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231 No. 231
It was suggested in IRC channel that amount of boards should be cut down from original site, and that developed into suggestion to change the dividing system altogether.
Instead areas, we would have genres.

So, how do you feel about this, and what boards would there be? /action/, /adventure/, /mystery/, /sliceoflife/ or what?

No. 233
Horrible Idea. Instead of the usually low level of bitching that occurs when a story goes outside of it's board's locale you'd have people bitching about action stories that don't have enough action or what have you. Not only that, but some writers may feel constrained by being forced into one specific genre.
No. 237
>>233
So, it'd be better just to cut down the amount of boards? As it is we have lots of boards with very slow action.
No. 239
That's a stupid idea. Stories sometimes take a completely different tone compared to when it originally started.
No. 240
Hmm... I don't know how to feel about that. I kind of like the area system, just because I like to know who's going to be encountered in each story. Dividing by genre is a little awkward in that several stories could probably fall under more than one.

I can see why some people would like knowing what sort of story they would be peeking into, but then, I can also see how some people would like to know who they'll be seeing, just because they prefer interacting with certain groups over others.

Well, I guess I personally prefer dividing by location.
No. 241
>>233
That sums up my feelings
No. 242
Bad idea. The only problems with the boards are that theyre too crowded. Lets just keep the out boards and vote in some new ones.
No. 243
Personally, I believe consolidation is in order.

I'd reccomend merging /forest/ and /eientei/ into one and /youkai/ and /shrine/ into another.
No. 244
How about dividing the boards according to the story genre? One for slice of life ones, one for plot driven ones, one for dating sims...
No. 245
>>242

Just curious, but how often do you go to /eientei/? That's a good summary of my thoughts.

Personally, I'd say to broaden the location of some of the boards. But a suggestion's not as good as a plan, so yeah.
No. 246
Words can't describe how terrible an idea that is.

Seriously, keep the old boards the way they are and bring back /i/ for good.
No. 247
>>243
Merging might be alright, but I think it'd make more sense to merge /shrine/ with /border/.
No. 248
Lets have the boards separated into the areas that they take place in. /shrine/, /sdm/ and /eientei/ are good examples. /border/ should be separated into /makai/, /higan/, /mayohiga/ and /however you spell where Yuyuko is/. /gensokyo/ should be created to do what /th/ does now and /th/ should become an general board.
No. 249
>>245
I have to confess that I seriously check the place(outside check for spam) maybe one in a month, if even that.

So now it has been suggested that /eientei/ and /forest/ are fused, just like /shrine/ and /border/. I'd say that'd work.
No. 250
>>248
Do you really need to split it? Currently there's maybe three or four slow stories in /border/.
No. 251
No /chireiden/ or /seirensen/?
No. 252
A note from your new overlord regarding this.

Nothing will change until the userbase makes a proper decision. Nothing will be pushed through from IRC or by decision of myself or the other admins. You people have control here. Talk it over.
No. 253
>>251
We need an /underground/.
No. 254
Just keep the place like it was originally but at the new areas like /underground/ and /sky/. There's no need to split up the existing ones or merge them, aside from maybe the /others/-/alt/ thing and /th/-/gensokyo/ thing.
No. 255
>>251
You mean for setting up matches, or for new characters? They can go to other places.
>>253
This is one that needs to be added.
No. 256
>>254
This looks like the best option.
No. 257
There are two issues at work here. One is whether our userbase is stretched too thin on the boards that we do have or not. The second is which style of board division we should have in the first place.

The first problem is a life and death issue. If the userbase gets stretched too thin, the writers are quite eligible to lose interest in writing altogether, while if the boards are too crowded, old threads get bumped off too quickly. But since we already DO have a repository for the old threads at http://z4.invisionfree.com/touhouvn/index.php?showtopic=176 I really don't see how being bumped off the boards is a huge problem in the first place. As long as no /active/ thread gets killed out, everything is good. Maxed out threads really aren't that relevant. Besides, with the boards now controlled by us, the users, we can always raise the limit at which posts DO get bumped off.

So, whether we should consolidate, or spread more thinly, I definitely vote in favour of consolidation.

As for the second problem, this one is much more a matter of taste. Drawing lines is never easy, but we must agree here that we must have SOME division. Putting every single story on one board will make it rather difficult to find anything, but just how we should divide it, meh.

The genre division has in it's favour that it's more stable in form than character/location based division: any given story can easily traverse through dozens of locations and hell, the protagonist can meet the entire fucking cast, and unless the writer specifically concentrates on a selected few, it really can't said that a story belongs on any board at all. On the other hand, the genre division has as it's pros that it's a much more stable a construction than caracter based ones, certainly, a story may change it's style over time, but such a change is hardly ever complete, nor does it happen many times in a story.

Also, the secret third question: just how, if at all, are we going to enforce whatever system we have. If there is little to no enforcement it doesn't really matter if whatever we choose is a bit unworkable, as the writefag can always choose where to put his story in.

Just a bit of food for the thought, in the hopes that we can calm some of the knee-jerk reactions against change and hopefully have a reasonable discussion on this.
No. 258
Theres a bit of a concern about adding new boards. Already on THP we have neglected and slow boards that few people check regularly. If more boards are added the voters will be split even further, and THP could become even more slow than it already is.

We really do need a /underground/ though.
No. 260
I highly disagree since the slower stories would suffer badly if they end up in a condensed thread with other faster stories.

And classifying many COYAs would be a unholy bitch to do since many COYAs aren't easily classified.

Take /shrine/ its stories are slow, and as a result if it were in something like /sdm/ or /forest/ they'd get overshadowed.

A standing of sections

/th/ one of the quickest sections due to the two main stories being often updated

/forest/ Decent rate, though to be honest team 9 could be associated with this or /sdm/

/eintei/ another moderate board, though Keine's often lumped into here due ot Mokou.

/border/ a slower board that lumps in 3 main sections (Higan, Netherworld, and Migoya)

/shrine/ a slow section compared to others. Any condensing would have it suffer.

/sdm/a famed board, rather lively, partially due to my work, but that's besides the point/

/youkai/ Is a bit slower than most, but has a few promising stories

/others/ is a rather crowded bunch of AU stories (some organization might help some)


also there's various grey spots, such as the human village, team 9, etc that aren't covered.

there's also the matter of the underground group and the UFO bunch.

Also the reclassification might cause problems for stories made for everything under a section, such as HLA (which covers all 3 major areas of /border/)

I'm against condensing in any form since it'd favor the livlier boards.

But I think an /underground/ should be added since having ULA languishing in /others/ is kinda hindering creative progress concerning everyone's favorite mindreader and her pets.

And possibly splitting /others/ into /au/ and /misc/ (where stories centered on Team 9, the UFO bunch can go)
No. 261
How about creating four to five boards for CYOAs and simply have the boards divided alphabetically? Like board 1 would have A, B, C, D, E, and board 2 will have... you get the idea, right?

The idea doesn't give you much information about the type of story it will be or about what area it will focus on, but...
No. 262
Speaking as a writefag rather than an Admin, I am deeply against genre-based systems here. The freedom of the boards is largely what's given rise to what we've done here. Trying define things like that doesn't work very well and will cause problems.

Tell me, where would I have put SDMLA? Or IPF? IPF changed so much as I was writing it that if I had started it in a genre-based board, I would never have done what I had.
No. 263
Also, while we're at it, would it be possible to change the post limit for threads to, say, infinity? It would definitely help prevent crowding to some extent, since stories would be limited to one or two threads at most.
No. 265
all i have to suggest is Please please please have a general discussion, if its this one thats okay,
but places like voile and stuff don't work for me because theres no place i can talk about touhou
No. 266
>>263
Think back when SDMLA had 400-post threads, or that legendary MiG 1000-post one. Even loading those was hell for some people.
No. 267
>>262
SDMLA was obviously adventure, while IPF is slice of life, even with the silly dark understory it still didn't end up as anything but.

Also, do remember that the current system as equally as bad classification issues. If not worse ones. The current division has the weight of being the current system on it's back, thus any changes from it will face opposition, some pretty acrid, IMO now is the perfect time to raise a discussion on whether it is actually the most REASONABLE division that we can come up with.
No. 268
>>263
That would create a whole heap of other problems. Long load times every time you refresh it, trying to find things inside the thread, etc.
No. 269
>>263
Yes, because having to load up a 500+ post thread is always nice, am I right?
No. 270
How about an /alt/ board a /oneshot/ board and a /noncyoa/ board?

The /alt/ board would have CYOAs which use gensokyo characters and are set in a very different setting, instead of Gensokyo itself.

The /oneshot/ board could be a testing grounds for ideas, and possibly a place for sidestories.

And the /noncyoa/ board would be for general discussion regarding Touhou and not getting in the way of CYOAs and bumping them off the front page.
No. 271
Personally, I looked in every section of the old site and due to tabs never had a problem with that. If anything I had a problem with /others/ because it spanned so much.

So I think the 'old' system works fine, with perhaps adding /underground/ and/or /sky/ for th11 and 12.
No. 272
>>257

the archive topic doesn't update enough. And no one wants to muck through the pages.

>>261

What kind of an idea is that?

Since is it that hard to check all the sections? Since I usually have one story at least in one section I keep an eye on.
No. 273
>>270
All good ideas, but make /noncyoa/ into /th/ and the old /th/ into /gensokyo/.
No. 274
All Board are not equal. Some have better write, better voters, have more beautiful stories and are more active.

Keep it all like it is, add /underground/ and all is fine.
No. 275
>>266
Indeed, having too long posts causes severe performance issues. I don't know if it was directly related to it, but when the main touhou NSFW board removed it's post limits on bumpable threads the board started having severe performance issues.
No. 276
Raising the post limit might not be that bad as long as we keep the [Last 50 Posts] thing. Though, if we can't huge threads would definitely cause issues.
No. 277
>>267
>>SDMLA was obviously adventure, while IPF is slice of life, even with the silly dark understory it still didn't end up as anything but.


You're missing the point. It's not about how you classify stories, it's about lack of boundaries when writing them. If I had started IPF in a 'slice of life' board then I would never have written what I did. Equally, SDMLA is adventure? That's so vague it doesn't mean anything to me.
No. 278
More boards is automatically out. The userbase is so thinly stretched that writefags have started to whine. Besides, the voting frequency has gone down the whole fucking time. Some stories writers are happy to get 5 votes in as many days. Consolidating the boards would at least hopefully make some users look at new stories.
No. 279
>>277
And if the current system of location division has not given you too strict boundaries, why would a loose genre division do so?
No. 280
>>266

Wasn't around back then, sorry.

>>268

I see.

