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1868 No. 1868
I did not want to post this in Do the Right Thing because of respect for the Writer.

Like i said some time ago, you need to put a stop to this faggotry before it is too late and you can't stop it anymore. The faggots multiply really fast and bring their own friends here.
Some of the new bad Writers should have been banned like we did with J to the E. Writer like Docteur Hartmann and maybe TwittyandStrange. But you could reeducate him and some others to be better posters here.

The Writers i call bad new Writers would be /th/ On the Business End by TwittyandStrange, Docteur Hartmann, the Guy who writes (untitled falcon story) and the Guy who writes Just an Average Joe (his Story is like what YAF wrote back when he first started. If you read it you know what i mean.)
All those people brought their shitty friends and other people who shit up this board without wanting to adept or even try to become good posters. They don't even check the Archives or read something else. With time they will start up shit stories which will be read by people who think it is great. The Quality will be lost and the site will be worse than fanfic.net. This of course will discourage new good Writers to step out and start writing. Of course the normal Users will be put off too when faggotry reigns here and would not want to post or vote anymore. As you can see that most people on IRC already are not interested anymore. I feel like the Rednecks from Dead Rising 2 but whatever.

I am asking the Posters on this Site to reflect on the said and try to become good Posters. Or at least try to fit in and accept the rules here. If that does not help i am asking the Mods to take the matter in their hands own hands and enforce those rules. The Cancer needs to be killed before it can spread and kill the whole Site.

>> No. 1869
I forgot to mention that Posters like Bentusi Tradeship and You Know Me~ should get banned too. Or at last get shown their wrongdoings and get made better posters. Bentusi is not a bad guy but his posts make you facepalm. If he works a bit on himself he could be a real good Poster.
>> No. 1870
Whatever good points you might have had were quickly obscured by the fact that you sound just as dumb as the people you're trying to attack.

I mean, goddamn, son.
>> No. 1871
>>1870
That may be so. But i am not here to win a popularity Contest or be liked. I want to call the current problems to everyones attention and try to make the Site a better Place.
Everyone who shuts their eyes and pretends that everything is okay has a real problem.
>> No. 1872
>>1871
Holy shit, dude, if you want to be taken seriously, write in a way that does not paint you as a retard. Proper capitalization would make your text a lot easier on the eyes.
>> No. 1873
>>1868
We've had these threads a million times in the past. It all boils down to the same shit.
As for our plague of shitty new writers, I fear we may be past the point of no return. There are far too many newfags who enjoy those stories to get any support for getting their shit lambasted and removed.
>> No. 1874
You seem to have had an attack of sudden Proper Nouns.

I have nothing else meaningful to contribute at this moment in time.

It's a nice Marisa, anyway.
>> No. 1875
>>1868
The Bussiness story isn't that bad at all. The writer's evened out the rough moments. Now the Joe story... it's a guilty pleasure, though I think he lets anon get away with too much stupidity. The Falcon story? Pure shit.

But I think the main outbreak occurred due to the linking of certain stories to /tg/, which resulted in said stories getting the cream of /tg/ and everywhere else... yeah.

>>1869
You Know Me~ actually has a story in /forest/, though he was namefagging before he started. It's a bit of a mindfuck though.
>> No. 1876
Oh so it's that time of the year again. Why can't newfags lurk and assimilate before spreading shit. Problems with the OP though:

>(his Story is like what YAF wrote back when he first started. If you read it you know what i mean.)

YAF's first story was an amazing bit of comedy what the hell are you talking about. He went to shit after he started taking it seriously after the first TS.

>As you can see that most people on IRC already are not interested anymore.

You idiots complain when IRC meddles in site affairs AND when it doesn't? Hart was banned from IRC twice for being an idiot and he's still mocked for acting retarded. Solve your own problems without blaming an unrelated party.
>> No. 1877
It struck me I should say something, again.

In defense of TwittyandStrange: While he's not the best writer ever, he is constantly trying to improve, and isn't a douche about it either.

And You Know Me~ writes some mean fairy in /forest/. It shows promise.

I'll end by dropping off something to consider.


What, really, is this site about? What are we here to do?


Answers may vary, etc.
>> No. 1878
>>1876

He meant the grammar, methinks.
>> No. 1879
>>1873
Most of these newfags don't even start stories, just post shitty posts.

As far as Hartman, he got chewed out by IRC a good number of times and hopefully he's learning his lesson.

As of right now, IRC is spazzing out over this topic
>> No. 1880
>>1872
>cares for proper english more than the horrible state of the site.
Way to go.
>> No. 1881
>>1880
People not using proper English is one of the reasons why the site is so shit right now.
>> No. 1882
>>1881
>Site is so shit

Oh god not this shit again... with as all the effort that people spend spazzing over this, they could be used towards updates and nice new stories.
>> No. 1883
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1883
>What, really, is this site about? What are we here to do?

What is love?



...I'm sorry. I couldn't help it. As for an actual response to your question, I can't quite come up with a good answer, but I can tell you what I'm almost certain we're not here to do, and that is discouraging people from doing.

By this I of course mean discouraging people from trying to do bigger things with their stories by consistently defending terrible votes and CYOAs.

I don't know about everyone else, but as a writer, I find it quite disheartening when someone dismisses complaints about bad plot and characterization in a story because "this is just fanfiction". Certainly, we might not be writing classical literature here, but the structural underpinnings of a well-written story in THP are the same as a well-written piece of published fiction. If a story follows these tenets, it can be utterly light-hearted, pointless fluff and still leave the reader completely satisfied.

By "these tenets", I of course mean a strong cast of characters coupled with an engaging plot and a good grasp of technical style.

When we claim that none of these things are needed, since this is just fanfiction (an argument often brandished in defense of overwhelmingly immature votes or badly written stories), we not only demean the writers who want to try harder than the usual fare; we also lower the standards of the site itself by claiming that, merely by virtue of genre, we deserve no better than stuff like, say, Average Joe.

...ugh, I'm ranting now. But I think there's a good point in there somewhere.
>> No. 1884
>>1883

Baby don't hurt me, no more.

I agree with votes- learning when to step in and "hell no, that would be stupid" is an important skill as a writer.

But CYOAs? That becomes a dangerous slope, a slippery ground.

Because, you see, this is greatly subjective. Sure, you can say, "this is shit!" and have a lot of people agree with you. But you can also have a lot of people disagree with you.

The reverse happens too, with people calling the stories you like and read shit.

Once you pass technical quality, there are far fewer standards of quality.

And personally, I feel the site needs a "doing whatever the hell you want run rampant" story every so often. Invigorates people, or something like that.

Now, if only I could hammer out essay drafts like this...
>> No. 1885
Elitists vs Idiots.

...I'm not liking either side of this debate.
>> No. 1886
>>1885

A rare meta-elitist appears!
>> No. 1888
>>1885
Why is being an elitist a bad thing?
>> No. 1890
You do have a point, and I'll admit that very subjectivity is why I'm not too keen on how some anons push for sagebombing and banning people left and right - it can always turn into an excuse to get people to destroy stories that a few personally dislike, to the detriment of the rest of the site.

