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5054 No. 5054
'sup THP. Been easing myself back into tabletop games after Labyrinth of Touhou revived my taste for RPG's (and ate my immortal soul, but that's a story for another time). This led to me rediscovering BESM. It's fun - three stats, a bunch of points, make whatever character you like.

I wonder if any of you anon play this/have played it?

No. 5055
I haven't. Primarily due to lack of someone to play it with. I've taken a look at the books though.

There's a proper Touhou RPG, you know. /tg/ even had a translation project but I'm not 100% sure they finished.
No. 5056
the three stat system is fun but they also released a D20 system version a few years back. That version is easier to find.

I used to play when I was a teen. It was really over the top wacky.
No. 5057
>>5056
Wait, people play D20 of their own free will?
No. 5058
http://www.mediafire.com/file/zjhudmjyiim/BESM3E.pdf

Tri-Stat 3rd Ed. pdf, for anyone who cares to look over it.

>I haven't. Primarily due to lack of someone to play it with. I've taken a look at the books though.

More or less why I'm asking here, yeah. I had something rolling with an IRC playgroup a few months ago, but that between final exams and serious party imbalances (half the party was min-maxed to hell and could plow through everything in sight, the other half ending up being little more than glorified sidekicks as a result), that fell through.

Not too sad about that, though. That setting needed a lot of work.

>>5056

See >>5057, more or less. Tri-stat with just two six sided dice does need more work from both the DM and the players to keep the game stable (less rules and such), but it's worlds simpler and more fun.
No. 5059
>>5057
wouldn't say free will, but free enough yeah.

See the problem is when gaming with people they will all want to use a standardized rules set. NOBODY wants to go to a game and spend a session learning yet another rules set.

D20 simply put themselves in the position to be the industry standard. pretty much everybody knows it and could explain it to a newbie competently enough.

Which is better than some systems where character creation feels like doing your taxes. Palladium, looking at you here.

Also, a recent study was done that people desire a certain level of complexity with their rules set. You can't give away, for free, rule books with less than 100 pages.

So with these two facts in mind, D20 fits comfortably right in and supplies the demand for a "standardized" rpg setting.
No. 5060
>>5059
What is your point, exactly? Tristat is more fun, but you should use d20 anyway because it's common?
No. 5061
>>5060
you should use d20 because you'll find more players.
No. 5062
I played a bit of BESM in middle school, wasnt really keen on the overall game system though. After playing that, found out about the d20 system, like it a lot more.
What about the d20 system dont people like? I never liked the "rolling under" a target number systems; bad memories of THAC0. Always going for higher numbers seems more straightforward.
No. 5064
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5064
>>5062
I dislike D20 for a bunch of reasons.

>Races
Congratulations! You now have a bunch of arbitrary bonuses at no cost! Hope your class jibes with your choice of race, we'd hate it if you weren't optimal!

>Classes
Congratulations! Your growth as a character now follows as a pre-defined course that is not even remotely affected by your character's actual experiences and training!

>Multiclassing
Congratulations! In the name of customizing your character you have completely gimped yourself!

>Experience and Levels
Congratulations! You have met an arbitrary threshold, and you now suddenly become stronger, faster, and (if my class progression here is correct) arbitrarily master a new ability! Slay a dragon? Your rogue just mastered toxicology!

Also, have fun redoing all of your character math -- you could say that leveling up is actually more painful then just hanging around at your current level!

>Feats
You just leveled up, redid your character sheet? Well congratulations! You now get to pick a superpower from a list of superpowers that have absolutely nothing to do with what earned you the experience! Defeated sand monsters? You can take a feat that makes you good at swimming! Solved a puzzle? Take a feat that boosts your HP!

>BESM D20
Is what you get when you strip everything out of BESM that makes it useful and surgically replace it with D20's fundamentally backassways approach to game design. It's not as broad, it's not as fun, it's just bad.

>In conclusion
Kids, don't contribute to the market domination of a stupid system just because that system dominates the market. Let d20 finally fall into the grave as WOTC moves on to less stupid products and the market forgets the depredations of class, race, level, and feats.
No. 5065
What about GURPS?
No. 5066
>>5064
No need for the rage, I understand all the points and see them as valid.
I think races are another way to customize a character, and it works for a setting to have multiple races when things like nationality arent as much of a distinction between two characters, at least mechanically.
As for changes made at level up, those are entirely up to the player to my understanding. A player who only cares about winning or powergaming will do what it takes to be optimal at every level, whereas a more roleplaying-oriented player will make choices that fit with who their character is and the experiences faced in game.
I havent played BESM since middle school, but I probably didnt have enough exposure or knowhow for it to be muvh fun. If I tried it again now, Im sure I would like it. d20 isnt the only system I play now, but it is the one Im most familiar with since I run it for the most part in my group. My group dislikes the d20 system but we have at least tried each others favorite systems and give each a chance.
No. 5068
>>5064
>>5060
>Kids, don't contribute to the market domination of a stupid system just because that system dominates the market. Let d20 finally fall into the grave as WOTC moves on to less stupid products and the market forgets the depredations of class, race, level, and feats.
It means stop bitching at people to use whatever uniQue snowflake niche style you're into and just let them have fun with what they want to play.

