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2492 No. 2492
Three new boards in the stories section that seem to have no purpose whatsoever? Are we being trolled?

No. 2495
HY fucking up the place again, probably.
No. 2499
HY thought it'd be fun to have a LOLRANDUM place to post. During a fit of depression.

...


Yeah.
No. 2500
>>2499
And instead of 'fun', we get this thread:
>>/blue/11
No. 2506
>>2503
I'm sorry, wha? 3 new boards with no purpose was not my idea. This is the culmination of all the writefags getting together and seeing that yeah, there is a huge problem, no we don't know what the fuck to do about it.

Leave my "I told you so's" out of it. Its not constructive at all.
No. 2507
>>2506
What huge problem? Forgive me if I'm being blind or naive, but it seems to mostly be people making a huge fuss over school predictably causing the site's activity to drop after summer. The coincidental temporary site death falling within the same timeframe just made it look worse.

But I'm a newfag so I wouldn't know for sure. It just feels like the reason the site's 'shit' right now is primarily because of people whining that it's 'shit', not because it actually is. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.
No. 2508
This is to HY (and other writers on IRC). I apologize for it's lengthiness and my excessive use of bullet points / separators, but this shit has to be said:

---

I can understand where you guys are coming from by doing this, but holy shit, this only solidifies what is wrong with these boards, and only further alienates the readers.

Think about it.

* You just made three new boards with names and functions that are only apparent if you were there for the discussion (on IRC, I would assume) for it.

* You didn't promote a public discussion of the votes/discussion issues the writers on this site are having.

* You didn't allow non irc dwellers to help determine how these problems were addressed, or let them discuss if these new boards were a good idea or how to implement them.

* You didn't let us know ahead of time it was going to happen.


* You didn't let us know AFTER that it did happen, or explain any of it.


* The new boards themselves aren't very geared towards the readers, and don't really seem to have any useful purpose.


Add all this up, and it just has most of us readers scratching our heads, frustrated that once again the nebulous "Irc circlejerkers" fucked with the site and apparently us average reader's opinions on the matter do not matter.

This. Is. Not. A. Good. Thing.

If you guys want more discussion and votes, the worst possible thing you can do is make the readers feel like they have no say in what goes on in the site. If anything, all you are going to accomplish by acting like this is alienating us even further, which will result in fewer votes or even people just packing up and leaving entirely.

Don't get me wrong, the IRC is fine, but it is NOT where you guys should be handling site related stuff. THIS is exactly why IRC has such a bad rep on this site. Its because you guys do exactly what you just did.

---

This is a serious problem that effects the entire site, both readers and writers. Shouldn't this be discussed in a place where we can all see it?

So, here is what you need to do:

* Make a new thread in the general discussion area, where everyone can/will see it and participate .

* Pin that fucker, make an announcement, link it from other boards, and make it absolutely clear everyone needs to participate.

* Make it just a general "problems/solutions" thread. You guys have problems, lets find out what ideas for solutions people have, and what everyone wants from this site.

Basically you need to take the opposite approach you did. Instead of it being something that gets decided "in the shadows", so to speak, we need to have that kind of discussion in the public.

---

Let me be completely honest here. This site is NOT very suited for what we do on it, and the writers rely too much on the CYOA choices by themselves to promote discussion. Maybe it is time we talked about that.

I'd really ( and I mean REALLY ) hate to bring up the "F" word, but maybe its time we start thinking of something other than the imageboard format for actually housing the stories themselves.

---

Sorry if I came off as an ass to you, but I really love this site, and don't like seeing stuff harm it further.
No. 2509
>>2508
I'll try to clear up some of the misconceptions in your post there. Some people are taking things a little overboard I think.

Firstly there has been no "IRC conspiracy" or anything of the sort in making the new boards. Sure, it occurred after a discussion there, but you're assuming that everyone was in on it. They are not.

The boards are there for their own reasons and have little to do with what the average denizen think. There has been no explanation or communication on purpose.

I personally love the idea of the userbase of a site working together to make things better. I think that discussion about any problems and issues should be open and transparent. IRC is one such venue to get in contact with staff and your peers, but this is also what this board is for. Have something that you feel is bugging you? Create a thread here. I personally check almost every board every day, and certainly don't mind engaging whenever appropriate (although unless necessary like now, I'll abstain from using my trip).

I don't know what else to say. This was an initiative by HY and myself mostly, there happened to be others that wished to weigh in for some reason or another. It might have not been the best of decisions, but I think that part of the intention is to have people just take it easy. That can't be bad, now can it?
No. 2510
>Don't get me wrong, the IRC is fine, but it is NOT where you guys should be handling site related stuff. THIS is exactly why IRC has such a bad rep on this site. Its because you guys do exactly what you just did.

Agreed. I'm just as confused as you guys, and I DO frequent IRC. Just not when this was being discussed, I guess.
No. 2511
As an IRCfag I can support Teruyo's story so far as to say they managed to pull this all off when I had my pitiful 4 hour sleep last night. If there was actual discussion, I have no fucking idea, but I can bet it was pretty... light if it existed at all. So fear not, it's not an IRC conspiracy by any length of imagination, just a couple of mods thinking they might be able to breathe new fire to the site by adding a couple of spam boards. (Which they desperately deny they wanted, claiming they exist purely as a sketchpad or something. Same thing.) Anyways, it's not like it's the end of the world, as the new boards are proven to be worthless they'll likely get deleted and not mentioned again.
No. 2512
I'm nine years old and what is this.
No. 2513
>>2507
The problem is, and your story is the exception by the way, is that writers just aren't getting participation in stories that require that participation. We may or may not be getting votes, sure, but discussion on the plot? We aren't getting that and its probably the most useful tool in shaping your story. Not only that but it lets us know you care about what is going on.

Not only that, but we are finding it difficult to find more readers, or failing in getting the attention of anon who solely browse another board.

>>2508
Sir, (I know, sir, on the internet? who the fuck do I think I am?) I'm going to address your points with as much thought and care as you've put into them.

The new boards were an attempt I think to shock us into this as well as to bring back the . Discussing the issue. It has worked in so far as discussion goes. It was however, not intended to be a solution more of an experiment to see what we would do with the new boards. What would anon do with 3 new sandboxes?

This was not any form of IRC circlejerk. the IRC folk are not "out to get you". We're as concerned about the board health as you are and we do not have any kind of ulterior motive. We really see a problem, have no idea how to fix it. In any case, announcements often get ignored, so we had to get your attention somehow. if nothing else, this accomplished that.

You bring up an interesting point about format though. One I would like to think about and discuss further. Just how difficult would it be to throw up a board and make this an imageboard//messageboard combo or fusion? a BB board?

what do we think of /words/? I personally don't think the shii script is all that useful as a full fledged imageboard accomplishes much the same thing as a shii board and I don't think its what we need, but as it is now, we need to look at all options. Together as a board.

We're also not excluding anyone from discussion. Feel free to discuss it here or in #thp or #eientei Many of the points that get said in IRC, if they are any good, get repeated here on the board.
No. 2514
The admins and writefags did not get together and decide anything. All we did was play around with board creation for shits and giggles and to see what you would do. I can't believe a group of people who used to be overwhelmingly from 4chan are taking this so seriously.

