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2731 No. 2731
My friends,

i come to you this very day to ask of you. How are you feeling this day? How are you feeling this day regarding this site? Is there anything that bothers you, that makes you anger? That makes you happy? Is there anything you would like to mention? Is there anything you would like to say. Let us come together to converse, create and do what needs to be done. We all are here united in our need, our boredom, our love and hate, so why not share it.

I just wish to take a moment to talk about writers. Writers are special people. They need our attention, our appreciation which we put into words that we paste and copy and put an x before, which we call votes. In those words we put our feelings, which scream write more! more, write forever more! write until i lose interest, write until you burn out! write until i am satisfied! forever and ever be my slave! That and nothing else is what it is to be a reader. Readers are leech, they want more and more until there is nothing anymore. But, can we really be mad at them? No. Because they do what is in their nature. The Writer creates and the Leecher sucks him dry of all the creativity. Some are not up for the job, quit or go insane (HY, that guy that tried to ban YAF and was talking about puppets) or become a nervous wreck due to popullarity. Yes, clearly not every writer is up for the job. It is a monumental job, the footsteps are big and hard to step in. What do you need in order to become a popullar writer then? The love of the masses, the fetishes that they adore, massive love for touhous and an ego so big that you think the site revolves around you.

But before that let us take a look at the bond between writers and readers. What is that bond? The bond between writere and voter/reader is a special one. If he delivers, you should deliver as well. If he does and you not, you failed. You failed to accept his blood, sweat and feelings he put into his writing about magical girls. Sole votes without comments are fueling the writers paranoia, because every writer has a sanity gauge that falls quickly if there is not enough input. But i am not here to point fingers at inactive, shitty, stupid or boring writers. That would be a tale for another time.

I mainly wish to form a platform for discussion to make this site a better place. Always watching and improving the site so that we can enjoy it more. Together. Even if you are a lurker, it is never too late to make your voice heard.

At least i want to say: Thank you for all your hard work. Writers and readers alike.

No. 2732
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2732
Lotta words in that post. The entire second paragraph can fuck off.
No. 2735
>>2731

Hello, Random_Anon
No. 2737
>Thank you for all your hard work. Writers and readers alike.

Reading can hardly be considered as a job.

>Even if you are a lurker, it is never too late to make your voice heard.
http://www.touhou-project.com/th/res/123033.html#134899 prove it's right. But sometimes it's better to just shut up.

Saged because I suspect OP to be on drugs.
No. 2738
>>2737
>Reading can hardly be considered as a job.
In some cases it's certainly a chore. I'm not good at dropping stories.
No. 2739
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2739
I won't lie, I'm in it mainly for the Mokoutits, but I can and do appreciate a compliment. I can live for a week off of a good compliment. Compliments are nice. They make me warm and fuzzy inside. They really do.

Thankies~
No. 2741
>>2739
Hey YAF, are you the one drawing the Yu Kut thingy? Because I liked those drawings.
No. 2742
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2742
>>2735
No. I was always here, since the site got created and since moot made /jp/. And i will be here until the site closes down.

>>2737
No really. I love you guys.

And reading is a job. It is as important as writing, probably even more. Some stories drag on and on, nothing happens, the writer decides to just turn the story into shit and so on. And god knows this site certainly needs as many awesome voters are writers. Just imagine a writer writing his updates and only gets lemming votes.

>>2739
Good that you enjoy yourself YAF. You always are. This man mended his ways and came back to us brining stories with him.

It recently got quiet, so why not use the time to do something productive instead of just kicking people out. We can always do that later, for now let us just enjoy the site and wait until the crap writer gauge is full once again and the place is in need of a clean up.
It seems i was misunderstood so i will use fewer words this time: Use this thread to talk about whatever you want that involves the site, that you want to see improved, want to see, want to tell writers or your readers etc etc.
No. 2743
>>2742
As a writer, I would like to ask to my reader(s): think more.
I'm not a very good writer myself, but I'm trying hard. And it makes me sad to notice that nobody is paying attention to something I'm hiding in my text.
Writing is hard and difficult, and almost every word in my updates is calculated. There's a reason why I said "shocked" instead of "surprised". There's a reason why the character can't pronounce this word or this word.

Saged because it's a selfish wish.
No. 2744
This is just what blue needs. Yet another thread for people to bitch in.
No. 2746
>>2744
What this place needs is to return to its roots and- oh wait.
No. 2747
I will start cataloging shitty write ins. Please wait warmly.
No. 2748
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2748
>>2741
Sadly, no. It's from Monster Hunter, and it's kind of symbolic, so there's a lot of fanart of it out there.
Also, it's YIAN, you ! YIAN Kut-Ku! NOW GET IT RIGHT!

>>2744
You know what this place needs? Blue Kut-Kus. Caw yeah.

>>2743
Sorry mate, but I'll burst your bubble.

“Hidden” meanings are exactly that – hidden; they only seem obvious in your eyes because you are their author – you thought them up, you came up with the bloody things. Don't assume that your readers are on the same train of thought as you, because that is highly unlikely, and remember – there is only one source of knowledge regarding your story that they can derive from, and that is—whoop dee doo—the story itself. So, if something hasn't been explained yet—or at least foreshadowed—you must NOT assume that your readers will find it in any way important. It's just how it is. Don't expect your readers to take your every sentence apart and thoroughly sieve it for something that might or not matter in the long run – unless you have a reputation for doing that sort of thing, it just will not happen (which is good in my humble opinion, because personally I think it is sort of offensive, not to mention outright silly in some cases).

If you want to set up a Chekhov's Gun, make sure to point it out several times. Since a detail mentioned once is just a part of decoration (descriptions), but if you mention it twice, it might just catch the attention of a quicker-minded reader. Tell of it thrice, and you will have successfully manufactured a proper (although very simple) Chekhov firearm (which may or may not be noticed still, which is why you NEVER, EVER assume that it has been, until specifically commented on by the readers). There are better methods, of course, but that is a talk for a different time. Different place, too, probably.

Cheers.
No. 2751
>>2731

Sup Teruyo.

I noticed that you pointed out a lot of writers have a head that rivals the size of John C. Holmes' penis, but I must say that this certainly is not true. No, rather, only about half of our writerbase truly consists of that, the rest being made up of sickly sociopaths that have ill self-esteem and could not possibly muster the least bit of self respect. This defines a rather large flaw in your point, provided that there is one, and sort amplified the entire problem between writer and reader where the writer becomes increasingly unaware the less votes and discussion he or she receives.

tl;dr: Not everyone's an egotistical retard. Only YAF.
No. 2752
>>2751
Sup you.