There's nothing wrong with doing something different because you enjoy it more. There's nothing wrong with finding people that enjoy the same thing. Great, good for you; but the moment you start crying about sheeple gamers with their sheeple games that can't understand the *SNORT* superiority of your *SNIFF* preferences,

Well, at that point you can consider yourself a humongous faggot.
Because you are.
And that is the truth.
No. 5069
>>5066
No rage directed at you or anyone else.

I just feel that, not only is d20 bad and not to my tastes, but its design purposes are fundamentally opposed to BESM's. I don't care what system other people use, but I think that BESM d20 is much worse than tristat.

>>5068
>I am deeply offended that you have pointed out objective flaws in the d20 system
No. 5070
>>5069
>I don't care what system other people use, but I think that BESM d20 is much worse than tristat.
>Kids, don't contribute to the market domination of a stupid system just because that system dominates the market. Let d20 finally fall into the grave as WOTC moves on to less stupid products and the market forgets the depredations of class, race, level, and feats.

Lol.

It deeply offends me that you think anything you've pointed out is a flaw (it's not) or objective (LOL it's not). You're basically saying "It's not logical that you can choose what skills to increase instead the skills increasing proportionally to how much you use them".

Hey, guess what. Oblivion tried scrapping that completely. You ended up with people "sneaking" into a wall behind a guard for hours or letting weaker creeps knock you around hundreds of times so they could train skills.

Which is great if you're trying to take the RP out of RPG and replace it with Grind, but otherwise, it's shit.

Of course, you could argue THAT'S JUST YOUR OPINION.
but that's my whole point.

No. 5071
>>5070
*instead of the
God I hate it when I do that
No. 5072
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5072
Hey. Hey, pst. 3rd edition > 4th edition.
No. 5073
>>5072
Too true.
No. 5075
Insults aside, it seems that people have played BESM. Not too surprising given the nature of this site I suppose.
No. 5079
Honestly, the main thing that made BESM good, other than the tri stat system was the multi dice rolling for actions.

In a single dice system, there is the same chance of getting a low, average or critical result. In a multi dice system the chances of getting an average result, like a 5 or 6, is many many times higher than the chances of getting a 2 or or a 12. I remember starting to build a custom version of BESM that used a 2d10 system, because it meant the chances of getting a 2 was like 1 in 100, and same for getting a 20. But the odds of getting a 10 - 12 or something in that area was really high. Results taper off toward the extreme numbers. This results in combat where average actions come up more often, which is how it should be. That is kind of what average means. People simply don't fuck up that often when using weapons.

You might be going "wait, won't the game get boring if you're usually getting the same result?". And the answer is no. In fact, it usually makes it more fun. Its less frustrating because it pretty much eliminates bad roll streaks ruining what might be a fun combat. In DnD, combat is practically flipping a coin, unless you are a fighter, in which case you are pretty much always going to hit, and usually hit it 2+ times a combat. Because of this, specialty players will have constant frustration of rolls of 10 - 12 missing and not getting to contribute, and the fighter sitting there hitting every turn. Not exactly very fun.

It also doesn't help that the AC system is completely fucked up and doesn't make any sense at all. I mean, you're telling me that every time a monster misses by a certain amount, what really happened was their attack hit the armor. Yet, for some reason, this has absolutely no affect on neither the player or armor? And when an attack hits, it somehow mysteriously bypasses armor completely, and does the same damage as if you were naked? Tell me, how does this work for weapons such as hammers and rocks? Why doesn't armor break? Why doesn't a glancing blow actually do anything? Why is it that a character in full plate armor can somehow dodge attacks more often than my character with 19 dex that isn't wearing anything?

Sort of limits the possibilities in character builds, doesn't it? And don't even go "well, there's monk", because monk is bullshit. Its an incredibly specifically themed class that has some traits that REALLY should have just gone to the rouge and fighter respectively and should have just been feats. Why is it that I can't make a nimble rouge that doesn't use armor? Oh, thats right, because for some reason all armor in DnD works like magic, even if its not actually magic.

Besm also had a really neat defense system that allowed low level characters to take on higher level opponents. Even if the enemy rolled a successful hit, you could make a defense roll to avoid it, which makes a lot of sense if you think about it. No matter how good a person is at shooting a rifle, all they can really do is try to shoot accurately where they think the person is going to be when the bullet arrives. The defense roll represents simply not being where they thought you were going to be.