However, while no one can account for subjectivity, we can do something about stories and votes that don't pass the technical test (such as Hartmann's stories, though thankfully he drove himself out, courtesy of his amazingly thin skin). And, again, we can avoid the attitude that just because this is fanfiction we can't achieve (or aren't worthy of) stories that are more than pointless, transitory entertainment.

So yeah. I suppose moderation's what I'm pushing for.
>> No. 1891
>I don't think any touhou bitches this much...
Huh. When did the title change?

Someone mentioned cross-site linking. Found references to a wizard is you on some spacebattles site, and a lot of tweets directly referencing stories on a now-defunct twitter account.

>Site is so shit
The site isn't shit yet. Damn near everything seems to be going downhill lately, but THP certainly isn't unbrowsable yet.
>> No. 1892
>>1890

For no reason but to nitpick, Hartman's first story was actually kind of good, grammar aside. Short, to the point(?), and had an interesting concept.

More significantly: I agree with what you are saying- there's no reason to hold them back from becoming great.

But what about those stories that are never meant to be anything but transient entertainment? Something to amuse, to while away some time, written by authors looking for a hobby, not an apprenticeship.

Something to ponder upon.
>> No. 1893
>>1884
True about the more rapmpant stories, those are a nice change up from the more serious plots of other stories, just as long as anon knows that voting in that would end badly in other stories.

>>1889
True, if someone posts like a retard, they should get called out on it, same with any outright so bad it's horrible story. If my opinion was anything to go by, that Falcon story would be among them.

I'd be against the any attempt at killing whatever 'guilty pleasure' stories there are because sometimes you just need something like that.
>> No. 1894
>but THP certainly isn't unbrowsable yet.
>yet
This. It is not bad YET. Actions need to be taken now before this site will be really shit.
Just look at /jp/. No one gave a fuck and now it is a shithole.
We can't do anything, the newfags refuse, are unwilling or are too stupid to change.

Don't do the same mistakes as the mods of /jp/: Do Nothing.
>> No. 1895
>>1891
I think Teruyo was responsible for the name change; that or HY's ghost.

And it was remarked in the story that some /tg/ folks were involved.
>> No. 1897
A huge part of the issue probably owes to the inherent problem of image board nature of this site.

If you're not familiar with the Great Internet Fuckwad Theory, it states that people become bigger assholes/idiots online due to the anonymity given to them. Image boards just add another massive layer to this because then you don't even have the stigma of being hated by the community because it won't know whether or not somebody's you unless you specifically say so.

The obscurity of this site helped curtail the flow of idiots, but it's a double-edged sword. It also helped curtail the inflow of quality posters as well.
>> No. 1898
Bah. I like the falcon story.
>> No. 1899
>>1894

So, what do you suggest we do?
>> No. 1901
>>1894
People are calling out the particularly bad voters and as far as the writers; they have their fans, even the Falcon guy.
>> No. 1902
>>1899
Not that guy.
One of our only success against writer faggotry, and idiocy in general, was the J to the E scandal. We can make clear in absolution, that the person is unwelcome here.
Personally, I'm against this. It's mean, and in our current state, unnecessary. J E had to go, as he was universally reviled on the site. The new crop of writers, though, have their fans, and they actually have some redeeming qualities.

As to fixing the issues of shitty readers. I am undecided. We can sage, while informing them of the correct demeanor they should carry themselves in, forcefully, if needed. But that has the unintended affects of shitting up worthy threads.
>> No. 1903
>>1868
Hate to break it to you but some people aren't looking for serious CYOA stories. Why would even want to read something if you can't even make a single joke in a post without being banned for it.
>> No. 1904
>>1903
Because the jokes are starting to be on the level of HURR DURR *KNIFED* PAD PAD PAD. BUSES IN GENSOKYO.
I have seen instances of every single one of these in the last few weeks. These are not jokes. These are pure shit being posited onto the site.
>> No. 1905
>>1904
Ok lets get rid of all the non serious posts. Oh boy there goes over half the site. Hmm will that make people really want to post stuff if it'll just get deleted. In fact that pretty much would destroy this whole topic as well. If you really want to be serious about stuff then become a moderator and do something about it. Don't complain because your unable to do anything.
>> No. 1906
>>1905
There is a subtle difference between making a joke, and vomiting on your keyboard. It is clearly a lesson you haven't learned.
>> No. 1907
>>1905

omg, i know, rite? don't like don't read
>> No. 1908
>>1906
Nah thats what your doing for me. You see when I read the stories I just watch what other people choose to do. After all its more fun that way since you can laugh at anon's decisions knowing you had no part in them and therefore can rage without realizing it could be your own fault.
>> No. 1909
So anon is suddenly getting stricter about what should be posted on boards? That could make it so people might be less willing to write their stories/update them or even start new ones. This whole idea could quite possibly kill the site if people aren't careful.
>> No. 1910
>>1908
You have chosen to take the most daming action, and you dare show contempt? Doing nothing is the absolutely worst thing you could do. It shows you have no compassion, and no regards as to the quality of the site you visit.

Because, as we now know, "lol I had nothing to do with it, there are all just giant fags loldurp." The board is steadily being bombarded with newfags, and you sit on the sidelines, spewing vomit at the people valiantly trying to increase the overall quality around here? You are the worst sort of poster. Worse than J to the E. Get out of here, you rapscallion.
>> No. 1911
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1911
>>1907
>> No. 1912
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1912
>>1910
Hey hey hey now everyone entitled to their own opinion under the constitution and due to the anonymity of the internet. You don't have to get angry and comment about how others are simply stating their views on things. Besides you made a few typos there.
>> No. 1913
>>1912
>everyone entitled to their own opinion under the constitution

You are so fucking stupid it hurts.
>> No. 1914
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1914
>>1907
>don't like don't read

Oh boy, I knew I would get to use this image some day.
>> No. 1915
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1915
Oh god I just can't stop looking at this thread.

Pic related.
>> No. 1916
I dunno. I like On the Business End and Just an Average Joe. They have their moments and are a good way to vent off stupidity.
But I can't deny that they brought a certain kind of... people.
I don't think the solution would be to ban them. Maybe they should a chat with the rest of the writers. Do those two go to IRC? That fucking place might be able to do some good after all.
>> No. 1917
>>1916

>That fucking place

You mean the cabal, right?
>> No. 1918
Tell me if I get it wrong, but OP is saying that "we" (newfags to be short), are bringing our friend, and are writing shitty stories.
I can't really deny the fact that my stories sucks, but at least, I'm trying to improve.
About the fact that we "brought" friends, I answer that's BS.

Basically, you're annoyed because newfags are using Danbooru's mèmes.
If it bothers you that much, don't say it in blue. Write some rules or something like that.

Of course, thoes newfags are guilty too.
Not lurking enough, not reading the best stories, blah blah blah...
But they (we?) are like that. They (we?) won't change by themselves. If you want to change them, ask them. Don't open a thread, just to whine, especially in /blue/

Someone told me that THP's policy was "get better or get out". I hope this policy is still alive. I've been on many website, and I know that they can die very easily. Let's fix this minor trouble.
>> No. 1919
>>1918

Well, it's hard to tell what he's saying, given how badly he massacred the English language.
>> No. 1920
>>1916
I think what happened is the crap of the /tg/ crop came, and saw DtRT and Joe and assumed that was the status quo. That's the only thing that could make sense.
>> No. 1921
>>1919
My english may not be the same as it once was but it is enough to bring the message over. And that is what counts, bring problems to everyones attention and find solutions for said problems.