I didn't create this thread. Nor do I care to put forward my opinion regarding much of its content.

Sure is nice that I'm dear enough to your heart that you thought of me though. This is a bit surprising however, I thought you preferred not talking about things, instead sequestering yourself in your own little corner. Don't make me think you've got double standards now... that'd be a shame. I'm almost certainly mistaken, I'm sure.
No. 2753
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2753
>>2751
Now then, now then. Don't be sour.

Here, have a mini-me!
No. 2755
>>2751
>Sup Teruyo.
Shit, i laughed. And laughed. Teruyo sure is loved around here. comes right after Kiras despair. Or probably before.

Writers are just as fucked up as the rest, probably more because they want that attention and stuff. Why would a sane person write fanfics about magical girls that some japanese guy created out of some drunken frenzy in his own 4 walls. But on the other hand there are we, the readers, who demand more of it and get angry and depressed because some guy does not write it in his free time. If you think about it, this is pretty crazy.
But let me tell you this: Touhou fanfic is serious business man. It is fucking war. Enjoyment? Having fun? No sir, not here. People get driven out, people freak out if you do not use sage, use wrong words or whatever other reasons. Just look at /blue/, this place is nothing more than a vent for all the rage, hate and anger.

Maybe some day we can learn how to take it easy again and try to get back to how this place used to be.
No. 2761
>>2752

Maybe if you didn't abuse IP/Hostmask look up on posts so much, you'd feel a bit less inclined to make subtle potshots at people that I'm sure only you think is classy enough to avoid being pointed out that you're just basically insulting the person you're replying to.
No. 2762
>>2761
Ok, sure. I abuse the feature. I also eat babies. Whatever makes you sleep at night. I'm keenly aware that I replied with an insult, one whose sarcastic veneer was so thin that a grade schooler could see through it. That was the point. I don't believe I have to just put up with potshots against me either just because there are those out there who might believe me to be some sort of unreasonable and evil overlord. Or just something that I'm not.

For the record, if anyone has a problem with what I say or my actions, they are more than welcome to discuss it in a civil manner with me. Be it on the site or IRC. The poster I singled out earlier is someone who completely forfeited any rational discussion by choosing not to even talk. Someone whom I had shown nothing but respect to. I do not have to abide the misdirected bitching of someone who did not even bother to state things openly to me. I am just human, after all. Hmm... I wonder if you even bothered to post your opinion without using a proxy. I'd check, but usually don't log in every waking hour of the day. I'll hope and assume you didn't, because you wouldn't want to make this classless wretch accuse you of spinelessness, would you?

Feel free to create as many threads denouncing me in this section of the site if it pleases you. Just know that I'll gladly counter rational and evidence-based arguments wherever I find them with rational arguments of my own. No one on this site has ever gotten banned for an opinion or trying to hold a civilized debate. If you're a dick, I'll just be a dick back or ignore you.

inb4 dismissive attitude
No. 2766
>>2755
first we have to dispel the illusion that this site is 'superior' when it's nothing of the sort. It's a fanfic site and one that both Shrinemaiden and Poosh consider to have its head up its own ass. It's why Harker rarely writes on here, all the wretched faggotry going on.

>>2761
Teruyo isn't one to do that much, and he isn't one to be an irrational dick. Now some other people on the other hand... WOULD be such a dick.
No. 2767
>>2766
>one that both Shrinemaiden and Poosh consider to have its head up its own ass.

What a compliment. I dread the day we fall to the level of faggotry those sites proudly exhibit.
No. 2768
>>2767
You've got your own brand~

That's the thing I hate most about this site, actually.
No. 2769
>>2768
That we try to stay clear of the common faggotry shown on other sites? Or that new users don't want to accept our kind of rules here and the site gets labeled as shit?
Our place is unique.
No. 2770
>>2769
Your way of speaking. Try to take it easy and get that stick out of your ass.
No. 2771
>>2766

Shrinemaiden, regardless of this place, is quite full of people with heads up their asses anyhow. It is quite veritably the asshole of the english Touhou community. Having been a part of it for a while now, I can attest to this.

Poosh is a bit different, mainly because anyone who's a royal fucktard from Shrinemaiden don't consider Poosh to be worth their time. Poosh has it's own share of asswipes, but there's quite a few reasonable and okay people on it.

THP itself is somewhere between Shrinemaiden and Poosh, whereas you get more dickheads and witch hunts then you would on Poosh, it's nowhere near the nasty level that is Shrinemaiden.

Hmm, I wonder what other english Touhou communities we could needlessly compare ourselves to...
No. 2772
Harker has been sighted on Poosh a few times where he said the general "faggotry" of THP keeps him from visiting much. And anything supposedly superior or elite on the net suffers from a common fate: decay into hallow elitism and faggotry. 4chan was once upon a time thought of as a superior place and now it basically provokes snickers from most folks.

And in my own experience on Poosh it's generally funner there as folks talk about Touhou stuff without much of the contentious faggotry that comes up around here when most discussions are had.
No. 2773
>>2771
I was on Shrinemaiden, and I must say that while the forum part is quite amusing, there's nothing to do, except discuss. They aren't testing games or anything like that, and their fanfictions are... well if I had to copypaste one of them, all of you would probably burn them down immediatly.

Pooshmer is a little better, even if admin and adminlings are often rude wankers, and also, the site seems to be plagued by requesting fag spamming "NEED THIS ASAP".

4chan... was better before.
No. 2774
I was wondering when the next circlejerk was scheduled. I was worried that I'd have to start it myself at this rate, but you guys came through for me.

And also, I have to laugh at the fact that any of you think we're better than poosh or shrinemaiden. In fact, I have to laugh at THEM for thinking they're any better than us. The fact that we obsess over touhou of all things shows that we're all faggots, regardless.

That said, different strokes. Shrinemaiden makes me want to kill someone, half the topics in poosh are riddled with XD's and emoticons because the posters are too young to type properly or something, and we take ourselves far too seriously, driving out most any newcomers and stagnating in our old faggotry as a result.