Yes, perhaps there are real issues on the site to do with lack of criticism and discussion, or poor quality. But this wasn't really about that, this was just playing around in the sandbox. If and when any 'serious' decisions are made, it'll be hashed out right here on the site.
No. 2515
>>2513
>The new boards were an attempt I think to shock us into this as well as to bring back the original feel of the site as well as discussion on the issue.
No. 2516
>>2513
Wait, you're on IRC? Tell me your name so I can yell at you to update when you're on.
No. 2517
>>2508
I'm on IRC most of the time and I never heard of this until just now, so yeah.
No. 2518
>>2517
Hey there

>>2514

I said, nothing was decided.

tl;dr: shits and giggles
No. 2520
>>2516
sure. I'm Spring
No. 2521
ITT: Tripfags

Atleast the Mods do shit.
No. 2522
>>2521

Like adding a bunch of really awesome new boards, right?
No. 2523
>>2522

The joke.
Your head.
No. 2525
>>2523

Sorry, I thought you were really that stupid.
No. 2529
>>2514

(guy that wrote the huge post here, as you can probably tell)

I never meant to make it seem like I thought that there was an IRC conspiracy or "circlejerk". I was trying to say that when stuff is mysteriously decided, it really does give the appearance that we have no say. The lack of on-board communication is exactly the reason the misconceptions about the IRC exist in the first place.

As for everyone taking it seriously. Step back and think about this a moment.

We lost this site only recently, without any warning at all. A large number of us didn't even find the new site for about a month. Heck, I was actively looking for a replacement site, and I didn't find it until 3 or 4 weeks after the site went down.

Don't you think anon might be just a bit worried when they see random joke boards going up without checking with them first, or even an explanation? Kinda gives the impression that the new admins see this site as their playground and don't care what the rest of the users think.

This isn't 4chan. The anon here, while being utterly retarded when voting at times (less so lately), are surprisingly mature and willing to discuss matters civilly. You don't need to shock us into discussion. If you have something to say, the best bet, like I said, is make an announcement and accompanying discussion thread, and we'll talk.

This will probably feel like we can participate in the site more. If you do crap like this, we're going to lose faith in you guys and start to participate even less.

In particular, I highly reccomend you start a thread about improving this site in general. Or, fuck, if you're so into making extra boards, make a "suggestions" board. Now THAT might actually accomplish something.

Sorry if I sound harsh about this, I'm just honestly surprised to see you guys fuck around with the site like this right after saving it from oblivion.
No. 2530
>>2529
Still pretty sure you were overreacting, bro. When I saw the new boards, my first thought was "Oh Christ, HY's on a bender. I hope he 'accidentally' bans Wiseman", not "JESUS FUCK IRC'S TAKING OVER MAN BATTLE STATIONS".

That said, if you want to participate in the site, do so. You're on the "suggestions board", or the closest thing there is to one; start a thread and bitch. HY and company seemed to entertain a wide range of possible resolutions on the question of whether to merge boards, back on /test/ right after the new site came up, and I see no reason to believe they wouldn't do the same for our present "eternal summer" dilemma.
No. 2531
>>2529
>Kinda gives the impression that the new admins see this site as their playground and don't care what the rest of the users think.

Welcome to THP, enjoy your stay.
No. 2532
>>2531
Just because I won't give you /sky/ doesn't mean this is my personal playground.
No. 2533
>>2532

/sky/? Not quite sure what you're talking about or how its relevant.

I'd say making 3 random-ass boards on a whim is pretty "playgroundy" to me
No. 2535
>>2533
Uh-huh, your playground. Didn't effect the rest of the site in the slightest, isn't getting in the way, haven't put any rule or restrictions on it. You're complaining about being handed some new canvas?
No. 2536
File 125664570124.jpg - (292.38KB , 1440x868 , 286810.jpg ) [iqdb]
2536
Yeah, so I have no idea what's going on anymore.
No. 2537
File 125664621174.jpg - (436.69KB , 673x1001 , 1255376673849.jpg ) [iqdb]
2537
Sure is fun to whine on /blue/, Not that i don't whine on other boards, but it is fun to whine on one more board.

Now we have to get our pitchforks and torches and get rid of the newfags and make THP pure blooded again. Our Overlord agreed, let's do his bidding.
No. 2539
>>2536
Something sort of broke, I fixed it and then something else was broke because of the way I fixed it. More competent people are busy/asleep right now, but it'll be sorted soon.
No. 2540
>>2537

I, for one, will not accept HY as our Overlord.
No. 2541
>>2539
Well that explains why I couldn't access the site last night to set up a thread in /coriander/, what did you do?
No. 2542
>>2541
Just ram problems. But when it was fixed this time it had left a particular file mangled. Fixed that now (sort of).
No. 2543
>>2542
I apologize if this sounds newbish or if you have already thought of it, but wouldn't using a backup unmangled file fix the problem?
No. 2544
>>2543
That's assuming, of course, that HY made a backup in the first place
No. 2545
>>2543
That is exactly what we did.
No. 2546
>>2535

I was going to respond with a lengthy post yesterday, but the site going down in flames ate it. I can't be bothered to re-write it all, so here's the bullet point version (more readable this way, anyway) :

* The fact that there wasn't much/any discussion before you decided to add the boards is worse than if you had some secret exclusive meeting. Snap decisions are rarely good ones.

* You still haven't explained what your reasoning behind creating three separate "random" boards is. Do we really need that many? Maybe just combine them into a single board if you can't even give us a convincing enough reason other than "I'm admin, I did it because I can", which is what its starting to sound like.

* Adding boards actually does affect the site. It clutters the hell out of the already cluttered board navigation. At least move that shit out the stories section and make a "random" category.

Besides, if you honestly think adding three completely useless boards is okay, what does that say about what you'll do in the future? The last thing we need is to be one of those sites with 50 sub-boards that no one ever bothers to sift through anyway.

Fuck, we already have that problem, with a lot of people only checking specific boards and missing out on a lot.

* The boards themselves are eyesores. I've seen maybe one or two posts, let alone threads, of any value at all in there. And those could have gone elsewhere anyway.

* This is not 4chan. We do not have a big problem with troll threads, image macros, or anything of that nature. We really don't need the equivalent of a /b/ board. Now if you make those boards more specific as to cultivate actual discussion, then that might be useful.

But naming them after a color, a plant, and whatever the fuck /inside/ is supposed to be? I have no idea what the fuck you were even thinking.

* Like I said before. If you really want to add new boards, ask us first. Then you might actually find out what we want in a new board, rather than what you think we want.

* In general, this kind of activity anywhere else would be considered irresponsible administration. The fact that you're the new management only compounds this.

We don't know what to expect from you yet, but doing shit on a whim is NEVER, EVER a good sign from an admin.
No. 2547
>>2546
>* The boards themselves are eyesores. I've seen maybe one or two posts, let alone threads, of any value at all in there. And those could have gone elsewhere anyway.

Ouch.
No. 2548
>>2547

Stories notwithstanding
No. 2550
>>2547

>Gunhammer!O0BCDmJj4E

Oh look another tripfag who only 5 people probably know of. At best.
No. 2551
I still believe that a spam sandbox board is a good idea.
No. 2553
>>2550
Assumed name is assumed.

Also, I know Anon is all excited to get started on King HY's crusade for the holy land of THP but please use reason before you charge in. You want this crusade to be a successful one, oh Knights of THP.
No. 2554
>>2546
Okay, apparently >>2530 didn't get the message through, so I'll be clearer: chill the fuck out. You're right that HY's whim is not reason enough to make drastic changes to the site, but these new boards really aren't drastic changes to the site. Adding /sky/, merging /eientei/ and /forest/, shit that you can't ignore; those are drastic changes, and I would go up in arms with you if something like that happened without community discussion and plenty of advance notice, but /coriander/ is not serious business.
No. 2555
>>2554

>but /coriander/ is not serious business.

