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4719 No. 4719
1. When an anon erroneously grabs an obscure detail you made up off the top of your head and uses to justify a wrong conclusion, and everyone else bandwagons it.
2. When an anon correctly grabs an obscure detail you made up off the top of your head and uses it to guess the entire plot.
3. When anon meticulously avoids any form of conflict.
4. When anon suicides the protagonist into any conflict they can find.
5. When anon makes an obscure choice you did not want or expect them to make.
6. When some anon makes a write-in that defuses the entire plot, and everyone bandwagons it.
7. When some anon makes a write-in that derails the protagonist's characterization, and everyone bandwagons it.
8. When anon picks (inevitably) the choice you are least prepared for.
9. When anon gives a bunch of identical votes and no comments (partially the writer's fault).
10. Having YAF post in the writer's thread.

No. 4720
File 127482729514.jpg - (4.32KB , 107x126 , 125385039754.jpg ) [iqdb]
4720
No. 4721
So, basically, when anyone votes on anything?

Also,
>PureWhiteLoverBizarreJelly
Anime fucking where?
No. 4722
>1. When an anon erroneously grabs an obscure detail you made up off the top of your head and uses to justify a wrong conclusion, and everyone else bandwagons it.
I love it when this happens. It's fun to read.
>2. When an anon correctly grabs an obscure detail you made up off the top of your head and uses it to guess the entire plot.
No comment.
>3. When anon meticulously avoids any form of conflict.
I seem to have something of a reputation for -forcing- them into conflict whether they like it or not.
>4. When anon suicides the protagonist into any conflict they can find.
See above.
>5. When anon makes an obscure choice you did not want or expect them to make.
Challenge is good. Gets the creative juices flowing. I wish my readers did this more often. I keep including disclaimers that write-ins are always welcome.
>6. When some anon makes a write-in that defuses the entire plot, and everyone bandwagons it.
Haven't had this happen... yet. But then, I barely plan the plot as a hard, unchanging thing all the way through anyway; always leave myself some wiggle room.
>7. When some anon makes a write-in that derails the protagonist's characterization, and everyone bandwagons it.
I write two stories. One has a 'blank' protagonist where this arguably may or may not be an issue; it's a little difficult for me to draw the line where I should let the votes define the character, and where I should do it myself based on what we have so far. The other story has a character with a pre-set personality, and the readers haven't tried to derail it. Yet. May change due to recent revelations (or reminders) of the protagonist's mindset, though.
>8. When anon picks (inevitably) the choice you are least prepared for.
Entirely the writer's fault for stupidly giving a choice he/she was unprepared to write about. Granted - been there, done that, thankful for the experience regardless, came out wiser. Everyone seemed satisfied with the result, at least.
>9. When anon gives a bunch of identical votes and no comments (partially the writer's fault).
I don't seem to get this problem much, although I've heard other writers complain about it. I can understand how it can make one's story feel... uninspiring or stale.
>10. Having YAF post in the writer's thread.
I'm too much of a newfag to get this.
No. 4723
>>4721
It's the magic girl shmup minigame that's in No More Heroes. I've not played it myself, but I've heard the main character worships magical girl shows. And kills people with lightsabers. And has a cat.
No. 4724
>>4723

I'm pretty sure he meant 'when are they going to make an anime for this'.
No. 4725
>>4721
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRx8SgHxgyg
No. 4726
>1. When an anon erroneously grabs an obscure detail you made up off the top of your head and uses to justify a wrong conclusion, and everyone else bandwagons it.
Fun if it does no damage, but damning otherwise.

>2. When an anon correctly grabs an obscure detail you made up off the top of your head and uses it to guess the entire plot.
I can see how that's annoying, but it's proof that someone's paying attention. But they should keep it to themselves.

>3. When anon meticulously avoids any form of conflict.
Depends on the story, though this happens only if the lead seems weak.

>4. When anon suicides the protagonist into any conflict they can find.
Bad in general, more so if the lead is actually weak.

>5. When anon makes an obscure choice you did not want or expect them to make.
Prepare better then and not give choices you're not ready to write.

>6. When some anon makes a write-in that defuses the entire plot, and everyone bandwagons it.
Put your foot down unless you want a trainwreck to happen.

>7. When some anon makes a write-in that derails the protagonist's characterization, and everyone bandwagons it.
>8. When anon picks (inevitably) the choice you are least prepared for.
See my response to 5

>9. When anon gives a bunch of identical votes and no comments (partially the writer's fault).
Update faster and give stuff to inspire discussion. Fell did both thing right in The Game, and Glasnost's updates while slow, gives food for discussion.

>10. Having YAF post in the writer's thread.
More like "Insert Faggot Here" Posting in your thread, not a good sign. Either a shitstorm starts, or lesser faggots arrive to shit things up.
No. 4727
>>4719

Frankly? I'd say most of these are a) the writer's fault, or b) unavoidable.

That might just be me, anyway.
No. 4728
>>4726 Here, realizing I forgot my response to number 7.

>7. When some anon makes a write-in that derails the protagonist's characterization, and everyone bandwagons it.

If it's a blank "Anon type" see if it's in the bounds of change; if not put your foot down.

If it's a character with a preset personality, put your foot down.
No. 4729
>1. When an anon erroneously grabs an obscure detail you made up off the top of your head and uses to justify a wrong conclusion, and everyone else bandwagons it.

I don't mind. It's kind of funny when it happens, because I get to write the eventual failure of whatever dead end they're chasing, and they'll likely think more about obscure details and whether or not there's anything to them in the future.

>2. When an anon correctly grabs an obscure detail you made up off the top of your head and uses it to guess the entire plot.

I don't think this has happened yet. Well, not the entire plot, but then again, if someone does correctly guess what's going to happen, I try to find a way to mix it up a little.

>3. When anon meticulously avoids any form of conflict.

If there's one thing I like about conflict, it's that it doesn't have to wait for you to decide whether or not you're involved. You're part of it before you know it.

>4. When anon suicides the protagonist into any conflict they can find.

Maybe if I wrote stories with a bit more danger, this would be more prevalent. I suppose we'll see if I ever get around to writing Warlord.

>5. When anon makes an obscure choice you did not want or expect them to make.

The options I provide are the more clear cut choices with definitive and obvious results, but don't usually lead to a huge success or loss. Write in votes though can either be resoundingly successful, abysmal failures, or have subtle effects that may not be obvious at first.

>6. When some anon makes a write-in that defuses the entire plot, and everyone bandwagons it.

I retain my right as the writer to veto anything that would dismantle the plot and simply make it fail to work. Write ins are good for providing new angles to approach various issues without using the choices given, but just because they're written doesn't necessarily mean they have to work or be accepted. It's up to the writer to make the call whether or not their intended story or Anon's votes are the more important factor.

>7. When some anon makes a write-in that derails the protagonist's characterization, and everyone bandwagons it.

I'm not even sure I can maintain proper characterization in the first place. Also, once again, I can simply veto anything that changes things too drastically.

>8. When anon picks (inevitably) the choice you are least prepared for.

Typically results in month long dead zones before I update it again.

>9. When anon gives a bunch of identical votes and no comments (partially the writer's fault).

Not everyone has to have something to say. I appreciate the people that do post comments and have minor debates on various details however, and I will admit that more than once, ideas, speculation and comments Anon has on plot points has caused me to add various little bits that weren't originally considered as a nod to the audience.

>10. Having YAF post in the writer's thread.

As a mod, I can just delete shitposting in my own threads, so I'm not too concerned with this, actually. Not that it's happened yet, though.

>>4719

>picture

Get another 3 or 4 and you've got yourself the cast of a new Touhou game.
No. 4730
>>4729
>Get another 3 or 4

No More Heroes 2 added two more girls to the team, and made everyone 10 year-olds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRx8SgHxgyg
No. 4732
>1. When an anon erroneously grabs an obscure detail you made up off the top of your head and uses to justify a wrong conclusion, and everyone else bandwagons it.

A CYOA is a battle between anon and the writefag. Always stay two steps ahead and try to predict every possible outcome. Temporary derailment may occur. Permanent derailment requires some thought to correct, but all is not lost.

>2. When an anon correctly grabs an obscure detail you made up off the top of your head and uses it to guess the entire plot.

I try to keep the plot fluid and have several possible outcomes to a specific event to keep people guessing. It gets very, very convoluted at times and keeping it all together is particularly difficult. I generally have an overall concept of what I'd like to have happen, but the getting from point a to point b is all in the moment.

>3. When anon meticulously avoids any form of conflict.

Conflict is fun. It can be very easily thrown at the player for no particular reason, and there's no shortage of characters that can fit the role of doing so. I like to on occasion throw something into the mix on a whim to keep things lively. It doesn't necessarily have to have significance to the plot in this sort of medium.

>4. When anon suicides the protagonist into any conflict they can find.

Either adjust the PC to fit that role, or bad end like there's no tomorrow. There's not much that can be done otherwise.

>5. When anon makes an obscure choice you did not want or expect them to make.

I always want anon to throw something out of left field. It keeps things interesting and on occasion it'll give me ideas.

>6. When some anon makes a write-in that defuses the entire plot, and everyone bandwagons it.

Happened to me in SOW right from the start. I had to re-write the entire plot or else nothing would have happened. Ad-libbing skills can help.

>7. When some anon makes a write-in that derails the protagonist's characterization, and everyone bandwagons it.

Characterization can be fluid. I try not to keep my characters bound to a certain set of actions. Try your best to rationalize the action as the character would, and proceed accordingly. If the action is too outlandish, it can be toned down in most circumstances.

>8. When anon picks (inevitably) the choice you are least prepared for.

Always be prepared. As I stated previously, writing a CYOA is a battle of the minds. You must never allow yourself to be caught off-guard (lol).

>9. When anon gives a bunch of identical votes and no comments (partially the writer's fault).

Happens 99% of the time in most of my stories. Perhaps my work is boring, or perhaps I give no direction at all and anon gets lost. Or maybe my lack of updates is prohibitive in a sense to some higher brain functions. I try not to think about this one too much, so long as people are reading.

>10. Having YAF post in the writer's thread.

Maybe he can drum up some business for me, lol.
No. 4734
>>4721
Future real-life adaptionIn a March 15, 2008 interview with Computer and Video Games, Goichi Suda revealed that a possible real-life anime adaption of the series would be produced in the future, saying, "As you may know, our publisher, Marvelous, actually does a lot of animation work, so it's something that has been discussed. We were actually in discussions to do something with the Bizarre Jelly characters as seen on Travis' shirt, but I have no idea how serious they were. Hey, tell your readers if they want to see it, write in and give them the feedback. There's every chance it could get made."
No. 4735
>>4734
Oh gods no.