The entire touhou community is terrible, frankly. Just need to pick your poison.
No. 2775
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2775
>>2774

I have to agree with this guy. It's statistical really, the Touhou community is too fucking small (no matter what it looks like) to survive itself. In normal communities, when an asshole shows up, he gets lynched and is replaced by seven more people in under an hour. In the Touhou community, everyone forms a coven to bitch about people they don't like because frankly, they don't have the numbers to toss people left and right, or walk to another thousand fansites. Has anyone noticed that for the hundreds of thousands of posts on Danbooru, the site is mainly supported by a small handful of people everyone knows? Zun is a comiketfag, which means that when he runs out of ideas, the fanbase will slowly fizzle out as no new material appears. There's no fix, there's no solution. We just have to ride the Touhou craze as long as it lasts, and enjoy ourselves.

Just take it easy guys. I'm gonna go write an entry for my story, because goddammit, I just inspired myself.
No. 2776
>we take ourselves far too seriously
Thank you. That was my whole point for making this thread. We take outselves too serious and it ends in shit. The other sites are shit but at least they have fun being shit. We are shit and are miserable. Whoever is better is up to discussion, but at least let's learn to have fun again. Be friendly to new people, show them the way and how things are done.

And maybe, just maybe, we can enjoy some story without starting a shitfest.
No. 2777
Random post from Shrinemaidens: "Didn't help that not but a moment later I saw a blu-ray called "Ran" XD."

Random post from Pooshlmer: "OKAY FAGGOTS. SIT YOUR FAGGOT ASS DOWN AND LISTEN."

Random post from THP: "[X] Get the fuck out."

Make your own conclusion.
No. 2778
>>2776
indeed, and maybe if we keep it up, Harker will come back and finish his story.
No. 2779
>>2774
>The entire touhou community is terrible, frankly.

I can die happy knowing that there's someone out there who shares my opinion on it.

>>2776

I tend to have my own fun here on the site regardless of how it's like but that's probably because I try to separate myself from the rest of the community for the most part. After my first couple posts here I regretted posting here because all I was doing was contributing to said shit and making myself worse for wear for it.

Lesson learned, I am a dickhead.

>>2777

I'd rather pick Poosh then have to deal with Gaiamaiden. You can be nice without sounding like your mother hasn't taught you what sex is yet.
No. 2781
>>2777
A zombie vote? I'd rather have Poosh than that shit, judging from those posts.
No. 2783
>The fact that we obsess over touhou of all things shows that we're all faggots, regardless.
No. There's nothing wrong with liking Touhou. Finding your entertainment elsewhere would not make you a better person in any way.
No. 2790
ITT: yaf.
No. 2793
>>2777
What makes Pooshlmer less up its ass compared to here or Shrinemaidens? I'm not trying to pick a fight, I'm just wondering why they're like that, while THP is more "elitist". Are they younger in age compared to THP? Is it due to originating from a different site compared to THP or Shrinemaidens?

Also people said 4-chan used to be okay, but hasn't it always been known for being a pretty terrible site?
No. 2794
Same poster as >>2793, looked a little through Pooshlmer, I have to say this site is far better organized.
No. 2795
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2795
>>2793
4chan wasn't always terrible. I started on /a/ about 4 years ago and while not all of the content was good, overall the site was a good read and a great place to piss away my time. Then /a/ turned to shit, /jp/ got created, and that turned to shit as well. I never went on /b/ but from what I've gathered it was once good, and the whole "4chan was always terrible" was mostly a joke.
No. 2796
>>2793
I never said that Pooshlmer was bad or anything like that. It has some good points, like any website, but honestly, I hate Poosh's moderation.
I think that if you have to insult people and call them "faggot" to be sure you're understood, then there's a trouble.

Let's observe THP's rules for newcomer. It's simple, and you don't have the feeling you're insulted then you're reading it.

THP is a good place to lurk. There are just requirements for writers and readers. And, of course, it's easier being a reader than a writer.
No. 2799
>>2796
>I think that if you have to insult people and call them "faggot" to be sure you're understood, then there's a trouble.
Wait what?

And problems with moderation? Do you mean lack of it? The only actual moderator is the admin, and his idea of moderation is essentially "No one has posted into the deletion request thread. I'll check back tomorrow".
No. 2801
>>2793
less hateful faggotry, less people obbessed with the site's 'superiority'. Let's face it, people here are terrible stuck up about what amounts to a fanfiction site that just happened to have a few halfway talented people.

>>2796
It still doesn't do anything about the typical spiteful faggot attitude of Anon. People at Poosh aren't as bad.
No. 2803
>>2801
Anon had to put up with a lot of shit since the split from /a/ and when they got thrown out of /jp/.
THP was always a place where everyone knew what is allowed and what not, everyone followed the same rules, without them having to be said. There was never a need to write some things like a thread about how to survive here. It is just like /jp/: newfags came and fucked it up. They don't want to integrate and just want to behave like faggots witohut understand how we are.

Making some threads about bad new writers? Making people realize things that should be pretty obvious? If someone was bad they were told so and left from alone when no one cared. Some say we scare new people away but i say so what? Either they like it or they don't, either they accept it or not. I am not going someplace and tell them: fuck it, let's do it my way and not your way.

Or in short: Anon is angry and bitter because people ruined their fun. They forgot to take it easy and take everything as possible threats that needs to be taken care of aggressively. And who can blame them, it is not their fault.
No. 2804
I know it may have been a while ago, but aren't the Pooshlmer bunch the ones who had the thing of bitching about others "spoiling the purity of Touhou" because they weren't TRUE FANS or some other retarded nonsense?

Perhaps I've missed something, but I honestly don't recall ever seeing anything quite like that here, so I have a hard time believing that this place is as bad as they are. Or, were, in the off-chance they've actually improved since the last time I was there. But I doubt it.
No. 2806
>>2804

I thought that was Doujinstyle? Or it might have been Shrinemaiden. Who knows, it could have been anyone, the entire english touhou community is pretty fucked up in the head without having to actually associate with the origin in the first place, so it's probably all moot point.
No. 2808
>>2803
Except that here, people are prone to ripping into targets of opportunity, not just moronic hack newfags. It's not a good sign that Harker's citing "Site faggotry" as the reason he doesn't update much at all.

The case of the rage? It's a mix of newfags shitting things up, frustration over all the unfinished stories and so forth.

>>2804
That's not what I remembered, just someone trying to stop the spread of bad fanon and the misconceptions it breeds. That is unless you like the bad fanon renditions of various characters.
No. 2809
>>2808
Alice and Marisa are so totally in love da ze
No. 2810
>>2808
>>bad fanon

Fanon is fanon, no matter how good or bad it may be.