The Site was always had it's own rules and people stepped up and did something when something went wrong. Showed new people the way, kicked or drove out the ones who are too stupid and so on. But these days there is only Apathy. Before someone tries something he says ah, what the hell.

!H8UfLAg.DQ probably said it best if you don't want to read what i wrote.
>> No. 1922
>>1918
>About the fact that we "brought" friends, I answer that's BS.
Even if you specifically did not bring in any friends, typically people will bring in others. "Hey guys I found this cool site! Check it out!", or even worse "Hey fellow fanfiction writers/readers, I have begun writing on this cool site! It's interactive! Please vote in my story". The last part is the absolute worst because it results in a self-sustaining community of people within the author's threads; the threads practically become their own site, and then they also spill over and inevitably shit up the remainder of the site. And then you get defenses like
>they have their fans, even the Falcon guy
Perhaps the fans have been on the site for a long time. Perhaps the fans are people that joined the site specifically for the story. There's unfortunately no real way to know.
>> No. 1923
>>1922

Then it's time we did something, right?
>> No. 1924
>>1922
Are you saying that you don't want any newcomer here? As far as I know, all my recommendation linking to this website were perfectly ignored.

And, knowing all of you better, if I have to recommend some stories, I'll recommend finished stories, like MiG, WuiG, or aSSM.
>> No. 1925
>>1924
When you say you recommend stories, we have no way of knowing where you do such things, nor the level of posters involved on said sites with the links.

For all we know, you could be talking about linking these place to Gaia.
>> No. 1926
>>1924
Newcomers are fine, as long as they're good. Since we can't possibly just filter out all the bad people, lets go by the manageable "Newcomers are fine, as long as they lurk".

The specific problem with newcomers I mentioned is when they come specifically for one story or set of stories that are already against the status quo. I mentioned it earlier; see >>106.
>> No. 1927
>>1926
>"Newcomers are fine, as long as they lurk".
This is precisely the problem right now. They are coming in droves, and they aren't lurking. Wiser anons have to spend valuable board space driving home the point that their idiotic actions are not welcome here, and that they need to shape up.

Problem is, some of them are so goddamn stupid that they don't see any trouble. A person even told me that he sees no problems with *actions* after specifically being told not to do as such.

To this end, I would propose auto-bans on *actions*, and emoticons. This would eliminate the need for everyone telling the newfags to shape up.
>> No. 1928
>>1922
the second is far worse, especially if it's a story with niche concepts while the former varies on the site/group being linked.
>> No. 1929
>>1925
If it's touou fanfic, why would I link them to "Gaia" (whatever the hell is it)?
>> No. 1930
>>1929
>If it's Touhuou fanfic, why would I link them to "/tg/"

You tell me. People do stupid things sometimes.
>> No. 1931
I like how pretty much everyone that's complaining about this stuff is violating the fourth rule posted in the rules tab on the main page.
4) TAKE IT EASY.
>> No. 1932
>>1931
We're talking about how to get rid of the things that make it impossible for us to take it easy.
>> No. 1933
>>1931

This is /blue/. It exists so people can discuss things that make them angry without infringing on the other boards' right to that rule. Hell, it's even in the *title* now. Alternatively,>>1932.
>> No. 1934
Oh boy oh boy, this thread looks to mean that I could do something with my mod powers more than just cruise for votespam and normal spam!

Of course, I'm not going to just go off and purge stories/writers on a whim, at least give them a chance to get better, but in my absence of late, I've come back to see that there are some new 'faces' around for sure. All I have to say is that if I do see any more people acting like that Random anon faggot that was shitting up the place a few days back, I will ban them without question.

You guys want to help the site by 'correcting' the newcomers behaviour? Report them. Report the emoticons, *actions*, other unwelcome shit that they do, and tell them why what they do isn't acceptable here. If they get the message and get better, that's great. If they get indignant and persist, I'll have their IPs and can just delete their unwanted posts, or temp ban them with a warning as to why they're banned. If they never come back, well, that's too bad, but if they reform, then the community grows. It just wastes everyone's time to try to explain why someone is doing something unacceptable when they refuse to acknowledge that they could be in the wrong.

Of course, a sticky in /gensokyo/ or at least a post of some sort outlining the 'acceptable behaviour' guidelines could help as well, if it was highlighted in the blotter on every page.
>> No. 1935
>>1934
We could use the report button for that? That's nice to know, I thought about doing that but worried that I'd get banned for "Frivolous reporting" I'll keep that in mind the next time the morons start acting up.
>> No. 1936
>>1935

I see it as a measure to clean up the site. I'm giving my backing to this course of action, so if it is still 'frivolous reporting', then I'll take the blame for suggesting it in lieu of other solutions completely in the hands of the users. I'm behind helping straighten out newcomers because if we get more dumbshits like Random anon, I'll go nuts.
>> No. 1939
>>1936
>>1934
Well that's that. Threads over.
What would be your policy on reported older posts? Say, for example, a vote with *actions* in it, that was a few days old?
>> No. 1940
>Of course, a sticky in /gensokyo/ or at least a post of some sort outlining the 'acceptable behaviour' guidelines could help as well, if it was highlighted in the blotter on every page.

For what it's worth, this is probably a very good idea. Putting this up will make enforcing quality easier, as we can tell instantly which people can't be bothered enough to look for the rules. I will say as a relative newcomer that it is not easy to tell what is and is not accepted without extensive browsing of the entire site, and a post or sticky like this would probably help a lot. At the very least, adding these details to the rules tab on the front page would mean that people who cared enough about the rules would be able to see them instantly.

And for people who don't care about said rules, we get to unleash the banhammer instantly on people who violate said guidelines, seeing how they have already been preemptively warned.
>> No. 1941
Regarding the poor story quality complaints,
Maybe we could use some sort of /IC/ like board where writers wanting to improve\see if they are good enough can post storys and get critique?
>> No. 1942
You know this site has fallen when there's a fucking Walfas picture as a thread starter. What the hell happened to having standards?
>> No. 1943
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1943
>>1924
>I'll recommend finished stories, like MiG, WuiG, or aSSM.
>finished
>WuiG

See picture.

>>1941

If writers aren't getting critique in their own threads they're not about to get any in other threads.
This is part of the problem regarding quality. Anonymous is happy to read damn-near everything, regardless of how terribly low the quality is. You then have authors getting bullheaded because they never hear any criticism and when somebody does offer some constructive criticism you either get that writer's fans jumping to his defense because he could never possibly do any wrong (ala HY), or you get people that refuse to listen to any criticism and improve (ala Hartmann).

Anons need to be far less reserved with their problems. If a story has a lot of a mistakes then tell the author to use a spellchecker. If you can't tell what the hell is going on then let the author know.
The authors can only get so much better when they're not getting any input.
>> No. 1944
>Maybe we could use some sort of /IC/ like board where writers wanting to improve\see if they are good enough can post storys and get critique?
As has been pointed out in the past, this is not a site for training writers to become better. People are certainly allowed to give criticism, but they should never need to. Something like /IC/ would require people willing to give criticism to be effective.