And yet...
No. 4736
As a loyal Suda-bitch, I will immediately buy this anime. Twice.
No. 4737
This entire site.
No. 4738
>>4737
While I did immediately reel back in my seat, compelled to shout "Ice burn!", I have to agree. Writing on this site, no matter how good, can and will not be taken seriously. The environment is terrible for anyone who wants a solid view of where they stand as an author or to improve in any significant way.
No. 4739
>>4738

While this is true, I really doubt it's what HY meant. He's made it very clear in the past that he pretty much hates the shit out of this place. Your 'ice burn' reflex was spot on.
No. 4740
>>4739
>He's made it very clear in the past that he pretty much hates the shit out of this place

Excuse me what?
No. 4741
>>4738
Folks like me come here not to overly critique stories, but to read nice ones. In short we'd tell you if it's complete shit, but not when it's flawed but good.
No. 4742
>>4738
>Writing on this site, no matter how good, can and will not be taken seriously.
What, precisely, does this mean? How do I take a story seriously, pray tell? Do I need to wear a monocle?

Yes, it's been firmly established that you aren't going to get writing advice or literary critique on THP, but you aren't going to get that anywhere else on the Internet, either. For that matter, you aren't going to get that in real life, short of enrolling in a writing workshop or trying to get something published. THP is good for writers only insofar as it gives them a chance to write some of those proverbial 'million bad words', but the fact is that most THP-tier writers are at a stage where they'll benefit more from that sort of practice than they would from a writing coach.
No. 4743
>>4741
So very true. There's a good handful of stories here that are badly written (grammar/syntax/spelling-wise) that I still like reading.
No. 4747
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4747
>>4742
If you haven't been wearing a monocle all this time, please remove yourself from the premises.

Have some decency, for goodness sake!
No. 4748
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4748
>>4747

Well said, my good dame! Gallivanting about town without a monocle? This cannot be so!

Would you care for a crumpet, Lady Yakumo?
No. 4749
File 127502203994.jpg - (270.40KB , 800x635 , siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiip.jpg ) [iqdb]
4749
I have no monocle, so instead I type with my pinkie extended.
No. 4750
I say, I do believe it is tea time my good chaps!
No. 4751
>>4741
>>4742
>>4743

?

>>4732
>A CYOA is a battle between anon and the writefag.
>battle

?

>Conflict is fun. It can be very easily thrown at the player for no particular reason ... It doesn't necessarily have to have significance to the plot in this sort of medium.
>conflict >no reason >no significance to the plot

>>4729
>I don't think this has happened yet. Well, not the entire plot, but then again, if someone does correctly guess what's going to happen, I try to find a way to mix it up a little.
>drop hints, foreshadow >pull bait-and-switch when readers read correctly >??? >profit

>Typically results in month long dead zones before I update it again.
>giving options for the sake of it

>>4726
>I can see how that's annoying, but it's proof that someone's paying attention. But they should keep it to themselves.
>discouraging discussion


I could do this all day.
No. 4752
>>4751
Gee, HY, you're right! We all suck! Why don't you come back and show us all how it's done? ...Oh, right.

>I could do this all day.
Well, yeah. Quoting people out of context and adding ever-so-witty one-liners is a lot easier than engaging in actual discussion.
No. 4753
>>4752
I don't see anything taken out of context. I see a lot of things that a writer should never have to deal with. Ever.
No. 4755
File 127506637450.jpg - (135.05KB , 500x500 , normaltexting in a greentexting thread.jpg ) [iqdb]
4755
>>4751
>?

!
No. 4756
>>4737
>>4751
>PIP PIP TALLY HO YOU BLOKES OUGHT TO TREAT WRITING TOEHOE FANFICTION AS THOUGH ITS A SOLEMN ENDEAVOR ON THE LEVEL OF REAL ART

When did you turn into YAF?
No. 4757
>>4752

What exactly was taken out of context here? I think he only said what most of us were thinking but too lazy to actually reply to because listening to writers bitch about stuff that's mostly their fault isn't exactly a fun past time.

Or is it?

Writers: If your thread spirals out of control, it is probably your fault. Learn to control your stories and this shit wont (can't) happen. For gods sake, you're in complete control of the story, if you don't like something anon does, you can do whatever the hell you please about it. Or you could always just put your foot down and tell us to shut the fuck up. We often listen.

Ever notice how certain writers have absolutely no trouble with managing their readers? You ever wonder why that is? No, its not because they have some magic stone that makes people stay orderly. Its because they know what the hell they are doing. The same people that are "turning your story into a pile of shit" are having thoughtful discussions in other stories.

I find this doubly depressing because some of you actually have some degree of talent, but with your attitudes will probably never amount to anything.

tl;dr: Instead of bitching, and spraying blame all over the place like some kind of immature super soaker, try actually analyzing what the hell you are doing wrong. Because believe me, if that shit is happening, you are doing it wrong.
No. 4758
>>4756
I think you're losing track of what the topic is here: Hateful things for writers. This site. A list of things that you can't justify, as a writer or a reader.

By pulling that card, you're saying there's no reason to write, no reason to read, and no reason to improve - thus proving HY right.
No. 4759
>>4756
>implying any creative writing is not "real" art
>back-handedly belittling every story here by placing it in some automatically 'lesser' category just because it's fanfiction on the internet, negating quality, narrative, reader enjoyment, etc
>managing to insult everything far more than I have just done, probably without even realising it

PIP PIP
No. 4760
>>4756
And for that matter.

>implying art should be 'solemn' and serious business rather than deeply affecting and enjoyable.

You sir are a cad and scoundrel.
No. 4761
>>4759
>>4759
>implying that the wish fulfillment of subliterate neckbeards and discussions of how to rape little magical girls constitutes writing
>seriously believing that fanfiction should be considered as being on the same level as published works
>pissing and moaning about shit that only you, YAF, Owen and the other pretentious fuckwads who think they’re artists care about as proof of how the site sucks when people have fun on it every day

WOT WOT
No. 4762
>>4760
>>4760
And for that matter.

>implying that I was implying that art should be 'solemn' and serious business when that's what you were doing in >>4751.

You sir are a fag and a rapscallion.
No. 4763
>>4759
>>4760
>>4761
>>4762

You, sirs, are both cods and scallops.

Seriously though, you're both being faggots. Leave and cool off or something.
No. 4764
>>4761
>>4762
I'm not even sure where to begin with you. I'm encouraging improvement, suggesting writers should pay attention and care about their stories, and you're ... what? Saying it's better to wallow in "the wish fulfillment of subliterate neckbeards and discussions of how to rape little magical girls"?

You're pretty much making the case against this place all on your own here. Hope you're having fun doing that!
No. 4765
Why are you guys taking a Wiseman thread seriously.
No. 4766
File 127507863883.jpg - (93.85KB , 480x640 , d15a034c9eb00dc309c16a8e572afd7e.jpg ) [iqdb]
4766
>>4763
Is that so~?
No. 4767
>>4764
>trying to save face after getting attacked for hating everything on the site and pissing on the efforts of people who aren't as jaded and bitter as you by claiming that you're just trying to "encourage improvement" and "suggest that they pay attention and care about their stories" when there are much more effective ways of getting the message across if that was your intention
No. 4768
>>4767
Saying the site sucks isn't the same as saying everything and everyone on it sucks. Indeed, improvement just isn't something to be found when you write here. As long as you recognize that and write here as a hobby, there's nothing wrong with it.

And stop this >implying tomfoolery. I'd like to think we're a class above /v/.
No. 4770
File 127508046328.jpg - (320.38KB , 660x907 , 55f7f08808c5ac9d8fdbd2fa307da386.jpg ) [iqdb]
4770
>>4767
>ignore points
>make personal attack
>???
>profit!
No. 4771
>>4764
I am not sure how one is meant to derive a positive message of encouragement from >>4737.

But hey, thanks for finally explaining why you're posting in this thread at all. If you ever feel like giving writing advice in a format other than greentext and >implying, I, for one, will be listening.
No. 4773
>>4768

Well, a quick glance at the site shows an abundance of touhou. I guess we're more on topic than /v/, at least.
No. 4774
File 127508082136.png - (336.74KB , 642x482 , 1270161083529.png ) [iqdb]
4774
>Hy being an Idiot.

Don't like it? Change it.
Don't want it? Leave.
No. 4775
>>4774
I seriously thought that said putting butter up your butt.
No. 4776
File 127510717457.jpg - (481.21KB , 800x651 , ae34a75f7d70d5432e8db535c33995db.jpg ) [iqdb]
4776
Anyone saying that you can't improve by writing here is speaking out their arse. Look at all of us. Look at how bad most of us started out and compare it to the current status of our stories. Look at the start of Scorn's story. BAKA-KUN. And that moved on to become one of the most-loved stories on this site.
Even if we get bugger all creative input from anons or fellow writers there's that one simple thing about writing.

You get better at it the more you do it.


But HY already said he's the best writer on this site so obviously he knows more about writing than any of us.

>>4774
Now that's bad writing. And horrendous use of punctuation.
No. 4778
Just want to emphasize >>4757 since people seem to have completely missed it in their bickering, it's a point that really isn't made often enough.

The CYOA thing is a nice way to tailor your story to your audience, but if you're trying to write an actual story with a plot, you can't just hand the wheel over to anon with no directions. They'll drive in circles for 20 threads until they run out of gas or launch it off a cliff. The first run of Teruyo's /eientei/ story is probably the most obvious example, and there's the Yuuka story on /coriander/ that barely made it to the second thread because anon wasn't making the story interesting enough for the writer. That's completely backwards thinking, it won't and can't ever work that way. You're the writer, you have to write the story.

also HY when did you become so intolerably smug?
No. 4779
>>4776
You forget that older stories get more slack than newer ones.

One can improve, but only to a certain point due to things like "Early sex is bad durr", never minding the fact Belonymous boinked Remilia before the ending.
No. 4780
>>4779

If you want to take the same thing I just said but apply it to newer stories, then just take a look at Krisslanza.
No. 4784
>>4780
That was an outright bad story. I meant that if someone were to try to write a story with SDM LA or FLA's level of quality, people would complain. Despite people's fond memories, SDM LA was nice, but flawed in many spots. Stories have become generally better tuned and ironed out since then. Most of the long running stories have adjusted themselves with the times.

When HY and YAF started writing again recently, some folks raised the question of how their writing would stand up to the higher standard today. So far the answers are "Pretty well so far" (HY) "Shittier than ever"(YAF)
No. 4785
I love you HY.
No. 4786
File 127513202838.jpg - (592.28KB , 1024x1280 , 357d903cc9213e96f26503cae16a0a1a.jpg ) [iqdb]
4786
>>4776
>Look at how bad most of us started out and compare it to the current status of our stories.

PAHAHAHAHA

Are you serious? You're serious.

>But HY already said he's the best writer

I've never said this, I've never even implied this. Seeing you make this assumption is rather puzzling at best, and perhaps quite telling!

>One can improve, but only to a certain point due to things like "Early sex is bad durr"

Writers here + audience are so deeply, deeply fucked up about sex that it isn't even something I can laugh about. Again and again, stories exhibit "SEX = CONSEQUENCES", and the audience actively complain when sex scenes are 'too easy to get' or 'too early', even foregoing the old fade-to-black routine if the writer doesn't want to write porn. Seriously now, sexual negativity all up in this bitch, I expect less repression from a group of young men on the internet. The way everyone accepted Owen's extremely fucked up sex = death & punishment thing back in ASSM makes sense now in light of the fact you all feel guilty for wanting to bang Touhous.