It is however full of Youkai Moe.
No. 2564
>>2554

/village/ fits better than /sky/, really.
No. 2565
New, random boards are fine and all, but please try to be a bit more consistent in your implementation. /blue/, /coriander/, and /inside/ are still being grouped with the main boards in the headers and footers of /border/, /sdm/, and /i/ (instead of being their own group), as well as not showing up at all on /tt/

Geeze... get it together!
No. 2566
>>2565
Information like that as well as default themes, header images, etc are implemented when the particular board is generated. Boards are regenerated when a post is made on them or someone like me decides to manually do them.

It is not a question of getting it together. Go ahead and make a post and see what happens. Doing things manually is both tedious and not worth it for something so minor.
No. 2567
>>2554

I wouldn't have had as much a problem with the new boards and their sudden implementation if it weren't for how little thought was put into them.

Blue/Plant/Inside are not really categories that really evoke coherent discussion. Just look inside those boards. Its at least half troll threads or random bullshit.

As long as we're just randomly adding boards, you know what boards we could have used?

We could have used a board specifically for image dumps and the like, since those tend to clog up either /th/ or /gensokyo/, or whatever other board.

We could have used ONE random board, or something to act as a board equivalent to the IRC, or whatever the fuck the 3 new boards are meant to be.

And then maybe we could have used one story workshop/critiquing/analysis, or misc writing related board.

Certainly the new boards could be used for those purposes, and should. I'm even seeing a little (VERY little) of that being done already. But in their current state, they are very likely to devolve into a Touhou version of /b/. 90% of this could be attributed to their god damned names.

So yeah. I'm all for revising the site, just put a little more thought into it. I'd simply like some indication from HY of what his reasoning behind each of the new boards is, and if their current state is temporary, or if he REALLY wants blue/plant/!. I think maybe if he had done that in the first place, this discussion could have been avoided.

As a side note: I feel very sorry for anyone that makes a story thread, or anything of any merit in those boards in their current state. It's going to get buried in a sea of inane chatter in an instant.
No. 2568
>>2567

Huh, apparently /inside/ got removed while I was in class. My point stands, though.

Still, that does alleviate some of my concerns.
No. 2585
Too bad /blue/ isn't. So far their crusade has done some good, but last time I checked they might go overboard.

Some findings on the modern state of things.

Why Anon behaves the way it does.

Timidness: past attempts at awesome/digging for plot usually results in a bad end in some past stories, that or a heavy punishment. This results in Anon being wary.

How to combat this: Define some abilities early on as to embolden anon. Plot wise have them trip over something figuratively speaking in the story.

Lack of discussion: in straight forward stories (like RiG), there isn't much to discuss. In others it might be the result of the wait between updates in many stories.

Feedback wise, it's been a long belief on THP that it's not Anon job to correct a bad writer. This doesn't mix well with the insecure bunch that often composes good writers.

Solution: Update faster or have a bit more obvious leads. (This goes double for most /eientei/ writers since they seem to complain the most and update the least. Serial Ata being an exception)

most Anon today are not talented in any sort of writing or ambition, and the writefags who posted write ins sans trips in the past are now too busy with things to really read much.

This means the likely hood of an anon trying their hand at a story isn't that high, especially with what happens to failures. Don't expect a lot of growth anytime soon.

Another problem is the breakdown in communication between writer and readers, mainly revilement with older writers and their nasty habit of leaving things on unofficial hiatuses. A status report would does the job in keeping them calm.

Having covered the first writer problem.

The next is the seeming disregard for Anon at times, since the basic fact is this site lives on writers and anon, and the two off each other.

Anon needs to be reminded that while they give stories life, it's the author's will that stories are made in the first place.

Writers should realize Anon can only take oh so much jerking around.

There's the fact that it's mainly the newblood keeping things going today. Most aren't that bad, considering how the bad ones have been disposed off, much to the /blue/ mob's delight.

As far as going back to old, fun times, unless the famed writers regain their drive, focus, and energy of old, it won't happen.

On the matter of fun, I suspect it got lost along the way somehow. Sure things are still fun some, but some people take things too seriously. Being "elite" and fun don't go hand in hand.

But as far as the three that were purged? There are lessons to take from their failures.

Reiji: His story wasn't bad but his behavior and inability to adjust to the different setting of a Chan based board was a sore thumb that irked everyone. What happened next wasn't surprising.

J to the E: While having some talent, the man was totally unsuited for a Touhou board. It didn't help he read a YAF side story (usually grim) and proceeded to make a story filled with so many absurd crossovers it makes Sonic appearing in that one story seem normal. When the /blue/ mob started, he was first on the list.

Wiseman: A man undone by his own Hubris, in both his posting with a trip and in using a famed character so carelessly. This cost him many potential fans and defenders when the hammer came down.

His writing was indeed flawed but he in his own way tried to address some of the problems.(Timid Anon) He may come to realize the truth of what happened, and the guilt would torture him for a long time. After all what worse punishment than finding out your own arrogance killed your story?

The key lessons here are: Only post with Trip in your story, and don't involve other characters in your story.

This comes to the matter of psyche of writers: Either arrogance or self-depreciation. It's not surprising that the latter are the better writers if they're a bit finicky about feedback.

Just some food for thought on things here. Take it easy for you'll live longer that way.
No. 2587
I think there does need to be a more serious and analytical discussion about the interaction between the readers and writers. I think right now things are really bad because the readers are somewhat apathetic about starting new stories. I know I am.

We start reading something, liking the potential a story has and wanting to see it to the end. But we've seen so many DAMN good stories, who's writers we lavished with attention and discussion and votes... just dry up and die with no resolution.

So what do you expect? With a long history of writers abandoning their stories, the burden of proof is on the writer to prove they are deserving of anon's full attention. Not the other way around.

Jesus, how many stories have been made on these boards? And how many have been finished? What is even worse is when a story goes on for a very long time and then dies. That's even worse than a story dying early on, because we get our hopes up. A bunch of buildup for nothing. And yes, I am looking at you right now HY (I still mourn for the castlevania stories).

And that's what this is really about. If anon doesn't trust you to finish your story, you're not going to get the votes and discussion that you need. You need to fucking PROVE that you are going to ride your story out.

So, here are a few things you can do, as writers, to keep up votes and discussion:

* Update regularly:
If you update on a regular basis, it is more likely that readers will be hanging out on the site in anticipation for responding to your story. Even go as far as to make a schedule if you can. The more predictable you are with updates, the better.

* Update often:
This is a much harder one on writers, I think, but it is crucial, up to a point. It doesn't matter how good your story is, if you're updating only once a month or less, readers are going to start losing interest. The exact right speed of updates is very relative to the board and story. Try for at LEAST once a week, though, even if you have to cut walls up into smaller chunks.

* Don't update too often
This is one that doesn't come up often, but is something I feel I should mention nonetheless. If you update too often, you are likely to have readers miss choices. When readers miss choices, they are more likely to sit back and read your story as a static piece, rather than becoming involved with the voting and writing. I loved most of HY's stories, but some updated so blindingly fast at times that I'd miss 2 or 3 updates without even realizing it, only to find that things had changed drastically.


* Manage your walls
This is one that is really more of an opinion. If you have an update long enough to break the character limit, perhaps you should split it into multiple updates.

When and update is too long, there is a tenancy for a writer to get side tracked, or get somewhat wasteful with words or scenes. Even worse, in stories with a lot of reader participation, long updates tend to make both write-ins and discussion worthless.

Think about it, in a large wall, a chain of events may occur that fall well outside the original write-in, things that anon may have preferred to handle differently than the writer decides to. This starts to distance the readers from the story.