I've played DnD for years, and it is a fun game, but the d20 system is inherently flawed. High level monsters will devour your party simply because they start getting such ridiculous high to hit scores and ACs, despite also getting massive HP and often incredibly overpowered abilities. It doesn't make me feel like you can be an simple hero that takes on insurmountable odds in the game, because you simply can't. You're pretty much stuck in level zones and have to grind your way to get up to the next rung of encounter levels. Besm sure as hell isn't perfect and it has some pretty hefty flaws of it's own. But at least I can play the unlikely hero in that and not have to pull out a calculator and create a perfect character build just so I can so little as survive. And at least I can create a character that isn't a predefined cookie cutter template.

I guess what I'm trying to get at is that it deeply confuses my why they went and made it a d20 game, since it stripped away every single thing that made it actually good and unique.

Dammit. Now I want to play Besm
No. 5083
>>5079
The multidice systems do create more average results due to the bell curve, but the randomness of single rolls is there to create the excitement I suppose. I would think the randomness is good for suspense, instead of routinely landing blows and having skills work every time there is some risk factor involved; imagine trying to hold off enemies while the thief unlocks doors. Having great weapon skill doesnt mean you will always hit your enemy, especially if they can fight also, but that ties into AC.
As for the attacking and AC of d20 games, the characters built for combat are usually going to fare better there than specialty ones, as combat is their specialty. They usually cant negotiate with the enemy or sneak around well, thats why they need support to step up and aid them. When dealing with a static defense like AC, it stands for their ability to negate an attack through many elements such as armor and agility; its up to the people at the table to decide how detailed theyre willing to get with their world. Maybe the enemy got a clean hit between armor plates, something not unheard of. Also, having to repair weapons, armor, and equipment isnt really handled in DnD as general upkeep is kept off screen in most games.
The defense roll systems used in place of static AC is a great option. One major flaw I have seen with it is the fact that things like random encounters and minor enemies being able to evade at least a decent amount will drag encounters and sessions on longer than they should. It does balance out encounters with huge level or gear gaps, but those fights should be rare and planned in advance for the most part.
DnD isnt suited to "hero takes on unsurmountable odds and succeeds" adventure, since its mostly rooted in heroic fantasy and medieval history themes. BESM handles that infinitely better since it covers things found in anime and manga, where that is the norm.
No. 5084
>>5083
D&D doesn't even really succeed at heroic fantasy. Last time I checked, Gorag the Barbarian slew the dragon; he did not fall into a save-or-die spike pit in an obscure dungeon, make a bad roll, instadeath enjoy your new character.

D20 is basically a NetHack simulator. If I wanted to play NetHack I would do so.

The concept of AC I can kind of forgive, though. It's meant to be an abstraction over the combination of natural agility, armor, and luck. A successful AC roll could be interpreted as an agile dodge or an attack glancing off of armor.

That said, defense rolls work better.

>>5070
>False dichotomy
No. 5085
>>5083
>>5079 here

Mostly agree, because it really is a two sided thing, and most of it is preference. My entire point was just that it was pretty stupid to turn BESM into a d20 mod when it removed the stuff that made it work, thus removing the option for people that just wanted an upgraded version of BESM.

However, the thing I have to point out is that in my group, the actual d20 attack system results in pretty much nothing but frustration. The occasional critical just simply isn't worth missing and wasting turns the rest of the time.

DnD is less of a roleplaying game, and more of a tabletop strategy game with roleplay elements. Again, nothing wrong with that, but it obviously it isn't what you are going to use if you want want a campaign that feels less like a board game.

4th edition did not help matters, considering it is literally like a card game. For gods sake, the rouge has a sand throw ability. An ability where the rouge just throws sand! Why that has to be a special ability and why anyone couldn't just buy a bag of sand and do it is beyond me.

Also, does it bother anyone else that the wizard in 4th edition can cast only one acid arrow a day (acid arrow is daily, right?), but can cast several thousand magic missiles in a row with no ill effects? That doesn't seem a bit weird to anyone else?
No. 5088
>>5085
>>and more of a tabletop strategy game with roleplay elements.

I remember a story that the idea for D&D originated from a tabletop wargamer who decided to run scenarios where each other player controlled a single unit, and had to cooperate to complete objectives. I'm not sure whether this is true or not because I can't remember where I heard it from (I'm thinking it was an issue of The Dragon, in which case it would be absolutely legitimate). Interesting how its roots are still visible so many revisions later.
No. 5089
>>5088

You are more or less correct. DnD originated from a game called Chainmail, which in turn originated from tabletop war games. Like I said, DnD is a good game for what it does, which is what it has always done: Tabletop strategy with more immersive storytelling elements. Even 4th edition keeps to this formula, though in my opinion it dumbs it down a bit too much, and makes some very odd choices with the abilities.