Not wanting fan interpretations to overshadow the official works is one thing, but the fact anyone is drawing a distinction between "good" fanon and "bad" fanon makes me think the issue isn't any sort of concern for how the official works are perceived, but what fanon is more "acceptable" than others.

Maybe it's just me, but when I see someone start drawing lines like that, and saying what amounts to "MY interpretation is better than YOUR interpretation, and anyone who disagrees is stupid and wrong and needs to be stopped", I can't help but find that more than a little arrogant, even if the other guy's interpretation actually is pretty damn stupid.

The point is, it was not about some noble crusade to protect the integrity or purity of Touhou, or whatever, it was about getting upset over someone doing fanon the "wrong" way.

The whole problem with this and the general "TRUE FAN" attitude that it reminds me of, is that it doesn't seem like they really care about the the thing they enjoy, but how it's being enjoyed.

It's like seeing two kids who both supposedly love playing with toy cars, but refuse to play with each other because they think the other kid "plays with his cars wrong."

Maybe one of the kids has a point. Maybe, while one is rolling them around and pretending they're racing, the other is furiously masturbating while shoving his cars up is ass.

I can understand why the one kid doesn't like that, and doesn't want to have anything to do with the other guy, but that doesn't mean he has to make it his mission in life to stop him.
Why not leave him to do his thing? He doesn't have to play with him if he doesn't want to, so why can't he just keep playing with his cars while the other guy continues doing whatever the hell he's doing elsewhere?

I might not like certain interpretations of these little girls in funny hats, but I don't see why those interpretations shouldn't be allowed to exist. Even with as vague as the canon is, there's still enough of it there that you can pretty easily tell that someone like Tenshi isn't some drooling masochist, or Alice is a perpetually-stuttering tsundere aching for Marisa's love-mushroom.

Such misconceptions should not be an issue, so then why should anyone insist on making it an issue in the first place?
No. 2811
>>2810

Any interpretation of the characters that blatantly contradicts canon is bad fanon. This would include things like making Alice a tsundere, Remilia having any less than fuckhuge wings, or Sakuya being the cool and collected type rather than something of an airhead.

Mind you, bad fanon can still be a good story. Unlikely, though.
No. 2812
>>2810
Embracing of Fanon occurs out of ignorance of official materials, partially due to some never even playing the games in the first place, and partially due to some using the characters to suit their own agendas.

And it is an issue as the great founders ran with these misconceptions. And these often taint the opinions of anon which in turn affects other stories. Undoing the trends takes a good amount of work and/or time.

Some examples:
HY: Ice Bitch Sakuya
Scorn: Tsun/Yandere Alice
Many people: Uber Bitch Reimu
Teruyo (first run): Bitchy NEET Kaguya.

Further more, some folks hate characters due to how fanon plays them and without knowledge of canon. It doesn't help that generic emo yuri doujins get translated faster than official materials.

I think the best way of fighting this is making knowledge of official materials better known so those that want to find out can do so.

>>2811
Basically true, though with Sakuya, she can be cool and collected, but it's in rare cases (EoSD), and her usual ditzy manner is mainly seen in the side material, which isn't widely known to most compared to bad fanon-heavy fanworks.
No. 2813
>>2811
Fanon always contradicts canon. If it didn't, it would be canon.
No. 2814
>>2813
True but better fanon attempts to pay some sort or respect to canon.

Take say Remilia having small wings.
If they were the result of Remilia shrinking them for comfort (yet being unable to hide them completely), good.

If she always has small wings, bad.

Sticking to canon perfectly is basically impossible, but respecting it isn't so hard.
No. 2815
>>2814
I'm going to pretend you're saying "fanon I like more" whenever you say "better fanon."

There. Argument averted.
No. 2818
>>2814
You have missed the point entirely by continuing to use the phrase better fanon.
No. 2821
>>2818
when such a notion exists? Newfags seem to get many bad ideas from the early stories which they try to poorly replicate. Now if it was known that that kind of fanon shouldn't be followed, better stories would result.
To say otherwise would be insisting that having toy cars race a crazy race course is the same as shoving them up your ass while masturbating.
No. 2823
>>2821
To each his own so long as they bring no interference to another's enjoyment with their own.

You have your own ideas of what's good fanon, but they're certainly not universal or likely even predominant. They're your own, nothing more.
To say anything otherwise is sheer arrogance.
No. 2828
This thread make my day.
If I get it right, you're trying to figure how fanon is supposed to act in front of canon, is that right?

Let me tell you how I've come to hate you that, IN MY VIEW, you're doing it wrong.
Canon and fanon is just completly different. It's the writer's job to decide if he wants to write a "canon" story (aka as canon as possible), or if he wants to write a fanon story (aka any other story, introducing the cold and bitchy Sakuya, other stuff like that).
You're trying to melt both, and I think (I may be wrong, of course), that it's not the right thing to do.

Just my opinion, and of course, I may be wrong.
No. 2829
>>2828
>This thread made my day.
What a terrible day. I'm sorry.
No. 2831
>>2828
I disagree as some fanon is compatible with canon with some work while some is not.
No. 2832
>>2831
No. Some fan works are compatible with canon. Stop saying fanon when you mean fan works. Please.
No. 2834
And FUCK, all I wrote was lost.
Let's try it again.

Point of this discussion/shitstorm is that fanon is more or less shit.
Since we're on THP, I'll say that we're talking about fanon in stories, right? Or else there's no logic.

Let me tell you what I think. Most of THP's "good stories" (aka stories that more than 5 peoples enjoy) aren't really based on canon.
Let's take a risk, and let's talk about Gensokyo High, from Taisa.
Putting all the shitstorm and pedo accusations apart, it was still a good story, right? It was funny to read? You were looking forward to an update, right?
And yet, this story, as many other stories, was not canon at all.

And that's what I'm trying to say with clumsy words: the more "fanon" a story is, the more enjoyable it'll be to read.
Of course, there's still the "too fanon to be enjoyable" story, like Teruyo's first story on /eientei/. Kaguya being fond of meme? Suuure.

But you can't honestly ask writers to be completly respectful of canon. Even if ZUN designed canon as... wide as possible, it's still bounding writers.