Plus there's the whole Dunning-Kruger effect, where you'd probably end up with the incompetent jumping straight to writing.
>> No. 1945
>>1939

The only reason I haven't already banned the Random anon fag is because by the time I saw his posts, it had been about 3-4 days or so and he seemed to hold true to his intent to integrate silently into the rest of the site and not needlessly stir up shit. Of course, since he has caused a huge shitstorm once already by being a faggot, if he starts up the same shit again, he's gone.

I'd say for older things, if they haven't already been informed of why it's not acceptable, then do so if you see them do it again. They may have wised up since then. This measure is largely about dealing with the folks that feel the need to shrug off suggestions on behaviour and continue acting in a way that annoys others.

For best effect as well, it would probably be best to be civil when informing the offenders of the breaches of conduct they're responsible for. That way, they're less likely to respond negatively and continue to persist in their behaviour out of spite, and more likely to take it seriously. As well, if a courteous mention to straighten out their behaviour is brushed off or disregarded, it's much clearer that they're refusing to adopt to the customs by their own judgment and not because of being ill informed of the standards, and thus easier to punish them for their continued behaviour.
>> No. 1946
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1946
>>1934
>Report them. Report the emoticons, *actions*, other unwelcome shit that they do.

I have been waiting to hear a mod say that for so long.

Thank you.
>> No. 1947
>>1946
Please restrain yourself. I presume this is not cart-blanche to report absolutely everyone you do not like. We are not /jp's/ autismal band of wandering reporters.
>> No. 1948
>autism
Can we not bring that shit over either?
>> No. 1949
>>1934
>>1936
>I'm behind helping straighten out newcomers
>Report the emoticons, *actions*, other unwelcome shit that they do, and tell them why what they do isn't acceptable here.
Once again Mode proves that he is the right man for the right job.
I fully support this and i support you. No one will ever say you did something wrong.
>> No. 1950
>>1946

Not to say that they're all going to be punished immediately, but it'll help me to see these posts people have issues with, and I can see the IPs of people making them to provide a handy reference for keeping track of individual users behaviours rather than having to rely on guesswork and assumptions. So far there's been 4 reports, and two of them were already deleted on account of them being Random anon pointlessly complaining and then posting to disregard the previous post instead of just deleting them. The other two I'm probably going to clear, since I can use them as examples in a way right now.

>>/eientei/22711

This one was reported for 'provocation'. While it's true, it's still criticism against Hartmann and I'd feel it would be unfair censorship to delete it. After all, people should be able to voice their issues, and if a writer is getting criticism for their writing, it's probably necessary for them to see such things so they're driven to improve. If they never see complaints against them, they'll never have the idea they should try harder. Hartmann already quit once and then returned from what I recall, I just think he might need some more guidance on how to improve. If he fails to, though, then there's nothing that can be done and he'd likely get chased off again for good.

>>/border/24364

The other is just a report on a comment following a vote made after a small argument in the thread. I just see it as someone disregarding other people's squabbles, so it's not something that really deserves to be moderated. Given the context, that poster is probably trying to interrupt what could end up being a fairly lengthy argument on the moral ramifications of loli sexing. Granted though, looking through some of his past posts...

I think I should probably get on that post for behavioural guidelines and reporting practices sometime soon.
>> No. 1951
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1951
>my face when the majority of the bitching in this thread is being done by the IRC clique that doesn't use the site and looks down on the people who do.
>> No. 1952
File 128926127372.jpg - (29.70KB , 323x445 , butbachwasaprettycoolguytoo.jpg ) [iqdb]
1952
>>1951
>my face when you actually believe in some sort of IRC conspiracy
>> No. 1953
>>1951
Yes, of course. The IRC is to blame. They're clearly the only ones bitching about the state of the boards. All their claims are unwarranted and completely baseless, I'm sure.

I mean, it can't be that they actually do browse the boards and are worried about the state of the site, right? That's completely ridiculous. That nefarious IRC, plotting to stab Anonymous in the back!
>> No. 1954
File 128926189648.jpg - (41.15KB , 400x300 , 1283793621758.jpg ) [iqdb]
1954
>>1952
>implying that IRC is not the Force that controls everything happening on this Site.
>> No. 1955
File 128926189743.png - (75.91KB , 412x339 , Charface.png ) [iqdb]
1955
>>1952
>my face when you think IRC users aren't stirring shit up in this thread
>> No. 1956
>>1953
>it can't be that they actually do browse the boards and are worried about the state of the site, right?

See >>1014.
>> No. 1957
File 128926302463.jpg - (44.00KB , 400x480 , (emily dickinson's face).jpg ) [iqdb]
1957
>my face when IRC users shit up the thread by pretending to be people mocking people who don't believe there are IRC users shitting up the thread
>> No. 1958
>>/gensokyo/6052

Alright then. From now on, refer suspected newfags to this thread, and let them see it. I'll see if I can't have some kind of blotter update posted or something so it's easier to access and harder to miss.
>> No. 1959
File 12892676957.png - (56.68KB , 450x450 , 1241290122913.png ) [iqdb]
1959
>> No. 1960
D'aww. I liked the new title.
>> No. 1961
A few months of lurking accompanied by the same courtesy given to friends and family makes for an unnoticable entrance to THP. That, and reading at least one of its completed works.
>> No. 1963
File 128927994594.jpg - (38.76KB , 364x442 , 1287200874140.jpg ) [iqdb]
1963
>>1951
>>1955
>>1956

>my face when I find a proxy used to stir up shit
>> No. 1969
On the topic of pointless bitching about THP not being our super secret club anymore due to a newfag invasion, I've got a request. Whoever linked 'A Wizard Is You' on TFF, fucking stop that shit. TFF is the last place we want coming here. Have you really not seen how often threads get derailed and shitstorms get started there?
>> No. 1971
>>1969
TFF? What site is that?

But the problem isn't so much newfags, just that they're fucking stupid.
>> No. 1972
>>1971
I suspect it is not this site: http://www.texasfishingforum.com/
>> No. 1973
>>1972
>>1971
I assume it is The Fanfiction Forum.
Like this site, it was a bastion of good fanfiction (but of all kinds).
Now it is nothing but a hive of retards and faggots who think they are elite.
>> No. 1974
>>1972
I wouldn't mind a Story about fishing Texas Style.
>> No. 1975
>>1973

Mind you, TFF, though fun as hell in its heyday, was pretty stupid and meme-ish even before it started its decline.

It's just that now it's stupid, meme-ish, *and* filled to the brim with pretentious, autistic know-it-alls.
>> No. 1976
Not sure if you all have seen this yet:

http://archive.easymodo.net/cgi-board.pl/jp/thread/6412275

I found this by accident as I was searching the archive. Is this evidence enough for you mods to take direct action against this user, or is THP in such a bad state that we need to count "people" like this among our numbers?

And for anyone who entertains even the faintest doubts as to whether it's the same kid and isn't afraid of his/her IQ falling a few points:

http://archive.easymodo.net/cgi-board.pl/jp?task=search2&ghost=&search_text=&search_username=random+anon&search_tripcode=&search_del=dontcare&search_i
nt=dontcare&search_ord=rel
>> No. 1977
>>1976
I think they already banned him for being retarded somewhere else.