>>4784
>higher standard today

You mean the way everyone complains if the story moves outside of simple heart-string tugging and the massive, massive moralfaggotry around these parts?

>>4785
I love you too~
No. 4789
>>4786

Thanks for the encouragement, HY. Thanks a fucking lot.
No. 4790
>>4786
>You mean the way everyone complains if the story moves outside of simple heart-string tugging and the massive, massive moralfaggotry around these parts?

Please continue your story HY. I mean it, and I still fucking love you.
No. 4791
You know, there's a difference between a critic and an asshole. I mean, sure, they overlap most of the time, but there's still a difference.

You're sort of leaning towards 'asshole,' HY.
No. 4792
File 127514617881.png - (110.06KB , 544x384 , c28836cd95dfb59547870abcab3e0316.png ) [iqdb]
4792
>I love you too~

>you all feel guilty for wanting to bang Touhous.
Not without earning it. Getting them without earning is like reading Mind the Gap - Senseless sex scenes like watching porn. Just the damn annoying moralfags screaming "omg pedo" when you talk about wanting Cirno or Flandre.
Flandre is the hottest Touhou anyway.
No. 4793
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4793
>>4786

>Writers here + audience are so deeply, deeply fucked up yadda yadda sex

I can plainly say I agree on all points. There's a huge difference between "porn with plot" and "porn with a cup of FUCK YOU".

>>4792

>Flandre is the hottest Touhou anyway.

Moekou would like to have a word with you, good sir.
No. 4794
>>4792
>earning
What the hell are you talking about? It's a story. Sometimes there's sex in it, sometimes there's violence, sometimes there's humor, sometimes there's drama, etc. Where are you getting this ridiculous idea that you can't have sex until you're a hero? Or that sex is "senseless" if it isn't the girl you plan to marry and you haven't spent 20 threads wooing her yet?
No. 4796
>>4742
>THP is good for writers only insofar as it gives them a chance to write some of those proverbial 'million bad words'
>>4751
>?

>>4776
>Look at how bad most of us started out and compare it to the current status of our stories.
>>4786
>Are you serious? You're serious.

So are you saying that practice isn't a good way to get better at writing, or that nobody gets better at writing as a result of running a story on THP? Because I don't agree with either statement.
No. 4798
>>4794
VN faggotry and/or a puritan based society for Anon is mostly american.

Though Teruyo didn't help much with any choice aiming at anything sexy resulting in comically bad backfires, such as a certain male body part being snapped.

>>4786
>You mean the way everyone complains if the story moves outside of simple heart-string tugging and the massive, massive moralfaggotry around these parts?

Stories are progressing, and even beyond such bullshit cliches even. Sure it's slow, but it's some sort of progress.

If I didn't know any better, I'd think people's problems with MCs having sex with Touhous is latent Yurifaggotry.
No. 4799
>>4798
Teruyo is one of the most screwed up people here regarding sex and just relationships in general. Have you seen DoaLF 2 recently, with the protagonist awkwardly trying to hook up with Kaguya? The way he writes it, they have zero chemistry and seem like they'd be miserable together. And then Kaguya tells him to spend more time with Eirin because she (unlike Kaguya) actually seems to be interested in him, supposedly out of pity for her or something. If he hadn't been talking so often about wanting to write Kaguya route, I'd think he was writing her as being 100% uninterested but inadvertently stringing him along because she can't bring herself to break his heart (pretty much the most depressing possible relationship situation), and the Eirin thing is her dropping a huge hint.

I'd say I expect another snow end, but now Kaguya seems to be forcing herself into a relationship with him (based on a two-paragraph timeskip covering "the enjoyable days" of the past few months, after pages and pages of detailed awkwardness and discomfort, I wonder why that is), so maybe this time they'll live miserably ever after.
No. 4800
If I may ask, why are sex and romance so damn important, again? Many times I've seen anon just sort of assume romancing Toehoes is going to be a goal in the story without the plot really giving an indication of that. Leftover eroge instincts, maybe?
No. 4802
>>4800
Same reason almost every story in the world has at least a romantic subplot. People really like it.
No. 4803
>>4800
How many "stories" here try for anything beyond being the wish-fulfillment fantasies of whatever neckbeard is writing them? Most have no plot or conflict worth mentioning, and most of them don’t even have relationships worth mentioning either. How many more times do you fags need to see “Nameless Mary Sue winds up in a magical land full of women and unaccountably succeeds in getting them all to fall in love him when they would realistically either ignore or eat him” before you get bored with it?
No. 4804
>>4800
People fall in love, and what >>4802 said.
No. 4805
>>4803
I don't think you've read many stories here.
No. 4806
>>4805
Name a story that disproves my claim.
No. 4807
>>4806

A Fairy's Tale. There, there's one. You can find one or two more if you ever bother to look, but I doubt you will. You could, of course, state that there are far more stories that support your claim (and you would be right), but you didn't even bother. You challenged someone outright to search for something to prove you wrong, as if you knew for sure that you simply couldn't be false. I think the guy you quoted is right; you really haven't read many stories here.
No. 4808
>>4807
>You challenged someone outright to search for something to prove you wrong, as if you knew for sure that you simply couldn't be false.

Or I wanted to show that the most successful "stories" are the ones that match my description
No. 4809
>>4808

Hm. What about "Resonant with Vivid Tones"? Granted, I haven't updated it in forever, but still.
No. 4810
File 127517243197.jpg - (32.49KB , 300x360 , depressed man.jpg ) [iqdb]
4810
>>4808

Flea doesn't.
>successful
oh wait
No. 4811
I should really remember to put in a password some time 'cause I just remembered I was gonna say this too.
It's shown up in my story and I know mine isn't the only story that it has happened in, but there is that whole thing where choices involving the possibility of sex get far more votes and attention than any other kind.
No. 4812
>>4811

It's not like this is surprising, though, or unique to THP. Sex sells, no matter where you go, or what the medium.
No. 4814
>>4806
>>4808
Pretty much what's said in >>4807 :
Whether you're right or not is no longer important. You've been revealed to be not only a dick, but you can't even bother to be familiar with the material being discussed.

You're being a combative asshole for no other reason than that you can, and we don't need people like you here. Any point you were trying to make is now irrelevant because you're merely trying to start shit, not ask reasonable questions or bring up well-thought-out, insightful points.

Or you're trolling, and that means you fail three times over: Once for trolling at all, twice for doing it badly, and thrice for getting caught.
No. 4815
>>4814

He could always pull the YAF card and say "I WAS TROLLING YOU ALL ALONG HOW DOES THAT MAKE YOU FEEL", but that would make him fail once more.
No. 4816
>>4815
Is it even possible to fail here?

This thread is shit.
No. 4817
>>4799
>Teruyo is one of the most screwed up people here regarding sex and just relationships in general.
Goddamn, this a thousand times this.
And the rest too.
>I'd say I expect another snow end
You just take the words out of my mouth.
Reading a new update leaves me often clueless and planless because i have no idea what now.

>This thread is shit.
And this. HY successfully trolled everyone. But he has a point: This Site just can't take it easy anymore and is angry and takes everything serious. For example GH. Every Thread was War.
No. 4819
>And this. HY successfully trolled everyone.

Holy crap, it seems like nowadays all it takes to "get trolled" is to make a counterargument to any statement one doesn't agree with.

I would like to inquire as to the prevalence of this mindset, if you'll forgive my lack of a monocle (Cirno broke it).
No. 4820
Dammit, people, I just want to have fun here writing and reading about touhou.
No. 4821
>>4799
If things seem awkard and unsure then that means I've done a good job. That's been the whole point. For the most part the choices have been trying to encourage the readers to seek an end to that. Yes, even the last choice. I'll disagree about the lack of chemistry observation, if only because previous events and how people reacted then seem to disprove that. Like I said, in the present, things are far from perfect despite what the protagonist believes.

What bothers me about your post isn't your cynical and condemning outlook as much as it is the fact that you seem to have bothered to read the story but have not expressed these issues and concerns in any thread. At the least your peers may have agreed and perhaps someone would have pointed out something relevant and, if not, it would tell me what people thought. I cannot read minds. Neither can anyone else on this site. Which is why I've been such a fervent champion of open discussion in stories. I'm sure most people want to enjoy the stories on this site.

>>4817
>>4799
>I'd say I expect another snow end [...]
I'll abandon civility for this one issue: Fuck you both. Instead of doomsaying and washing your hands how about trying to do something about things? There is no excuse to give up and I have never encouraged you to. Quite the contrary, I've given every chance for you to be proactive and steer things in the direction you want it to go.

If you are going reply to this post and/or take any more unreasonably fatalistic attitudes at the very least have the decency to do it in one of my threads, where it's relevant. If you read anything I write bitching is more than fine, as long as you do your best to vote your way to what you want or try to convince others to do so. If you don't participate, I don't care about your opinion about how I'm the worst or have a warped view about relationships or whatever and much less about what you think of what I write. I'm sure people also don't want to see moaning about any story anywhere that's not appropriate (ie: other stories or in entirely irrelevant discussions).

Huh, I guess I kinda covered the (original) thread subject with this post as well.

>>4820
In the end I think everyone here does.

PS: Wiseman, please for the love of all that's good don't start up with how I haven't been 'forgiven' or whatever again please.
No. 4822
So, I don't know where else to ask this. Does anyone have a link to that Pastebin log of J to the E explaining "Lorris" and the presence of Meta Knight in his story?
No. 4823
>>4822

I don't, but could the one who does post a picture of a sword-wielding Kana? It always bugged me about how nobody ever posted a picture of that even though the whole 'Katanakana' debacle begged for it.

>>4820

Stole the words right outta my mouth.

In my opinion everything the OP listed is just a fun challenge to overcome or work with, there's no reason to put more thought into it than that.
No. 4824
>>4822

http://pastebin.ca/raw/1645781

If you lose it again, look in that thread in /blue/ with the green lex luthor OP image.
No. 4825
>>4824
Oh god, it still exists.

The only important thing in that crap-pile is in the first paragraph. Chen got a bike. Rejoice.
No. 4826
>>4823

Also, I would provide such a picture, but both danbooru and gelbooru have failed me. It's also too late and I'm too tired to pursue any further search.
No. 4828
The fuck happened to this thread.
No. 4829
>>4828
Well, since we were able to explain the causes of/reasons behind the initial list of complaints, HY decided to acidly reply to a few posts, and then everything spiraled out of control in the ensuing storm of replies back and forth.

That's what happened.
No. 4830
>>4829
In other words, someone let the primates out of their cages and they started hurling fecal matter at each other.
No. 4831
>>4830

You're implying they had cages.
No. 4833
File 127525679595.jpg - (162.07KB , 650x650 , iloveyou.jpg ) [iqdb]
4833
>>4830
My work here is done~
No. 4846
>>4833

>He could always pull the YAF card and say "I WAS TROLLING YOU ALL ALONG HOW DOES THAT MAKE YOU FEEL", but that would make him fail once more.

sigh.jpg
No. 4848
>>4824

Oh god, I never actually read that before. The only thing I remember about that guy was seeing a thread with metaknight as the OP picture, and nearly having an aneurysm while trying to contemplate the kind of person that would think such a crossover was a good idea.