Saged because completly clumsy, and possibly impossible to understand. Picture not related, but I loved it.
No. 2839
>>2834
popularity does not equal quality. GH was amusing but not exactly exceptional in content, anything having a bitchy NEET Kaguya will never be exceptional.

I think it is possible as opposed to outright shitting all over it.
No. 2841
>popularity does not equal quality.

I disagree. You can absolutely equate popularity with quality, you just have to change the standard by which you judge it, and consider what the thing itself is trying to do.

Would you judge the quality of a comedy routine by the same standards you would judge a political speech? They may be both examples of public speaking, and share some of the same "rules", but there's a crucial difference in what the two are trying to accomplish. You probably couldn't say the political speech was good if everyone in the room was laughing at the end of it, but for the comedy routine? Absolutely. If whole point of it was to make people laugh, then doesn't it make sense to gauge how good it was by the number of people laughing at it?

Why is it any different here? If your goal is to craft a fine piece of literature, great. Go for it. But, for the most part, this isn't simple literature. It's interactive storytelling, having more in common with telling stories to a group of people around a campfire than typing out a novel from beginning to end. You're not just trying to tell a story, you're trying to involve the people you're telling it to in the process. They aren't simply an audience listening to your every word, they're participants.

To use another example: pop music.
Musically, it may be utter garbage, but judging by the traditional standards of music is to completely miss the point. The goal of pop music isn't to be good music, it's to be popular. To appeal to as many people as it possibly can. By the standards of music a whole, it may be the most atrocious clusterfuck of sound anyone has ever dared to pass of as a song, but by the standards of commercially-manufactured music specifically designed to appeal to as wide an audience as possible? You bet your ass it being popular means it's good.

So a popular story might not be "good" when judged by one standard of judging stories, but that doesn't mean it's not good when judged by another. It might not be an example of excellent writing, but it can be perfectly fine as mindless fluff.

I like a well-written story as much as the next guy, but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy a nice piece of mindless fluff, too. It's like candy. Bad for you, especially in large quantities, but damn if it doesn't taste good from time to time.
No. 2845
>>2839
what about shy NEET kaguya
No. 2847
>>2841
>If whole point of it was to make people laugh, then doesn't it make sense to gauge how good it was by the number of people laughing at it?
No, because a shitty comedian could make people laugh by tripping over himself and doing a terrible job. His routine was shitty and people were laughing at it. Something like that happening is an indicator of poor quality.

>Musically, it may be utter garbage, but judging by the traditional standards of music is to completely miss the point. The goal of pop music isn't to be good music, it's to be popular.
And musically it's still shit. There's no point in gauging the quality of anything if you're just going to adjust the scales to make anything look good.
No. 2848
>>2847
>There's no point in gauging the quality of anything

Now you get it. It's a fanfiction site, if everybody likes it, they like it. Mind your own fucking buisness with your very personal opinions. This coming from somone that dislikes almost every story on here.
No. 2849
>>2848
This man said it.
We're not writing for quality. We're writing because we want to.
No. 2851
>>2848
>>2849
What.

Have we really sunk this low?
No. 2852
>>2851
If you really want quality, then THP is screwed. First, because most stories are "bad" stories (original characters, stuff...).
Second, because THP is called elitist (dunno if it's true, and I don't care), and it'll get worse if you really want quality.
No. 2853
Overvaluation of technical excellence considered harmful.
No. 2854
If we stop caring about quality then we'll just become fanfiction.net 2.0.
It's our elitism that's chased away the shitty writers and kept us receiving stories with a minimum standard of "not entirely bad".
This is a good thing.
No. 2855
>>2854
Slippery slope argument. No thanks.
No. 2856
>>2854
What's with fanfiction.net?
No troll, honest question.
No. 2857
>>2856
Go check some stories out there. You'll see.

That said, I really like Imperfect Metamorphosis.
No. 2858
>>2851
Partly yes. No one cares that much anymore, including me. Threads like these make me see how bad it has gotten, but it is still somehow kept in check.
>>2849
>implying that writers write for the sake of the readers.
ahahhahahahahahahahahhahahahahah.
>>2854
I can only agree. There are two things to consider: Do we let new bad writers and stupid newfags in just for the sake of it becoming less and less people or do we try to keep the quality of the site that many of the writers made sure THP has now.
A side product was that it that the mood became too serious and THP became some sort of police state where sage and reporting is used to enforce order and get rid of "unwanted elements" eh....

Being elitist brought enough troubles and drama but it is what saved this site from drowning into shit like 4chan. And i take that over some faggots who make stories like on fanfiction net. Gotta keep the spirit from the old place alive.

On another note, >>2848 you are one poor sap. Quality is very much needed, in life and everywhere else. No one wants to read a shit story, which is badly written and has QUALITY characters that are flat, can see everything ahead and find spelling errors left and right. You need to be entertained, not like a great literatur but something that is good written, has thought out characters, the writer knows english and what he is doing, can hold the dialogues and the interest. I know your stance on this but at least i am happy that THP had some decent writers that kept my interest over the years. That is enough for me and i hope it will stay like that in the future. THP was always self regulating, keeping bad writers out and encouraging the ones who want to learn to improve and get over their flaws.
No. 2859
>>2858
If we're going to enforce quality standards, let's start with your posting. Get the fuck out.
No. 2861
>>2858
>>implying that writers write for the sake of the readers.
Kindly take your greentext and fuck off. Additionally, YES, the writers write for the readers because if they didn't they wouldn't share their damn stories in the first place.

>let new bad writers and stupid newfags in just for the sake of it becoming less and less people
Letting people in reduces the population?

>THP became some sort of police state where sage and reporting
Actually, I'd say that describes /jp/ much better than here. I don't see people ever saying "saged, reported, hidden, filtered, and I called the cops" here.

Yes, we care about quality here. No, this is not some grand literature site and we aren't pretending to be. We simply ask that you not suck shit. And if you do suck shit, either get better fast or get the fuck out.
No. 2862
>>2859
Tough luck. If i would write you could tell me to fuck off.
>>2861
Funny thing is that posts get reported. We are just too slow to go by /jp/ standards here. And not that shit.
>Letting people in reduces the population?
Made a mistake.
No. 2864
>>2862
That's not how it works, writers don't get held to a higher standard, their flaws are just more obvious because they post in greater quantity. If your posting is atrocious, writer or not you get called on it.

