally voting. Attention by itself isn't responsible for writing but can help immensely by providing encouragement.

Your position is logically sound, going on by results and probabilities. It is probable that most stories will never reach a conclusion. But that's a very selfish position. I would be insulted, going so far to ask you to never read what I wrote, if you told me that despite my months/years of writing and my continual openness and affirmations of dedication to the promise of finishing my stories that you won't bother to follow my story as it runs. Again, this is my own personal position but I feel that it might echo the sentiments of others based on the conversations I've had, but the very nature of interactive stories means that the participation of readers is vital. The trip towards the end is perhaps more valuable than the end in of itself.

It may be a weak argument, but you speak of 'emotional investment'. Let me assure you that that sort of thing isn't just for readers. There is a degree of investment by the author as well and it's validated in part by his/her readers. While not everyone will find enough willpower to invest themselves to finish stories (hence the majority of dropped stories) I will once again wager that the investment of time, emotion and intellect is made that much easier when it's clear that the audience cares for the future of the story. Again, this isn't a concrete metric that can be applied universally with a formula but it is something that all the same will mostly likely make a difference.

This discussion is not stupid, and disengaging oneself from the site will accomplish nothing but add to the problems of an already moribund community.It is likely you'll shrug my points off and decide that you have nothing to gain anyways. You probably don't if you follow your logic or don't trust your peers and authors. Interactive fanfiction is a matter of goodwill and mutual faith between both parties and if we all took that attitude then there would be no one left on the site.
No. 6312
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So hey, since we're talking about abandoned/ongoing stories, does anyone know if Gensokyo High is still up? 'cause I've been reading the whole thing in 2 days, and I'm kinda annoyed by the delay.
No. 6313
On the off chance that you not a troll, and are instead just incredibly stupid; No, Gensokyo High is not still running, and the chances of it reviving are ludicrously slim.
No. 6314
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When will be the next update, then?
Saged, because unrelated.
No. 6315

I definitely see where you are coming from, but what you have to understand from the reader's point of view is that eventually you just get burned so many times you get really picky about what you choose to read. Should I participate? Yes, probably, and in fact I do when I am actually reading a story. I participate a hell of a lot. But 9 times out of 10 that participation will amount to nothing, because despite encouragement, constructive criticism, and a LOT of attention, most writers here will drop their story in a heartbeat without even informing their readers.

And that brings me to my other point. What stories are you even talking about that don't get the attention they deserve? I hear this argument swung around by authors as if its some razor sharp sword of infallible argument. Most stories that are abandoned on this site get far more attention than the writer should expect or deserve. I'm sorry, but if your story isn't getting the discussion you think it deserves, that means there is enough unspoken consensus between readers to just vote, or your story is just at a part where discussion isn't really needed. Or, as is most often the case, the writer has some incredibly unrealistic expectation of how the discussion should go.

I am an artist myself. I understand what it is like to be in an artistic slump. I know what creative pressure feels like. But I also don't make excuses. If I'm not drawing, it is my fucking fault. Even if I were doing an art-based CYOA, and I was in a slump, it would be MY fault. There is never a situation a writer can be in where the audience absolutely has to vote for a scenario to progress. Is it disheartening when you don't get the discussion or votes you want? I'm sure it is. And yes, you are free to quit your story if it ceases to be fun. But then you have to ask yourself: If I can't even see a piece of interactive fanfiction to a satisfying conclusion, can I really even call myself a writer? I really don't think you can. And that's okay. Its fine to realize you lack the skills or conviction to continue. But it isn't fine to lash out and blame the readers for your own shortcomings.

Right now the problem is that the bond of trust between the readers and the writers has been broken far too many times. Readers are afraid that the writer will just up and quit the story. And let me tell you, as far as creative works go, there is no worse feeling than getting into a story and becoming attached to the characters, only to have it end partway through. Knowing that the story will never continue, you will never have a satisfying ending, and you'll never get to hear the characters again. When a writer quits a story, the at least have the advantage of being able to answer those questions for themselves, that uncertainty simply isn't present.

If anything, it isn't lack of discussion that is killing the site. There is plenty of discussion. As much or more so than there was in the beginning. The problem is stories ending prematurely, and it scares readers off from getting too attached. Is there a solution to the problem? I don't know, but if there was anything I could do I would do it.

Sorry if you felt insulted, but I've been on this site since the beginning, and I've seen nearly every single story I have ever read die a horrible agonizing "hiatus" death. And all I hear from writers is whining about how there isn't enough discussion. Writers may talk about not feeling appreciated, but I know I sure as hell don't feel like our input is appreciated either. I mean, fuck, if I didn't care, I wouldn't be writing this huge reply, now would I?
No. 6316
In other word, discussing any twist, any vote, is being a "good" reader? I guess I'll keep discussing about anything then.
No. 6317
It's not that I don't understand how you feel, because I too feel the same way. I have been here since the beginning and I also am disappointed and a bit hurt when stories are dropped/hiatus'd. I am not only a writer, but a reader too. A bit of a hypocrite too when it comes to this discussion, seeing how pretty much everything I follow is stalled and I haven't found anything new I like.