Thanks for a good 15 minutes of laughter. Really made my day.
No. 4849
>>4846

The difference here is that he pointed out some perfectly legitimate things. And to be honest, he wasn't even being a jerk about it in the first place. I swear, people here need thicker skins and cooler heads.
No. 4850
File 127527254884.jpg - (111.20KB , 386x630 , the little youkai that could.jpg ) [iqdb]
4850
>>4846
When did I ever say I was trolling? Silly Anonymous, reading things into the words of a little hungry youkai.
No. 4857
Well. Guess HY's now lumped with YAF. Yay.
No. 4863
Meanwhile, in a parallel dimension... >>/sdm/37886
No. 4864
>>4848
Wasn't he the same writefag who managed to write Sonic of all things into his story?
No. 4865
File 127531179021.jpg - (244.04KB , 800x566 , atleastshesbetterthanamyrose.jpg ) [iqdb]
4865
>>4864

SUDDENLY
No. 4871
>>4864
That was some other faggot.
No. 4879
>>4864

Okay, I must have missed this, somehow. Please tell me someone has it archived and is willing to upload it for me? Call it morbid curiosity.
No. 4880
>>4879

According to the archive, it's Catastrophe of Imperious Dreams: http://www.sentrygun.com/touhou/threads/others_CoID_01.zip

Thank you, archive guy... I think.
No. 4885
>>4865
Sonic knows the Spirit Gun?

Did I win the prize for overwhelming faggotry? Am I J>E, yet?
No. 4887
File 127538189140.jpg - (267.57KB , 512x448 , sonic_cd_intro.jpg ) [iqdb]
4887
I remember when Sonic was the absolute shit.

/feels old

Where did we go wrong?
No. 4890
This thread is depressing.

What happened to you, HY?
No. 4891
File 12753955005.png - (243.45KB , 485x480 , Bobakonga.png ) [iqdb]
4891
>>4719
Little late to the bash, I am, but let me tell you I laughed heartily at your list.

Cheers! You're the best, mate! This is for you!
No. 4895
>>4891
Update you lazy nigger.
No. 4898
File 127540675425.jpg - (41.72KB , 500x567 , 1272949067211.jpg ) [iqdb]
4898
>>4895
Just did.

Question to those who still keep up with what's going on. Hell did you do to HY to make him so bitter? I swear I'm genuinely down about this...

Oh, and ignore the picture. Couldn't find a sad-looking Kut-Ku.
No. 4899
>>4898
He must have woken up one day and said "the site sucks, i hate them all."
No. 4900
>>4899
The sentiment shared by us all. Yet we keep coming back.
No. 4902
>>4898

You're pretty much just going to have to ask him yourself. I have no doubt that his opinion on the matter will be tainted with his bitterness, but if you ask him and everyone else, you might be able to figure out how it happened.

...Also, I don't know. While I still visited THP during the time when whatever happened happened, I only visited very rarely due to being very busy, so short of my lazy ass actually looking back through the archives, I'm lost. I was here during ADP, but I was still busy then, as well, so my memory is more than a bit fuzzy on whatever happened then, as well.
No. 4908
Fact: You can have the worse of shit happen, but always have time to A) Flame people and B) Go to IRC.
No. 4909
>>4908

IRC takes no time, and minimal thought. You can do it on the toilet, for chrissake.

Flaming people too, I guess.
No. 4911
...I just want to write stories and use them to bond with my audience, and also I like Touhou.

I like to write my story. It's fun. Even if only one person votes--well, to be honest, if only one person votes I usually whine and plead and act all dramatic about it, but secretly, even that one vote alone makes my entire weekend.

...and I don't know how else to say the rest of what I want to say, so I'll say this: I love writing, and I love Anonymous.

That's all. Sorry.
No. 4912
File 127547347223.jpg - (52.90KB , 473x600 , kutkurage_display.jpg ) [iqdb]
4912
>>4902
I would, but knowing our past relationship, I fear that would only deepen his ire, and I'm not too keen on risking sparking any more internet drama. I suppose I'll just wait and hope somebody explains this crock...

Curses, HY, you silly knob-sack! You used to be one of the more decent people on the site!

>>4911
Mad props to you, mate. You remind me why I stuck to this site in the first place. High-five.
No. 4913
Why are people ragging on HY? He was responding to idiots whining about stupid shit that is their own fault. Pointing out the stupid parts without ragging on them more than that. If anything he was being nice by not going into detail why you were being retarded. You know, letting you think about it and come to a mature decision instead of forcing it down your throat.

Maybe you should sit back and think about what he's pointing out instead of having a knee-jerk reaction.
No. 4914
>>4913

This.
No. 4915
>>4913

Because he was being a dick. good intentions or not, there are far better ways to get your point across.
No. 4916
File 127549753365.jpg - (944.05KB , 1000x1333 , get back to work Teruyo.jpg ) [iqdb]
4916
>>4911
This is probably what HY thought in the beginning too. But somehow he got lost on the way.
He never really gave a reason outside of IRC and labeled Anon as stupid faggots who are not worth his time. And he is not the only one. Many old writers think like that. They say Anon nowadays is not what he used to be, he got stupid and does not take it easy anymore. And many more mean things.
Who knows, maybe they are right, maybe they are wrong. It's just opinion.
No. 4917
>>4915
>>4916

These.

It would be nice if he actually pointed anything useful out (though yes, SEX = CONSEQUENCES sometimes), but what he did was greentext and tilde.
No. 4918
>>4916

As one of the early writers, I can plainly say that my opinion of Anon is the same as it was when I started writing. That isn't a bad thing, by the way.
No. 4919
>>4911

I love you.
No. 4920
>>4915
>Because he was being a dick

I disagree with you. I think he was doing fine, at least until he banned YAF on his own thread. But that was the only negative thing he ever did, everything else he was ok to me.
>>4916
>They say Anon nowadays is not what he used to be, he got stupid and does not take it easy anymore

But that's true. We really changed, and it's not Kira's fault.
No. 4921
HY can kindly go fuck himself, though.
No. 4922
>>4920
Wait, what? The conversation is about dickish things HY may or may not have done in this thread, not in ages past.
No. 4925
>>4920
Anon always had a stupid streak, it's only recently they got it mostly under control. And the attitude stems from the reputation of "Being better than Pooshlmer and Shrinemaiden", which I doubt at times when I see faggotry mixed with empty elitism.

Say what you will about the faggots on those two sites, but you don't see them with the logs up the ass the faggots here do.
No. 4930
File 127554000845.jpg - (206.93KB , 750x563 , surprise! it is a prize!.jpg ) [iqdb]
4930
Surprise is a prize and we're here to allow you to look for it. If you find it, you've got a prize! How surprising!

Now make a Kogasa doll.

I'd talk more, but I've not much time to talk. Time is time, but there's never enough of it to engorge even the craziest person.
No. 4931
Its all YAFs fault.
No. 4935
>>4931
So, we'll hate him, because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian. A watchful protector. A Dark Knight.
No. 4936
>>4935
On the off chance you arent YAF, that was a really retarded thing to post.
No. 4938
>>4936
I concur.
No. 4939
File 127557163610.jpg - (401.48KB , 1600x1200 , c24f72835fb144127d591f50bc7be009.jpg ) [iqdb]
4939
>Its all YAFs fault.
Sounds like a plan. I bring the torches, someone else the forks and we are ready to go.
No. 4940
>>4935
So he's the kind of shitty writer the site doesn't need, but deserves?

That's fucking cold, man.
No. 4947
File 127560588738.jpg - (47.08KB , 500x573 , 1273407132244.jpg ) [iqdb]
4947
>>4935
No. 4949
File 12756106047.jpg - (35.50KB , 620x400 , i am supposed to be rumia not the joker.jpg ) [iqdb]
4949
>>4947
>>4940
>>4935
No. 4950
File 127561298828.jpg - (95.10KB , 420x300 , 1251842254713.jpg ) [iqdb]
4950
Best Thread on THP.
No. 4952
>>4949
To be honest I'd thought that YAF would be the joker, not sure about the batman.

and about the picture name: Is that so~?
No. 4953
>>4947
I totally read that as 'Haters gonna Skate'
I lol'd a bit.
No. 4957
>>4953
That would be funny.
No. 5025
To Writers: Don't you hate it when some of anon keeps on going against the story's direction despite evidence to the contrary (Word of God included)
No. 5027
>>5025

Of course. But you deal with it. If the majority wills it, fold or compromise. If just one person wants it, you may be able to just ignore them.
No. 5028
>>5025

Looks more like a writefag fail to me.
No. 5029
>>5027
Even at expense of the story itself? I thought it's why certain stories died, the writer tried to bend, bend and bend the story until one day it just broke.

>>5028
For the most part yeah, though I think an exception would be clarifying a character's appearance/mentality/etc. Since in what I'm talking about he makes himself clear, but no one listens.

Poor Taisa
No. 5034
>>5029
>Even at expense of the story itself? I thought it's why certain stories died, the writer tried to bend, bend and bend the story until one day it just broke.

There are two options:

1- The story you are referring to is most likely Fairy Maid, where the issue was not the content, but how fast it was entered. HY touted it as light, fluffy story with sex. Anon liked that.

2- Sometimes, authors just lose interest. It's simple as that, and may have little to do with the direction of the story. If you can't handle the story going a different direction, why are you writing a CYOA?
No. 5038
>>5034
But some tried to go against the flow of it by rushing the sex. That and there's the "Sex is bad unless 'eared'" crowd.

There is a difference between a reasonable change in direction and just going off the rails. Fairy Maid was more in the former than latter. IPF might have been an example of the latter.
No. 5040
>>5038

The thing that got him pissed was that Anon decided to 'mount up' instead of starting with a blowjob.
No. 5043
>>5040
Say whaaaat?

I pity the fool who don't start with the mouth.
No. 5045
>>5040
That was still a form of going against the flow in the fashion of trying to rush down it. I've had to tell folks early in Mind the Gap to take it easy and not rush.
No. 5076
>>5038
>That and there's the "Sex is bad unless 'eared'" crowd.
I'll assume you meant "earned", because - to the best of my knowledge - all of the Touhou cast possess ears.

My problem with rushed sex is just that - it's rushed. Sex scenes coming out of seemingly nowhere, that leaves me feeling like they're really out-of-place. Random, just-because sex may happen in real life (to the fortunate), but in a work of fiction, it's pointless, uninvolving, and distracting - in other words, a bad thing for fiction.

I don't so much care about "earning" a sex scene as I do about establishing character between participants A and B (and sometimes C), thus also establishing that, yes, this is something that said characters would do, and here's why.
No. 5080
>>5076
This. Very much so.
No. 5082
>>5076

This. A million times this.

This is actually something that, in general, is a flaw with most stories here. If you actually break it down, most stories will have the girl falling in love with the protagonist within approximately 1 - 2 days "in story" time. Or at the very least, she will act as a friend to him as if they had known each other for months or years.