I think the current system is more or less fine, though I agree with the addition of a general discussion board, a non-CYOA board, underground, and the split of /others/ into miscellaneous and alternate universe. I'd also like the human village to be lumped in with the Hakurei Shrine, but hardly anyone cares about that, yeah?
No. 281
The Genre change would be too drastic a change for the board. Every story would have to be moved somewhere. Its an overly complicated and overly drastic change.

Nothing is technically wrong with the system we have now. In fact, If we had more users, we could even add more boards, such as /underground/. But that is the problem. We don't have the users to fill a new board. we don't even have users and stories to fill the boards we have now. The only problem with the current system is a contracting user base that pools around certain boards, and a lack of activity on others, leaving them barren and empty. With a waning user base the best solution would be to consolidate what we still have. Combine boards with parallel interests. Such as /forest/ and /eientei/ into a /forests/ board that encompases both of them plus the human village. or /youkai/ and /shrine/ to one board that deals with the shrine maidens or the tengu.

That said, there's nothing with what we have now, really. just a userbase spread too thin, so nothing has to be done immediately.
No. 282
>>279
HY is opposing the genre idea. Everybody else is too, so that idea is out.
No. 283
>>266
I remember that. Good times. I hope kira comes back soon.
No. 284
>>283
having fun in Gensokyo, ruffling little girl hairs, visiting the places th- OMGWHATISGOINGONDEADRABBITSSUDDENLYREIMUGOINGBERSERKHUNTINGDOWNYOURASS

Look, it is snowing
No. 285
>>278
As someone said, the problem with combining boards risks the slower stories being smothered by fastpaced ones.
No. 286
>>254
I agree with this, /th/ and /others/ are the only ones that have ever really had active threads pushed off the front page. We'd probably be fine with adding one more general board, along with /underground/ of course.
No. 287
>>285
I don't think this is a real problem. We don't have super fast stories needing a new thread every day anymore. Those days are gone.
No. 289
>>285
I think that possibility is outweighted by the potential increase in readership and votes for the "slower" stories. As its moved onto a new board and bumped, more of a chance people will read it, the more votes and bumps it gets. After that... well frankly its the authors fault for letting it fall that far, as it works in the faster boards. Also, it could be a slight motivation factor for some authors. (if my story was being updated more I'd probably be motivated to update it faster)

I mean, I'm not being cruel and saying people should update faster like some draconic oarsman drummer, but thats just how the system works. The story would be equally viable on a faster board as it is on the slower. We can also help these slower threads by removing the threat they can be bumped off the boards.
No. 290
>>288
Not seeing your updates up yet, buddy.
No. 293
I think everything was fine before, but now since we can design the site as we wish we should at least add /underground/ /UFO/ and of course a drawing board, a general discussion board, we already have a NSFW board and we should include some sort of download board.
No. 294
>>281

the problem with certain things is that some areas inspire more than others.

That and I wonder if /shrine/ is haunted by "This Shrine" and its disaster, since it was basically the board's definitive story. That and the /shrine/ bunch seems to be more preferred as support than stars.

/youkai/ has yet to have a real definitive story (but so far I'd say FoM or Echo might be close)

/SDM/ has our new overload's masterpiece, SDM LA

/Border/ has in at least recent memory, HLA.

/others/ is such a mess it's hard to tell about its definitive story.

I think /th/ was home to many massive stories of old, including Kira's moment of infamy.

/forest/'s definitive story seems to be FoM LA, even though it's on hiatus, though a few other stories are in competition.

/eientei/'s well harder to decide... some might say DoLF/ELA. But it's more defined by ongoing stories than past ones.

But the point is past stories inspire others, and if the impression left by a story is lackluster, then the board suffers for it.

>>283
if he does he'd have to do it under another name; the snow end is that infamous.
No. 295
>>293
>we should include some sort of download board

We already had something like that with Releases. Practically no one used it though.
No. 297
>>293

the old board did have a download board, /r/ but I think it was kinda ignored by most compared to the others.

>>289

Some folks do have lives, and the down time mess didn't help. And and updating too fast can result in sucky updates. And I'll tell you it's not easy keeping an eye on quality while doing my rather fast updates.

Yeah I admit I'm rather Hikki.
No. 298
>>297
You know, there's a difference between updating rarely and quality. With the way things are now, most stories you're lukcky if they get updated once a week, three times a month is a half-miracle nowdays. Really, I wasn't THAT long ago that not updating at least once a week was considered rude to readers. Now it's customary, and people like HY that can pull of more than one update a day are considered legendary just because they don't drag their asses. (When they actually do write that is, here's one to hoping HY gets off his slump now that some of the RL issues that had fucked him up are dimished.)
No. 300
>>294
>/youkai/ has yet to have a real definitive story (but so far I'd say FoM or Echo might be close)

Actually, back in the day it had Youkai Mountain LA by Tetrominon. Then he abandoned it, telling us only what the final flags would be for the Sanae route that we pursued. I still hope naively in my heart of hearts that he will one day return.

You hear me Tetro, you bastard? I'm still waiting!
No. 304
/underground/ is crucial. That one definitely warrants a split from /others/.

I also support splitting a /gensokyo/ off from /th/, and leaving /th/ as the general discussion board.
No. 305
>>304

Seconded.
No. 308
>>300

Ah; well to be honest I stopped reading when I found out it was abandoned. (Thus unlike FLA it has no real future; bastard)

>>298

Stuff happens, like one's internet going out. I know that feeling since once upon a time my power supply crapped out. That or creativity problems.

But these guys can bother to actually check (even Grilled Chicken who's in another IRC room I go to) and post status reports.
No. 310
Maybe something like this?

/th/ or /general/ - general discussion and announcements
/gensokyo/ - Same as old /th/ but for stories only
/forests/ - Merger of /forest/ and /eientei/
/border/ - Same as before.
/shrine/ - Now including the Moriya shrine and Byakuren's new temple.
/SDM/ - Same as before.
/underground/ - Renamed from /youkai/
/others/ - Mostly AU stories, same as before. Possibly rename to /outside/?
No. 311
>>310

No since that's cause /shrine/ stories to suffer.

Condensing isn't a good idea at all... but I'm for

/underground/

and splitting /others/ into /au/ and /misc./
No. 320
Why not start with a few boards for general usage, and then add more boards once the volume of traffic warrants it?

The following should be enough for a start:
/general/
/fiction/
/archive/
/videos/
/nsfw/

It's not like things are really busy right now. We can let things take shape as activity returns to the boards.
No. 321
>>320

Thing is, almost all of the site is fiction. If you're counting everything before this test went online, then almost all of the site is archived. That's some serious crowding on one board, and not enough on others.
No. 322
I find the notion that slower stories would "suffer" if placed alongside more active ones to be laughable. A single post in a slow story will still bump it back to the top of the first page. Also, with THP's current speed, it probably would remain on the first page for at least a full day with a single bump.

In anything, I believe CYOAs are benefited by being placed in active boards. Stories in slower boards are often slow simply because the writer does not have enough readers. People are far more likely to check out a story if it shares a board with one they already read.
No. 323
>>321
Then we just divide the fiction board into something generic:
/fiction1/
/fiction2/
/fiction3/

Or better yet:
/fiction-easy/
/fiction-normal/
/fiction-hard/

Three active boards should be more than enough for the active stories. They can dump everything into /archive/ and link their latest updates to the old posts of continuity.

By the time any of the three boards get crowded, we would have a better idea of how to "classify" the stories into something coherent. Doing it the other way around might be counter-productive to both readers and writers.
No. 325
>>323

That's not going to work at all.
No. 327
>>320
>>323
Too many underboards, leaving things like they are right now is the best, only to divide it a bit and put some together like /border/ and /shrine/ and add /underground/ or /sky/ for the Captain and Youkai Jesus.
After the site is finally up and running, which i dont even know when because holy takes his sweet time, it will be slower and adding too much will overload it and just scare people away.
Plus fiction and such will make people think they are on fancition.net or so.
We already have an Archive and videos would be like /tt/
No. 329
>>323

Isn't that swapping one problem for two, though? The problem of splitting boards, as well as that of determining what goes where?
No. 331
>>327

Actually, at this point I suggest just leaving things as is. Activity on the site always did seem proportional to writer activity... the best solution might just be to write more.
No. 333
>>323
I think that this would make things worse than they already are. Lets just keep it at this:

/th/ General chat + old /r/ and maybe touhoutube.
/gensokyo/ Takes the place of old /th/.
/eientei/ /forest/ /border/ ect. all stay the same.
/underground/ and /ufo/ added.
/i/ Keep this. Theres already quality work in there, people like it. Possibly rename to /drawfag/ for the hell of it.
/at/ A much needed board.
No. 336
>>331
I think you writers on IRC are probably like F1 Racers on your mark, engines full powered up just waiting for the sign to go.
>>333
>/gensokyo/ Takes the place of old /th/
No, just no. /th/ needs to stay.
No. 337
>>336
Fine we'll just switch the names.
No. 338
>>329
Just trying to address the already existing problem of the thinning readers between boards. Essentially, we need less boards, rather than more. Some basic criteria to build up to three boards. The three divisions need not even be that strict or enforced at all. It could be as simple as:
/easy/, /normal/, /hard/
/village/, /illusion/, /fantasy/
/chen/, /ran/, /yukari/
/fast/, /normal/, /slow/
/suika/, /suika/, /suika/
/light, /normal, /dark/
/game/, /vn/, /novel/
etc.

As long as it isn't srz business, it should work out fine.
No. 339
>>338
Your going to have to explain this a bit more clearly. It sounds like you want a separate board for every single possible combination.
No. 340
>>339
I think he wants a total of three boards, with distinctions as chosen by us. Something like /gensokyo/, /underworld/, and /supernatural/ or the like.
No. 341
>>339
Just one set is fine. Personally, I like:
/suika/, /suika/, /suika/

But that's just me.
No. 342
>>322

But not all that many people are willing to go into the 2nd page and such.

And there's people who read but don't vote.

>>331

So very true and once someone makes a story that washes the bad taste of YAF out of /shrine/ then it'll pick up.
No. 346
>>331
> leaving things as it is
And waste an opportunity for a fresh start? Why not? Typically Republican, but I suppose it's fine too.
No. 347
>>338
>/easy/, /normal/, /hard/
>/fast/, /normal/, /slow/

Fuck yes! Powerlevels on mai THP!
Be sure to make /bad writers/ /good writers/ /god level writers/ too.
No. 348
>>347

Funny thing you should say that, UBOA said that a few hours ago on IRC.
No. 349
>>342
>But not all that many people are willing to go into the 2nd page and such.