I've been considering either checking out GURPS, or resuming my own roleplaying system concept. I've had this one concept kicking around in my head for a while that uses simultaneous turns to allow greater flexibility in depicting combat scenes, but as you can imagine there are some pretty big hurdles with a system like that. So far I can't figure out anything that wouldn't require a somewhat robust computer program to assist in managing the game. Probably will never finish it though, in lieu of making actual video games. Oddly its a lot less of a headache.
No. 5091
>>5084
If Gorags DM is putting him up against constant game ending obstacles, he should find a new DM. The heroic fantasy stuff has largely been diluted through the revisions and more focus on mechanics of gameplay, but is still there as the basis of the generic setting.
Trying to find a happy medium between realism and playablility will always be difficult with a system attempting to cover extremely broad genres.
On the static AC vs defense roll front, defense probably works better to create an active game since players in combat will be rolling even outside of their turns. But it does lead to the problem of "defense capping," where you have an extremely low chance of failing to evade attacks given your skills and stats. Same applies for "hit caps" and other things at high level. By high level, the only things that determine combat are exceedingly rare hit/defense rolls by both the offense and defense.

>>5085
I never looked at d20 BESM, but what about the dice system couldnt be altered to tristat rolling? Wouldnt that essentially be the same as upgrading the tristat BESM?
As for your 4th Ed question, they wanted to give casters more things to do without limiting their power later in the day, though I dont understand their choosing method for abilities. From my perspective, they worked to make the game more accessable to new players by making it like MMOs, essentially their major competition in the fantasy RPG market. Making certain spells once per encounter (or day) makes them your go to move against the tough bosses, removing the need to choose which spells to reserve until you need them.
No. 5092
>>5091

Oh, I know why they made spells that way. I was just talking about how it doesn't make any sense that a wizard can cast something like 6000+ magic missiles in a day, yet can only muster up a single acid arrow. I totally agree with giving spellcasters lots of low level spells to sling around, since it makes them more useful. But arbitrarily making certain powerful spells only usable once per day really feels limiting. There's no good explanation for exactly why its like that either.

Honestly, they should just go with an MP variant. At least then you could have the best of both worlds. Giving lots of low level spells while limiting high level spell usage.

The other thing that bugs me about 4E is how many abilities actually force characters to do things, and how many abilities do damage regardless of if they hit or not. That kind of stuff is kinda crossing the line for me. I generally don't want to play a damage sponge in a game. Thats actually what bothered me about spells in 3rd edition.

Yet ironically, a lot of spells in 4E that used to be unavoidable except for evasion are now avoidable via rolls. Kinda funny, isn't it?

- - -

It occurs to me that so far this discussion isn't very THP related, so maybe we could shift focus to people's attempts of replicating various elements of the series in various RPG systems. Personally, I don't have much call to actually play a Touhou RPG with my friends (only one of my friends is a fan, and only one other will so much as talk about it without taking a swig of whatever is nearby. Stupid insulting drinking games). But I do think that there are a lot of elements at work in Touhou that could be applied to a game. Heck, if someone were to run an actual Touhou game, regardless of system, I'd be all over something like that (despite how destined for failure such a thing would be).
No. 5093
>>5092
>It occurs to me that so far this discussion isn't very THP related

I certainly don't mind and I don't think the rest of the people in this thread don't either. For the most part we have similar hobbies. Then again I think that any activity, no matter if it's slightly off-topic, is good for the site. Hell, if it were up to me we would have more discussions about canon and characters instead of 'just' fanfiction. It's healthy to branch out a bit. Within the limits of common sense.

I don't have much to contribute to this thread. I've never homebrewed or altered any system significantly. Mostly due to lack of interest in my RL peers. What I can contribute is something old; A single man's insanity which is worth at least a skim if you haven't seen it already: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19876986/Touhou_d20:_Races_of_Gensokyo
No. 5094
>>5093

Whoa, thats quite a bit of work. And sweet, there's the lunar invasion picture I forgot to save last time I saw it. Might actually have to give that entire thread a read through when I'm not so tired.

I think part of the problem is that it is very difficult to try to play something Touhou related, especially roleplay, with people face to face. My non-touhou-fan friend will play the occasional game of TH12.3, or PoFV with me, but anything else would be awkward. My other non-touhou-fan friend takes a drink of whatever he is holding every time I mention something from it, or something he thinks is from it. Note he started doing this before he even knew what it was.

I remember the flak I got when I dared to do something as simple as playing a female character in a DnD game once (I had a character concept I wanted to flesh out, plus really, who the fuck cares?). One of my friends kept trying to make me feel awkward the whole game in ways I care not to repeat. This was made doubly annoying as he was playing one of those lizard races, so you can only imagine some of the things he said. Eventually he pissed everyone in the party off because he was "playing his character alignment", and doing stuff like shoving people into traps to set them off. Almost got me killed with a poison gas trap when the GM let him pick my character up without any kind of roll, and THROW me like 20 feet. Apparently the GM was operating on the "house-rule of funny". I was not amused.