And what good is discussion going to do anon if anything they discuss is going to be rendered a moot point in the very next update anyway? You need to give anon the chance to make both a long term and short term gameplan.

Walls also break up any potential dramatic tension you may have had in the update itself if anon can just breeze through it. There's nothing that builds up drama like having shit go down and suddenly be presented with a choice.

* Don't expect too much from anon
Keep in mind that we have readers from MANY different time zones, and most have work or school, and any number of other responsibilities. You must be aware of this fact, and you cannot expect many votes or discussion right off the bat. Even if your story is well along, if you aren't updating often or regularly, or are pissing off anon, you just cannot expect a lot of response.

*Leave discussion fodder
I know many of you writers love discussion in your threads, and it is easy to see why. But the sad fact is that many of your stories simply don't warrant any real discussion that (to us) would be a no brainer.

Super straight forward stories aren't going to get discussion because there's nothing to discuss. Mindless praise is generally an awkward thing for us, so unless there's something we really have to noodle, we're not going to talk much.

So if you really want discussion, leave breadcrumbs for us.


*Don't overload us
This is another issue that often happens, particularly with writers that write lots of walls. Don't throw too much at us at once. If you throw out too many lines for us to follow, we are going to trip over them. This isn't because anon is stupid, or that you're a bad writer. It's merely how interactive storytelling works.

If your story is too complicated for anon, they are going to get overwhelmed and gradually withdraw from the discussion. If you find this happening, try and clarify things. Try to present only a handful of immediate things anon actually needs to worry about, while still leaving clues as to what we will need to prepare for in the future.

*Communicate with anon
This is a big one if you care about discussion, votes, or just knowing what anon thinks of your story (which would be just about every writer here, I would think).

Let us know when updates are going to be late, let us know if you're having trouble thinking of something. If you prefer a write-in or static choice for a particular update, tell us.

If you want to know if we like the story or have any particular concerns, ask us. Don't be afraid to talk to us.

*Bad ends are not your friend.
Bad ends were popular in choose your own adventure stories both in computer game and book form. In computer games they were more a way of punishing bad choices, while in books they were simply a way to inject variety into the story. Often writers want to write out alternate scenes, but just do not have the time or motivation it takes to re-integrate them, hence the bad end. It gives you glimpse of what could have been, and lets the writer play around with the drama of character death.

The difference between what you are doing and what they were doing is the time frames involved. When we get a bad end, it usually means a wasted update, which can mean days or in some cases, weeks of wasted time. Updates are fucking precious to anon, so we will go to any lengths to avoid a bad end.

Do not throw out bad-ends just because of one bad choice, unless that choice had a god damned neon blinking warning sign. Sometimes a single choice or write in that seems like obvious bad end fodder to you (who has all the details of the story), might actually seem like a good idea to us, who might not understand exactly how your story works.

If anon does something that you would normally just bad end them for, try giving them a way out. Give them a chance to back out of the choice, or give them a chance to resolve the situation.

The worst kind of update I see on this site is the "you enter the (kinda) dark room and are killed" updates. Often your stories have many scenes of close encounters that could have just as likely turned into a bad end, so how is anon supposed to know that this particular one was going to lead to their demise?

If you do feel the need to automatically bad end anon, please do not give a choice on how far to go back. It just wastes time and makes us re-do things we've already done, or even worse, undoes things that we actually liked. This is more of an opinion, but I think just doing the restart in the same update is probably best.

Of course, if you wanna go "BAD END" with no choice afterwards and make us sweat for a few hours before you continue, that's cool too. Freaking out anon is funny, afterall.

* Format well
This is something that I think more writers need to work on. Make your posts readable. Break up large blocks of text whenever possible. It may be a personal opinion, but I really prefer it when a writer splits each character's dialog into it's own line, since it is easy for the eye to track, and it doesn't lose emphasis by being crowded by other text.

This isn't necessary of course, but make sure your formatting is easy to read. If you're writing in a format similar to a novel, make certain to indent.

* Don't be afraid to consider alternate solutions.
The imageboard format is pretty terrible for what we use it for, so it is very understandable writers would have problems. There's no way for an author to know how many people are reading their story, or what the overall opinion is of it, other than discussion in the thread.

Don't be afraid to solicit this information with whatever system you happen to come up with. Anon has a crazy fetish for odd voting systems, stats, and so forth. We'll put up with just about anything you'll come up with.

---


This post is getting super long as it is, so I'll just leave it there for now. I don't expect you to agree with all my points, but I do think it is time we seriously discussed how to solve this problem.

Admins: I really recommend we start making a guideline or something to help writers overcome these problems. Even suggesting different choice formats, ways to gauge readership, and so forth would be helpful.

As I've said before, thinking about a solution, even if it is an alternative to the imageboard format, is key. Though that is likely a discussion for another time and place, and something that would need a lot of discussion.
No. 2588
>>2587
>If you're writing in a format similar to a novel, make certain to indent.

Just a heads-up, but the reason no one here seems to indent their stories is because it can't be done. The board doesn't recognize standard indents from any word processor, and automatically deletes "excess" spaces. It's not a deficiency in their formatting, it's just a limitation of the board.
No. 2589
>>2587
>Try for at LEAST once a week, though, even if you have to cut walls up into smaller chunks.

Anon hated it when I did this, though.

>*Bad ends are not your friend.

All of that stuff is pretty much why I said my story wouldn't have bad ends. Everybody immediately jumped on it saying it'd be the next snow end.
No. 2591
>>2588

Huh, I wasn't aware of this. Are there any possible solutions anyone has thought of? Such as some board code or something?

>>2589

Anon is hard to please, what can I say? All I know is that when a story starts taking more than a week to update, I gradually stop reading, even if its something I like.

Its just so frustrating to check back every few days and see nothing. It wouldn't have been so bad when more stories were updating, but so far nearly every single story I was previously reading has died.

There are a couple I have started that seem to be going strong, but with most the stories I loved being fucking dead, I (and I think most other anon) are pretty damn skeptical about the site recovering, even if we desperately want it.

That was part of why I was getting on HY's case about the boards thing. I'm not sure if HY realizes how delicate of a situation this site is in. I say with all seriousness that unless something is done to curb the current vicious cycle of writers quitting and anon growing weary and not voting, this site very well could die off somewhat soonish. Or at least degrade to the point where no one wants to even come anymore.

I'm honestly worrying a bit about the discussions that have been occurring in /blue/. sure, getting rid of weak links is fine. I just worry about it getting out of control.

Keeping a community together is not an easy task, especially not the rather unique one we have here. I do not envy the admin team.
No. 2594
>>2591
>All I know is that when a story starts taking more than a week to update, I gradually stop reading, even if its something I like.
>Its just so frustrating to check back every few days and see nothing. It wouldn't have been so bad when more stories were updating, but so far nearly every single story I was previously reading has died.

This. This a million times over.

Even worse is the amount of unfinished stuff on this site. I've lost count of the number of times I started following something for at least a month, slowly gaining more and more interest, then BAM. "I'm not satisfied about something, hence indefinite hiatus"
At this point I don't even bother following anything new regardless how much I like the writing, mostly because I know it's probably not going to get finished.

Honestly, all I ever wanted was for a decent writer to finish more stories than they abandon. I'll wait that full week for an update no problem, as long as I know you're not going to disappear on me.
No. 2595
>>2587
I agree with most of this, but not the bad ends part. There are times when anon does something so stupid, awkward, and/or contradictory that the story is going to be worse off unless it's retconned. Anything from killing Rumia to creeping out Meiling to attacking Reimu/losing the camera/whistling for Tewi/giving up the box/etc. Nobody will be happy if things continue on from a situation like that.