As long as a story is active it's going to be spending a good amount of time on the first page, and more people will see it while it's there than if it spent all the time on the front page of a board no one checks.
No. 350
>>347
>>348
Sarcasm is difficult to convey in words. I was meaning to say that it would be better to use semi-random and arbitrary criteria rather than strict classification. Strict divisions of any type just lead to drama.

/orange/, /indigo/, /violet/
/tha/, /thb/, /thc/
/lunasa/, /merlin/, /lyrica/
/alpha/, /beta/, /gamma/

Sort of like server names. They don't really mean much in themselves except to distinguish them from each other.
No. 365
I'm for the following:

/th/ or /general/ - multi-purpose board, used for announcements, discussions, etc.

/shrine/, /forest/, /sdm/, /eientei/ for stories centered around their respective areas and inhabitants.

/border/ redefined as mostly dealing with Mayohiga house and crew, and some dealings with the outside world.

/afterlife/ split off from /border/, to account for Hakugyokurou, Heaven, and Higan/Muenzuka.

/underground/ split off from /other/, to account for the Underground, Palace of the Earth Spirits, and Makai.

/alt/ for drastically different settings than the Gensokyo we know and love.

/others/ for any setting that doesn't fit in with the other categories, such as the outside world, or the Lunar Capital.*

/tt/ can stay.
/i/ should stay, because THP has had some good drawfags in its history. Might want to consider adding an /ic/ (drawfag critique) board as well.

/ru/ for Requests & Uploads of various natures.

/nsfw/ for adult-oriented pics and doujinshi, and stories of a more prurient nature. In other words, Scorn's playground.

The text boards can stay, though I've never found a use for them.

And, of course, more and different boards as proves to be necessary in the future.



*I'm still on the fence about whether or not the Moon and the Lunar Capital should merge with /eientei/. I'm leaning towards a 'no', though.
No. 369
I think it should mostly stay the same as it was before, with boards added as needed. Right now, the only boards I can see as being good additions are a /underground/ and possibly a /sky/ depending on whether a /sky/ would be used or not. There's no need to change it from how it was, and doing so would complicate things unnecessarily from both the standpoint of the writers who would be needing to move somewhere else and the archivers who would need to find somewhere else to put all the stuff from the old boards. I don't see any gain from changing it other than that it fits some people's preferences more than the original does, so unless the entire community were to say "yeah the old board system sucked let's do THIS" it shouldn't change since it wouldn't be helpful enough to justify all the complications.
No. 370
I'll repost my earlier suggestion:

1. Add a few boards, but for god's sake, don't get carried away. The layout should be the same as before, but a few small additions and changes would be nice to see. Some ideas:

/underground/
>The underground, Hell, Makai, etc.

/mountain/
>Exactly the same as /youkai/, just renamed for clarity.

/alt/
>Alternate Universe stories that deal with Touhou characters in different imaginings of Gensokyo. Before, they would have just gone into /others/, like Touhou Persona, RaAN, Shadow over Gensokyo, Old West Touhou, and so on. (Not sure if "Touhou characters in non-Gensokyo settings" kinds of stories would qualify for that as well, or if they would just stay in /others/.)

/oneshots/
>One-shot, static stories. Might or might not include single-thread stories that still have choices.

/afterlife/
>Hakugyokurou, Higan, the Sanzu, Prismriver Mansion, and so on.


2. Add a small header at the top of each board's main page, just under the title of it, describing what areas or subjects it covers so people know where to post their stuff.
This would help eliminate a bunch of confusion as to what falls under which board's jurisdiction.
For example:

/th/ - General
General stories; anywhere in Gensokyo.

/eientei/ - Eientei
Eientei, the Bamboo Forest

/sdm/ - Scarlet Devil Mansion
The SDM, the lake

/shrine/ - Hakurei Shrine
Hakurei Shrine, the Human Village (maybe? could fall under /others/, too.)

/forest/ - Forest of Magic
Forest of Magic, Kourindou, all things Alice & Marisa

/mountain/ - Youkai Mountain
Youkai Mountain, Moriya Shrine, all things Tengu & Kappa

/border/ - Hakurei Border
Mayohiga, anything to do with frequent Border-crossing or living near it

/underground/ - Underground
Underground, Hell, Makai

/afterlife/ - The Netherworld
Hakugyokurou, Prismriver Mansion, Higan, the Sanzu, etc.

/others/ - Others
Any place not otherwise covered by another board

/alt/ - Alternate Universe
Different takes on and versions of Gensokyo

/oneshot/ - One-Shots
Static one-shot stories, and possibly brief, single-thread dynamic stories.

...but this is just what I came up with.
No. 378
It seems the site's userbase has a serious case of http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StatusQuoIsGod .

Basically what we have is a bunch of myopic users who fear change so desperately that they're ready to shoot themselves in the foot rather then even consider even a minor reform. Hell, this is the USA's health care reform discussion in a microscopic scale. Even though the current system is quite arbitary and spreads the userbase thin, we still stick with it just because it's there. Then we have the bunch who not only want to keep the current system, but add new bells and whistles to it, just to make sure the problems of the old system get exacerbated to the max. Fucking bureaucrats, throwing money at something is not always the solution. Also, are we going to keep adding more and more boards as zun makes his games, even though the userbase has been waning for at least the past year or so?
No. 379
>>378

If you mean readers, we have a decent amount of lazy readers. And it'll take a bit of time for the whole downtime mess to fully resolve in terms of visitor impact.

If you mean writers, the main solution would be for quicker updates from our slow poke writers. Since many stories update slowly these days, that has an impact on general vote output and such.

And there's the possible plans for wide spread advertising to other Touhou boards as to get a possible influx of people.

But just sticking the SA and UFO groups in others is kinda counter productive because /others/ is a basically a messy mix of AU and misc. based stories. (I do think a split of this is need in the future so we can at the very least misc. stories on one hand and AU stories on another)

Barring that, having actual new sections might encourage new writers, since the allure of making the new section's major tale can be quite powerful, as opposed to other sections which have the taint of a disastrous story haunting it, or the shadow of the last major hit story.
No. 381
>>378
The way things are is just fine.
No. 383
>If you mean writers, the main solution would be for quicker updates from our slow poke writers. Since many stories update slowly these days, that has an impact on general vote output and such.

Thats the fucking point of merging the boards. More people read/vote, writers are more motivated, we get a healtier board in genral. You can't just wave a magic wand and make writers suddenly update more often.
No. 389
>>383
This. Fucking this.
No. 393
Hmm, cool disicussion guys. But hey, how about we do something like this:
>/th/
Gensokyo in general, limit-less stories
>/eientei/
This won't change much.
>/border/
Yakumo family, Hakugyokuro and the afterlife. Also merged with /shrine/, since the Hakurei shrine stays under the barrier. Also, more stories in one place, more readers.
>Forest
Seems fine as it is, though there are only two or three active stories there. Maybe merge it with /shrine/ since they are close to each other (that is, if /shrine/ doesn't merge with /border/), and the two main characters of the series would be in the same place.
>/sdm/
Seems fine as it is.
>/youkai/
Seems fine as it is.
>/others/
Slow board is slow and almost forgotten. Only active stories are TAiG. But it should stay as it is, since it's where AU stories fit the most.
>/Sky&Ground/
UFO ans SA stories here. There aren't enough stories SA exclusive stories (like, none), ans UFO is too recent to have one. Also, yin-yang reference, fuck yeah!
No. 394
>>393
Actually, there IS one SA exclusive, but I cant remember it's name nor the writer. Just that it updates once a month.
No. 395
>>393
>merge /shrine/ with /forest/
I don't think it's ever been mentioned in canon that the shrine is near the forest of magic. We're not just going to merge two random boards because they have less traffic.

>/border/ merged with /shrine/
This makes more sense, since the shrine is on the border and both boards are pretty low-traffic (especially shrine). I'm still not sure it's worth merging any boards, though, since moving threads means all new post numbers and broken >> links, or we'd have to abandon the old /shrine/ threads.

>/others/ Slow board is slow and almost forgotten.
Slow? That board has the second highest number of posts after /th/. I saw active threads getting pushed off the front page a couple months ago. What are you talking about?

>/Sky&Ground/ UFO ans SA stories here. There aren't enough stories SA exclusive stories (like, none)
There have been 3 or 4 SA stories. Also, since the UFO characters were sealed underground and half of it takes place in Makai, just using /underground/ for both should be fine. Maybe title it "Underground & Makai"?

>>365
>>370
>/afterlife/
Splitting one of the slowest boards would just get us two incredibly slow boards. /border/ would probably end up with less readers. This isn't a good idea.

>/mountain/ Exactly the same as /youkai/, just renamed for clarity.
Is anyone confused about /youkai/ meaning Youkai Mountain? I'm not sure if this is worth the trouble.
No. 399
>>395
>I don't think it's ever been mentioned in canon that the shrine is near the forest of magic. We're not just going to merge two random boards because they have less traffic.

I've always had the impression that they are close. Seeing some map-esque pictures of Gensokyo didn't help either, neither did TDP. At least the main characters would stay together.
>Slow? That board has the second highest number of posts after /th/. I saw active threads getting pushed off the front page a couple months ago. What are you talking about?

Well...it was slow when the last time I went there.
>There have been 3 or 4 SA stories

Huh, really? The only one I know is the one Anonymater started writing.
No. 403
/others/ is no slower than most boards; the problem is how so much is crammed into it that things tend to suffer as a result.

Due to its messy nature, it doesn't even have defintive story really.
No. 410
/others/ is not crammed, the writefags that make their home there are just exceptionally slow to update. Besides, most of the stories there are dead, only 3 or 4 updated within the month before death, and the active threads of those are hardly enough to even fill the legendary first page.
No. 522
I'm voting for /th/, /gensokyo/, and /third/

Considering the current update speed of the writers, I don't think we'll even need that many. As far as I can tell, there's no real point to having them be divided by location. A lot of stories romp throughout Gensokyo, even if they're in a board for a specific area. Also, competition between writers to stay on the front page might convince the bastards to update more than once a month, lookin' at you glasnost and Harker.
No. 526
Concerning other boards, could we have some non-story boards too? Like, /th/ for general Touhou discussion and like.