This always feels really rushed to me, and really pulls me out of the story. Its like, you're telling me that in two days this guy, who is actually acting kind of like a complete dick, manages to win over Reimu, the god damn shrine maiden of paradise? And does so to such a degree she'll take his side over friends she's known her whole life. Even if the things the guy is doing are completely reprehensible?

Yeah, doesn't really make for very good characterization, does it?

It might seem like I'm just describing YAF's old shrine story, but really, this applies to quite a few stories on the boards. Even stories that don't even have sex scenes or "get the girl" elements at all.

Remember writers, how the other characters are reacting to the protagonist needs to actually match up to how well they know the protagonist, how close they are, and what the guy has actually done.
No. 5087
>>5082
And what you should remember is that the win-over-a-girl-in-two-days-time sort of deal was in demand back then. Nowadays? No idea, I don't read anything other than Broand's story on the site, and mine is set several months after the protagonist entered Gensokyo. Or did he?

Anyhow, what you're describing is precisely the type of CYOA THP did earlier on, and to this day does, desire. This is not a board for high, mid, or even low-class literature, there is no reason to be ashamed of utilising hackneyed stereotypes, no need to cower from clichés, tropes or bad grammar. This is a board for Touhou fan-fiction, made for sheer enjoyment of meddling with our favourite setting, not for any sort of artistic merit, or some esoteric scientific value. Just pure fun. There is nothing more, nothing less to it. Though, how 'less' than a story that consists only of H-scenes can you get? Not much, I reckon.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not disagreeing with you, just saying your advice may be a bit displaced here. /at/, for one, would probably argue...

Polite sage.
No. 5090
>>5082

I believe scorn put it most eloquently, paraphrased here: "No one wants to read through a few years of their lives as they become friends and eventually fall in love."

This is especially common when cast in the light of the strained relationship between CYOA writers and timeskips, i.e. most don't seem to like them.

This is present on the reader's part, too, to some extent- relinquishing control of the character is something they tend to resent. Well, at least a couple have in the past, don't quote me on this one.

It's a delicate balance, certainly, but it can be handled- see "Let's Goooo" and "Fragmentation of Memories" for some good examples.
No. 5095
>>5076
true mostly, though there's always exceptions, such as the Yuyuko Love Scene in AGLA, which caused a bit of a stir in some places from people who follow the "Sex must be earned" mantra. We must consider that Gensokyo doesn't really follow modern day western ways, so things would be different than what we're used to, more so with different races. I'd imagine that the Oni might not mind some 'no strings' fun.

>>5082
There's your problem, stop reading his early stuff. That and wasn't YAF's Reimu something of a bitch?

The other points have been answered.

>>5087
Very true for various reasons. But people expected more out of THP due to the early writers who despite what flaws their works had, had promise to be more than mere "fan fiction writers". Thus people wanted to pursue artistic advancement or fame.

Problem with the artistic type is the tendency of them to go and leave due to feeling this place stifles them. On the flip side fame-seekers quit when they fail to get the fame they 'deserve'.

But we have folks who write for the fun of it, they're the ones most likely to finish their stories.

I think the perfect example of a modern story that while full of cliches, still very enjoyable is GH. But people want higher quality as to claim that this is better than fanfiction.net.

But on the opposite end are stories like Crue's (WEIRD,CAVE,SIN) and AGLA. Both require more thinking and such than your average fare, and as a result, not as wildly popular as certain stories. AGLA is a partial exception, rather popular, but no less mentally draining.

What's left are the normal stories and 'perfect' stories (Stories that artfully made, push the standard forward, and have mass appeal). As expected there's only 2-3 cases of the latter that finished.

In short, writers should try to focus on their vision and fun, not so much advancement or fame. That's what Fell did and look where it got him.
No. 5096
>>5090

>"No one wants to read through a few years of their lives as they become friends and eventually fall in love."

That is what makes good characterization. You can't just have two characters who literally just met fall in love. You, as a writer, have to earn that scenario by building it up in a believable manner.

I would also wager a guess that yes, people would want to read about that. That is kind of how books generally work. The longer the buildup the better the payoff. I'm not saying we need to have several novels worth of buildup first, but to have it happen on the second "in game" day is just awkward no matter how you look at it. Do you honestly think I'm going to care about a character relationship if it just appeared out of nowhere? No, I'm not. So when you try to create dramatic tension using that relationship as leverage, it is not going to work. Whoops, there goes drama. Goodbye drama, it was nice knowing you.

I'm not even saying that stories here suck because of it. They don't. But I am saying that it really sticks out like a sore thumb, and breaks and suspension of disbelief, thereby making your stories not as good as they could be.

Yes, there are ways to go work around it, but very few writers here seem to even notice that it is happening in the first place, let alone do anything to correct for it.

Not that we have many writers who even fucking finish their stories in the first place. Which I believe might sometimes have something to do with the writer painting them in a corner by trying to take shortcuts and finding their story unfulfilling later on because of it.
No. 5097
>>5096
I think that good characterization is more than just the passage of time and its effects. I do agree with pretty much everything else that you've said. Romance in novels has its buildup and often occurs in the span of weeks, months and even years. I always felt that the highlight of War and Peace was how the characters interacted with each other over the years and how marriage and love were two very different things that developed very differently.

On the more practical side, I would have to bring up the point that most stories here are interactive and thus any large lapse in time could be seen as a copout. There are ways around that but when every choice seemingly does so much to move the story it is increasingly harder to justify longer absences. Particularly if the character is a blank slate and has no predefined personality in the beginning.

All of this said, in what I've written I've tried to integrate the passage of time as naturally as the context allows. It's not always painless and sometimes might seem even a bit jarring but I think ultimately the narrative is stronger for it. I've experimented quite a bit and I think gotten better at leading up and then following up on these breaks.

I have to stress that there isn't anything wrong with those stories that boil down to 'meet x, bed x only a few days later'. They can be fun but I personally tend to not enjoy those as much as something more well-paced. There isn't any shame in relative instant gratification nor in wanting to win someone over quickly. It's just not always to my taste.

>Not that we have many writers who even fucking finish their stories in the first place. Which I believe might sometimes have something to do with the writer painting them in a corner by trying to take shortcuts and finding their story unfulfilling later on because of it.

In my personal experience, as things move along there is a tendency for there to be less energy amongst the fanbase. This translates into less energy from me. I've gone at length about the importance of getting into things with mixed results. On the one hand, there is a little more scrutiny, but on the other there is less turnout. Additionally I find it distressing when there's nothing but a 'I like this' - or its equivalent - over the course of several updates. It puts me off and it makes me wonder if the effort I put in the details and underlying themes and motifs is worth it and leads to less enthusiasm on my part. It's not about praise for me, it's about feeling that there's a real connection with the story. To that end I'd wish for a little bit more of commentary about content. Detractors would say that anything worth talking about would be talked about but they're often not the ones reading anyways.

>>5095
I don't even know where to begin with you. The controversy surrounding your example is not that "sex must be earned" but that it has to be contextually sound. This means that in a story focused on character development it should serve to further that aim. On the flipside on a 'fun' and 'mindless' romp sex needs no context other than being pleasurable for audience and participants. I seriously doubt that there a group of people on the site who categorically oppose sex scenes if they fit in neatly to the established type of narrative.

>There's your problem, stop reading his early stuff.

It is my personal belief that his current project is no better than his earlier stuff. I read TS and all that came from it and I can't bring myself to follow the current endeavor. I read parts, skim otherwise and I can tell you I've found no evidence of redemption. He may have improved on the technical side of the writing but the same taint of a farce trying to take itself seriously remains. I'm a live and let live sort of person but not only have the points of the person you replied to not been completely covered, those that have are as myself and others have shown not been satisfactory answers, but you've glossed over his legitimate concern.

Really your theory of fame and fortune made me shake my head. I can only think of less than a handful of would-be writers that had ego issues or wished for fame (YAF prominent amongst them). I will not attempt to put words into their mouths as you have ('stifle them' for example) but I feel that a lot of writers simply wish for their stories to be enjoyed in earnest. This means consistent participation in their stories. From what I've gathered through conversation with several of them, a little critical thinking is also welcome - as in, enjoying the story for what it is and what it delivered, not what has happened elsewhere just what has happened in the story. My personal wants (above) may overlap with that of some other writers but I cannot generalize.

There really aren't words for your beliefs concerning standards and their 'advancement'. The distinction between 'modern' story and (I assume) 'classic' is completely arbitrary. Not only do some of the first authors still write and start up new stories with varying degrees of popularity but stories change over time in their content and direction. Distinction between 'good', 'bad' and 'perfect' isn't worth getting into. People enjoy what they read and there is no objective measure of a 'classic'. We are much too small and fragmented a community to ever have that sort of consensus.

I'll agree that stories have to be written because they are fun, but your romanticizing of this website and the stories herein is just bizarre.

And before anyone points it out - I am fully aware of whom I am replying to.
No. 5098
>>5097
>a farce trying to take itself seriously
So what does that mean, exactly?
No. 5099
>>5098
To sum it up broadly: The story pretends to be something it is not and cannot ever be.
No. 5100
>as things move along there is a tendency for there to be less energy amongst the fanbase

That's pretty subjective. And debatable. Except if you're just talking in general because well, yeah, that applies to just about anything we humans take a fancy too. All in all, though, I liked your post. Sort of wish I knew what you wrote. If you're putting as much thought and effort into it as your post implies, you have my thanks.

Sage for hurp, and a pinch of durp.
No. 5101
>>5100
I'll agree to that and correct myself, there seems to be less energy amongst the fan base and as I said it's just my personal experience. I have no doubt that some people are as enthralled as they were in the beginning by the latest but, overall, it just feels different. I've noticed it not only in what I write but in several other stories I've read. This is just one man's impression and I'm sure that there's people that feel just the opposite.

I've talked about this sort of thing within my own threads if that narrows things down. There's no real need for me to be specific here, I'd prefer my points to stand by their own.
No. 5102
>>5099
I wouldn't normally take interest in this sort of an opinion (and I would hate to derail the thread) but I find myself unable to resist.
Please, do elucidate. What is my story pretending to be? I haven't the slightest idea what you might mean, and I'm genuinely curious.
No. 5103
>>5096

You have to consider the time it takes most readers and writers to get to reach the day two mark- i.e. a month at least, in most cases. So it seems like more time has passed in the story, even if it hasn't.

And as you said, a few novels of buildup would be unrealistic to expect. That's why I advocate the careful, planned use of timeskips, or at the very least days that can be finished in less than a month of real time, be it by faster updates or more "story time" between choices.

Now, to slightly elaborate on the "love at first sight"- you can get a crush on someone in under a day. You can be very attracted to them, looks or otherwise, from almost the moment you meet them. It's not 'love', but it is a possible lead in to it.

Also, when applicable, characters who are already familiar with the characters could be forgiven for advancing a little fast; presumably, the buildup has already taken place.
No. 5104
>>5103

Agreed. Having characters know each other already can really help solve a lot of problems. However it brings up a slew of problems on its own. Its hard to fill in the blanks of what has already occurred, and can be confusing for the reader. So I'd advise that any writer to attempt this approach to think hard about what the characters have done in the past, and to make it clear to the readers. Saving funny memories for the characters to recall later on is good and spices things up, but remember that if you keep the readers in the dark, they aren't going to know how to react to some situations. They'll be left thinking "What exactly have we done in the past with this character?"