In fact, there was just a great example of this in kriss's story. "Marisa's house" was listed along with the shrine and home as places to go to (I can't stand recurring generic MAP SELECT choices like this but that's a separate issue), and anon voted for it. So the protagonist wanders off into the Forest of Magic - which, as had been pointed out about 10 goddamn times by everyone in the story, was full of dangerous man-eating plants - wanders off alone and defenseless and gets lost. (>>>/th/100512) Since the story is very slice-of-life and the protagonist had not been a suicidal fucking moron up to that point, it was very out of character and impossible to explain to all the friends who had just seen her through another near-death experience.

Even anon realized that the best solution to this was a bad end. (>>>/th/100512) Soon the bad end comes around (>>>/th/100719) and everyone votes to go back and NOT wander into the forest and the story is completely unfucked and continues on and everyone's happy. This is how it should work.

So then anon writes-in to ask Aya to bring her to Marisa's house, which works out perfectly. This 100% non-retarded way of getting there should have been the writer-provided choice in the first place, but again, that's a whole other issue.
No. 2596
>>2595

The sad thing is that I had been voting in that story, but couldn't be at the computer when those votes were made. By the time I got back I was only able to make a vain plea for an alternate course of action other than diving into an obvious hole trap before we were devoured. God-damn anon can be retarded sometimes.

With my big-ass post above, I didn't mean to imply that bad ends should never be done. Just that they shouldn't be abused. Does anyone here remember the sudden influx of arbitrary bad-ends toward the end of the first run of TS?

Or the countless bad ends on this site that have been the result of seemingly innocent options such as "[_] Enter Room" or "[_] Go Right" ?

Yeah, that shit is frustrating. Its not as bad as it used to be, but occasionally you'll come across a bad end where you're just scratching your head going "now how the fuck was I supposed to know about that?"

I just kinda feel that anon needs a bit more of a safety net in regards to bad ends so we don't have to be so damn paranoid all the time. Kriss did a decent job with that one though.

Of course, like you said, sometimes a choice is so utterly batshit retarded, that you should go ahead and kill them in the most painful and humiliating way possible.
No. 2597
File 125687162961.jpg - (40.92KB , 532x304 , 1256261994075.jpg ) [iqdb]
2597
The points made here are decent.

But it was doesn't change the fact that most of the popular stories on each board is only updated once a week, at best.
Exceptions are obviously known.
/eientei/
Overall opinion: The Aisa Himegami Board

Teruyo- Somewhere near end game(?)
Harker- Considered to be dead. May come back as a Zombie
Anonymous who writes the Mokou story and DEFT- Currently RAGING at Anonymous, maybe quit due to NOT ENOUGH VOTES ;_____;
SerialATA: ???? Never got into his story.

/forest/

Overall opinion: Alive Board but not for everyone.
Klaymen: Alive. Haven't read his story since atleast the 4th thread. Speed is ???? to me.
Norseman- Alive. Haven't read since Yukari died.
Speed is ???? to me.
MikoSpark- Alive. Haven't read since 1st thread due to railroading and slight dislike to his Marisa. Speed is ???? to me.
Anonymous who writes the Grey Stories-Not really sort of alive. Haven't read many since the end of the SDM one. Speed is slow as fuck.
Probably triplessTeruyo
All others- Stories don't look promising. Not picked up yet.
Scorn- GM and Tetrominion dead. The worst type.

/border/
Overall opinion: Alive. TONS of [x]fags in certain stories.

Angry Desu SoS- Alive. Haven't read since Alice attacked. Speed is obviously slow. Rather popular, but will probably be dropped again.
Blazing Vangogh- Been following since 1st thread. Speed is sporadic, but still alive.
Anoynmous of the Grey Stories- Sorta Alive. Haven't been following since atleast 1 thread before the hiatus. On hiatus again(?)
Patchwork- Alive. Another popular story. Haven't read since drinking with Ran. Speed is sporadic. This sites version of Leisure Suit Larry and posters. Speed is slow.
EXNine- ???? Dead?. Don't know. Never read any of his stories. And after all those threads, glad I didn't.
All others- Dead. Stories don't look promising.

/shrine/
Overall opinion: Might have to call in McCoy soon board.

DEFT Anonymous- DOORMAT MC,loony yet excellent writer, updates once a month at best. Hiatus every other time.
All other writers- Read all 1st threads. But could not get into the groove, if you know what I mean.

/sdm/
Overall opinion: McCoy fucking dead board.

Haven't read really anything worthwhile since Flea in a Dog House, That Grey Story, HY's SDM run, and Saguya threads. It's really disappointing and saddening.

/youkai/
Overall opinion: Dead board.

Only the rare updates from Sanae Story keep me coming back. Although that plot device is annoying. Attempting to get into Lion's story, never read his story ever.
I suspect due to a bitter bitter taste in many Anonymous mouths after Tetro left.

/underground/
Overall opinion: McCoy fucking dead board.

Say what you will, but Grue was only weak second wind. (At this point in time)
Seems to have alot of unknown? tripfags. All stories read, but not "good" enough to get into.

/others/
Overall opinion: Dead Board

???? is quite the saving grace. When he updates.
Everything else is forgettable. And Calling all story really came off on me as a Inuya---fuck I'll stop there.

/blue/
More like /bros/
/coriander/
Yuuka ;___;
No. 2598
>Anonymous who writes the Mokou story and DEFT- Currently RAGING at Anonymous, maybe quit due to NOT ENOUGH VOTES

Nah, not likely. Just going through a rough patch.

>DEFT Anonymous- DOORMAT MC,loony yet excellent writer, updates once a month at best. Hiatus every other time.

Calling Arc a doormat is a bit of an oversimplification. Sure he's not the most confident or dominating personality out there, but he's got his priorities straight. The once a month bit isn't true though. Though updates have been scarce due to various factors. Ideally it'd be several updates per day, or so I'd like it to be.

You are right about the loony bit admittedly. Being deranged comes with the territory.
No. 2599
>>2597

Wow. A more uninformative, opinionated, and altogether useless report I couldn't have mustered without heavy drinking. You, sir, are no reporter, have poor grammatical prowess, and you're an outright ass.

Could someone who actually pays attention to the boards give us a real status update?
No. 2600
>>2597

Funny, I stopped reading Norseman's story a little after Yukari died as well. I have no idea what it is, but I can't bring myself to read the story anymore. This is odd to me, since I actually like norse mythology and loved the story all the way up until that point. I couldn't even tell you what he's doing different now, or anything detracting from it. I've been considering giving it another go, though.

That aside, the sheer number of stories that have just died off is staggering, and is probably the root of most of the problems we have now. I simply don't trust the writers on this site to finish anything. And I'm really sick of getting my hopes raised up by a decent introduction, and then crushed when it just stops.

It reminds me of the shareware days of gaming when I used to clear the shareware version of the games I played, but then never got to get the full version because I was too young and didn't have money. I still don't think I ever got to see the completion of the Commander Keen series. (Note to self, Commander Keine: Goodbye Gensokyo, best cyoa idea ever)

The sad thing is that I'm not really sure what the writers can do to fix this. Finishing stories is an obvious one, but that is a long term solution that doesn't really help us now. That trust is just going to be really difficult to earn back. Maybe if we had more stories that had relatively few updates until their next run?

The sheer lack of activity on /sdm/ in particular is god damn depressing. Many of the stories I have liked were housed here.
No. 2607
Gentlemen, a few insights if you will.