Also others, like...
<Vodka> Oh!
<Vodka> I have an idea.
<Vodka> For a discussion, not story board for new THP, add /vn/.
<HY|vidya> Hurk.
<HY|vidya> Erm.
<Vodka> ...Why not?
<HY|vidya> Post the idea on /gensokyo/ I'm not sure it'll go down well but I'll share the idea with the other admins.
<HY|vidya> Honestly? Doesn't seem like other than a few of us there's much VN interest on the site.
<HY|vidya> Which is a shame.
<Vodka> Well, it shouldn't take that much space.
<Vodka> Also, some people might like to have place to discuss them.
No. 530
>>526

I don't see why not. I doubt it will see much use, I won't be using the board.
No. 533
>>526
I'm pretty sure that most people here that like to discuss VNs already do it in /jp/, so it wouldn't really serve much of a purpose. But, it also wouldn't run the risk of slowing things down like another story board would (unless someone pulls writers to revive the Touhou VN hahayeahright), so whatever.
No. 539
>>526
Sounds good. It could only help the development of the damn thing anyway.
No. 540
>>526
you may as well use /umineko/ because that's what 90% of it will be

why VNs and not anime or video games or any other interest some of us share? why a board for that specifically instead of just anything unrelated? we don't even have a general discussion board for touhou and we've been fine without it, people go to /jp/ or poosh for that stuff.
No. 549
>>540
...You know, instead of asking why add that, you could suggest other boards.
No. 561
>>549
I suggest we not add other boards.
No. 565
How about we just leave things as they are and deal with problems when they get serious. We have active mods now so theres no rush.
No. 566
How about adding 2 more pages to each board?
No. 567
>>566
This test board for example has 12-13 pages. Can't remember what I set it to.
No. 568
>>522

It's not so much location but central Touhou characters involved.

And I state people have lives outside of this site, and that includes school and jobs, and perhaps relationships.

All this condense talk basically translates to "fuck the slow boards; delete them"

>>526

I have no problems with that, since I'm all for less clutter in boards.

Since if a board is too cluttered, it'll distrupt the creative flow.
No. 569
>>561
Why would general discussion boards be bad? They wouldn't result in stories being spread wider, if anything they could help generate more interest to site.
No. 584
>>568
>All this condense talk basically translates to "fuck the slow boards; delete them"
Bullshit. Stop making strawmen and have a proper discussion for once, there are more than a few reasons to condense the site, all of which have been repeated ad nauseaum on this thread already. Stop treating your personal opinion like it's some kind of a fact.

>Since if a board is too cluttered, it'll distrupt the creative flow.
Again, bullshit. Board "clutter", as you're so fond of repeating, has never been a problem for the site, no active thread has ever been bumped off. Sure, not all stories can have the oh so lucrative first page in a condensed site, but fuck that, a story that updates once a month doesn't even DESERVE to have that all the fucking time. And if you're so fucking worried about older threads, the limit on when old threads die can always be raised, not that it isn't completely pointless when we already have the quite well updated story archive.
No. 587
>>569
What would be the point of having another Touhou general discussion imageboard? It'll just be a clone of Pooshlmer full of the same images that get reposted from Danbooru. /th/ never had very many discussion topics in the first place, and they're only really useful when new Touhou games come out.
No. 589
>>584

I think the reason there aren't that many underground stories is that they lack a section, and what running stories there are are buried underneath all the AU.

And I've already made my other points earlier of how condensing would be bad.
No. 592
>>584
Christ, who put sand up your ass?

>there are more than a few reasons to condense the site, all of which have been repeated ad nauseaum on this thread already
Yes, but we'd like to hear some GOOD reasons.
No. 596
>>592
Oh, so the boards slowly dying because the userbase is already spread too thin isn't a good reason? Then we also have these retarded dipshits running around who seem to think that everything will be better by adding even MORE boards to an already thinly spread out site. Bloody hell guys, this isn't some fucking 4chan with millions of users, we're lucky if we can gobble together a hundred users total. And no, not everybody bothers to check every board when there's as many as there are now. And no, adding MORE boards will most certainly not make it better either. And the reason I have sand up my ass is pretty simple: I'm fed up with retards who can't look outside their cute little bubble of a story to consider the survival of the site as a whole.
No. 598
>>596
And what reason do you have to believe that splitting the stories up by Gensokyo-relative geography has anything to do with the old site losing popularity? I was with THP at its highs and lows, and the only thing that really seemed to affect the quality of the site was the trolling. It chased away one good writer and probably scared off a good number of potential readers.

Your reasoning isn't sound. The site, as it was, wasn't exactly broken. It needs a small amount of updating for utility's sake, that's it.

What would you want out of the site? Sorting by genre? At least two writers have chimed in, saying that they feel such a system is too restrictive. This automatically consigns such changes to the waste bin.

The primary intent of the site, I feel, is to provide a medium by which writers of Touhou fiction may interact with a reader base (whether in a CYOA or in a straight piece of prose). Separating the fiction, and relevant discussion of such, from the discussions about other Touhou-related matters (new games, translation patches, images of favorite characters, etc.) would greatly improve that function.

"Not everybody bothers to check every board"? Possibly true. But, then, having fewer boards wouldn't give them greater impetus to check in more frequently, it would just give them fewer places to go. The curious readers are the ones we should be supporting, not so much the lazy ones.
The reason to visit a particular board isn't whether or not it's there. The reason is, whether or not writing is being done on that particular board. Particularly, interesting writing.

If the writefags write it, the readers will read it.
No. 599
>>526
We don't need some /vn/ or offtopic board, it would just be a waste, i have seen it on other boards that are slow, not used.

>we're lucky if we can gobble together a hundred users total

Now that is some high goal there, the whole down thing cost us half of our users anyway. you know how people are, they don't like downtimes and such things, move on and forget. Probably only the die hard people are left.
No. 602
>>598
You seem to completely confuse two entirely different issues, one is how we sort stories in different sections, which I find a pointless issue, as you said, the old one has worked quite well. What I DO have a beef with is the /amount/ of boards that we have, which has precious little to do with /how/ the amount of boards we have is organised.

The excessive number of boards we have in the current system encourages people to stick to their own cliques instead of healthily cross-pollinating across the entire site.

And, just in case you haven't noticed, THP hasn't had it's "highs and lows" as you put it, it has had precisely one high, when the /jp/ exodus happened, after that it has been one steady decline. From my perspective this decline is directly caused by the steady loss of traction caused by small lags in update velocity here, some writefag personal problems there... And, if condensing the boards to a more concise whole would help, at least one small bit, to push writefags to update faster, then god damn it we should go for it.
No. 603
>>598

So true, it's just that some boards are slower than others for various reasons (some of list I've listed already)

>>596

I do check every system, and like the >>598
said it's the attitude that folks here have that can scare off some writers.

And I think things will pick up one way or another, since word will slowly spread (like it did to my little corner of the world), and people will be attracted to it. Not to mention HY's actually going to resume writing at long last.

That and the other new blood on the site (such my self) also have role to play in things.

A board's vitality is determined by the stories that came before it. /th/ and /sdm/ are lively due to the classics that were born there. /shrine/ is slow due to the fallout from TS4

and even though Shrine's slow updating it has some nice ongoing stories

What I see in each section:
/th/ New world fool, Gensokyo High mainly
/forest/ Mikospark's story, nobody's story, bits of I youkai and Gensokyo saga.
/eientei/ DoLF R2 and CutMaS mainly
/border/ D.E.A.T.H. and HLA R2 mainly.
/shrine/ ONI, the card game one, DIFT (the one with Arc), the one with the literal trainwreck.
/sdm/ the two fairy stories that are still running.
/youkai/ Echo, FoM, DMC, Gekko's story, the one with Sanae's old classmate.
/others/ ACUTE, Landlord in Miyoga mainly

"Delays are temporary, mediocrity is forever!" a fitting quote from Lunar: SSSC
No. 605
>>602
I don't think it would, and many of the writers (whose opinion I will take above yours, no offense) agree with me.

Also, I certainly don't agree with your viewpoint that THP has been on a "steady decline since the /jp/ exodus". I visited the old site quite frequently, every (relatively) SFW board. What I found was fluctuations in activity based on the writers and their activity (or lack thereof) in producing. Any time a new ep would be written, readers would flock to it. Demand was high, supply was low.
The only visible negative factors contributing to the site were the trolls.

I distinctly recall an overabundance of CYOAs set in miscellaneous locales being stuffed into /others/ because that was the only place they could go. At least three set in Underground. They should have had their own board. I am convinced that more writers would have been likely to produce more material involving the SA cast and setting had there been a section more dedicated to it, rather than being mashed in with various CYOAs that didn't take place in Gensokyo proper.

As for getting more people on the site... changes to the site itself won't do that. No matter what we do to the site, if nobody's coming here to see it, it won't make a lick of difference for them.
Advertising it in places where the users would be open to the idea might do the job better, but that's nothing to do with the organization of the site proper.
No. 606
>At least two writers have chimed in, saying that they feel such a system is too restrictive. This automatically consigns such changes to the waste bin.

Two opposing opinions against a slew of opposition does not "automatically consign such changes to the waste bin." and they are certainly not going to be thrown out just because you say so. Furthermore, I don't think that the fact that these are writers should add more weight to the argument. While we should take our writers into account with these decisions, they by no means should dictate the terms of this debate. They are only a part of the equation here, and part of that equation is making the board accessible to everyone, readers and writers alike.

The readership is pretty much telling us in this thread that we are spread to thin, yet what I'm seeing here is a strong vocal minority crying for more boards and more separation, not realizing that option would spread our already thin user base even further, and refusing to listen when someone tells them that this is a bad idea.

The last thing we need is to segregate ourselves into our own little groups, when what we should be doing is drawing everyone together. One thing I've noticed in my time here at touhouproject is that people will stay in insular groups. I hear "Well, I read stories at /eientei/ but I don't visit /shrine/" and claims just like it for other board readerships all the time. There is a lot of evidence with the readership that this happens, as when you ask most people about a story on a board they will often times respond with "I don't know, I don't read that board."

So, While thinking about this, I asked myself, Why are we trying to say this story belongs here, or that story belongs there? What is the point of such minute seperation?

The answer is the spotlight. The first page. If we consolidated some boards like we need to, Some stories will no longer be on the front page of the board they are on. Please bear with me, I am about to hit you with an extended metaphor for the remainder of this post.

Let us think for a minute as touhouproject as a great big theater complex. Each board is its own stage, and the stories a play that runs on that stage. Right now we have some very active stages, and some not so active ones, some popular plays and some less popular ones.

We have just been given a grant to improve the theater. Lets say for the sake of the metaphor that our benefactor died and left us cash. Now we have options. of course our first instinct is to immediately begin construction of a new stage! But is it really the best idea? Our audience can only sit at one stage at a time, can only watch one play at a time, and while some may be able to watch every play at every stage, for most, its impossible. It is also causing a strain as plays receive less and less viewers over time as the viewers begin to migrate to the largest stage, paying little attention to the smaller ones.