So, get the fuck out. Or at least stop pretending you're some kind of authority on what is or isn't quality posting or English if you can't go two fucking sentences without fucking up.
No. 2865
>>2862
>Funny thing is that posts get reported.
And your basis for this claim is?
No. 2866
>>2864
Since when did i say i was someone who could tell others what to do. I am nothing but just a voice among the masses. And my points are valid enough to be heard just as others. My english may not be as good as it once was but it is still better than most others.

It seems you have a problem with me. Well, i have none with you, so i am sorry for you. You are free to ignore me if you do not agree with me or think i am so bad.

And believe it or not but i know when something is shit and when not. And i am only partly talking about the grammar and spelling.
No. 2867
>>2866
> No one wants to read a shit story, which is badly written and has QUALITY characters that are flat, can see everything ahead and find spelling errors left and right.
Saying something like this with your level of grammar and spelling is hypocrisy.

>And believe it or not but i know when something is shit and when not. And i am only partly talking about the grammar and spelling.

I'm not arguing about your ability to judge what other people write as shit, I'm just saying that you could at least have the decency to uphold the standard you're talking about while you post. Otherwise all you're doing it throwing more shit on the pile.
No. 2868
>>2867

...no. It isn't. It would be hypocrisy if he was writing a shit story with terribly flat characters and poor grammar with misspelled words every third word while at the same time telling people to stop being bad. His rather poor english may make him an easy target, but don't just throw out everything he says because of that.
No. 2869
>>2867
Sadly you too fail to see my point.

>I'm just saying that you could at least have the decency to uphold the standard you're talking about while you post.
Listen. We are talking about writers and stories here. That is what counts, that is what matters. I am not writing a story so it does not matter what i write. You seem to be able to understand what i write so then you should be able to understand what i mean. My friend, the matter that is important here is that we uphold the standards for writers and stories. If you fail to think that far and are only interested how i write then you are sadly not thinking too much ahead. Remember my words.

At this point any more talk about my writing style or something else involving me would be useless, i said my parts and it would only be an endless repetition. If osmething else comes up i will once again jump into the discussion. Until then.
No. 2870
>>2868
"You have to write without spelling or grammar errors, but I don't have to because I'm not a writer."
That's. Bullshit.
I don't mind seeing bad posts, but I don't want to see someone who makes bad posts trying to talk about how other people should be posting.

>>2869
Writers are important, but the audience and their posts are visible too.
Where's the distinction? Your posts are just as visible, they're smaller to be sure, but that just makes it all the more incredible that you're able to pack so many errors in such a confined space.
No. 2871
With all the rage flying around, it's little wonder Harker doesn't write here much. I understand the need for quality control, but going about it in such a hateful raging fashion is ultimately counter productive.

And as far as the Popularity/quality debate? Remember Average Joe? That was pretty popular for a gary-stu lead POS.
No. 2872
>>2870

And what if it's an ESL issue? What if his spelling is not born of laziness, but genuine error?

As apparently I can't talk to anyone on THP without going into expletives anymore, let me make it clear that all I'm saying is calm the fuck down. You're leaping down his throat and going out of your way to attack everything he says because of bad grammar. That might be okay if this is wiseman or random anon you're talking to, but odds are it isn't.
No. 2873
>>2871

Still believe that he brought in his own friends to vote for him, by the way. That story really was completely horrible in every way, even for the type of story that it was.
No. 2874
>>2872
That sort of invalidates itself because he is talking about what other people do.

If he was posting normally, in a story, fine and fucking dandy. But if he's posting here, talking about how other people should conduct themselves in relation to their grammar and spelling? Then I don't give a rats ass whatever his reason for his poor posting might be, because in the first place, if you don't speak English as a first language don't post about how bad other peoples English is.
No. 2875
>>2874
Also the errors aren't indicative of the usual ESL errors (Pro-noun gender relation, position of commas) but of either typing too quickly or laziness. Regardless of which of the two caused the issue, it's still a matter of laziness since it's things he should be able to fix by taking three seconds to read his post over and proofread it.
No. 2877
>>2874

He was pointing out how writers should have a good grasp over the language they're writing in, which is something that really shouldn't be up to debate no matter how bad his english happens to be.

Anyway, I'm done. I can see that this is just going to go in circles until I stop responding and you can say you're right, so let's just do that now.
No. 2878
>>2877
>He was pointing out how writers
Which is still a poor distinction. Even if the writers are all flawlessly churning out masterpieces, what's the point when all the responses they get are incomprehensible?
>which is something that really shouldn't be up to debate no matter how bad his english happens to be
That's precisely why I never argued that point.

>Anyway, I'm done. I can see that this is just going to go in circles until I stop responding and you can say you're right, so let's just do that now.

Good idea.
No. 2879
>>2878
Totally agree with you.
A good story can be ruined if Anon's post are retarded and/or full of typos.
Just saying "I'm not a writer" isn't an excuse, especially on THP.
No. 2880
So, what just happened in this thread? I'm having a tough time summarizing this argument.
No. 2882
File 130208194157.jpg - (491.59KB , 624x881 , 17066105.jpg ) [iqdb]
2882
>>2880
Who knows. Does it matter?
No. 2883
File 130209573047.png - (62.75KB , 817x1264 , That's YAF for you.png ) [iqdb]
2883
Let me explain you.
Someone started a topic to say that he loved the website.
YAF came in, with his trip, like usual.
Someone raged at YAF.
YAF raged.
Shit ensuits.
Lulz.
Meanwhile, somewhere in Alaska, someone is dying alone, and noone care.
No. 2886
>>2883
Serves them right for going to Alaska. That's Letty country!
No. 2887
File 130210517462.jpg - (441.73KB , 809x800 , a579e928e89934956dd6a3d56c28acf9.jpg ) [iqdb]
2887
Regarding Quality and QUALITY:
Doesn't matter that much. Like they say, the objective of a CYOA is to be popular. However, it usually requires a certain degree of quality. This is why everyone that said that we'll become Fanfcition.net if we think on terms of popularity is wrong: FF.net is like it's because the quality there is enough for the readers. However, for the last years, a formula rings true: More Quality = More popularity. Examples: "The Game" "Scarlet Stained Rememoir" "Fallout Gensokyo" "Ancient Gensokyo" "That awesome story in /others/ that the author got tired of doing and lied about a disc wipe"
Finally, you /blue/rs remember what happened to that Megaman crossover shit and the first part of A restorer in gensoyko right? Quality MUST reach some standards otherwise... well, Anon polices himself.