Fortunately, /jp/ isn't big on raids.
>> No. 1978
>>1977
Thankfully, he wasn't smart enough to try on /a/, or, god-forbid /b/
>> No. 1979
>>1976
He was warned not to keep doing his shit. If he does, more punitive measures will be taken but otherwise there's no reason to go beyond what we've done yet.

I haven't said anything in this thread yet, since I thought it important that the users work things out amongst themselves. I don't believe that top-down enforcement of posting culture works very effectively. Those in charge are never perfect nor can they be everywhere at once. It's important that the users police the site for quality and moderators play a supportive role. This isn't to say that people should sage bomb things they find abhorrent but they should point out that a poster is doing something wrong and tell them to correct it. If it's disruptive enough, then moderators ought to get involved.

When it comes down to an author or poster doing it wrong, they can't learn unless they either lurk more or are told otherwise. The great thing about the internet is that you can ignore stuff you don't want to see. In regards to shitstorms, it's my personal belief that it's up to the author to say enough is enough; The readers then either stop or, if they don't, mods clean house. So yeah, mods shouldn't be asked to overstep their bounds by being the sole arbiters of what's good or not. This is a site that features exclusively user-generated content and so the users are the ones who set the culture.

There's always the report button for when idiots don't get the message. And as long as reports aren't for stupid things like someone with just a different opinion, they're valid.

tl;dr Mode has it right, use common sense and take it easy
>> No. 1980
>>1973
>>1975
Wow it really sounds like this site at times as even back in the 'glory' days, fanon memes were used a good deal. But even now it has its bright spots, but stay clear of IRC as that has the highest amount of pretentious faggotry.
>> No. 1981
>>1976

He's already gotten a one day ban for being a massive faggot and referring to himself, trying to singlehandedly claim himself to be a newfag apocalypse.

If he keeps at his stupid shit, his ban will be permanent.
>> No. 1982
>>1980

Something tells me you're from TFF. Yes, this place has its downsides, but the faggotry where you come from is on a completely different level. Pretty much any and every active board (or thread, for that matter) is in a constant state of either derailment or shitstorm, only the shit they argue about is even more inane. I'm talking type-moon powerlevel stuff, only unlike the powerlevel threads on /jp/, these fags take themselves seriously. Whenever I go there nowadays, it's only to take a very (VERY) quick glance at any update threads. The state of it makes me feel something like a mix of sadness, loathing and exasperation.

Also, I can certainly buy IRC being full of faggotry, but pretension? The few times I've been there it seems like the usual circlejerking you see in any irc channel.
>> No. 1983
>>1982
The circlejerking isn't even the type most people think of when they think of internet circlejerking, you won't find much anybody gushing over someone elses work, or showering them with admiration. It's more the bored, idle banter and chat type of thing. Oh, and dicks. For some reason we can't get enough of those.
>> No. 1984
>>1982
/jp/ as you see it now is not the same as it was back when we left the board.
I got permabanned from /jp/ for saying loli is good.
>> No. 1985
>>1984
Preposterous. I say that all the time, and I never get banned. I even saw an Investment Banker thread about a week ago that lasted till auto-sage. That must have been a fluke, dude.
>> No. 1986
http://boards.4chan.org/jp/res/6437950

[x] Permaban this kid.
>> No. 1987
>>1986
Just saw that also. It is incredibly obvious that random anon is an unrepentant faggot. He will continue to "spam" and be a sack of shit forever.

[x]Permaban at first sight.
>> No. 1988
I feel I should also post the idiocy in question, lest the thread get deleted by the janitor before the mods can see it. (And are too lazy to go to the archive)

>Invade THP. http://www.touhou-project.com/
>make crappy ass posts on /th/ and /sdm/ boards wih bad grammer and usless rage.
>make users think its a shitstorm of newfags.
>give a hint as to who it is.
>get banned.
>use a simple proxy to post the next day http://headishead.com/
>continue.
>> No. 1989
>>1988
To be short, we were manipulated?
GODAMN TROLL!
>> No. 1991
Absolutely no-one was manipulated. This was the work of a random anonfaggot who got butt-devestated that he was banned. Nothing came of it because he is a massive retard. Though I suspect you already know that, Random Anon.
>> No. 1992
Mods, could you possibly consider a rangeban?
>> No. 1993
>>/th/129205

Victoly.
>> No. 1994
>>1993
Today is a great day. Now we just need to somehow keep banning him when he comes back with a proxy.
>> No. 1995
>>1989
>>1991

So far he's tried to pretend to be other people and claim himself the sole origin of the faggotry, all the while shitposting on /jp/ for about a week now trying to start an invasion. No doubt that he's going to get the heavy hammer rather than just the single IP ban he's got currently, but I don't really know how range IP bans work, though it'd be handy for handling proxies he's sure to come back crying with.
>> No. 1996
>>1995
Keep up the good work, it's appreciated.
>> No. 1997
File 128962049135.jpg - (10.89KB , 215x269 , 1253959422896.jpg ) [iqdb]
1997
>>1986

I fucking lol'd.

Butthurt of this magnitude shouldn't be possible.
>> No. 1998
>>1993
At least you should delete all the shitposts in this thread. It makes the Writer sad.
>> No. 2000
>>1998
Why not erase this whole thread?
>> No. 2001
>>2000

It's /blue/. This place is shitpost central; might as well ask for the whole board to be nuked.
>> No. 2002
File 128974795437.jpg - (57.75KB , 900x600 , Cronotrigger.jpg ) [iqdb]
2002
To get this thread back on topic:

The mods have been a great help in getting the terrible new users under control, but there is
still the problem of the writers.

The wizard story and the knight story are both badly written wish fullfillment fantasies that stink of /tg/ and feature what are basically mary sue MCs.

On the business end is as stylistically bad as the above two and has the added problem of centering the story around two retarded OCs.

The falcon story and Average Joe are down there with the worst of fanfiction.net and should be run off the board with all haste. They're painfully bad.

Let me conclude this by saying that before someone comes in here and tries to argue for inaction again, we should reflect on these words from when people were defending J to E:

"...it's really not our fucking job to critique. We're not training writers, here, we're reading stories, and if your story isn't any good, we don't want you."

Stop ignoring or tolerating what's ruining the site and take action.
>> No. 2003
>>2002

>wizard story
>badly written

You're going to need some proof for that before you'll be taken seriously.
>> No. 2004
>wizard story
>ruining the site

Yeah, no.
>> No. 2005
>>2002
While I agree on most counts (Though I can't comment on the knight story, for I haven't read it.) I must respectfully disagree on the wizard story. While the MC is definitely subpar, (definite mary-sue factor going on.) the other characters are quite nicely written and the style and ambience given throughout are quite enjoyable. I'd like to see him try a story sometime with a more normal MC.