I think what people are forgetting about in the debate over consolidation is that we absolutely have the ability to make the stage bigger, the spotlight brighter, even the seats more comfortable. Just like we increased the character limit on this here board, so can we increase threads shown per page, the number of pages per board, the post limit per thread, The condensation options for large posts. (if you don't know what that means, its the amount of text you would see in a single post if you were scrolling by a thread before it displays "message hidden, click reply to view") and several other options we can tinker with. Also, its not like a change has to be permanent. What we need to do is tinker with the options until we find what works best. While the user base is limited, the board software is absolutely malleable.

What we are suggesting is that we use the grant from our metaphor wisely. We already have stages that are being underused. if we took the plays that ran on them and moved them to a single stage, they would have a larger audience to show to, our audience would not be forced to shuffle around our theater complex to watch plays, The maintenance of the theater would be improved as our janitorial staff would be forced to clean up less theaters, our plays would be better due to having a larger potential audience, but it would still be up to them to keep the audiences attention. It would be a more enjoyable experience for everyone involved.

So while a new stage is definitely a tempting use of our grant, it is probably not the best idea for us, especially as we see our audience heading out the door to parts unknown, maybe to never return.

I understand the excitement for something new, /underground/ has been something that has been a suggestion for a long time, and had we the writers and the readers for such an undertaking, I would be all for it, but you can't tell me that as it is right now the board wouldn't become underused and desolate. Many of the boards we have now are that way.

In my opinion, we would be best served here by combining eientei, forest, and shrine into one, Boarder, Youkai mountain and Underground into another, and SDM, due to the strength of that board and the popularity of its characters, would continue to have its own board but it would also contain the Lake and maybe overlap slightly with forest. These wouldn't be hard and fast rules either. They would be enforced just as much as our current rules regarding this are.

Each of these boards would have 20 threads on the first page and no expiration limit (until space becomes an issue.) They can be broken up again if it proves necessary and we would of course tinker with the options until we find what suits us best.

So, in closing, I hope you have followed along with my arguments and I want to thank you for taking them to serious consideration. More is served by listening to others than it is by immediately rejecting an option just because it does not give you what you want.

tl;dr: Consolidation good, reasons why new boards are not a very good idea at this time, and an extended metaphor in which I try to explain the issue.
No. 609
>>605

adding /underground/ at the very least is widely considered a good idea.

And Someone else notices the messy nature of /others/ and its effects on certain type of stories.

And I do agree on the troll matter and advertising manner, since the latter is how we get new blood.

But we must remember that this site has the absolute bulk of talented touhou fanwriters, so there's decent risk that newbies won't start out so well. That in turn results in a potentially very harsh reaction from the folks here. Only the most persist rework their stories as oppose to giving up in such a scenario.

as far as readers, well do consider some folks like to read and NOT vote for whatever reason.

Not sure if we'd see a story that has 2+ runs or not again, for it's a hard task.

>>606

How do you know that about /underground/? While I may be willing to look through each board, going into more pages on /others/ is something of a messy pain due to how much is crammed in it. Personally I'd rather split into /au/, /others/ or /misc/ and /underground/. /underground/ alone would suffice.

And like I said not all readers bother to vote.

and again consolation would be disastrous, since it'd produce a downward spiral effect on the weakest boards of each unholy consolation due to its stories being buried underneath the more lively ones.

It'd be the same as basically deleting said slow boards.

But what we should do is make slow writers more accountable for why they're taking so long. For example if there's a kind of delay I would tell the readers why ASAP in my power.
No. 610
>>605
>and many of the writers agree with me.
Could I ask you to cite your source?

Also, you and >>603 need to clarify what the hell you mean by ups and downs, because it sounds like you're arguing based off of entirely different interpretations of it.

>overabundance of CYOAs.../others/
And I distinctly recall just three CYOAs for /eientei/. Stories weren't evenly distributed. Besides, wasn't most of the overabundance caused by the faggot writing the twenty fuckbillion Text Adventures in Gensokyo?

>I think that more writers would have written SA stories if it had it's own board.
I think there'd be the same amount, really, and I don't think condensing the site to three general boards would affect what gets written, aside from forcing a slight bit of competition.

>As for getting more people on the site...
I don't think we need more people, to be honest.

>>606
Jesus fuck that metaphor's way longer than it needs to be.
No. 611
>>609
I know that because /others/ has 2 underground stories on it. No offense to Jerl, but that board is mostly Jerl's stories with a few other offerings here and there. That is where the clutter comes from. One of the /underground/ stories on /others/ hasn't been updated in months.

And again, It would absolutely be deleting those boards. That is the point. Shutting down those stages if you will. They cannot support the plays they run so the plays will have to be moved to better serve both the audience and the play itself.

That is the point of consolidation. We are bringing readership and writers together. It would not be a disasterous downward spiral, so long as writers do what they are supposed to be doing and writing. Making updates.
No. 612
>>609
>some folks read and NOT vote
I rarely vote because what I want is usually either A) going to lose in a landslide regardless of what I vote for, or B) going to win in a landslide and voting would decrease the chance of a good write-in winning.

>consolation would produce a downward spiral effect on the weakest boards of each unholy consolation due to its stories being buried underneath the more lively ones.
Are you trying to say 'condensing the site would knock the slower writers off the front page' or am I misinterpreting that?
No. 613
On a more general note, what /do/ you guys mean when you talk about clutter? Difficulty to find one specific story? That a story you're looking for is not on the front page?
No. 614
>>610

-having /underground/ around at least would raise the chances of said stories being read, as opposed to digging through 2-3 pages worth of AU stories.

-none of the other boards seem to be in such a messy state like /others/ and that's due to so many things being crammed into there. But it's not just TAiG, but all the multitude of AU stories that call /others/ home.

Not even /border/ is this much of a mess and it technically has three very closely related sections in it, four if you count Makai (But i think only one story that's still running represents that.

-no good would come from the competition to be on the front page, things would get rushed and quality would drop.

-Interesting point on the people. I for one don't think there's a real lack of writers, just the fact some of them take too long without explaining themselves.

>>611
>>612

on the consoldation matter, yes and if the typical would be writer sees no /shrine/ stories, then he'd assume there's no point in making them. it certainly happens with SA stories in /others/

condensing a slower board to others would ensure that kind of story's extinction. In other worlds no more stories centered around Reimu, Suika, and/or Mima in /shrine/'s case.

And I guess I'll have to repeat myself: Some people have lives and troubles that interfere. But I think they should explain themselves better.

while Jerl's stories may make a nice part of /others/, but last time I checked it was mainly other AU stories being on the front page.
No. 615
>condensing a slower board to others would ensure that kind of story's extinction. In other worlds no more stories centered around Reimu, Suika, and/or Mima in /shrine/'s case.

Why do you think this? You think I'm going to stop my Reimu story just because the sign on the door doesn't say /shrine/ any more? I write what I wanna write, man. The nameplate is just that. A name plate.
No. 616
>>614
>-no good would come from the competition to be on the front page, things would get rushed and quality would drop.
Yes, because updating more than once a week is so rushed that it'd lead to quality drops. Bloody hell, I don't think anything that updates less than twice a day is going to see quality drops anyways.

>-none of the other boards seem to be in such a messy state like /others/
/others/ is messy? That's strange, I've never had problems checking what stories have updated since I last checked. Do you want to know why? BECAUSE THREADS THAT GET POSTED ON, ARE BUMPED. It doesn't matter if a board has 5 stories or 50 stories, as long as the latest, active thread is still on the board it's completely irrelevant which page it's on, if it's been updated, it's probably somewhere pretty high up on the board.
No. 617
>>254

I agree with this. Because it was me.
Add that to the writefags against pointlessly changing the system.
No. 618
>>614
>Interesting point on the people.
>point
>I don't think we need more people
>I think
>point = opinion
>on the consoldation matter, I sure love making baseless assumptions.
>In other worlds

Jesus Christ, just stop.
No. 619
>advertising
>new people

That would be good. I don't know how the userbase of ShrineMaiden.org is, but if they are touhou fans then it's worth to try. Remember kids, we do touhou fanfiction here; we need to bring fans of Touhou and/or fanfiction. I know some 'friends' that read fanfictions, I will call them here.

BUT! There is something everyone needs to control: elitism. If we are to bring new people to the site, we must be a good host and welcome them. We are refugeesĀ² now, we can't keep selecting people as we can in /jp/. Elitism wil only scare more people.
>/border/ D.E.A.T.H. and HLA R2 mainly.

Opinion war time: you sir, are a faggot for not mentioning AoD. Best story on /border/ currently, I'm still trying to catch up with the last 2 threads, but it's awesome.

I'm also very sure that the Shikigami story would be more popular if only Sukima updated the damn story. And that brings a new question: does Sukima know about T-HP?
No. 620
>>619
Shrinemaiden is not that different from gaiaonline or deviantart from what experience I have of them. Please, if we advertise, do it on 4chan or pooshlmer. We don't need any more kids here.
No. 621
>>620
And yes, I'm perfectly aware of the irony of my message.
No. 622
>>620

4chan would just bring unwanted /b/ trolls.
No. 623
>>622
Yes, because this place was not founded by 4chan exiles.
No. 624
I honestly do not care what happens with the board splits.

Or rather, I trust that the userbase of this site isn't stupid enough to decide on something so outlandish that it would kill us. THP will survive if it survives, writers will write when they want to write, readers will read. Things happen. /underground/ is a good idea, /oneshot/ or something like it would be nifty but isn't necessary.

What I want - and I may not be in the majority - is honest, brutal criticism. For everyone. A writer who cannot see what his readers like and dislike about his story, what he's doing objectively well, what he needs to pay more attention to, his good and bad habits, all of it, will not improve nearly as easily or as quickly as one who does.

Anon's elitism is what has kept a relatively high standard on this site, because if you're not good then nobody cares. This is a good step, if a harsh one. While many people can complain (and rightly so) about people being mean or not having any readers, it's far more kind a fate than to be overrun by twelve year olds and their OTPs. You know exactly what I fucking mean.

Another valid point is that the standards will scare off potential or even existing writers, but I've found myself naturally gravitating toward writers who, via IRC, accept, consider, and even ask for criticism, and away from those who shun it or say things like "If you don't like it, don't read it."

The only problem is getting qualified individuals. Anyone can say "This is bad and you should feel bad," but telling someone exactly why it was bad is necessary.

This isn't really a change with the boards themselves, no, but the userbase is an essential part of any site and needs to be considered in all of these arguments.