That said, I also rather dislike the polar opposite, which is the "anon falls into gensokyo" plot. Unless it is for a really simple, quick paced adventure. Mostly because it generally brings with it so many plotholes that it is really difficult to overlook in a more serious story.

Finally, timeskips are good. They are your friend, and will help keep the momentum of your story going. The readers don't have much control over the character's actions anyway. As long as you are using timeskips carefully, you should be good. Try and read some books, watch some shows, play some games, etc etc. You'll see that timeskips are used incredibly often, even if they only skip a few minutes or hours. Learn where they are generally used, and start thinking about how you would explain what happened in that time, and how much control you're going to give the readers for what happens during the skip.

Ideally, your story should not turn into 100% stream of consciousness. That works well to immerse readers early on, but it is guaranteed to drag your story down later if you don't break it up. The problem with a stream of consciousness is that you start to lose pacing over time with it. You start falling into the trap of having dramatic buildup and climatic scenes one after another, even though to the character it might have been only a few minutes.

I think people have been somewhat good about not falling completely into that trap, but I still see elements of it popping up from time to time, where the writer obviously has something they want to do, but don't really know how to get the character to stop wandering around and trip the next plot flag.
No. 5105
>>5104

I agree with the this so much it hurts.

One of the most important things I've learned is that you don't have to follow every single thing they do, and, most importantly, you don't need to put in detail for anything that isn't important. You don't need to describe them getting in their car and driving across town step by step- you can just say "he/you/I got in the car and drove across town," or some suitable variant.

Traditionally, internal monologues have been used to gloss over boring or repetitive stuff, but this does have the catch of making most anons freakishly introspective, and again, it stretches out the "in-story" time incredibly.

The point is not that people don't want to see things happen over time, quite the contrary, most of them enjoy it; it's that they don't want to play out all of the intervening time on a 1:1 scale.

Naturally, using too many timeskips and cutting too much detail makes the whole thing feel rushed, and completely break the immersion. It's a balance.
No. 5106
Something important about time slips: Don't gloss over things like meeting new people, etc in the process, but instead highlight that event then skip the boring stuff.
No. 5108
>"No one wants to read through a few years of their lives as they become friends and eventually fall in love."

Are you kidding? This is pretty much the basis of soap operas. Look how long they go on, and how many dedicated viewers they get, and consider how many just watch it for the drips of the "will they, won't they" couple.

Anime and visual novels are little different.

>>5082
>This is actually something that, in general, is a flaw with most stories here. If you actually break it down, most stories will have the girl falling in love with the protagonist within approximately 1 - 2 days "in story" time. Or at the very least, she will act as a friend to him as if they had known each other for months or years.

I've tried to subvert this in Flea, and the reactions it got was a number of people assuming that Sakuya hated Hayate because they weren't immediately BFFs.

>>5104
>Agreed. Having characters know each other already can really help solve a lot of problems. However it brings up a slew of problems on its own. Its hard to fill in the blanks of what has already occurred, and can be confusing for the reader. So I'd advise that any writer to attempt this approach to think hard about what the characters have done in the past, and to make it clear to the readers. Saving funny memories for the characters to recall later on is good and spices things up, but remember that if you keep the readers in the dark, they aren't going to know how to react to some situations. They'll be left thinking "What exactly have we done in the past with this character?"

I like to think this is something I've done well in Flea.

>That said, I also rather dislike the polar opposite, which is the "anon falls into gensokyo" plot. Unless it is for a really simple, quick paced adventure. Mostly because it generally brings with it so many plotholes that it is really difficult to overlook in a more serious story.

I hate this kind of plot. It's such a clichéd, copout way to do things, pretty much the same as "Yukari did it" for strange occurences and "Eirin's shady new drug" for futa doujins (though any excuse is an acceptable excuse).
It's just an overly convenient, thoughtless way to introduce the world and characters.

Yes, I am entirely aware that I did this in SotUY. It's one of the many reasons it was terrible.
No. 5109
>>5108

>Are you kidding? This is pretty much the basis of soap operas. Look how long they go on, and how many dedicated viewers they get, and consider how many just watch it for the drips of the "will they, won't they" couple.

Are you saying soap operas are good?

>I've tried to subvert this in Flea, and the reactions it got was a number of people assuming that Sakuya hated Hayate because they weren't immediately BFFs.

I think the point where she nailed a pair of his underwear to the wall with a knife through the crotch was pretty indicative. There's a very large distance between 'hate' and 'BFF', and you were toward the wrong end of it.

[/personalcritique]
No. 5110
>>5109
>Are you saying soap operas are good?

I'm saying that people want to see relationships develop over time.

>I think the point where she nailed a pair of his underwear to the wall with a knife through the crotch was pretty indicative. There's a very large distance between 'hate' and 'BFF', and you were toward the wrong end of it.

At that point thinking such was understandable. The problem is that people were still thinking it up until a few updates ago when I ended up directly stating that she doesn't hate him.
No. 5111
>>5110

Thats kind of what happens when you make characters do really extreme things. The more hostility there is initially, the more has to happen to make friendship even the least bit believable. Thats probably why people are still of that opinion. They might not feel enough has happened yet to earn that friendship.

Personally, I think you're mostly doing fine. Just don't be surprised when people don't see it the same way.
No. 5112
>>5110
To be honest, there was nothing up until you said that that dispeled the motion for most folks. I knew that Sakuya was complex and was mere upset at Remilia's stunt.
No. 5117
>>5101
>I have no doubt that some people are as enthralled as they were in the beginning by the latest but, overall, it just feels different.
I personally can't invest myself in the stories anymore, because I don't expect any romance to really develop or any major plot threads to be resolved before the author calls it quits.

I used to read and vote and argue in almost everything, trying to make sure the stories went the best way possible. I'd read the updates as soon as they were posted and vote early if I had a good argument or a write-in that would need to gather support. I lost count of how many winning write-ins I came up with, though admittedly it was easier in the early days of short, fast updates.

All of those stories are dead. I can count the number of them that reached a satisfying conclusion on one hand. The majority of them reached no conclusion at all. I don't feel that urgency anymore. I've been let down too many times to get emotionally invested again.


Romance, stories with "routes", was what really got me hooked on this site. Don't get me wrong, I'm loving stories like A Fairy's Tale and Memoirs of a Vampire, but this is a different kind of love.

With that in mind, I've made a list. I'm sure I left some out, though.
- Keine/Meiling - Waking Up In Gensokyo
- Reisen - Misadventures in Gensokyo
- Mokou - Gensokyo Academy: School Days
- Marisa/Wriggle - Forest LA
- Renko - This Shrine
- Sanae - Youkai Mountain LA
- Alice - Deluge of a Lunar Fantasy (first run)
- Letty - Touhou: Taste the Rainbow
- Meiling - Touhou: Graze the Rainbow
- Mokou - Pirates of Gensokyo
- Reisen - Contemplations Under the Moon and Stars
- Parsee - Spirit of the Underground Youkai
- Meiling - A Scarlet-Stained Memoir
- Reisen - Touhou Persona
- Sakuya - Scarlet Horizon
- Alice - Magical Rhapsody
- Renko - A Different Place
- Mystia - Working for the Weekend
- Satori - Involuntary Pedagogic Fantasy
- Flandre/Rumia/Patchouli/Sakuya/??? - Gensokyo High

How many broken hearts are aching right now?
No. 5118
>>5117
Not all of those stories are dead, they just have lazy writers.

I in contrast continue to hope for the current stories and try my best to vote in them, since it's such voting that might keep a writer writing.
No. 5120
>>5117

Yeah, I can understand those feelings. I'll even say that I feel the same way. It was easy to get attached and revel in what was, at heart, a story about a single character (often only after settling the 'route'). There are things I can enjoy on the site now but, part of the reason I said things felt different, I've become somewhat jaded with the passage of time. There are too many projects that will never be finished and are, for all intents and purposes, dead. It's hard to form an attachment when you can't tell if the story will ever be finished.

I certainly do understand that. It's why I probably don't read nearly half as many stories as I once did. It doesn't help that things around the site don't seem very spirited. Activity seems to be at a low.

Even with all that said though, I still try to engage. Not bothering to vote or engage in something I like just seems like adding to the problem. Sure, it may seem like plugging my finger into the dike when the dike has more holes than I have fingers but I can't bring myself to give up. I mean, for better or worse, I have really enjoyed this site and continue to do so. I know I'm pleased when I can see the author has put in a lot of effort into his labor of love or I can find a reference or smart use of foreshadowing and the like. Y'know things that differentiate between a story and writing for writing's sake.

For my part I've always tried, and will continue to try, to finish what I write. It isn't always easy what with the dearth of activity and frustrations born from an often seemingly distant audience. When things are right and it shows writer and reader are engaged, it's fulfilling for both. I won't lie, it hurts me somewhat when I feel that my hours of work are being glossed over but I also smile when someone brings up something both valid and thoughtful (feels rarer every day), be it through a write in or picking up on a detail in the story or even speculating wildly based on what was happened.

None of these things will be helped with this post here but, ah well, it feels nice to get stuff in the open.
No. 5123
>>5095
>In short, writers should try to focus on their vision and fun, not so much advancement or fame. That's what Fell did and look where it got him.
I thought that was saying I crashed and burned, the first few times I read it, but now I realize you meant otherwise. Thanks.

The key to the success of a story, as has probably been said before, is pretty simple: Update often, and write because you enjoy it.

Now, before your eyes skip over that, let me tell you something. Those aren't platitudes or vague, unclear suggestions.
Each of those are very simple, very clear directions. Follow them, and you'll be golden.

You can get by with a slower pace if you write monstrously-sized updates, like RaAN, Fallout, and Palingenesia, but their lack of speed is forgiven for the sheer amount of content they provide and the creativity and care they put into their work. It is not for the casual writer (And even then, Palingenesia updated at a comparatively rapid clip, considering the size of the updates)

>>5117
>All of those stories are dead. I can count the number of them that reached a satisfying conclusion on one hand. The majority of them reached no conclusion at all.
I can't help all of them, but I am working on making sure one of those stories will do that.
No. 5124
>>5123
You forgot Glasnost and Norseman (to a point); while kinda slow, they have 'meaty' updates.
No. 5136
>>4798
>a puritan based society for Anon is mostly american.
>puritan
As an American, I laugh. Regarding sex in general (rather than religious leanings): the sources I have found indicate that, at the least, American males have sex 1-2 years earlier on average than the British. Perhaps the Brits are the most sexually uptight of Europeans? I wouldn't know.

In any case, I find it odd whenever an excuse like this is brought up. It seems far more sensible to assume that the SEX = CONSEQUENCES thought is a result of sex usually involving consequences of some kind when written into anything of a dramatic nature. There are stories (both on THP and in the vast sums of fiction at your nearest bookstore) where main characters can fuck casually. Conversely, most fiction treats it as either (a) unimportant and unworthy of mention except in passing or (b) a pretty big deal. Thus, it is unsurprising to see it treated the same way in our own amateur works. Either it has consequences or it barely gets mentioned. Equivalently, if it gets more than merely mentioned, it has consequences.