Regarding Canon and Fanon:
The 'trick' behind Touhou is that there isn't enough canon to sustain a story. Every story is Fanon to some degree. In my humble opinion, the more a story respects Canon, the better; but I don't trick myself believing that a story can be possible without Fanon.

Regarding writers:
They're doing everything for nothing. Twice. They can say and believe what the hell they want as long as A-They're decent B-They respect their readers.
I can think of two writers (Suika route where?) who failed the last point and are gone. I can't say I'm sorry.

Regarding this thread:
I really like discussions. Keep it up and all that.
No. 2888
What I hate here is that, sometimes, Anon won't even read the story before posting hate.
For example, the other day I saw YAF starting a story in /shrine/ (not accurate, I know, I'll look for it later), and he was flamed down before the story even started.

That's why I think that sometimes, no matter what the story is, Anon will always says: "It's XXX's so it sucks."

Saged because I'm no giving link.
No. 2890
I like how everyone loved Archetype of Self was introducing a self-inserted Mary-Sue.
And, yet, A Wizard Is You is way better, and is suffering from retarded accusation like that.

How ironic.
No. 2892
>>2890
Never change~
No. 2893
>>2890
the difference was AoS was in /shrine/ and easily ignored by those that didn't like it while Wizard is in /th/ and not easily ignored by butthurt retards.
No. 2895
>>2893
You are glossing over the most important difference; the fans of both respective stories. While AoS was garbage, it didn't draw in retards from all walks of the internet. Wizard does, and revels in it.
No. 2896
>>2893
I wouldn't say that AoS was garbage, because it would be hypocrit from me (since I enjoyed it), but I must say that the main character was overpowered, and also, some writer's post suggested that he had troubles with his family.
And MC also had troubles with his mother.

That's why, for me, it's a "interesting" story, but not a "good" story.
And, yes, /th/ does attract morons from teh internet.
No. 2898
When it comes to things like this, I just blame Hartmann.
No. 2899
File 130212544620.jpg - (140.33KB , 648x486 , Hartmann is angry.jpg ) [iqdb]
2899
>>2898
*insert intentional logical fallacies*
No. 2901
>>2896
everyone has issues with family and most guys have mother issues.

But it's decently composed and amusing, though I wouldn't say it's top tier.

The Wizard story is higher quality in general despite its occasional meme overload.

But yeah /th/ gets the bulk of the derp, that and Landscout's story in /sdm/.
No. 2906
File 13021829274.gif - (334.12KB , 200x200 , 6e865117a741d93fc8888f90cdb35d987aa81204.gif ) [iqdb]
2906
>>2901
/th/ always gets more stories than any other board. Statistically speaking it'll always get the worst shit.
But what boards does get the better shit? My vote goes for /others/ or /youkai/
No. 2907
File 130218439128.jpg - (49.92KB , 275x275 , yian_me.jpg ) [iqdb]
2907
>>2883
If I really raged, you'd be DEAD! And in FLAMES! And stomped FLAT! And then somebody would cart you away like nothing happened and you'd be totally fine.

Drats.

>>2888
>For example, the other day I saw YAF starting a story in /shrine/ (not accurate, I know, I'll look for it later), and he was flamed down before the story even started.
No, no. That was actually a well-deserved flame-down, and quite deliberately induced. The flamed-down story beginning in question contained everything that an average user of this site hates: a bland, outsider-waking-up-in-Gensokyo start, disgustingly purple descriptions, a meaningless go-left-or-go-right choice, absolutely no plot hooks in sight, and the author's apparent obliviousness to its shittiness.
The massive negative backlash was fully justified in this case, and, as I said, deliberately planned and executed, in order to make a clear, idiot-less space for the proper story. Those who stayed don't regret it, and those who got scared away, well… frankly, I don't care what they do at this point.

Of course, you could argue that if I started a story elsewhere, shitty or not, something similar would happen. Well, probably, yes. The question here is: would it bother me enough to affect my love for Mokoutits?

Not a chance, bro. Not a chance.

So take it easy, folks. Instead of discouraging bad writers from writing, try to encourage them to improve. Threat of punishment is not the best psychological motivator, and that you would rather bitch about it here in /blue/ rather than take actual action to aid your writers whose updates you so crave (or so I think) doesn't speak very positively of you. If my readers were a bunch of whiney hobbits like you, I'd have fucked off of the site long ago (in fact, I was close to it during the argument about Kaguya in MiD's early threads. I don't know how Demetrious deals with the massive amounts of shit in his threads, either. I wouldn't have been able to cope with that.).

So take it easy, folks. We're here to have fun, after all.

Just my two caws.

in b4 you don't take it easy at all
No. 2908
>Having more than 5 readers is apparantly an on-par story.
Well, shit. I feel subaverage now...but it doesn't really matter I suppose. I write because it's fun to do. Didn't realize it was all seriousness around here.
No. 2909
eveytime I read a popular story, the same thing always goes through my mind; "damn...these readers sure do get angry about everything."

to me, a good story is a good story. whether it be mary sue, another "drinking tea in gensokyo" story, or even those silly, meme-spewing random stories

thats not saying that I can't recognize a bad story tho

people don't seem to realize that posted comments(both author and reader alike) are just, like, opinions man, and should be taken with a grain of salt, pepper, and a dash of basil
No. 2911
>I'd have fucked off of the site long ago (in fact, I was close to it during the argument about Kaguya in MiD's early threads

Godamnit. God. Damnit. Oh how close we came.
No. 2912
File 130218869554.jpg - (174.10KB , 1000x677 , 17986762.jpg ) [iqdb]
2912
>>2911
Deal w/it
No. 2913
File 130218935553.jpg - (103.28KB , 800x800 , Lolo.jpg ) [iqdb]
2913
>>2907
Show 'me your rage.
No. 2914
>>2907
>Instead of discouraging bad writers from writing, try to encourage them to improve

Unfortunately, Anon is lazy. And encouraging people is sooo hard. Better and easier to just flame them, call their stories shit and try to make them ragequit.
No. 2915
Having not read anything by Yaf, he seems like a pretty chill guy. Why is he so hated?
No. 2916
>>2914
How are we supposed to encourage people whose English is bad? They need to improve their English. Preferably somewhere other than here.
No. 2917
>>2915
That's old story. I heard that he was a shitstorm lover before. Like Wiseman.
No. 2918
File 130219255114.jpg - (374.33KB , 800x600 , swooping_angry.jpg ) [iqdb]
2918
>>2913
BEHOLD! I AM NOW IN RAGE MODE!