Also, people can see your votespam. Yelling your opinion still doesn't make it more than an opinion.
No. 625
>several posts about condensing the boards

Sure is samefag in here.
No. 626
>>624
>Or rather, I trust that the userbase of this site isn't stupid enough to decide on something so outlandish that it would kill us.
You have high hopes.
No. 628
>>626
And you have a point, but this discussion is already big enough.
No. 629
File 125164116318.jpg - (14.03KB , 432x324 , bawwww.jpg ) [iqdb]
629
>>619
No. 630
File 125164162666.jpg - (144.38KB , 1644x847 , wut indeed.jpg ) [iqdb]
630
>>629
No. 631
/th/, I am disappoint.
This shit is going nowhere, HY needs to play moot, laugh at our opinions and do whatever he wants to.
No. 632
Since the argument here seems to be focusing around /underground/ (which I would be writing in) and unpopular/slow stories (which I write), I feel compelled to chime in here.

I think the main problem with the discourse here is that there are two different conceptions of what a casual THP reader is like, both of which have arisen due to the fact that nobody who's already found the new URL actually is a casual reader. The first conception has the casual reader dutifully checking every board every day, reading at least the first few posts of every new story, and going to the second page to check for saged updates on their favorite writers' threads, should they fall off the first page. The second has the casual reader finding one or two stories they like, parking themself on those boards, and never venturing into the rest of the site again, only picking up new stories when they happen to see them next to their old favorites.

The truth, I suspect, falls somewhere in between, but I find the second scenario more realistic than the first. The proportion of the two types doesn't matter, though, because changes to the number of boards will only affect the second type. The first type, by definition, will check all the stories anyway. How, then, to increase the number of stories the second type sees/reads? The obvious answer is consolidation; increasing the traffic on whichever board s/he happens to camp on.

Now a practical example, for those who think my theoretical argument creates a false dichotomy (it doesn't, since the reader types are just two opposite ends of a spectrum, but hey, think what you want): my story on /others/ is not a fast story, nor is it a particularly good story. As things stood before the crash, though, I got between 5~15 votes per update, with the majority of those coming within the first 24 hours of updating and a few trickling in later, which has been enough to quell my concerns that I'm a total hack. Let me say that again for emphasis: the way things were does work for me, and I wouldn't see a site reboot with no changes as a failure at all. As long as we're thinking about changes, though, let's consider the possible effect of each plan on my story:

* Leaving things the way they were would have no effect on my core readerbase (the 5 people who read and vote on every update) or my peripheral readerbase (the 0~10 people who come to others for Landlord or Jerl's stories, but vote on mine when something compels them to).

* Consolidation would have no effect on my core readerbase, but changes my peripheral readerbase to the readers of whoever I happen to be grouped with. The odds of this increasing the size of said peripheral readerbase by grouping me with, say, Gensokyo High are quite favorable.

* Forming /underground/ would have no effect on my core readerbase (seeing a pattern here?), but changes my peripheral readerbase to... uh... anyone? Two stories, maybe three, counting myself? As much fun as having my own fiefdom would be, I can't imagine this change resulting in an increase in readership for me.

The problem, of course, then becomes which boards to consolidate, and here my specific example falls apart, since in the absence of /underground/, /others/ is where my story belongs and should remain unconsolidated as a catch-all. Mergers like /eientei/ and /forest/, however, have the potential to increase the readership of stories on both boards.

Lastly, regardless of what decision is made, I hope it doesn't become permanent. We have a lot of latitude to change things here, not only because of the new management, but because, as I already said, none of the readers left after the site change are of the 'casual' variety. We could go through a new board layout every week for the next month (in fact, that's not a horrible idea) without chasing anyone off. In my view of it, this is a chance to experiment with things; even if we do end up returning to the old layout, there's no harm in taking a few detours along the way.

>/oneshot/
And include this. It's an excellent idea.
No. 633
>>613

Clutter as in so many types of stories that are moving about.

And if you have to go beyond page 2 to find an ongoing story then something's amiss.

take /others/ for example, if one wanted to find an SA/Underground story, asides from teh most recent story will require digging through at least 4 pages of AU's and Jerl creations to find it. And few people care to go to page two outside of archiving reasons as it is.
No. 634
Guess it's about time I chipped in a little and I'll use glasnost's post
>>632
as a springboard to say what I think about splitting/condensing the boards. I essentially have two problems here. One is with how readers work, the other is with how writefags works.

>>* Consolidation would have no effect on my core reader-base, but changes my peripheral reader-base to the readers of whoever I happen to be grouped with. The odds of this increasing the size of said peripheral reader-base by grouping me with, say, Gensokyo High are quite favourable.

I don't think this is true. Take a look at the way the old /others/ worked. What you had there was a lot of very different stories all crammed in the same space together. Suddenly we throw together a whole load of stories that have no relation to each other and I think we'll see the same effect again. That is, people visiting that board only to check the story they read, then leaving again. A large part of the benefit of the old system was that most of the boards only had 3-4 active stories currently updating. Somebody who, for example, likes Patchwork's writing might read HLA, but also scroll down after reading an update and see AoD there, taking some time to poke around and maybe get interested in it.

Now imagine the same setup with a board with say, 10 active stories on it. A reader is much more likely to think something along the lines of 'Oh wow, that's a lot of stories, I think I'll come back later/just read this one/eh it's fanfiction who cares'. This used to happen a lot on /th/, the number of threads that IPF generated brought a lot of readers along, but not that many of them actually scrolled down to read, for example, Mode's story.

The other way is somebody who, for example, is interested in the Underground characters and would go over to /underground/ out of curiosity. Maybe somebody who already reads a story there will get curious about how other writefags have done the same cast. This kind of thing is a lot, lot harder to do if we start mashing up all the stories together into larger boards.

My second problem with condensing is to do with writefags and motivation. Say a writefag wants to start a new story, or has an idea. On the current system of boards, there's lots of space to go do that. Now this isn't a matter of actual physical space or bandwidth or disk usage, but about how a new writefag is going to perceive the boards. Say writefag A wants to start a story centred on Reimu. He goes to /shrine/ and sees 2, maybe 3 active stories. From his perspective there's plenty of space there for one more, and plenty of readers in the wings who read the other stories and might just happen to take an interest in his.

Now imagine writefag A goes to, for example, /general fiction board number 3/, and sees 10 active stories, including stuff by famouswritefags B, C and D. The board moves a lot faster, and the faster a story updates/gets votes, the more it will be on the front page. This means new stories, or stories that have a bad start, or update slowly will get pushed down very quickly by those by old writefags and by those who write very fast. They'll get less attention, because the reader-base is less likely to pick that one story out of a massive list, or go to the second or third page, whereas if that story about Reimu was on a sub-board full of other stories about Reimu and other shrine denizens, casual readers are more like to take a peek out of curiosity.

To summarise: I think readers are more likely to read, and writefags more likely to write, if we keep some kind of sub-group based boundaries between the boards.

Ah, but but but HY what are you doing!? Yes, I can hear some of you crying this out already, that we're got a smaller userbase and getting people to go look at other boards is hard. Yes, this is a problem, but I think condensing the boards is like trying to use a mallet to fix a broken watch. We've suddenly been given the power to change the entire board layout and we're itching to use it, but I think we're missing a more obvious and less intrusive solution.

We need more cross-board discussion and notification of what is going on. Very few people read /eientei/ because of it's reputation back at the start of the CYOAs, but there are really some very, very good stories there now which deserve more attention and readers, because they're interesting and written really well. But nobody even knows about them outside of the few /eientei/ regulars. I think this is mostly down to the fact that there is no way of quickly taking a look at what is being written where without actually going and reading it yourself.

So, rather than condensing the boards. I propose a completely different measure. We need something, maybe on the front page, maybe linked in the header of every board with big flashing lights and a 'FUCK YOU MORONS GO READ THIS FIRST' on it. Something that lists active stories on every board, along with a little blurb describing what they're about. We don't need massive reviews, or people's opinions. Just a little one or two line thing, letting people know that there is, for example, a story on /eientei/ in which the reader plays as Reisen in space and is full of bizarre political intrigue.

Forcing Anonymous to read more of the stories via jamming them all on the same board will only hamper creativity and ease of reading. Letting them know quite explicitly that 'This story is over there, it's pretty good' is just implementing the age old technique of word-of-mouth and recommendations, which is what has been totally lacking on this site outside of people who go to IRC.

So. What do you think?
No. 635
I think I like the idea, but how exactly will it work? This hypothetical 'something', that is. Will it be some sort of form to fill out for the authors themselves to advertise their stories? Or will some specific person be given the job of glancing over the boards and putting up these blurbs based on which threads they find to be active?

I'll say again that I like the idea though.
No. 636
>>615

I figured that but the thing is, the would be newbie writer might not think that. Especially if there's no shrine group-focused stories around.

>>619

Oh yeah I forgot about that story as well. I do read that as well.

But it's funny how you speak of the evils of elitism then proceed to call me a faggot.

>>632
I don't think anyone really checks the 2nd page of anything short of looking up old stories.

But I do think readers follow their favorite authors, so some of the readers of your underground story also read your sdm story and vica versa.

And the main problem is what happens to the slowest boards (/shrine/) in the consoldation process. Eientei and Forest are about equal, with forest being livlier, so not much would get harmed.

But I do respectfully disagree on the matter of the /underground/ section failing to boost your readership. Every section has to start somewhere.

But I want to see what HY thinks of the whole matter, since he hasn't really chimed in on the condesning matter.
No. 637
>>634
sounds good in Theory, but in actual work....
If people are interested in Stories, they will find and read them, always. If they aren't, they will just not bother even if you point it out with arrows and guides.
No. 638
>>634

Ah while I may not really actively read into AoD yet (I might in the future), but I do peek at it when I go surfing /border/ same with I, youkai and other stories.

We need an updated synopsis sheet, and I'd gladly fill out a form about my story.

And I haven't even thought about some of those other angles in terms of 'anti-condensing'
No. 639
Wow, whoever compared this to the health care debate earlier was dead on. You've got one side sticking their head in the sand refusing to acknowledge that there's a problem with the system, and the other calling for government/administrative intervention. And now President HY comes out with some lukewarm compromise that won't solve a damn thing.
No. 640
I liked the old style and would like to see it return, however I am also easy to please.

So take it easy~
No. 642
>>639
I think the side calling for massive intervention and changes are simply failing to understand why these boards have worked so well in the past. There's so much unfettered creativity on here simply because of the lack of coherent structure, the lack of categorisation and the ability to go carve out your own little niche. Shrinking the boards and forcing everyone into a smaller space will honestly hurt the writing and creation of new stories.
No. 643
>>639
Shit, does that mean I'm the Democrats? Ignore everything I just posted. (Not that I want to be a Republican either, mind you. Ron Paul, represent.)