This eventually all came to a head, and the whole party all ganged up on him to shut down his shenanigans. And this was a party of 7, at that. He's holding them off (he's the fighter of the group, and we were all fresh off a pretty hard encounter), and get this, he turns to me and asks me for help. I suddenly go ethereal and when I re-appear he's missing both his kidneys. Unfortunately for him, I was playing the ninja class from one of the supplement books.

Yeah, don't piss off the ninja. Especially not the one you've been using as your own personal trap-stick.

To be able to pull something like a Touhou game off you would either need to mix people playing MANLY classes they are comfortable with and NPCs from the setting (which is thematically awkward). Or you need to have a group that isn't face to face and/or is chill enough with the concept of playing something like a fairy. And to top it all off, you need a group that is interested in the source material in the first place. And that's in addition to needing players that are competent in the first place, which is a fucking rarity in itself.

That said, it would be neat to try someday.
No. 5113
>To be able to pull something like a Touhou game off you would either need to mix people playing MANLY classes they are comfortable with and NPCs from the setting (which is thematically awkward). Or you need to have a group that isn't face to face and/or is chill enough with the concept of playing something like a fairy. And to top it all off, you need a group that is interested in the source material in the first place. And that's in addition to needing players that are competent in the first place, which is a fucking rarity in itself.

Could be done with some THP people. I'd be up for that.
No. 5114
>>5094

That... sounds like a horrible DnD group. I'm sorry you had to go through that.
No. 5156
>>5054
BESM Tristat is not a good system by almost any measurement, but the d20 version took everything that was possibly good about it and gutted it. I would, personally, avoid both.

>>5055
That Flowers one? I think it barely went anywhere. However, some people on /tg/ were homebrewing a system that looked like it could be decent, and followed similar lines to what the Japanese system looked like. Ask around for the Touhou Homebrew Guy, or just lurk.

>>5064
>Congratulations! You now have a bunch of arbitrary bonuses at no cost!
Racial bonuses have the cost of not allowing you to get other racial bonuses. Yes, this is a cost. If you can't see why, I will be forced to treat you as a small child in the ensuing explanation.

>...not even remotely affected by your character's actual experiences and training!
>prior complaint repeated in every instance

Okay, so you don't like advancement that doesn't follow the training that you have declared your character to be undertaking. Some DMs enforce that you practice the skills that you'll be increasing when you level up, and don't allow you to take them otherwise. Most don't, because that is actually not at all fun, but if you want to, you can do it pretty easily. It's not like the DM is going to say "No, you can't arbitrarily limit yourself."

>You have met an arbitrary threshold
This is true in every game that allows advancement of any kind, because evaluating precise statistics with decimals would be not only less than fun but completely unmanageable. Some games (such as level-based games) place these thresholds farther apart than others. Other than this, the only effect of level-based advancement is to limit min-maxing.

>>5079
ARGH. I'm sorry, but you do not understand how probability works--at all. You cannot change the dice of a system to increase the likelihood of getting an "average" result on any test that is pass/fail. All you have changed is the way static bonuses affect the probability. And the d20, in the d20 system, is only used for pass/fail tests.

>Yet, for some reason, this has absolutely no affect on neither the player or armor?
Yes, because AC is an abstraction. If you want separate armor effects, A Game of Thrones d20 did what looked like a very decent job of doing low fantasy, medieval combat. Or you could just not use d20. Either way, realize that there are also people who have to deal with multiple hit, dodge, damage, and armor rolls with every attack and don't like it. This is not a flaw. The level of abstraction you desire is a matter of taste.

>You're pretty much stuck in level zones and have to grind your way to get up to the next rung of encounter levels.
>grind
Wat.

The rest of your complaints are solved by not playing 3rd edition, but then you're not really playing what has come to be known as "the d20 system," having done away with such things as 3.x-style multiclassing and rigid class advancement.

>>5083
>DnD isnt suited to "hero takes on unsurmountable odds and succeeds" adventure
It is now.

>>5084
>D&D doesn't even really succeed at heroic fantasy. Last time I checked, Gorag the Barbarian slew the dragon; he did not fall into a save-or-die spike pit in an obscure dungeon, make a bad roll, instadeath enjoy your new character.
You seem to be talking about 2nd edition. Some people liked that because it made the survivors seem like total badasses.

>>5085
>DnD is less of a roleplaying game, and more of a tabletop strategy game with roleplay elements
This is simply untrue. D&D has everything necessary to be an RPG. It is ALSO a tactical combat game, assuming that combat occurs and you wish it to be tactical. That does not lessen its worth as an RPG.

I am frankly sick and tired of people claiming that a good combat system means that something can't be a roleplaying game--as if combat and roleplaying can't occur within the same system in whatever proportion the players wish.