Couldn't agree further with "business end" though. The writing is atrocious, MC is "so random lol" yet plot feels like it's attempting to be serious, in the most ham-handed way possible. It boggles the mind how it manages to stay on the front page and sour the view.
>> No. 2006
>>2005
You'd rather have a weakling MC that always has to have Touhou escort lest he gets killed by a dog youkai or the lake?
>> No. 2007
>wizard story
>badly written
Demetrious may come over a bit strange/YAFish and the MC is an overpowered rude fuck. But i guess that Wizards from there are supposed to be like that. So it is not like Average Joe and Business Trip where they are just like that.
>One Knight in Gensokyo
Karesh may not be the best Writer or a good one at the moment but he can learn and improve. He is a nice guy and is open to critique. Why not let him get experience and point out mistakes so that he can build up on this instead of driving him out?
>Business end, The falcon story
Nothing to add to this. I already said to ban him. But i believe he will quit soon anyway. His Readers are running away. No Wonder.
>Average Joe
I am not sure about that anymore. In the beginning it used to be good but then he shit it up with idiotic things that would only make a 12 year old laugh. Lately it is not that idiotic anymore and i hope that he can find back to how he once wrote. Plus his Readers are running away too because it is not beat up Youkai, sex her, beat up Youkai, sex her etc. That was really painful to read.

We should try to give people who have a chance to improve and are willing to do so a chance and help them to get better Users and Writers for the Site instead of kicking them out. Only the ones who are shit we should tell to get the hell out. That is why i said We not I. Like the Mods said, the People are the driving force here.
>> No. 2008
>>2002
>Let me conclude this by saying that before someone comes in here and tries to argue for inaction again, we should reflect on these words from when people were defending J to E:
>"...it's really not our fucking job to critique. We're not training writers, here, we're reading stories, and if your story isn't any good, we don't want you."
>Stop ignoring or tolerating what's ruining the site and take action.

What you're quoting doesn't match the rest of what you're saying. "We are not critics" was never a defense of J to the E. It's a basic fact; this site is not intended for making people better writers, so while we may (and will) criticize we are in no way obligated to, and certainly not to provide criticism beyond a simple "shit sucks and I hope you die".

As an aside, why the fuck do people keep using > for everything except quoting people?
>> No. 2009
I have to disagree about Business End.
Perhaps it was a little dumb at the beginning, at the writer tried to improve several times. The story we're dealig with now isn't the random story introducing an overpowered Mary Sue anymore.

Story can change with time. If you're judging a story just by reading the first thread, then you aren't doing your proper job as a critic.

(PS: No offense, no troll, but what is "J to E?" I read some stories in this website, and I didn't saw any post of him, so I can't figure.)
>> No. 2010
>>2009
>but what is "J to E?"

This is J to the E.
http://pastebin.ca/raw/1645781

He wrote a story. It was awful and filled with crossover characters. He was a giant fucktard, and basically had no reason to be on this site except to post his shit story. I believe he once refered to every other story as "girl getters" or some such nonsense, which really just makes you wonder why he started writing in the first place.

You can't find any posts by him because he was run off the site.
>> No. 2011
>>2010

Damn, he sounds horrible. Thank goodness his story isn't on the archives.
>> No. 2012
I can only partially agree on 'A Wizard Is You'. It needs alot of work, but it's not quite bad, either. It has potential, is what I suppose I'm saying.

Haven't checked the falcon story yet, can't comment.

I'm willing to accept One Knight in Gensokyo based on the fact that the author seems open to criticism and is willing to try and improve. It's not like we're talking wiseman, here.

Also haven't checked out business end, can't comment.

Average Joe, however, can die in a fucking fire. 'It's shit' doesn't quite cover it. I haven't commented on it until now due to the fact that it actually seems to have a kind of following, meaning that ruining it and the author off of the site would not be easy.

Also, while I'm here, I would like to ask one thing of whoever is linking to TFF; don't link individual threads, at the very least. If they have to find the next thread of a story on their own, they might stumble across the guidelines thread, and thus NOT act retarded when they spill out onto the rest of the site.

Also also, yes, J to the E was terrible. It was like he just couldn't resist the urge to make a crossover with everything in existence.
>> No. 2013
>>2012
>I would like to ask one thing of whoever is linking to TFF; don't link individual threads, at the very least.

This goes double for the guy linking those same threads on the "[Lets Play]" thread on Rpg.net.
>> No. 2014
>>2006
Weakness has nothing to do with being a Mary Sue.

Wizard is a rude dick (and that's ok), yet his allies are fond of him for no reason whatsoever (which is not). Making your character be liked by others "just 'cuz" is just twiddling the story around to suit that MC. Mary Sue 101 afoot, right there.
>> No. 2015
>>2011
>Thank goodness his story isn't on the archives.

Yeah it is.
>/th/ A New World Fool, Pursuing My True Self? by J to the E [2009/05/15]

If you just want to know how bad it was, >>229 pretty much covers it.
>> No. 2016
>>2006
The MC being strong or popular isn't an issue if the author provides appropriate justification for it. When your PoV is a more capable magician than characters who are very strong magic users in canon, having lived for hundreds of years in a land of the supernatural, there had better be an explanation--a good explanation--for it besides, "lol wizard."

That said, I think we should just keep an eye on the wizard story for the time being and see whether the writer addresses these criticisms.

>>2009
The fact that you don't know about J to E and admit to only having read a few stories makes me wonder if you have enough experience to tell a good CYOA from a bad one.

Okay, so after narrowing down the chopping block somewhat, we still have Average Joe, the falcon story and on the Business End. Does anyone require proof of why these should be driven off, or are we in general agreement about them?
>> No. 2018
>>2016
>Average Joe
That story was great in the beginning, and I maintain that it can become great again. There has been a slew of recent write-ins that attempt to get it back to it's roots.

>falcon story
I don't see the problems everyone is having with this story, to be honest. It's to new and nothing of note has been done to promote the level of hatred it is getting.

>Business End
This story is plain stupid. I don't think we should go as far as trying to axe it though, because Twitty seems like an okay bloke.

To summarize. You guys need to chill out.
>> No. 2019
>>2016
Hang on, I kinda like the falcon story. It's no Lighthouse, but it's hardly one of the top 3 worst stories on the site.
>> No. 2021
>>2002
Just droppin' by to say nice one, champ, you hit the nail right on the crooked head. It's delightful to see there are others on the boards who can tell a pile of bodge apart from proper prose.
I understand some people might enjoy paddling in their little pools of muck, but as a writer, it really grates me when I see them trying to pass it off as decent storywriting. No need to get aggrieved, chaps. If you enjoy the story, that's your problem, not mine - just don't say it has good writing, m'kay? It gives other writers, including me, a bad name, and I do not find that very desirable.
>> No. 2022
>>2002

Hey, I like this post. And a lot of posts under it. You guys are actually being constructive without being bad trolls or raging faggots! A++ on that one.

I'm sure there are other stories apart from what this poster pointed out that need addressing. I haven't been around all that much, but what with all the shit that goes into /th/ those can't be the only stories. For that matter, does anyone even look at the other boards? I'm shocked >>/others/29742 wasn't mentioned.
>> No. 2023
>>2015
There's also >>249 for Wiseman's old shit, which was around the same time as J to the E.
>> No. 2024
File 128977752715.gif - (86.22KB , 596x372 , 127140357213.gif ) [iqdb]
2024
>>2021
pardon me, sir, would you like some peanut butter with that jelly?
>> No. 2025
File 128977800959.gif - (515.24KB , 200x149 , 1289664357267.gif ) [iqdb]
2025
>>2024
Jelly is for kids.
>> No. 2026
File 128977824341.jpg - (94.58KB , 1280x720 , 1289262378669.jpg ) [iqdb]
2026
>>2021
>> No. 2027
>>2016
>When your PoV is a more capable magician than characters who are very strong magic users in canon, having lived for hundreds of years in a land of the supernatural, there had better be an explanation--a good explanation--for it besides, "lol wizard."