Seriously, though, I hadn't considered the discouraging effect on new writers that consolidation would have, and that alone is nearly enough to disqualify it for me. The question remains, however, how to direct traffic through the unpopular/slow boards, and I am increasingly becoming convinced that a solution may not exist. Something like HY's proposal, with stickies or something in each board with story summaries, will help to an extent; hell, I tried to start reading Teruyo's story once, and the main reason I gave up was that reading its early archives is an exercise in masochism. (Hot-gluing? I'm so glad we left /jp/.) I don't think it's enough, though, and I'm at a loss as to what else could be done.

Incidentally, how's progress on our actual ability to restore the site? Do we have the backup yet, or are we still waiting?
No. 644
>>642
There need not necessarily be more structure or stricter categorisation even if the boards are condensed. That is an entirely different matter.
No. 645
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645
>>642
No. 646
>Incidentally, how's progress on our actual ability to restore the site? Do we have the backup yet, or are we still waiting?

Because we are talking politics, what is going on President?
No. 648
>>632
>We could go through a every week for the next month (in fact, that's not a horrible idea)
That is a horrible idea because of the fact that merging and splitting boards will change all post numbers and break every >>post link in the moved threads. This isn't nearly as easy as people are making it out to be.

Even beside that, having stories jump from board to board will just cause confusion and make them harder to follow. How many shows have been cancelled because they moved the time slot and the ratings dropped? How are we going to deal with writers complaining that their stories were moved to more popular (overcrowded) or less popular (lower participation) boards? If we start screwing around with active stories on established boards like this, it's going to be a fucking nightmare for everyone and we'll lose a lot of writers and readers over the drama and confusion.

>>639
How does a single list of active stories with summaries not solve the problem of readers not checking out all the stories on all the boards? Or is there some other problem we can only solve by changing the board structure?

>>646
Holy said yesterday that he's finally uploading the files. I don't know what the fuck is taking so long.
No. 649
>>648

The data is a few gigs big and Holy lives in the middle of nowhere with shit internet like HY. You'll just have to keep waiting.
No. 650
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650
Some boards cover the characters in an area (/forest/) and some boards cover all the characters from a game (/sdm/). This division leaves some characters kind of floating around because they're covered by a game, but are physically situated away from the focus of the game. Yuka, Keine, and Mokou come to mind, let alone the characters that were created since the site was made. How long can the board headers be? You know, the 'FEAR MY MASSIVE CHARACTER LIMIT!' thing? It'd be nice if every board had a little blurb about what's covered, particularly what characters and/or games.

Definitely like the idea of a /oneshot/ and /underground/ too.
No. 654
>>650
True, but that hasn't kept people from writing stories that focus on those characters. If you're worried about someone thinking "I really want to read a Yuuka story" and not being able to find one, the list of story summaries should take care of that.

As far as /oneshot/, this board seems perfect for stories like that and general Touhou discussion, since that's pretty much what we have here already.
No. 668
>>643

yeah DoFL R1 had its flaws including a particularly retarded anon voting. That little aspect was removed from the main character in R2

>>650
Mokou's often lumped in with Eientei (Keine as well)

But team 9 and Yuuka are kinda outside of the normal areas.

Again I'd like to state my desire for /others/ to be split into an AU board and one for things that are outside the other sections, (Such as Yuuka), but that can really wait (seeing for one writing Yuuka as a major character isn't an easy task)
No. 689
>>668
>split into an AU board and one for things that are outside the other sections
/th/ has a lot of AU stories, maybe even more than /others/. Are you suggesting we move all those threads off the main board onto a side one? And where do you draw the line, are dystopian futures and alternate histories AU? I really don't think people would be able to agree on this.
No. 691
>>668
Team 9 and Yuka fit firmly in forest. It would be stupid just to make a /sunflower/ just for Yuka stories, (because there have been just so many of those) and the 9 squad has some overlap with /sdm/ do to their connection with the lake, but they logically have a home.

Really, there's nothing wrong with our current system, everyone has a logical home under it. I'd have even suggested that /underground/ stories have been posted with /youkai/ seeing as they have connections with Kanako and the shrine.

The only problem we face now is that boards are underused and any new boards would just die a slow lingering death. But this has been discussed ad nauseum and I've already given that argument my best shot.
No. 694
>>691
I read the "underused" boards and they still seem to get plenty of votes, at least in the stories people like more. I don't know what "death" you all keep talking about. The overall site activity has stayed around the same level since last summer. Your favorite story didn't slow down or stop because the boards were structured wrong, it happened because the author wasn't writing it. Meanwhile, new stories keep popping up and some of them take root and get the same popularity that older stories had.

What exactly is the problem we're trying to solve here?
No. 697
>>694
THIS
No. 699
>What exactly is the problem we're trying to solve here?

Killing time until the site is finally restored.
No. 714
>>699
This, basically.

I've got THREE updates sitting around collecting dust, man. I had to write something.
No. 717
I just like picking fights on the internet.
No. 729
Oh wow. Maybe I really should have come back in a month. But I might as well throw in a couple of cents worth.

Why not just create a section for "archive" boards for anything and everything from the old site? Retain the board names and variables so post references are maintained. This will allow easy rollback or reactivation of boards if needed. However, remove the ability to create new posts in those sections.

Then start out with 3-5 new boards with arbitrary names. Active writers can continue their stories while easily referencing anything in the "old structure" if they need to. Inactive stories would naturally vanish on their own.

Add a non-writing board for site discussion and agree on a structure as more readers and/or writers come in. A motion to replicate /sdm/ as it was in the old site? Let's vote on it. A motion for a new board named /underground/? Let's vote on it. A motion for the removal of a board named /shrine/? Let's vote on it.

This would allow room for more productive discussion moving forward. The main problem I see right now is that we are trying to decide on major site changes while we are still in transition. There is no way we can find out if any of these ideas will work unless we actually test them .

Of course, this only works out for the users of this site, both current and future, as it actually lets them discover the type of growth that they really want. Those who are already satisfied have little motive to rock the boat.

But in the end, it's up to new owners and mods if they are willing to step into something new.
No. 736
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736
<<this thread. Lets just stop. nothing is being gained here.
No. 737
>>636
>But it's funny how you speak of the evils of elitism then proceed to call me a faggot.

The faggot part was actually meant to be like a playful jab on the arm. But I guess that's impossible on the internet.
No. 738
>A motion for the removal of a board named /shrine/?

Son...I am disapoint
No. 741
>>738
> quoting part of post without context to troll
Still haven't heard why >>729 isn't a decent compromise.
No. 742
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742
>>738
No. 743
>>736

Yeah this has ceased to be useful and is just a shitstorm.
No. 744
I believe that the boards we had before are still the perfect separation, and there really aren't all that many to begin with. If it works, why fuck with it?
No. 745
>>744
To make it better, maybe?
No. 746
>>745
There's nothing to make better.
No. 747
>>746
Such a sad way of thinking...
No. 748
>>747
Such an inane statement...
No. 750
>>747
Not if he's right it isn't. I still haven't heard a good explanation for why boards with active and new stories are being called "dead" just because other boards have more stories, or why rebalancing the board activity NOW will prevent the boards from becoming unbalanced again LATER. And we definitely aren't going to start shuffling stories around every couple months trying to achieve some kind of organizational perfection, nobody wants to deal with trying to follow that, it's like moving a TV show to different time slots until the ratings plummet and they cancel it.
No. 751
If you think that's bad HY wants us to have a /b/.

But his definition of /b/ is this board. Yeah I know, he hasn't got a clue.
No. 752
Republicans, all of you!

Screw you guys, I'm going home.
No. 753
>>752
Ah, chill out. If you're an American leftist you be used to having your hopes dashed and opinions discarded by now.
No. 754
>>751
7/10
No. 756
>>754

Hey HY.
No. 757
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757
Girls are now invading. Please watch warmly.
No. 758
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758
THP needs Ads.
No. 761
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No. 762
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No. 763
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No. 764
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764
This thread needs cheering up. Have some Sanae.
No. 765
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No. 766
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No. 769
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769
No. 770
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770
Tiny tiny.
No. 771
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No. 772
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No. 773
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No. 774
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No. 775
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Satori approves of this hijack.
No. 776
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No. 780
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No. 782
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I-I t-think we're in auto-sage. N-not that I w-want you to stop or a-anything.
No. 783
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No. 784
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No. 785
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No. 786
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No. 787
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No. 788
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No. 789
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Take it easy. All of you.
No. 1022
Autosage is still the same?
No. 1023
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1023
>>1022
That would be a 'no' then. May I suggest we keep posting Touhou hijack?
No. 1025
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>>1023

Far too lazy right now, sorry.
No. 1028
I'm just a little surprised that this board gained over a thousand posts in a matter of about 3 days.
No. 1054
Hey, speaking of adding more boards reminded me...

With the coming of UFO, I think we finally have justification for making a /village/ board for the human village. The only characters that would have showed up there before were Akyu and Keine, but several of the win quotes for Versus and Arcade Mode in UNL make mention of the fact that after UFO, Byakuren had a Buddhist temple constructed in the human village. It seems logical that most of the other UFO characters would be staying with her given their love for her.
No. 1061
>>1054
That's not a bad idea, but I think we should keep it on the back-burner for the moment. Stories regarding the Human Village and crew should go in /gensokyo/ for now.
If there ends up being demand for that, then I'll go with it.
No. 1165
>>1054
>>1061
Akyu, Keine, Renko and Maribel have so far been considered universal characters. I, too, believe we need to make a board for them.

I think it would be nice to include every area of Gensokyo in each of the resulting boards. I guess this is more of a suggestion to the writers than to the site; I feel the older characters are forgotten far too often, and that might be because we really don't know where to put them, just don't want to put them where they belong, or are too afraid to even try. I love HY's Rika, and I enjoy the way a few doujins have portrayed the Watatsuki sisters and Reisen(the second one). I'm sure there is plenty of potential to be unlocked from all of Gensokyo's inhabitants.

Perhaps a new /border/, something along the lines of combining Eientei, the Human Village, the Outside, and Mayohiga. A /sky/ For the Palanquin Ship and the Moon. Finally, a /lake/ for the SDM, and the Lake of Blood.

I liked the ideas for /shrine/ housing both Hakurei and Moriya, and /afterlife/ containing anything related to it. You could even put in all of the other, minor shrines in with /shrine/.