>4th edition did not help matters, considering it is literally like a card game.
This is not even remotely true, though some groups like having reference cards, and WotC has supplied spiffy graphics for that purpose.

>For gods sake, the rouge has a sand throw ability. An ability where the rouge just throws sand! Why that has to be a special ability and why anyone couldn't just buy a bag of sand and do it is beyond me.
They can. It's covered in the DMG. However, the rogue is better at it if he's taken that power, just as the fighter is better at breaking people's armor if he took Crack the Shell.

>>5091
>"defense capping,"
Mostly fixed in 4th edition. Attack/AC generally works well now, but they fucked up repeatedly on saving throws, and chose to fix the monster stats instead of the PCs' options when it became apparent.

>From my perspective, they worked to make the game more accessable to new players by making it like MMOs
It's funny, because no MMO uses such a system. There is every relation between the at-will/encounter/daily structure and the Vancian system of the previous edition, and no relation to any MMO I've played--and I can rattle off a dozen or so I actually bought.

>>5092
>But arbitrarily making certain powerful spells only usable once per day really feels limiting. There's no good explanation for exactly why its like that either.
You answered your own question. They're limited because they're more powerful.

You could do the same thing in 3rd edition using reserve feats (for at-will spells) or martial maneuvers (for encounter powers, which were often mystical).

>and how many abilities do damage regardless of if they hit or not
That's directly due to this complaint:

>The occasional critical just simply isn't worth missing and wasting turns the rest of the time.
Wasting a turn is especially frustrating when it was a power you can only use once a day. Thus, daily powers were designed so that you still get something if you miss. This is only true of daily powers in the vast majority of cases.

Just for the record, I played in two RPGs today, with different groups. In the afternoon I played Rogue Trader. In the evening I played Cthulhutech.
No. 5157
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5157
I've been DMing the campaign "You Wake up in Gensokyo and Prepare for Glorious Battle" since... well, it was before [x] Call for Tewi, at the least.

It's now in its second incarnation, arc 2. The first incarnation got to around arc 3 before I decided the setup was not long-term manageable.

Since there are six players, I don't exactly have room to take on more (though we used to have seven), but--just saying, Gensokyo works fine with D&D.

Pic related to recent events.
No. 5161
>That Flowers one? I think it barely went anywhere.
I clearly recall several pages being translated and edited. Can't tell you for sure how much of it was, but I suspect that it was at least a third.
No. 5162
>>5161
Not enough to play, last I checked. Kinda hard to read through in its current state to see if that's changed.

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Touhou_Danmaku_Yuugi_Flowers_RPG
No. 5163
>>5157

You must post the entire campaign so far, for we would like to read it. Second incarnation of course.
No. 5169
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5169
>>5163
We were supposedly keeping logs, but more recently (for months) we've gotten really lazy about that. Let me see if I can summarize from memory. I'll probably forget some things.

The setup was that each member of the party would end up in Gensokyo through different means and have some time to settle in before adventuring (as opposed to the traditional WUiG method of being
gapped in and wandering around being treated as an outsider, which we used for the first incarnation).
This also had the effect of causing a six-way party split right from the beginning.

The first in was the paladin. He'd been fighting on Earth in the third crusade, and was one of the knights captured and executed by Saladin. Except he didn't quite die. Instead, he woke up in a pile of corpses (his fellow crusaders) that had been gathered by a small group of youkai who'd slipped over the border on a groceries run. He ended up frightening them pretty badly, and from there made his way to the human village, to spend the next few decades learning the land and working with the youkai exterminators.

The wizard was actually summoned to Gensokyo after Patchouli attempted to summon an additional familiar and the spell behaved strangely. So he became a magician's familiar, and worked in Voile.

Several of the PCs hailed from Oerth, the world of Greyhawk. The excommunicated cleric of Pelor was
among these, and had just finished interrupting some cultists and slaying a demon when he found himself grabbed by a giant hand and pulled into something like the astral plane, where he met Kanako in full, divine splendor. She gave the demon-slaying priest the choice to switch faiths. He accepted, and spent the next months serving at the Moriya shrine.

The warlock, in family trouble concerning an inheritance, triggered a complex teleportation trap that wound him up in the Scarlet Devil Mansion. His appearance caused more trouble than the wizard's, but he convinced them to give him a chance at also joining the Voile team, and he and the wizard were sent to retrieve some of the books Marisa had borrowed.

The ranger had wound up in Gensokyo while wandering lost in the woods and actually had no idea he wasn't in Oerth anymore--until he met the warlock, an old acquaintance, on his way to the forest of magic. The three of them arrived to find Marisa out, triggered a bunch of magical traps, and eventually made it back with the books. Then the ranger got lost again (this happens a lot) and found his way to the basement, along with his wolf companion. He managed to talk calmly to Flandre long enough to learn that she'd "lost" her favorite toy, that she was capable of petting furry woodland creatures if told to be careful not to break them, and to suggest a new stuffed animal toy her sister could find for her. Ranger and wolf escaped with minor injuries when her restraint ran out.