About the speed of updates, I know I have been guilty of being a really slow writer from time to time. I can understand perfectly why Anonymous wants speedy updates, after all I myself find frustration in some stories that update really infrequently.

But I ask of you, are you perhaps demanding too much of your writefags? I can only speak for myself, but as fun as writing is, it's not going to get my coursework done, nor will it put food on my table. It's a hobby, and if the writefag has more important things to do, then writing must wait. I'm often very busy myself, or more likely drunk, so I don't have the time to update as often as I would like.

And sometimes, certain updates don't come out as intended and thus require rewriting. Or writer's block strikes, or simple exhaustion or lack of inspiration.

I do agree that writers should try to update at least once a week though, but sometimes it just isn't feasible.

On bad ends, they do have a place in CYOAs. Never as punishment, but as logical consequences of certain actions they serve to make clear the rules of the game, so to speak.

Otherwise I basically agree with long-winded Anon's long-winded post.


And on a personal note, I can see how killing off a lovely seventeen-year-old could be a bit off-putting to readers. She got better though.

Not to hijack the thread, but if anyone has criticism, you're always welcome to present it to me.
No. 2608
>>2607

My issue wasn't with killing Yukari (though I guess that might be part of it). It was more just the lack of interaction with Alice and Marisa for a while after that. That and the fact that I don't think I find Loki very enjoyable. Very hard to place.

I think the whole border section of the story was basically your Namek, if that makes sense.
No. 2610
>>2597
>McCoy fucking dead board.
Are you that idiot that keeps posting that fucking pic?
No. 2617
>>2607

Your posts are very meaty and you still update faster than Harker and Glasnost.

That and I think Yukari isn't dead dead, just not exactly living at the moment.

>>2597

The fact you haven't bothered to read all the active stories makes you a poor judge of things.
No. 2618
>>2599

Only posted it in a way Anonymous could not avoid to read. Glad it worked.
No. 2619
File 125693106755.jpg - (43.38KB , 400x600 , 1256838916030.jpg ) [iqdb]
2619
>>2599

>You, sir, are no reporter, have poor grammatical prowess, and you're an outright ass.
>,and you're

You don't really need to comma and "and" at the end of a list. Just and is good enough. Ass.

>>2617

Define active. I'm sure that Anon is going by a minimum 1 update a month scale.
Which is really sad in its own right.

>>2610

I just close any thread which has that in it and no timely report from the writefag following

There are only assholes, pussies and dicks on the internets.
No. 2620
>>2619
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma

Arguably, the comma wasn't needed, but he's still grammatically correct.
No. 2621
Hay guys? It would be wonderful if this thread could not devolve into a retarded argument over grammar. No one really cares.
No. 2623
An attempt at a more accurate analysis of the boards.

Won't take /gensokyo/ 's bracket of things into account due to its nature, but check out /gensokyo/ and /at/ time to time for the few stories that are there.

/th/ liveliest board
Stories
Gensokyo High: Nice quality story, nice update speed (Taisa updates a few times a week), and people do call him out on his flaky moments. Despite its name it's a high school in gensokyo.

Restorer in Gensokyo: Slice of Life with a lovely femanon. Updates at least once a day. Sure it may not be the most perfect story, but enjoyable.

Monkanon story: A great story taking a unbeaten path through things. And he's a very understanding writer, a prime example for everyone else writing today. Sure he may not update at least once a day, but in a month you can expect more than one update with ease.

The Murasa one: A nice little read, not the most polished thing.

Gensou Coil: Long time story still rather active. Speed a bit uneven, but it does have quick periods.

Snake's stories: He's another old writer that still is rather active, his stories are interesting in regards, and his /underground/ one is just off the wall amusing.

/eientei/ slow board other than Serial Ata's efforts (his story is rather nice)

Hard to tell if Storyteller cares about his story anymore even after the complaints of lack of discussion.

Harker is Harker.

There's this new anon writing a story there, not sure about him yet.

/forest/ not the fastest board, but it's pretty alive with Klayman, Norseman, and MikoSpark's stories.

ORBS: Nice Marisa centered story with an interesting backplot. Update speed decent.

I, Youkai: Slice of Life of a cute paranoia Youkai, Phobe. Update speed pretty nice.

Gensokyo Land Saga: Very nice tale, update speed isn't super fast, but his posts are well sized and written.

That new Alice story: Another potentially nice one, decent update speed there as well.

/border/ Another slow board, Angry Desu's latest story is here. Not many new stories, but that Circle of Makai's starting to pick up some. But most of the stories on the front page are alive but slow.

SoS: AD's latest story; decent update speed, nice story. Let's hope he finishes it for once.

/shrine/ Gained some life with RIM's story. But kinda dead otherwise. The trend of bitchification of Reimu in many other CYOA's doesn't help.

AoS: RIM's story, a nice little tale, though the concept might be confusing, read the backstory. Has one of the nicer Yukaris seen. Update speed nice, quality's nice if not perfect.

Messing with Suika: A silly story about a guy pulling pranks on Suika.

/sdm/ Dear god, what has happened to this one famed board? If not for say FoSL and Tesla and Dune's story, it'd be dead. If any writers were to get a kick to get them going again it'd be those that write here.

/youkai/ Suffered the most from the site's death, since a good chunk of its writers were lost in the move.

FoM: Lionel's been updating this nicely and it's a nice tale.

Gekko's story seems to have been rushed to the end due to the slow period. Too bad it'd have been nicer if he didn't rush it.

That Sanae story isn't bad, but has a few issues to work out, but it has potiental.

/underground/ Decently lively board

That story with the mega walls: Nice if a downer at times, update speed isn't an issue due to the size of them.

Sukima's Rin story: Nice story that has some speed, seems easier for him to write it than his /border/ story.

Choja's underground story: A nice one with a decent speed.

ULA is nice but slow update speed. It's rumored that Glasnost might pick up his update speed for both stories, but who knows.

But it seems the three stories that were first here seem on hiatus.

DU: Whatever happened it seems Grue burnt himself out, and people are ripping into him. I'd be surprised if he ever resumes. (Insulting posts are not motivators)

Gensokyo is not Real: On Hiatus

Hell's Ravens: On Hiatus as well, but considering things, not surprising.

/others/ A slow board, but not dead.

Shadow over Gensokyo is a dark gritty one

LoM by ???? is also nice if slow.

as far as the other boards

/blue/ Asides from Deisaxis's Blue team in Gensokyo (akin to Heavy in Gensokyo), it's a festering pit of hatred. They have indeed removed some terrible writers from here, the fear exists that they might go too far one day. I suspect it's folks here that are mucking about Grue's thread.

/coriander/ A board all about green haired Touhous, home to a nice Yuuka CYOA. This is closest to the intent that HY had when making the boards.
No. 2624
>>2623
Wiseman, do you really think anyone cares about your opinion?
No. 2626
Dammit HY, there's too many boards now. My screen doesn't display them right anymore.
No. 2627
>Hard to tell if Storyteller cares about his story anymore even after the complaints of lack of discussion.

Hey, I care and I will come back to it, probably this weekend. Problem is, I'm notoriously poor at multitasking and I'm writing another story, plus a novel for NaNoWriMo.
No. 2629
>>2624

Isn't it a bit presumptuous to seriously think that it's Wiseman's post? The only way to know for sure is if one looked at the post's IP address, but I'm sure that'd just reek of IRC plotting otherwise.

And he isn't the only one with a less than favorable opinion of /blue/ (See post >>2500 )

And it isn't as moronic as one'd expect Wiseman's post to be if all that's said is correct about the man.
No. 2630
>>2624

Isn't it a bit presumptuous to seriously think that it's Wiseman's post? The only way to know for sure is if one looked at the post's IP address, but I'm sure that'd just reek of IRC plotting otherwise.