Just my thoughts.
No. 1169
>>1165

Sorry to say, but just about everyone (writers, mods, admins, people in this thread and a number of IRC regulars) dislikes the idea of condensing the boards/combining the boards. Not to mention the idea of expanding the boards, like breaking up /border/.
No. 1174
>>1165

We don't need a /sky/, Byakuren and her apostles established a temple near the village. If anything, /shrine/ should become /shrines/ to deal with Hakurei, Moriya and the Buddhist temple.
No. 1178
>>1174
Moriya is already covered by /youkai/ since they're much more likely to encounter and interact with other Youkai Mountain characters rather than those at the other Shrines.
No. 1193
>>1169
And I am also one of them. From what I've read so far, that seems to be completely backwards. Like I said, those were just my thoughts on the matter; if it's going to be done, might as well throw in my suggestion. If you believe it will stay the same, please disregard the post.

However, I still feel the same about the lack of other characters/locations in the boards. I'm sure I'm just going to be told to be a writer myself if I don't like it, and I've strongly considered it for that reason alone. It wouldn't hurt to try, and that goes for everybody, not just me.

>>1174
I really dislike the fact that you dismiss the Palanquin's existence just because they built a temple. Expand your horizons beyond the ground; use your imagination. It's a flying ship that can reach Makai - do you know just how many possibilities for good stories you're tossing away because you wish to keep things simple and confined? A lot.

>>1178
And Hakurei encounters all of Gensokyo's denizens. When dealing with either of the shrines in which the reader base has chosen one of its occupants as the target of the story, you tend to stay inside most of the time, and when you do go out, you're probably more likely to meet someone that's not part of the general area or cross over to a different region of Gensokyo altogether.

So I fail to see your reasoning. It's pretty much a given that you may or may not interact with other characters from the area or outside it - if you do at all.
No. 1195
>>1193
>do you know just how many possibilities for good stories you're tossing away
What the hell are you talking about? If there's no way to even loosely tie a story to one board, it goes on /th/ or /others/. We're going to have /underground/ cover Makai anyway so the UFO stuff can go in there, or maybe in /shrine/ if people want to include Byakuren's temple with that.
No. 1205
Eh...all this talk about /underground/ and /UFO/ remind me I need to at least beat stage 4 of UFO.

Fucking rage cloud, punching the shit out of me and taking all the lives I need for stage 4.
No. 1217
>>1195
What I'm saying is, the ship is not only the original location of the UFO cast, but it is also an important part of the history for that cast, and the location in which the entire game was built around. EZMode here chooses to ignore it completely and focus all future attention towards the temple. He's confined himself to another shrine, and thus confined himself from bringing ideas and inspiration to new heights. He's limited his imagination, which in turn puts limitations on the world.

The fact the ship can go to Makai is just one of its great elements; it has nothing to do with Makai itself. It tells you that it is a powerful tool, an important artifact, yet it seems to be disregarded as such.

>We're going to have /underground/ cover Makai anyway so the UFO stuff can go in there
Yeah, just throw it wherever you please. Real nice. I'm all for the /Sky&Ground/ idea, but it seems rather obvious you don't care much at all.
No. 1225
>>1217
Chill, man. I can assure you that having UFO characters in /underground/ won't stop anyone with an idea from writing a story in which the palanquin plays a major role. The board divisions are meant to control character usage, not location usage, and they aren't really that effective at either (which is a good thing). Besides, a story focusing on the palanquin is probably going to involve cruising around from place to place meeting lots of people, which makes it a /th/ story anyway.

Personally, I'd put UFO characters in /temple/ and allow that to cover the temple and the palanquin, leaving Makai to go to /underground/ (where, honestly, I can't imagine the post-game UFO cast hanging out now that Byakuren's unsealed).

>>1205
EE MAJI?
Seriously, though, is it just me or does UFO have the easiest Normal mode of any of the Windows games (with the possible exception of IN)? Marisa A can bomb through just about every spell card in the game, and by the time I hit Murasa I've normally got all 8 lives and a few extra bombs, which means around 20 bombs to get through the last 3 stages. (Granted, I usually end up using a majority of those against Shou and CURVY LASERS, but still.)
No. 1233
>>1217

The underground is closely linked to Makai, what isn't there to get about that grouping? Goddamn.
No. 1252
>>1233
Ugh. Once again...

>it has nothing to do with Makai itself

It's a fucking space ship multi-craft that can travel straight into hell. Like dimension travel. What other kind of vessel do you think could even survive a trip like that? Not to mention, again, the fact that UFO is based around that ship, and is basically named after it.
No. 1260
>>1252
>the fact that UFO is based around that ship, and is basically named after it.
Actually, it's named after something Nue did.
And you're still not contradicting the "palanquin cruising = /th/" point.
No. 1267
>>1260
No one ever said that the ship actually had to stop somewhere. No one said you had to run into any other characters, either. Whether you did one or the other or both, so long as you get back on the ship or shoo that person away within a certain number of posts, all is well. Crossovers can happen in any board, not just /th/.

The ship is a location in itself. You stay on board the ship, you stay inside the location.
No. 1291
>>1193

>I really dislike the fact that you dismiss the Palanquin's existence just because they built a temple. Expand your horizons beyond the ground; use your imagination. It's a flying ship that can reach Makai - do you know just how many possibilities for good stories you're tossing away because you wish to keep things simple and confined? A lot.

What can take place in the sky? Danmaku and UFO. Unless you toss in the idea of passing into the heavens, it's still just sky, and maybe a magic boat. Is it even still in the sky flying around after the story? I don't know. I do know that there is a brand new temple in town, and at least 5/7 of the new cast are going to be there, Kogasa and Nue being the two that aren't directly connected to the overall story. I don't see what's so special about the Palanquin. A flying ship that can reach Makai, okay. There's a cave for that too, you know. I bet there's a lot of ways into and out of various areas of Gensokyo that we don't know because ZUN hasn't gotten drunk enough to start writing the next game yet.

>>1217

>What I'm saying is, the ship is not only the original location of the UFO cast, but it is also an important part of the history for that cast, and the location in which the entire game was built around. EZMode here chooses to ignore it completely and focus all future attention towards the temple. He's confined himself to another shrine, and thus confined himself from bringing ideas and inspiration to new heights. He's limited his imagination, which in turn puts limitations on the world.

Most of the time, if a story is going to involve the cast of a game, it's going to be set after the events. Since after the events of the game, a temple is established, that's where I'd think most people would place them. You want to claim that I'm limiting my perspective and closing off ideas, but having them all stay on a flying ship in the sky is even worse off. What business would anyone but one of the playable characters for UFO have to even go to the ship? Would Sakuya have a reason to go there? Meiling? What about Hina, or Keine? Mokou? Sure, you could come up with an excuse for them to go there. 'I was curious', 'I heard there was treasure', 'It's a flying ship!' so on and so forth.

But what if they were on the ground, near the village? At, say, a temple? A buddhist temple in fact. That sounds like an entirely different scenario all of a sudden! Hina and Suwako could drop by to pay their respects to the new religion, and the village itself would likely be curious. Keine would hold a special class on the history of Buddhism with Shou and Byakuren as guest speakers. Tewi trails Reisen to the village when she goes to sell medicine, and ends up spending her time treasure hunting with Nazrin. Gee, all that sure sounds like interesting ideas. Too bad they would never happen if they were all cooped away on a flying boat in the sky.

>The fact the ship can go to Makai is just one of its great elements; it has nothing to do with Makai itself. It tells you that it is a powerful tool, an important artifact, yet it seems to be disregarded as such.

All of the items of Kaguya's Impossible Requests are important artifacts as well. I'm pretty sure there's a lot more powerful artifacts in Gensokyo as well. Should all of these get the same treatment and respect? Unless it's been retconned, Makai is a physical location in Gensokyo, so I don't know what dimension hopping ship you're talking about. If that's the case though, Yumemi's already got that covered with her Probability Space Hypervessel, which successfully traveled into Gensokyo from an outside dimension possibly other than the actual outside world of Maribel and Renko. How much of an impact did that dimension traveling ship have on the rest of the series?

If a magical flying ship has the bearing to head to a physical location in the world, if it gets there via magic to allow it to pass into Makai without crashing through the ground, is it still really that fantastic and powerful, or is it someone else's magic that makes it that way?
No. 1357
>>1291
>There's a cave for that too, you know.
Palanquin airline services. Takes you safely to hell so you don't have to run into any danger along the way.

>Too bad they would never happen if they were all cooped away on a flying boat in the sky.
The ship doesn't have to be flying 24/7. It'll dock sometime; people will still be curious. Keine can teach her class about transportation and how a ship works. The goddesses can still pay their respects. Better yet, get into a fight for establishing yet another new religion in the area - a fight that involves the ship. Cannons? Sure thing. Eientei cast needs to fly to the moon due to sudden diplomatic relations, or maybe they want to study that lost technology from the ship to further enhance medical science. Moukou trails after them. Any character can visit them whether they're in the sky or on the ground.

Again, the ship is a location. As long as you're on the ship, you're in the location.

>Should all of these get the same treatment and respect?
Yes. I'm sure there are thousands, but we're only limited by what ZUN has given us any information on. When you only focus on certain details, you forget to focus on the entire picture. Would any game, book or show be as great as it is without the little things?

Would Popeye have ever been popular if you removed the spinach? The rest of the characters? His hat? His pipe?

>Makai is a physical location in Gensokyo
There's a border between Makai and the rest of Gensokyo. Just like there was with Hakugyokurou. Same with Higan. Sure, there are ways to pass through, just not quite as easily for everyone else.

>Probability Space Hypervessel
The ship was built from parts of that. It would probably be safe to assume it has those powers, or at least a small amount.

>How much of an impact did that dimension traveling ship have on the rest of the series?
Helped the Kappa and helped create a part of the ship which lead to UFO.

>is it still really that fantastic and powerful, or is it someone else's magic that makes it that way?
That question doesn't really make sense. It ties in with the story. The ship isn't 100% Byakuren's power. Regardless, I'm sure you could say it is no more important than anything else she creates. It has history, though.

But the same could be asked of every object, character and location. Is Touhou really that great, or is it the hard work of ZUN and the imagination of the fans? Would any religion be all that important without the tales and myths handed down throughout the years? Are you really a good writer, or do people just think that because you got lucky and caught their attention?



You know, I never said that the temple couldn't be a location, it's just that you're confining the characters to the ground like the rest of them. Of the seven characters, four were part of the ship, two had nothing to do with it at all, and one was in Makai - she created the ship. The ship is where it started, and where most of it happened. A large part of the history of the characters revolves around that ship. How can you say it's not important at all?

There's not enough information on UFO, really. I don't think anyone ever figured out the temples name yet. I'm not even sure Murasa can survive off of the ship.