I don't think you guys are getting it. The story is showing how even a broken level D&D wizard has trouble dealing with Touhou's ridiculous hax powers like unlimited time-stop, despite amazing them with his wide assortment of almost-as-hax magic. It's worlds colliding and it's hilarious.

Don't think of it as "some mary sue wizard guy" vs Touhou, it's meant to be D&D vs Touhou. Would you rather have a dozen main characters representing D&D mechanics?
>> No. 2028
>>2024

...please tell me you did not just use the "you're just jealous" argument.

Whatever you might or might not hold against YAF is no excuse to pull that shit. That argument's on the same full-retard level as "don't like don't read".
>> No. 2029
>>2028
Just leave it.
>> No. 2030
>>2027
>has trouble dealing with Touhou's ridiculous hax powers
He has not once had trouble with any Touhou. He humiliated Marisa quite handily. He infuriated Sanae to the point of aggression. He won over Keine and Cirno by being "awesome." He threw a childish tantrum at the dining table, and everyone was either impressed or sad about it. Nothing can go wrong for this guy.

As long as /tg/'s neckbeards are the driving force behind him, the trend will only continue, of that I'm sure. He's a Gary Stu.
>> No. 2031
>>2018
>That story was great in the beginning

Nope. Average Joe never suddenly became shit, it WAS shit from the moment it was posted. The difference is that it started out as 'jesus christ this is so horrendously terrible it's actually interesting in a way', but then became 'this is TOO terrible, why hasn't this guy been run off yet'. Neither of those are good things.

I realize that maybe it was supposed to be a kind of parody, but Hat doesn't seem to realize that 'parody' is not an excuse for terrible writing.

My Immortal is, of course, the exception, but that's another story.
>> No. 2032
>>2030
All of which was great except for the tantrum. Even mary sue stories can be entertaining, stop worrying so much about what the story "should" be. Besides, he hasn't even met Reimu or Yukari yet.
>> No. 2033
>>2019
Okay, then in your opinion, what are the top three worst stories on the site? The reason this thread is here is to get rid of stories that are badly written or an embarassment, and your imput would be helpful for that.

>>2018
"Chilling out" is the cause of the current state of affairs on THP. All of you need to stop being so complacent and dependent on the mods' approval to get anything done. Self-moderation is one of our guiding principles, remember? That means when bad writing is giving the site a bad name, you chase it off of the boards.
>> No. 2035
File 128978001073.jpg - (68.90KB , 600x600 , shit stories on the site not allowed.jpg ) [iqdb]
2035
If HY had not left things would be different around here!
>> No. 2036
>>2035

Don't kid yourself. Things would be exactly the same, only he'd be 'trolling' in the form of greentext and tilde.
>> No. 2037
>>2035
No it wouldn't. Things would be the same except we would have one more person complaining about no one on THP really knows about writing and how Anonymous is a retard without doing a damn thing about it.
>> No. 2038
>>2031
I agree with you, which is why I want to add that there is a difference between “good but does not take itself too seriously” and “amusingly awful.” Average Joe firmly belongs to the latter group.

>>2027
What you say about it making some kind of statement would make sense if you forgot about the MC’s interactions and dynamic with the rest cast. Seriously, he reads like a classic mary sue power fantasy.

>>2032
>Even mary sue stories can be entertaining
What, so you can insert yourself into the story and pretend that you're powerful and loved by everyone? Please leave.
>> No. 2039
>>2038
Oh, I guess that's that then. It can't just be that I like watching a guy go around fucking with touhous who do whatever they want and act like they're invincible, right? I don't think stealing books back from Marisa is hilarious, I'm just some caricature of loneliness who wishes he could beat up all the touhous.

I think we've all learned a valuable lesson about the truth inside ourselves, today.
>> No. 2040
>>2021
You of all people shouldn't speak, YAF.

>>2022
Nope, most folks prefer to stay in their niche.

>>2030
Keine was more interested in his knowledge while Cirno was more impressed by awesome after the rough start. Then again she's a fairy and fairies do that. And Keine isn't a blindly lovely dovely towards him, she contrasts his personality in a pleasant way. And Cirno does some keeping in line if he starts staring at an ass too long.

He only handled Marisa and Sanae with the element of surprise.

You also forget that many of the Touhou magician's magic is limited in various regards and that most have other things. Not to mention the fact some of these things are basically trying to 'reinvent the wheel' in terms of magic. None have gone up against say a Beholder in life and death combat. Describing a boast as a tantrum seems rather... daft. Many classic THP leads qualify for Gary Stu.

Now the Joe story... I can't exactly defend it as whatever good it had, it's starting to fall apart. Perhaps some hard criticism directly to Hat is needed.

The Knight story had its rough start, but it's interesting to see where it will go. Knightanon is rather underpowered compared to most non-outsider MCs.

The business story- Sure the writer's made a few mistakes at first and suffered from folks who thought it was just like the Joe story. But he's honestly trying to put things on track.

Falcon story? Too weird for my tastes, but if others are sticking up for it, maybe it's not that bad after all.
>> No. 2041
>>2040
>You of all people shouldn't speak, YAF.

Why, you would be shocked, dear.
>> No. 2042
>>2033
Sounds fine but I remember during the first insistence of /blue/ in action, someone went about sagebombing kriss' story due to the fervor he was caught up in. Who to say something like this won't end up spilling over and affecting good but flawed writers?
>> No. 2043
>>2042
As I recall, in the incidences of sagebombing we've had, the perpetrator has been banned and the posts deleted. It's never been permissible to act like a complete tool and be completely disruptive.
>> No. 2044
File 128978889045.jpg - (106.94KB , 1185x638 , lolwut.jpg ) [iqdb]
2044
Being a Mod is an unrewarding and hard job. No one likes your decisions and you get blamed all the time for whatever people think is shit and wrong.
But hey, at least our current ones are sane. For now.
>> No. 2045
File 128978892950.jpg - (114.50KB , 1188x488 , lolwut2.jpg ) [iqdb]
2045
>> No. 2046
>>2042
You're right to bring up that enacting changes runs the risk of stepping on someone's toes by accident. But, like in the example you cited, the community will intercede if they feel it's out of line and not in accord with the widely held view.

Also, there's no need to resort to bombing their threads straightaway. In my opinion, what we should do first is to give them an opportunity to save face by telling them to leave. We can go from there.
>> No. 2047
Falcon story isn't bad per se, it's just not impressive, plot is vague or nonexistent, and the writing is pretty choppy. Author should just pick himself up and either rein it in, or try again.

Business End and Joe though... bomb from orbit.
>> No. 2049
>>2013

That was me, sorry. I'm the guy who linked Cirno the valiant as well as the first three threads of Wizard there a few weeks back, and I did that while I was still lurking and learning.

Still, I would like to clarify one point: Surely linking individual threads should be acceptable in cases like completed stories like Cirno the Valiant, where the story is buried several pages deep, as long as we highlight the date and warn against necroing, right? Admittedly, I failed to do that when linking said thread back then, but it does seem unreasonable to have people dig through several pages of threads to find a dead/completed story.
>> No. 2050
>>2048
That's what the archives are for.
>> No. 2051
So this is what has been boiling around this thread for a while? Can't believe I never noticed it until now...