Putting that aside, I've feel that I have to clarify something: I've never once said that any story isn't getting the attention/discussion it deserves. That's an important distinction to make as it implies entitlement via quality. My claim is that most stories here don't get that much attention. There are a few stories in /th/ and /at/ that get a score or more votes and countless comments whereas the majority on any board would have an average of about 5 in longer periods of time. That is regardless of update frequency and thematics. While you personally might dedicate your heart and soul into what you read, I can't say that everyone else does the same.

This isn't about blaming readers for writers' failings. It never has been. You're misinterpreting that I think. It ultimately is the writer's fault if he doesn't continue and if he doesn't finish. One can't blame readers for shoddy storytelling, uninteresting characters and the like.

You can't deny that readers on this site have a much more active role than with most other artistic media. You read a novel and it's passive. You gaze upon a painting or a sculpture - it's passive. Not so with CYOAs (the vast majority of the writing on this site). Readers craft the story along with the writer. They are also responsible for how things out.

Returning to my original point: Maybe more discussion won't do anything most of the time. Nor will more votes. But there are those who appreciate and enjoy when thought is given and something other than a simple vote is posted. Discussion and votes aren't a cure-all but they can be a vitamin shot or even a stimulant. There is nothing wrong in asking people to take a few minutes every once in a while to enrichen the experience. As a reader I know I enjoy it when someone tries to persuade me or makes an insightful post about some detail I hadn't noticed. And as an author I very much enjoy when people think outside the box, make a good write in or just seem to have their heads on right.

If you ever gave me any input in anything I wrote, I appreciate it. And let me assure you that if you asked or felt strongly about something, I would reply and address your concern as best I could. There's at least one author that feels this way and I'm pretty sure that a few others that I know would agree with my sentiments.

I don't think you should give in to your frustrations because it doesn't help anyone involved. When authors give in to their frustrations it creates the very same disillusionment that you're talking about.
When someone stops reading, there's a reader less in a story and that too can cause similar disappointment.
No. 6318

Like I said, I didn't up and leave the site. I'd browse to see what was updating and what wasn't. I've just kinda been avoiding reading too many stories for a while because it was getting so frustrating having every story I chose to read die off. I did follow one or two though (one of which, as luck would have it, actually reached a satisfying conclusion).

It probably didn't help that I chose to finally read through RaAN on christmas. I was really depressed when I got to the end and knew there wasn't any more ever coming. Of course in that case I knew what I was getting into when I started.
No. 6319
You want votes and discussion? Update more. Update faster. Hell, start writing from one vote. People will be naturally attracted to a fast, frequent-update story. The more people you have following you, the more votes and discussion bouts you'll get.

Faster updates = more fan activity. It's that simple.
No. 6320
In theory yes, in practice not so much. At least that's what 2+ years of being here has shown me.
No. 6321

I have never seen a decent, fast updating story that didn't get steady votes. Sorry.
No. 6322
You must have never gone outside of /th/ and /sdm/ then.
No. 6324
Sorry to say that, but I don't think that the update rate is important.
I mean, if you're updating your story every 5 minutes, you won't get lot of votes, since the readers don't have time to vote. In fact, the more you're waiting before updating, the more votes you get.
No. 6326
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Stories die because writers are busy playing Monster Hunter. Trufax.
No. 6327
Balance is key as if you update too fast, you'll prevent some folks from voting/discussing as well as the risk of burning out and having the rate drop badly. I know this from experience.

On the other hand if you're too slow with anything but meaty (sizable, substantial) updates then the rate of votes will suffer, and so will discussion.

Daily updates are good and all, but not if after a month or so, you burn out and end up doing twice a month updates.

The only reason a story with a nice update rate wouldn't get more votes is because of lacking or negative reputation.

Most decent updating stories in other boards get a nice number of votes. The thing is, decent update rate stories aren't common.

As for the matter of discussion, if you're doing a good job, it comes naturally. If not then that's just something you have to work on if you want it. Having a concept that hasn't been done to death also helps as with "screwing around", "Touhou romancing" and other classic types, it'd take more skill to have such things produce discussion.
No. 6328
>Daily updates are good and all, but not if after a month or so, you burn out and end up doing twice a month updates.
>Daily updates are good unless you stop doing daily updates

No, really? Who'd've fucking guessed?
No. 6329
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In short, it doesn't matter what is the writefag's update rate, but as long as it doesn't change, it's okay?

Picture related
No. 6330
depends on the writer and style, if some writers did daily updates, it'd fry people's minds. My point was consistency is best as an uneven rate would cause frustration, from both F5ing to no avail or from missing 7 updates because the writefag decided to pick up speed without telling anyone.