(This is a minor point of discussion regarding generalities.)

>>4880
>QWL
If you ever see this: get back to writing military Lunarian shenanigans you... you... DOUBLE EARTHLING.

>>5076
>I don't so much care about "earning" a sex scene as I do about establishing character between participants A and B (and sometimes C), thus also establishing that, yes, this is something that said characters would do, and here's why.
I find this useful information. Thank you.
No. 5139
>>4817
>often clueless and planless because i have no idea what now.

Sounds about right.
No. 5141
>>5139
Wow, forget the modicum of respect I had for your bizarre and confused views. You really are just a moron wiseman.
No. 5142
>>5097
>The distinction between 'modern' story and (I assume) 'classic' is completely arbitrary.
Are you claiming that the stories made more recently are no different in general from the stories made before and shortly after the move from /jp/? This would seem to be obviously incorrect.

>Not only do some of the first authors still write and start up new stories with varying degrees of popularity but stories change over time in their content and direction.
Neither of these points contest that there has been an overall shift. Rather, comparing initial and newer works of these particular authors is a valid measurement, though it would suffer from an unavoidable bias--specifically, authors who felt capable of "Waking Up in Gensokyo"-style stories but have abandoned such work following the development of the community's expectations would be left out, in favor of the few who kept the motivation to write from the beginning 'till now.

>Distinction between 'good', 'bad' and 'perfect' isn't worth getting into.
If we cannot discuss "good" and "bad" then we truly have no place to speak at all.

>People enjoy what they read
Ideally.

>and there is no objective measure of a 'classic'.
And yet we are well-equipped to identify newer and older styles through a variety of tropes, including plots, introductions, writing and choice styles, and other devices.

>We are much too small and fragmented a community to ever have that sort of consensus.
Consensus is not strictly necessary. I disagree that we are too small to have distinguishable modi operandi.
No. 5145
>>5142
What you quote is a direct reply to ideas and concepts introduced by the post that I, in turn, quoted. This is important to stress.

>Are you claiming that the stories made more recently are no different in general from the stories made before and shortly after the move from /jp/?
Though I hate to generalize, this is indeed basically what I claim. Besides WuIG/MiG and a handful of short-lived stories, many of the elements found in older stories repeat themselves in what exists now. Is there much difference between, say, Kira's non-MiG endeavors, HY's stories, things like RwvT in /eientei/ and what you find across the boards now? Those stories were there within the first 6 months with the site.

I did not and won't deny that WuiG-esque stories may have been for the most part phased out, but I will insist that there was always what some may argue is the predominant style and tone on the site. They were not mutually exclusive, one evolving from the other, but rather coexisted until those who wrote the former abandoned them.

>If we cannot discuss "good" and "bad" then we truly have no place to speak at all.
Again, this is within the context of the post I quoted. Arbitrary standards were used in the post to make sweeping claims. There are a number of criteria that may be used to define 'good' and 'bad' in any context. My reply there is to claim that there has been no generalized assertion that some stories are inherently 'perfect' and 'normal' (as he put it).The definition of 'good', 'bad', 'beautiful', and 'truth' and other sometimes-nebulous concepts is a whole different conversation entirely not touched upon here.

>Ideally.
I don't think it's an unfair assumption to make that if someone is actively following a story it is because, on some level, he enjoys it.

>And yet we are well-equipped to identify newer and older styles[...]
The way I see it, it's more akin to musical genres. Both rock and pop can coexist (and sometimes cross over). Their historical roots aside, they continue to develop along their own lines more or less. Popularity of each genre may result in more or less bands in each category, but they both exist simultaneously. Much like it wasn't all WuiG-like stories then and (I'll admit this argument is weak due to lack of activity on the site right now) there isn't just one type of story now.

I know that this supports to an extent claims about shift in tastes. I'll emphasize that I haven't claimed the contrary. Just that tone and style cannot be used in qualifying something as 'modern' and a 'classic'.

>Consensus is not strictly necessary.
So without consensus it is defined by just anyone saying that something is a 'classic' or not? In which case that makes both opinions as valid.

> I disagree that we are too small to have distinguishable modi operandi.
What? How is that at all pertinent to anything I've said? The line you quote is a follow up of "People enjoy what they read and there is no objective measure of a 'classic'."; This touches in no way the idea that there may be a pattern or a homogeneous style to anything on the site.

I think you may be mincing a small section of a larger post too finely.
No. 5146
>>5145
>What you quote is a direct reply to ideas and concepts introduced by the post that I, in turn, quoted.
This did not escape me.

>Kira's non-MiG endeavors
You're specifically excluding early stories in a comparison of early stories to more recent ones?

>there has been no generalized assertion that some stories are inherently 'perfect' and 'normal' (as he put it)
He gave an adequate definition of what he meant by "perfect."

>I don't think it's an unfair assumption to make that if someone is actively following a story it is because, on some level, he enjoys it.
"Reading" and "actively following" are distinct, but this is not an important point.

>Just that tone and style cannot be used in qualifying something as 'modern' and a 'classic'.
The very definition of "modern" is "pertaining to the current time and style." We can certainly make this distinction. I can't tell what your point is here.

(And no, "classic" is not the opposite of "modern," if we want to use words correctly.)

>So without consensus it is defined by just anyone saying that something is a 'classic' or not?
You were the first to use the term "classic." The term "modern" does not strictly require consensus. This is the case in the world outside THP. I can see no reason why it would not apply here.

>What? How is that at all pertinent to anything I've said?
You cannot have an SOP unless some form of consensus has been reached.
No. 5150
>>5146
>You're specifically excluding early stories in a comparison of early stories to more recent ones?
No, I am not. The whole point of the post was to clarify that I mean that there has always been these types of stories. The claim that our stories have moved into another style entirely is simply untrue. This is the claim made by the first person I quoted. MiG and stories like it weren't the only things that appeared within the first 3-6 months of there being stories on this site. Your omission of the other names I gave as a quite example is convenient.

It strikes me that you may be overly pedantic regarding this discussion. You're losing sight of what was in discussion, instead worrying about word choice and the like.

>He gave an adequate definition of what he meant by "perfect."
Yes, and I disagree with that (the definition being:
"Stories that artfully made, push the standard forward, and have mass appeal"). I also disagree with the assumption that there's consensus on the matter of what makes something here good or bad. Which is what you're quoting from me. There has been no generalized assertion from the masses (to put it quaintly).

I guess it's only befitting that I be as focused on the details as you seem to be, so to quickly reply;

>"Reading" and "actively following" are distinct, but this is not an important point.
They are interchangable in this context. To be actively following a story, you must be reading it. In any case if you are reading an archived version of a story, it is most probable that you are enjoying it - otherwise you wouldn't be reading it - which is the point I made.

>I can't tell what your point is here.
>You were the first to use the term "classic."
The point is that there are no different eras. The post I quoted differentiated between older stories, bygone products, and more recent ongoings. Save your frivolous didactics.

>You cannot have an SOP unless some form of consensus has been reached.
I honestly don't see why you might bring this up. It doesn't pertain to anything I've said.

Write something of a position paper if you want to keep on discussing this, I'm not sure if we're seeing eye to eye here; It seems to me that the focus is much too centered on details and not ideas.
No. 5154
>>5150
>The claim that our stories have moved into another style entirely is simply untrue.
I did not say that the move has been complete and radical, but simply that there are noticeable differences as a generality.

>This is the claim made by the first person I quoted.
I do not see this claim stated, and it is, regardless, irrelevant when quoting my own posts. I made certain that you understood the point I was raising, like so:

>Are you claiming that the stories made more recently are no different in general from the stories made before and shortly after the move from /jp/?

And you responded:

>Though I hate to generalize, this is indeed basically what I claim.

>Your omission of the other names I gave as a quite example is convenient.
As convenient as ignoring MiG? Maybe. But HY has always been lauded since SDMLA (which influenced later stories) and RwVT has always been noted as different from the norm whenever it's recommended, which was often.

>The whole point of the post was to clarify that I mean that there has always been these types of stories.
I am quoting this out of order to reiterate that this point is being made on generalities.

>Yes, and I disagree with that (the definition being:...
Your disagreement with the definition of the term is... silly is the most apt term that comes to mind. That definition only applied in the post in which it was used. That is one use of "quotes" in writing. It would be like disagreeing with a name.

>To be actively following a story, you must be reading it.
The reverse is not true.

>I also disagree with the assumption that there's consensus on the matter of what makes something here good or bad.
I have not claimed otherwise.

>The point is that there are no different eras.
This is necessarily and always false. In any situation in which you can measure a period of time, it can be separated into eras for any reason, no matter how arbitrary.

Back to the point: As differences exist between the past and the present, it is possible to differentiate the two. They are nonequivalent.

One therefore can identify "eras," though I wouldn't. One also, therefore, can identify "new" and "old" stories and make general comparisons based on equally general observations.

I have claimed that such differences exist, and I will further claim that they are notable.

That is the main point.

>I honestly don't see why you might bring this up. It doesn't pertain to anything I've said.
Since this point is ultimately based on you misusing the word "classic," I have no desire to further belabor it.
No. 5159
>>5154
>I did not say that the move has been complete and radical, but simply that there are noticeable differences as a generality.
And radical or no, I am saying that such differences were always there. Different stories, different styles. There may be more of a certain type of story but these types have existed since the beginning. I am repeating myself here.

>As convenient as ignoring MiG?
I didn't ignore it. I said that it was a type of story. The implication there is that GA was another type of story. Different styles of story with different tones and standards have existed forever on this site. The And that is part of the evidence I used to back the claim. What does being lauded have to do with the fact that HY was there in the early period and was an example of another type of story? Same as with RwVT. I could expand the list to include scorn's endeavors for not fitting within the WuiG/MiG mold. Your generalities are tenuous at best as every story tends to be a microcosm unto itself.

>Your disagreement with the definition of the term is... silly
'Perfect' is an arbitrary label. His criteria isn't necessarily correct. Get over it.

>The reverse is not true.
You don't let up, do you? I acknowledge that but state that in this context the terms can be used interchangeably.

>I have not claimed otherwise.
And I have not claimed that you've claimed otherwise either.

>This is necessarily and always false.
I will not concede this point. Things on the site (perhaps save for activity) have remained constant. Nothing to divide it into eras. Perhaps if a month from now there are no more CYOAs and just regular fanfiction that will be the start of a new era. In my opinion, there have been no outstanding trends that allow for such a division to be made at this point in time.

You're more than free to try to spot difference between stories currently running and previously written. Comparison between stories are perfectly valid. But I argue that there is nothing about the 'old' and the 'new' qualities of a story that sets them apart. They are different because they are written by different people and/or with different intent. There have always been stories that one could classify in different ways, and in large proportions (/others/ is probably the most unorthodox board in that regard). There is no intrinsic and distinct mood or patterns in earlier stories that set them all unequivocally apart from current stories.

In the end you've drawn me into a whole different conversation separate from before. I understand perfectly what you mean to say but I disagree with it, no need to comb through every sentence and losing sight of the big picture again.