>>2916
>How are we supposed to encourage people whose English is bad?
By pointing out their mistakes. Suggest they go to IRC, get a proofreader and work with him. Nearly all good writers (and I'm talking in general here, not just on THP) work on their writings with another person. Constructive criticism leads to improvement; name-calling does not. Nobody will be willing to improve for you if all you do is call him a talentless faggot. It's just how human psychology works.

I don't usually proof for anybody (having done it as a job kind of ruined it for me), but the other day I offered a hand to one of the new guys (hiyo, you~), and afterwards, I gave him some pointers as to how to make his text look and flow better. I'm normally a lazy person (hell, I'm a writer, so go figure), but it didn't really cost me that much effort and time. Seriously, it's not hard to spell out what is wrong with somebody's writing. So long as you know what the fuck you're saying.

If you want people to improve, be their teacher – an example, a critic – but not a mindless hater. Hating won't lead us anywhere. Consider it.
No. 2919
>>2918
And now YAF is the only one making sense here.
Hell must be frozen all over.
No. 2920
>>2908
>for fun
That's a good attitude to have as it's closer to the site's original spirit.

>>2914
So True it hurts.
No. 2921
>>2918
>So long as you know what the fuck you're saying.
Yeah, about that...
No. 2922
>Suggest they go to IRC
I approve of this idea. It is where the bad things belongs.
No. 2932
>>2921
Maybe I should actually request information when I want it.

Are there any particularly good sites/books for learning how to express why writing is bad?
No. 2933
File 130229052791.jpg - (194.64KB , 900x800 , 1279326829823.jpg ) [iqdb]
2933
The amount of haters that YAF has and their butthurt is really amusing.
Sure, YAF Fucked up before. But he stayed back, tried again, and make a story that is shitting quality (not QUALITY) all over itself. Sure, kind of a slow pace, but that's part of the style.
I like to compare it to Bioshock. When it says "Open a door" it means "Backtrack for 20 minutes" When his story says "Go to Moriya Shrine" it means: "Crash into X's house for a week"
No. 2935
File 13022921527.jpg - (262.87KB , 1090x1200 , Hurr durr.jpg ) [iqdb]
2935
>>2933
The amount of dicksuckers that YAF has and their sycophancy is really amusing.
Sure, YAF got ran out a long time ago. But he stayed quiet, tried again, and make a story that is shitting QUALITY (not quality) all over itself. Sure, kind of a retarded pace, and really pretentious, but thats part of YAF's attention whoring.
I like to compare it to Modern Warfare 2. When it says "rated M for mature" it means "for mentally deficient children." When his story says "insert vote here" it means: "Give me attention"
No. 2936
File 130229457692.jpg - (501.20KB , 1200x1200 , 1279326701364.jpg ) [iqdb]
2936
>>2935
Thanks for the pic and the post. Heh, you made my day.
No. 2937
File 130229633790.jpg - (52.74KB , 500x406 , 1283517141269.jpg ) [iqdb]
2937
>YAF
No. 2943
File 130236588396.jpg - (329.56KB , 1000x1000 , 1ef4ee9f87ec3cf255458fd4cf4f1ed2.jpg ) [iqdb]
2943
YAF is blessed with something great: he don't give a fuck about our opinions.
If you try to call him a fag and make him ragequit, he'll just laugh at you, call you mad, and wonderfully ignore you.

The downside of this blessing is that that doesn't make him a good writer, unfortunately. I think he can be a good advisor, and a good poster (assuming he don't want to troll just because he's bored), but he won't be a good writer.

TL;DR: YAF put on his sunglasses and doesn't give a fuck about everything.
No. 3266
Okay. Frankly speaking here.

Why is YAF so hated around here?

He's not really all that bad. Some might see him as attention whoring, kut-ku crazed, not-giving-the-fuck bastard, but he writes an okay-ish story and didn't shitposting the other's story for lulz anymore.

Just chill, bro. Hating because it's trendy is not cool.
No. 3267
>>3266
I'm not sure, but I think it's because, a long time ago, he used other people's thread to create shitstorm.
i never checked that, so I might be wrong, and he was clean since he's back.

My turn now: sometimes I read stuff about Harker, and him leaving due to faggotry. What faggotry? Anon's? Cabal's?
No. 3269
File 130515311729.jpg - (109.15KB , 510x680 , SIXTY MELYNXES GET THE FUCK OFF OF ME.jpg ) [iqdb]
3269
>>3266
They're all jelly of my mad rushin' skills. True story.

In all seriousness, it's because I used to be a huge twat in the past (being 16-17 does that to you), and sadly that was the time when the site was in its liveliest months.
Then I left and took a sex change surgery. Now I'm a huge dick. Plus, in contrast to some/most of the writers on here I also have a certain amount of self-confidence and that pisses less secure people off.

I don't hate on haters, though. They're good fun. The stories are fun, too. And that's what I am here for. Fun.

So rock on, brothers, rock on.

No. 3549
Okay, frankly speaking.
THP's frontpage says something about friendly admins. They are named HY, Kapow, Zer00.

I already know that HY left (don't really know why), I know that kapow is procratinating on IRC, and sometimes spamcheck on the website, but I never heard anything about zer00. Is he still here?
No. 3550
>>3549
He is in #eientei.
Alwas there to take care of all arising problems and of course always there to talk about world politics, philosopic question and lunarians.
No. 3552
>>3549
It's Teruyo.
No. 3555
File 130760957544.png - (9.31KB , 493x402 , MY BRAIN.png ) [iqdb]
3555
>>3552
TERUYO IS ZER00?
No. 3556
>>3555



...Is this satire?
No. 3557
>>3556
Honestly I have to ask this, but how many actual writers have more than one username?
No. 3559
>>3557
Usually they keep the same trip. That's how we can recognize them.
For example, YAF sometimes uses other nickname, but he keeps the same trip.
Tsurupettan, au contraire, is the opposite. Never use any name, only use his trip.
No. 3560
>>3559
Is the "trip" that long set of numbers and symbols normally next to the username?
No. 3561
>>3560
Yes.
No. 3562
>>3560
Yes.
For example, I wrote "Anon#HotShots" in the Name field. It's like a password.
I think it's the same on all imageboard, which means you can theorically use the same trip everywhere.