And he isn't the only one with a less than favorable opinion of /blue/ (See post >>2500 )

And it isn't as moronic as one'd expect Wiseman's post to be if all that's said is correct about the man. Not like >>2597 That I can believe to be a Wiseman post.
No. 2631
> /coriander/ A board all about green haired Touhous

I'm still scratching my head over why we need a board sorted by fucking hair color of all things. I really wish he'd change /green/ to something a bit more useful.

> the fear exists that they might go too far one day.

This. They've done good so far, as far as I can tell. But I worry they might start jumping the gun. I really don't think that a consensus on /blue/ alone should be enough to take action. Afterall, many of us might not be reading /blue/ and not even realize they are targeting something they shouldn't until its too late.
No. 2632
>>2630

>>2597 is indeed moronic, but the post isn't in Wiseman's style. Wiseman's posts usually consist of a series of sentence fragments separated by double spaces, and there are a few words he likes to use a lot. I don't think that post is his because of what it says about /blue/.

Even if it isn't Wisman it's still moronic. It and >>2597 are the same sort of shit people posted in POWERLEVEL threads way back in the day.

>>2631
You realize that /blue/ has no real power, right? Anon can't ban people or anything, and if someone is stupid enough to sagebomb they get banned. Even if a few anons did somehow to go "too far" by making a decision a significant portion of the site disagreed with, there would be no permanent damage.
No. 2633
It's funny how people are only just starting to criticize the methods we've always used to keep the general quality of the site higher than what most other fanfiction sites average. What's even funnier is that everyone I've seen complain about it hasn't even been around for a full year. It's a prime example of newfags refusing to accept and adapt to the way we run things.
No. 2634
>>2632
>Even if a few anons did somehow to go "too far" by making a decision a significant portion of the site disagreed with
Just look what happened in kriss's thread. In that case the guy got banned (for flooding), but not before anon went after him for attacking a decent story and shut him up. The users are doing a pretty good job policing themselves.

>>2630
Wiseman, give it up. You're so awful we can smell you.
No. 2635
Shitstorm is the way things are kept safe for you, the user. It's the way things are done. If you don't get it then perhaps you should lurk more. /blue/ /bros/ know what needs purging, aside from a few idiots, our means are just.

Real Internet Heroes
No. 2637
>>2633

Where are you even getting your information? Does each anonymous in this thread have a time counter next to their name telling you how long they have been around? No. For all you know, every single person you are talking to has been around longer than you.

Hell, I've been around since the original threads on /jp/ (admittedly it took me about a month or so to realize this site got made). Maybe you should get your facts straight before making assumptions that you have zero basis for.

And no, we didn't have a specific board for venting our hate and deciding what stories we kill. Those decisions were either made in-thread, or completely off site. I would say the IRC filled this purpose before, but that would be ignorant of me, since I have never been in there.

>>2632

/blue/ is doing just fine right now, but what they do in the future is a valid concern. We totally need to make sure things written here are up to our standards. But we do not need decisions to kill stories being made hastily, and we do not need hatred and drama to be spread.

It would just be nice to know what recourse we have against a small group deciding that a story doesn't meet their standards.

What are we supposed to do if a decision is made on /blue/ (or anywhere else) to bomb a thread we're enjoying? Likely we wouldn't even know it is coming until it happens, since we probably won't be reading /blue/ unless we have something to complain about.

That and it is difficult to tell how many people are actually taking part in a discussion, so a consensus might be reached by only a couple of (very opinionated) people. It only takes a couple of determined anon to kill a thread, afterall.

We definitely need self moderation, but we need guidelines for it. There should be a process, and part of this process should be making a post on the thread in question warning that it is being considered for death, and give people a chance to go "hey, we're actually reading this, back the fuck off"

It isn't even /blue/ itself I have a problem with. I don't think /blue/ is a specific group of dirty, hateful trolls. That would just be silly. It just has the potential to be abused.

I honestly do think we need a place to talk about this stuff and make those decisions. I think /blue/ is the ONLY board HY added that we had any actual need for. But if HY really wants us to self moderate, there are going to need to clear guidelines, otherwise drama IS going to result. And drama is the last thing this site needs right now.
No. 2638
>>2637

tl;dr, since it really needs it:

My concern is a very vocal (and active) minority forming on /blue/ that think they have anon's best interests in mind.
No. 2639
>>2638
>I don't think /blue/ is a specific group of dirty, hateful trolls
Your summary didn't really work.

>>2637
>There should be a process, and part of this process should be making a post on the thread in question warning that it is being considered for death
There really doesn't need to be a process. Let it happen naturally, and you'll find that such posts will occur even without a formal system in place; both Wiseman and J^E had several individual posts throughout their stories by discontented Anons telling them how bad they were. Any time a writer gets one of those and it's not met with a chorus of posts to the contrary, odds are they're on the chopping block; the type of people who post on /blue/ really aren't the type to stay silent and scheme in secret, then unleash sagebombs on unsuspecting writers.

Besides, even if they were, what's the worst that a dedicated group of malcontents can really do? If someone tries to sagebomb a decent story, post and say "fuck you I was reading that", then get on IRC and bug HY. If the supporters outnumber the sagebombers, the posts will get deleted and all is well again; if it happens again, bans can be delivered as appropriate.

tl;dr A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free Board, the right of the people to keep and bear Sage, shall not be infringed.
No. 2640
>>2639

I guess that makes sense. I'm mostly just hoping that most stories get left alone unless they are mind numbingly bad.
No. 2642
>>2587

I like reader input on my stories as much as the next writefag, but truth be told, I'd much rather have negative viewpoints. Positive reinforcement is good to a point, but criticism makes me motivated to improve in order to gain the approval of the detractors.
No. 2643
>>2642
What this person said.

A thousand times what this person said.
No. 2644
>>2643
What this person said.

A thousand times what this person said.

Criticism is a million times more useful than praise.
No. 2659
Urgh, this thread makes me want to stop writing, if only for the general neediness of many of the opinions here.

For one, while I can understand why you'd ADHD off a story simply because it didn't update five times a day, the majority of us, unfortunately, DO have lives to attend to. Mine included. There will periods where I'm simply unable to have much free time for days on end, certainly not enough to write, especially with how long it typically takes me to write an update. (1~2 hours, 3~5 hours if I'm writing in /border/, I know that's a long time, but that's my own fault)

People getting disinterested in stories over writefags abandoning them is a more valid point, but still irks me due to the first point made. The anon here are people, real people, not you know, bots, /b/tards (usually) or complete idiots (sometimes). No, I've learned this because many of the people I see voting around THP actually has, gasp, sense. Actual common sense. Because they will make understandable, reasonable, and typically decent votes when the situation calls for it. Writefags are no different; they suffer the same way anon does and thusly, they're just as ADHD as anon is. Just as much as anon likes to hop from story to story, most writefags typically like doing the same thing. They'll write for a while and find that they want to do something else after a while. Of course, there's a solution to this. Keep stories short, simple, and casual. When I first started ASL, I felt like dropping it, for two primary reasons. One of them was because I fucked with the story in ways I shouldn't have. But the other reason was because I overcomplicated it and made it much longer then I really wanted it to. So I started SotH keeping the shorter storyline in mind. It still felt a little too long and to boot, it feels rather boring. (I've realized I make a rather sad Ran) However, when I started my Rin story in /underground/, it felt right; the small length, the pacing, the overall simpleness of it, both I and my readers have really enjoyed it.