The bard had become a king of his own land, up until he was usurped, assassinated, stuck in a bag of holding, and the bag thrown into another plane (possibly using that well-known trick with portable holes). Luckily for him, he was only mostly dead, and the bag ended up in a house in Mayohiga. Yukari brought him back for reasons only known to Yukari (whim is as good a guess as any), and the bard spent awhile helping Ran with house chores before becoming so bored that he crafted a talisman-of-getting-lost (to direct him to Mayohiga, a place people may end up at when lost), and commenced to wandering Gensokyo.

The warden's troubles began with an unscrupulous but innocent-seeming imperial princess, leading to a summary trial and sentencing in which he was to be cursed and exiled. The magi transported him to someplace near Chireiden, the palace of the earth spirits, and he slowly worked out that the nature of the curse--appropriate to a warden, as a guardian--was to guard the place he was sent to and obey completely that place's master. Satori was rather taken aback, but since she could easily confirm anyone's honesty, she allowed him to stay and help keep the evil spirits in line. (If she hadn't--well, breaking a geas is a bad idea.)

That finished the prologue, after a fairly disastrous battle against fairies who'd waylaid some human children through the usual mischief. The first arc began with a convergence of events (to deal with the 6-way party split). The Bunbunmaru paper released a special edition that caused a stir among the mountain gods with some vague mentions of new sources of faith. Sanae had her hands full there, so Kanako sent the cleric to check on a different matter--she had a suspicion that Utsuho was messing around with the powers she'd been gifted. Since it was a bit of a dangerous journey, he was advised to go to the human village and enlist the paladin's aid. The paladin, after finishing the portrait of Keine he'd been painting (portraiture being his favored hobby), accepted the quest, and the two returned to the Moriya shrine. The bard was later picked up by Aya, who wanted an interview with a new stranger picked up by Yukari and even staying in Mayohiga, but was interrupted by Reimu who was ticked over some matter of photographs. In the ensuing fight, Aya tucked the photographic evidence into the bard's inventory and dropped him at a Tengu cave. He met up with the cleric and paladin on their way down toward the Kappa tunnels, and joined them for whatever would happen.

Elsewhere, the wizard and warlock were tasked by Patchouli with retrieving some valuable research materials from Utsuho's place. They met up with the ranger (still wandering in the woods) and followed a map that would let them retrace Marisa's route from the events of Subterranean Animism. Rather than encountering Yamame, they had to deal with a pack of less friendly and more monstrous spider youkai, and things didn't go well.

Around the same time, Yuugi asked a favor of the warden--to watch Parsee's bridge while Yuugi took her off to have a good time (the oni was of the opinion that Parsee didn't party enough). He accepted, and noticed the battle with the spiders at the other end of the bridge. Though he gave his assistance, the wizard was carried away by the last enemy, and plunged both spider and wizard into the chasm by using the last of his more powerful magics to immolate the spider's path. With no way to save him, the warlock wanted to continue on his mission--but he and the ranger were blocked by the warden, who took it as his duty to stop anyone from using the bridge until Parsee was back. He convinced them to wait half an hour before they'd throw him into the chasm as well and continue on their way, so when no one showed up at the end of that half hour, he went with them toward Chireiden.

Meanwhile, the three humans (paladin, cleric, and bard) ran afoul of a tengu patrol who weren't quite convinced they should be there. After beating them soundly, Aya showed up and quieted things down, leading them the rest of the way down to the Kappa tunnels as an additional favor. The Kappa tunnels were a strange place of smoke, metal, machinery, loud noises and no apparent inhabitants, and they got through it and to an elevator that would take them down to the underground. Though the elevator had been completed, it wasn't used much due to that whole matter with Yukari promising to keep surface youkai out of the underground. Naturally, none of the humans were aware of this, so they didn't object to Aya following them.

The two groups met up after passing through the ancient city, outside Chireiden, and went in to see Satori together. She gave the warden permission to lead them down to see Utsuho, who was at her arcanonuclear reactor in the hell of blazing fires. It was a long, hot trip that made the paladin (an old man in plate armor) wish he weren't an old man in plate armor. Orin showed up along the way, but she was going in the opposite direction so didn't stay to chat long. After reaching the bottom of that tunnel, the party ascended to a system of narrow rock bridges spanning a molten sea (naturally filled with damned souls). Near one of the pillars holding up the network, they had a fight with lava beasts that they finished handily by destroying some and knocking the rest the long way down, off the path.