>misusing the word "classic,"
Again, erringly pedantic. I apologize for the electronic source but please take a look: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/classic

You shouldn't need me to point out how some words have more than one meaning depending on context.
No. 5166
>Things on the site (perhaps save for activity) have remained constant.
Bullshit. Stories where an anon is dropped into Gensokyo (Or has Gensokyo dropped on him) are getting noticeably more rare.
No. 5167
On the subject of CYOA timelines and romance/sex...

...How many stories do we have where anon has gotten laid (or at least into a romantic relationship) and it hasn't felt like it's either too soon (e.g. lovers in two days) or completely random/undeserved?

Probably not many. I think even SDMLA had the protagonist boning Remilia within two days or so.
No. 5168
>>5167
I didn't remember anyone complaining about it thought.
No. 5175
>>5167

Sex sells. Especially amongst fanfiction. Deal with it.
No. 5179
>>5175

Just "deal" with bad writing (and sudden sex without any character development is bad writing no matter how you cut it unless you're writing straight-up porn)? I thought we had standards.
No. 5181
>>5179
But are you saying how things were done in SDM LA wasn't good?
No. 5182
>>5181
>implying SDMLA was good
No. 5184
>>5179
We have standards, yes. Bad pacing is not one of them. Our standards basically boils down to two things:

1) Lulz
2) Don't anally violate the canon

So long as everyone is enjoying reading the story, there really is no cause for alarm. Remember, this is a CYOA community, which is primarily based on VNs, roughly 70% of which have "SEX" as one of their primary goals. You can either deal with it or go someplace else.
No. 5186
>>5181
That's exactly what he's saying.
No. 5187
>>5184
I wish most folks around here realize this, since we can't quite apply normal rules to Gensokyo.
No. 5193
>>5184
>You can either deal with it or go someplace else.

And that's why this place is so dead.
No. 5194
>>5193
Dead in the what sense? Because we seriously don't have a problem with the number of people who frequent this site. The only problem is with finding good writers who update regularly, and maybe if you stop scaring them off with your rampant elitist moralfaggotry we wouldn't have this problem.
No. 5195
>>5194
>moralfaggotry

Oh, it's you again. Shouldn't you be off looking for your very best friend, that one Akagi tripfag from /v/?
No. 5196
File 127907336671.jpg - (239.38KB , 600x600 , this is not so.jpg ) [iqdb]
5196
What are you even arguing about, Anonymous? Your words are too big and confusing for a little grue like me.

>>5194
>>5195
Sillies.
No. 5197
>>5196
Alright, who turned off the lights?
No. 5198
>What are you even arguing about, Anonymous? Your words are too big and confusing for a little grue like me.

ur a faget
No. 5213
File 127910549028.jpg - (38.30KB , 400x600 , No_u1.jpg ) [iqdb]
5213
>>5198
No. 5217
File 127911234327.jpg - (492.96KB , 1000x1000 , Left4Dead___Bill_by_talimgold.jpg ) [iqdb]
5217
>>5196

WITCH!
No. 5220
File 127911816480.jpg - (62.48KB , 651x548 , 1253994638374.jpg ) [iqdb]
5220
>>5182
>>implying SDMLA was good

I only see one chance, HY needs to get the fuck back to writing, jesus christ.
We need to marketing his pictures here everywhere so that more people will come. HE SHALL BE BRAND NAME TO CARRY ON THIS SITES FUTURE.
No. 5237
>>5220
He should really get back to writing, otherwise Fell will keep his spot as top writer here.
No. 5244
>>5237
that's an odd way of spelling palfriend
No. 5245
File 127913085068.png - (725.47KB , 871x1088 , and i am a happy rumia too.png ) [iqdb]
5245
>>5220
Oh Anonymous. I am writing! Just not for you.

Ever~

Again~
No. 5246
>>5244

that's an odd way of spelling Princess Tepes

>>5245

good
No. 5247
File 12791315193.jpg - (96.77KB , 800x800 , I wish to be the beloved tomboyish ice fairy.jpg ) [iqdb]
5247
>>5245

Hungrue
Oh, Hungrue
Why cannot I hate you?
You are
Too moe
No. 5249
File 127913183457.jpg - (282.93KB , 1440x1320 , 1279114547265.jpg ) [iqdb]
5249
>>5245
No. 5251
>>5245
We have no reason to care about that though.
No. 5252
File 127913295213.jpg - (39.43KB , 400x364 , 1247791388911.jpg ) [iqdb]
5252
>>5245
you are too cruel to the people who love you!
No. 5254
File 127913462168.jpg - (19.67KB , 280x289 , derailed.jpg ) [iqdb]
5254
No. 5370
File 127936907648.jpg - (6.62KB , 970x736 , untitled.jpg ) [iqdb]
5370
>>5196
Hey look, she drew a picture of me!
No. 5439
11. People arguing about the board's current state or future.

Also, I'm pretty sure YAF started this thread. Shouldn't be so surprised it came down to this.
No. 5499
>>5439
It was Wiseman.
No. 5511
File 128109208037.jpg - (27.51KB , 300x400 , fascinatings.jpg ) [iqdb]
5511
as a reader, I have to say the most annoying thing I see are people making pointlessly long winded arguements that nobody but the two or three people arguing will actually even care to read and make the thread look longer as if the story is actually being updated only to be disappointed. example >>>/shrine/30896
No. 5512
File 128110151870.jpg - (10.34KB , 249x238 , fasntnig.jpg ) [iqdb]
5512
>>5511
No. 5524
5. When anon makes an obscure choice you did not want or expect them to make.
I confirm, it's pretty annoying.

9. When anon gives a bunch of identical votes and no comments (partially the writer's fault).
When I see stuff like that, I suspect that 99% of the voters actually didn't read the story.
No. 5525
>>5524
>>5. When anon makes an obscure choice you did not want or expect them to make.
>I confirm, it's pretty annoying.
Hey, it's challenging, isn't it? And a little challenge every now and then always makes writing more fun to do.
No. 5526
Yep, it's pretty interesting though. I came to this website with a perfect plot, and when I began to write the CYOA, I had to change the plot 6 times. I consider that as a challenge, but I'm still wondering how to put sex in a story, and stay safe, if you get my point.
No. 5529
>>5526

If you're thinking of doing what I think you're thinking of doing, don't do it. And by what I think you're thinking of doing, I mean shoehorning sex into your story and/or adding sex for its own sake.
No. 5531
>>5526
Personally, I'd say just write a non-canon short with the characters you want to have sex. Pulling off sex in a story that's enjoyable to read and fleshes out the characters can be tricky, and if you're questioning yourself then maybe you should hold off for now.

Not nay-saying here, just warning you. There's been a lot of h-scenes in stories around here. What cut it two years ago might not always cut it today.
No. 5533
>>5526
depends on the flow of the story, though if you're worried about any "limits" to the scenes, there's no real limitations on NSFW text, though most of the really kinky stuff is usually put in /at/.
No. 5538
>>5533
No offense, but I don't want to write an H story. I want to put some sex in a "normal" story, to make the whole content more mature.
Because, personally, I think that, a man and a woman in a house, doing everything except having sex, it's totally a ... daydream?

I'm trying to writing a mature story, and, as I heard (en if personally, I found that it sucked),I heard that Mass Effect succeed in incoporating "mature sex".
No. 5539
>>5538

>I want to put some sex in a "normal" story, to make the whole content more mature.
>mature

Hooboy. In the same regard that M-rated games are more mature than E-rated games?
No. 5540
Does adding sex means adding realism?
That's the real question.
No. 5543
>>5538
See that's what I'm refering to by story flow; if you try to cram in a H-scene just because of something like that, there's no guarantee that it won't clash badly with the story.

>>5540
Good question, and it depends on various factors. I personally see sex as an extension of romance, though in Gensokyo I'd think it'd easily happen between very good friends as well.
No. 5548
PROTIP: there can be sex without H-scenes, and as long as you are not completely inept at pacing your story, it doesn't have to be the 'smooch smooch, screen fades to black' sort of affair.
Remember that sometimes a written-out H-scene may be less satisfying or outright jarring when compared to implied sex meant not for 'maturing' the story, but rather for character development and/or creating important plot points (such as pregnancy, not to look too far).

Erotica is overrated.
No. 5549
>>5548

That's just, like, your opinion, man.
No. 5551
File 128155732032.jpg - (59.24KB , 700x700 , CS1225527-02B-BIG.jpg ) [iqdb]
5551
>>5549

That's just, like, your opinion, man.
No. 5573
At the present I am not writing, I'm not updating, I've never had a story featured in a recommendations thread. I've never been mentioned in the IRC channel. I've never finished a CYOA, but what I do know is that I've been reading them for for many years and I’ve every right to speak my mind against the fabricated bullshit that is being updated on weekly basis.
It’s absolutely appalling! All these people think that if you’re in a recommendations thread, you're making something out of yourself, well, you're making a mockery out of Touhou fanfiction! I'm a writer, and I come from the underground, and I’m quite frankly, I’m sick and tired, and I’m here to go on these rants on message-boards because I know I’ll never mount to anything and I need to make myself feel better, so when I'm not high on pepsi and mentos, I’ll sit in front of this computer 'till the cows come home, and continue ranting and raving about the writers living out their Touhou dreams, because I never will!
No. 5574
>>5573

...wait, what? You went from "I don't like some of the stories currently being updated" to... to... I honestly don't know where you went to, man.
No. 5575
>>5573

...Are you on something? Are you not on something?
No. 5576
>>5573
go back to bed yaf
No. 5578
File 128198630556.png - (125.86KB , 214x266 , i-can-post-random-images-too.png ) [iqdb]
5578
>>5577
No. 5580
Why is this thread still here?
No. 5581
Because people keeping bumping it, the OP either forgot the password or doesn't care, and the Admins probably won't purge it unless specifically told to do so. As much of an eyesore as it is, there's a bit of legitimate content in here, however butchered.

But it's only 15 or so posts from autosage, so be my guest and bomb it.
No. 5589
>>5573

This post is so dumb, I'm almost surprised it's not copypasta.
No. 5650
In fact, I think the worst thaing is that kind of guy who vote without reading the story.

I don't know if it's often, but I think it's the worst thing who could happen to a story.

Taht, adn an non-englisch natyveu wirtefag.
No. 5651
File 128371493448.jpg - (30.83KB , 384x355 , 1248091943637.jpg ) [iqdb]
5651
>>5650
No. 5652
File 128372139736.jpg - (41.19KB , 320x240 , 1281465241419.jpg ) [iqdb]
5652
>>5650
And stop giving shit the necro
No. 5653
File 128372394961.jpg - (51.47KB , 500x500 , my face.jpg ) [iqdb]
5653
>the last three posts
No. 5662
oh
No. 5663
for
No. 5664
fuck's
No. 5665
sake
No. 5666
let
No. 5667
this
No. 5668
die
No. 5669
already
No. 5670
dammit
No. 5671
.
No. 5675
File 128377076259.jpg - (31.64KB , 500x391 , 1282061443391.jpg ) [iqdb]
5675
Oh, come on.