I think where I'm trying to go with that second point is exactly why HY made those random boards a while back.

I probably should read the rest of the thread, but I'm tired, and just wanted to comment on those two points.

tl;dr:

For anon, give the writefags some time. Webcomics and so forth usually don't update more then once a day, apply the same patience to our stories. Your efforts will be rewarded.

For writefags, don't overcomplicated your story. Keep things simple, fun and overall enjoyable for both yourself and anon. Planning a thousand and one things and trying to put 30k characters into a single post will only slow the story down, make it harder to read and thusly, lower the overall performance of the story. If you MUST have an elaborate story, make absolute sure you and your audience are well prepared for it, because it's not something just anyone can pick up and do.

Now I'm going back to bed.
No. 2660
>>2659

You can tell I need sleep near the end. I just proof read it.

For the record, I meant webcomics don't usually update more then once a week, at least not the ones I keep up on. Any that do are either sprite comics, are very...low quality comics.

Also, mind the rest of the typos. Now I think I'll take that nap. x_x
No. 2663
>>2659

> while I can understand why you'd ADHD off a story simply because it didn't update five times a day

The issue is writers not writing for weeks or months at a time. No one is asking you to update that often (one of my points specifically was to NOT update that often). Maybe you should take the rage down a notch and try to discuss this without being insulting to the very people you are trying to appeal to.

I was going to quote the rest of your post, but honestly, it comes off as an angry rant that doesn't seem to be based on anything actually said in this thread.

It sounds more like you skimmed the thread, not actually reading it, and then decided to use it as a place to rant. That's cool too, this is as good a place as any for writers to rant about their readers. In fact the writer sharing their point of view is encouraged. But don't make it seem like we're attacking writers, or even being demanding, because we are not.

I don't think "finish what you start" is very demanding, afterall.

Writers have been complaining about wanting more votes/discussion/criticism/whatever for a while now. You have been given advice on how to get that. Nothing more, nothing less. You can either take that advice, or not.
No. 2664
>>2663

Wow, good job not only being totally wrong about my post, but completely admitting WHY you're completely wrong about my post.

Read my post and try replying again. Or maybe I should actually point out the posts I was referring to?

Anyways, not really angry. The opening of my post probably just made it sound that way.

Ps, your sarcasm detector appears to be broken.
No. 2665
>>2664

> Wow, good job not only being totally wrong about my post, but completely admitting WHY you're completely wrong about my post.

Wat?

No, seriously: what? That makes absolutely no sense. That and its awfully presumptuous of you to say that I am "totally wrong" about your post, especially when you don't explain why. I'm also not really sure how I proved myself wrong. Care to elaborate on that? I'm not even trying to be an ass here, I honestly want to know what you meant, because otherwise you sound like you basically pulled a "NO U".

Yes, you probably should point out the posts you were talking about. And you should know by now that sarcasm doesn't really work on the internet.

My point still stands. You started your post off as being overtly insulting, and disregarding what was actually said in this thread. If you want to bring up stuff against the readers, fine. But don't make it seem like we've been making demands in this thread when we haven't.

In the future, when people try to give you honest advice, you might try to talk civilly, instead of implying they have ADD, or whatever other thinly veiled insult you want to throw in there. People will take you a bit more seriously, and you'll actually have your opinion heard.
No. 2672
>>2665
You might want to take some of your own advice and stop being so overly hostile, bud.
No. 2673
>>2672

Point taken, I apologize
No. 2681
To be honest, I've had the term ADHD thrown around me so much that there's practically no way it could ever stand as insulting. However, if you feel that being called such is an insult, I'm sorry. But I myself don't really find anything overly bad about having a short attention span; very large majority of humans are like that.

Anyways, the reason why I said "lol no u" was because I never really implied people should update a ton, unless my sarcasm missed the mark. My point was that anons complaining about the lack of updates should be more patient because sometimes, it seriously cant be helped, you can't nudge a writer to write if they have more pressing matters to attend to. (I'd sure rather try and keep my financial status in check then try and write a story I pass off as a hobby)

Second, if you had actually read my post, you'd have discovered that I was trying to bring understanding into the thread, in both writefags and anon alike. You'd also have seen that I actually said it myself that I kinda skimmed through the thread (I saw mostly only the posts the IRC channel pointed out) and that I was only replying to what I saw. If what I saw had already been hit with the same things I said etc then I'll apologize again. I was tired and didn't feel like reading the whole thing, just speaking my mind.

I also don't see how I was making you guys out to look like you were attacking people. That's just victimizing yourself there. :\

tl;dr: I admitted my mistakes both in this post and my first one here, and if that's not good enough, then may liberation be my punishment.
No. 2682
File 125704886986.gif - (2.81KB , 286x195 , reaction image.gif ) [iqdb]
2682
>>2681
>I basically skimmed the thread
>It sounds to me like you skimmed the thread
>YOU ARE TOTALLY WRONG ABOUT MY POST
>What
>I skimmed the thread
No. 2683
>>2681

Yeah, admittedly that was at least partly my bad. Your post came off as harsh and accusing (at least in part) to me, and I reacted to it harshly. And yes, even if you don't think so, I did read your entire post. Four times. I understand your points.

Also, sorry if I didn't mention that you had some good points, because you did. I just think most of it was more or less common knowledge by now, as far as writers being just as unfocused as the voters. Though I think you have to understand that is part of the problem. You can't expect anon to stick with your stories if you can't, you know?

I will say that as far as whining goes, the only time I ever see anon complaining about updates is when a week or two goes by. Sometimes I don't see any complaints for around a month, until that god damn McCoy guy shows up. This is usually a red flag for us, since this is what happens before stories die.

Keep in mind that the more consistently a writer misses their updates, the more likely anon is to bail on the story early, rather than risk getting disappointed down the road when it finally dies for good.

So yeah, I think my post(s) came off more hostile than I intended. I just take it personally because I actually DO have ADD, and I am pretty damned patient when it comes to waiting for updates. I found it kinda insulting that you implied anon complains if you don't update 5 times a day, because from my point of view, anon is often way, way more patient than some writers really deserve considering their flakiness
No. 2695
>>2683
>McCoy guy shows up
>usually
fuck no

>this is what happens before stories die
he did it to everything that hadn't updated in like over a month, there's no prediction involved here

I'd think this was Wiseman again except you can organize your thoughts into coherent paragraphs
No. 2696
>>2695

Sorry, I didn't mean that McCoy is a red flag to us, I meant stories not updating for a month is a red flag. I should have been more clear on this.
No. 2699
>>2637

If you wanna play the oldfag card then fine. I've been here on this site since day one when we moved from the Touhou VN forums after being kicked out of /jp/. I've read YWuiG since the first thread. I remember exactly how we handled fanfiction.net quality CYOA and no I am not on about having a dedicated area for discussion about it you moron. Any writefag worth keeping around did exactly what Krisslanza did. They took a step back, improved based on Anon's complaints and came back with a much better story.
No. 2703
>>2699

Wasn't playing the oldfag card. Was merely pointing out that it is not cool assume anyone against a point is a newfag when you actually have no idea if this is the case or not. You know what they say about assumptions afterall.

> and no I am not on about having a dedicated area for discussion about it you moron.

See, I thought you were being civil up until this point. Was that really necessary?
No. 2771
>>2620

The point was being a grammar nazi is unneeded.

>>2623
>>2683
GTFO, tripless Wiseman.
No. 2777
>>2771

I'm not sure if >>2623 is his or not, but >>2683 definitely isn't since I wrote it (I'm OP).

PS:
Nice try YAF
No. 2838
itt: trolls trolling themselves