When they reached Utsuho's place, they found her in ecstatically conducting some experiment involving particle colliders (or something equally mysterious and arcane-sounding). As she started up the equipment for the final stage, the center of the room opened a planar portal to the Elemental Chaos, and the room was soon filling with a great variety of demonic creatures. As Utsuho worked to correct this minor mistake, the party fought the demons as they appeared, attempting to keep the room from becoming completely overrun. Before the crow could finish, a long arm about ten feet wide and covered in an armored hide reached out of the portal, knocking the paladin away, grabbed and began to crush the ranger. Utsuho finally joined the fight at this point (for massive damage), though I think it was the paladin who dealt the final blow that caused the arm to retreat, after everyone's efforts.

Rather than turning off the portal (which would require ending the experiment), Utsuho switched it to another target locus, establishing a permanent portal to Oerth. While finding this an interesting coincidence, it was decided to leave the thing alone, and the warlock assisted in putting a magical lock over the portal to prevent its careless use. All of them, hell crow included, made their way back to Chireiden. There, Yukari showed up out of nowhere, and the conversation between her and Satori was strained and threatening. Okuu didn't fully understand, except that Yukari was unhappy with her recent actions and also a deeply terrifying person. Yuugi showed up again, quite pissed off at the warden for letting Parsee come back to find her place less guarded than she'd expected, and he promised to make it up to both of them. Yuugi was still ticked. At some point Aya was asked to find the wizard's body if she could, but didn't manage to. She escaped on her own without causing an incident.

The bard was the first back to the Scarlet Devil Mansion and convinced Meiling of his right to entrance due to his acquaintance with the warlock. Then he began to peruse Voile, acquiring some valuable material. When the paladin, warlock, and ranger arrived, the warlock told Meiling that the bard was a thief, and set out to find him. He did, and they engaged in a completely one-sided fight as the bard made no attempt to defend himself. He was given over to Sakuya for punishment--which involved a lot of knives and screaming. When bard and maid parted hours later, she appeared flushed and less than hostile.

The paladin hit it off with Remilia. Though she was born a few centuries later than the time he was from, he was still a French nobleman from well before the revolution, and she was also pleased at his desire to paint a picture of her. (Don't try to think of how the time paradox works out--it's Gensokyo.) The ranger went to ask for permission to go see Flandre, and was given it despite some difficulty arising from his complete lack of social skills in formal situations. Sakuya gave him a stuffed animal in the shape of a wolf, saying Remilia had had her fetch it, but would rather not give it to Flandre herself. This second encounter with Flandre ended with less burning, and a promise to petition Remilia to let her outside if she was a good girl for the next month. Flandre agreed, amidst signs that she wasn't quite well. The warlock returned to find Koakuma (with whom he'd become well acquainted after she showed off her ability to shapechange and stole his mana) distraught, explaining that Patchouli was even more cold and reclusive than usual, the arcane backlash of violently losing a familiar having assaulted her psyche.

Back in the underground, the bard had continued his wandering, and had a friendly encounter with Yamame--though she assured him that the other spider youkai had a tendency to be less friendly, and there wasn't much she could do about that. The warden got to have a few drinks with Yuugi, telling her the full story about what had happened (and getting fairly drunk). After he finished, she started getting excited over the matter of Yukari having broken her own agreement in coming to the underground herself, and declared that the oni would start a surface party. Since he owed her one for letting down Parsee, he'd be helping out.

A few other things happened, like the paladin finding (but being unable to afford) a magical quill at Kourindou, and Patchouli gradually recovering, the warlock telling Remilia some about Oerth, the cleric bringing gifts of food to Reimu, and the ranger going to live with the wolf Tengu for awhile. Several weeks passed, and that's it for now.
No. 5170
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5170
The original campaign started with 3.5 rules, heavily using the Tome of Battle, but was switched to 4th edition amid losing a couple players (the ones I didn't pick up from here) at the time the 4e books were leaked. It lasted levels 5 to 8. The second campaign started using 4e at level 11, after the release of the Player's Handbook 2 (hence the presence of a warden). They're about halfway to level 12 at this point. Part of the reason for the rules switch (and the main reason I've never looked back) is how incredibly easier it is quickly homebrew things--especially high level casters. When you've got players who know how to play well, it's difficult to deal with mid- to high-level magic, and making casters to appropriate strength is thus very difficult. What took me an entire day in 3.5 now takes half an hour at the outside.

This and previous pic also related. Except for the crying.
No. 5171
>(with whom he'd become well acquainted after she showed off her ability to shapechange and stole his mana)

It's a good thing I have a lot of it!
No. 5172
>>5169
>>5170
Sounds like a blast.
No. 5173
>>5171
Loli-Koakuma?
No. 5174
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5174
>>5173
She comes in a variety of sizes!
No. 5176
>>5174
Can't stop here, this is Koakuma country!
No. 5180
>>5176
>can't
Do you mean "can?" Or maybe "must?"