Well, after reading through this thread, I want to ask you, anons, about my story. Why do you dislike it? What is your opinions? What can I do to improve? I can't see my flaws if no one brings them up to me. So please, any problems with my stories, bring it up. Don't just say you dislike my story and leave it at that, give me a reason, even if you think it's a silly reason. I won't think any less of you no matter your opinion. And I can't force people to like my story, but if I know the reasoning behind your opinion, at least there can be some sort of understanding, and maybe I can get to improving my story.

And I'm sorry for causing so much problems. I never realized my story got quite a few people angry.
>> No. 2052
>>2051
I'm not one of the people being critical of it in this thread, but I can't help but feel that it was doomed as soon as Anon forced the MC to become Saxton Hale. I think if you would have vetoed that it might have turned out better.

That said I'm sure the others in this thread have other, better criticisms to make.
>> No. 2053
>>2051
For starters, your writing is atrocious and choppy, are you ESL?

>What is your opinions.

A quick skim of that post brings us this.
Subject-verb agreement seems like a foreign concept to you. That is a bad thing.

Is there a plot to the story? I'd wager there isn't, and you're going by the seat of the pants. Some people can manage to fly it that way and still make for an amusing story, but it's not working out for you.

Characters are bland and flat, they seem only to live as statues for the MC's dialogue to bounce off of.

And then we come to the MC himself. It seems you had a vague concept at first, but it wasn't fully fleshed out in your mind and you let your audience fill in the gaps. What's left is a fragmented existence with no identity or personality.

Purge it with fire, pick yourself up, and give it another shot.
>> No. 2054
>>2051
To be short, you should restart another story.

But avoid almighty character like Hale. If someone can defeat a touhou with his bare hands, then Anon will hate him.
The side characters are too... flat. They don't really act on their own, awaiting for Hale to move before doing something. A touhou acting like a dog isn't really good, since we're dealing basically with ubercheated people.

And, the last thing to avoid, is the lack of plot.
Don't take it badly, but reading your story gave me the feeling that you didn't know what to do. Going to Heaven? Repairing the Shrine? Visiting the village? You were just making Hale walking around. A story like this is currently unacceptable.

You're often on IRC, so ask someone who know, like ... well, just ask randomly on IRC how to write a good story. There are people who'll help you.
>> No. 2055
>>2007
>>2012
If there's anything you guys want to point out about my writing please tell me! I'd hate to think there's something I could be doing to make it not terrible that I'm not.
>> No. 2056
>>2053
>>2052
>>2054

I can see quite clearly these aren't just silly opinions. At this point, I am thinking about just resetting the whole thing, though at this point, are there any elements from the old story I should keep or should I really just start completely new, with an entirely new story, or just reset the story back to the start?
>> No. 2057
>>2056
Bringing a businessman into Gensokyo was original. Perhaps not brilliant, but original. Your mistake is that you didn't made him act like a businessman.

I mean, the businessman's cliché attitude is to buy everything and everyone. Instead of that, you made him into Hale, and it was a big mistake.

Here's my advice: end your story. I don't care if it's a stupîd end or whatever, but end your story, and start another one, with a NORMAL businessman.

Gensokyo isn't a land of common sense, which means that the only interesting point is the difference between the outsider's behaviour ("normal" behaviour), and the natives' behaviour ("strange" behaviour). If your Main Character is an outsider, he must be normal, to create a paradox.
If there's no paradox, then there's no story, since the character doesn't have any trouble living in Gensokyo.

That's what I think. Feel free to blame me if I'm wrong somewhere, or if you didn't understood a single thing.
>> No. 2058
>>2057

Actually, that makes a lot of sense. I think the whole business aspect was completely lost by the end of the first thread, if it didn't exist to begin with.

Businessman behavior, build buildings, what not. And yeah, I'll find a way to end the story. Somehow.
>> No. 2059
About the Saxton Hale thing, I was the one who made that write-in, and I agree that it was stupid and out of place. For that, I'm sorry.

I don't even know why I felt compelled to make that write-in either. I had already gotten bored of TF2 by that point.
>> No. 2060
File 128986110232.jpg - (89.26KB , 1079x305 , rahurr.jpg ) [iqdb]
2060
Wow, he's still trying.
>> No. 2061
>>2060

...that's just creepy, now.
>> No. 2062
>>2061

He's clearly not intelligent enough to do this. If he really posted this, then it would be less constructive at the end and more "LOL RANDUM TROLLU!" Yeah.
>> No. 2065
>>2061
>PROBLEM__GENSOKYO__by_DisFable
Googling DisFable brings up a DeviantArt account. Not a big surprise...

Scrolling down a bit on the account shows a section named 'Webcam', which is an animated gif of a guy shoving a dildo up his ass while wearing boxers.

Now it's creepy.
>> No. 2066
File 128987203289.jpg - (80.41KB , 300x400 , haters gonna hate mech2.jpg ) [iqdb]
2066
I was unaware of this whole discussion until somebody on IRC pointed it out and asked for me to address the criticisms, so here I am. Spoilers abound, though nothing terribly plot-specific.

>>2040

Pretty much this.

The Wizard only handled Marisa through sheer element of surprise and speed (improved initiative, yo.) Had he actually eaten a Master Spark, it wouldn't have been pretty. As for his personality; he's not just a dick- he's got severe, severe anger issues, which has been explicitly shown more then once. His propensity for sheer, blinding haterage actually scares Keine (a discussion of which was already scheduled for the next time he displays it, in fact.) Kicking in Maria's door was such an act; though backlash was mitigated by several factors (the fact that Marisa can look after herself, her lying and theft rarely engender sympathy, and the general convention of settling disputes through magical duels,) though it still earned him a swift attack from Sanae, (which he narrowly won, mostly due to Sanae's inexperience and hasty attack.) He succumbed to pride at the SDM dinner (through Anon's voting, natch,) and though his Boast made sure nobody would underestimate him, it made Remilia stop regarding him as a toy and more as a threat, which is going to have consequences down the line. In fact, if he doesn't recognize his problem in time, Youmou is going to pay with her life- as has been explicitly foreshadowed.

Additionally, I was pretty amused to see a classic Icelandic mead-hall boast characterized as a 'tantrum,' but I guess that people who bitch about touhou fanfiction and people who've read Beowulf don't overlap much.

As for his allies liking him- it's not like he's got many, aside from Keine and Cirno. The fairly likes him because he actually gives her the time of day (apparently I'm rare in not writing her as an irritating moron,) though deep down she doubts he means it, or will stick around (recall the conversation they had here >>124804 .)

Keine, on the other hand, likes him because he treats her normally, as an equal. She considers herself human (and, I know it's blasphemous, but heterosexual as well,) and Joe Villager can't comfortably relate or associate as equals with somebody that has super-strength sufficient to twist their head off (to say nothing of her EX-form.) Go figure. So no romance, or even friends, aside from Mokou- and even Mokou is often standoffish because any attachment with mortal beings will eventually bring her anguish, and she knows it.

And then into her life comes Wizard, a lecherous asshole who, nonetheless, isn't intimidated by her at all, and can actually keep up with her intellectually.

Now note that all of the above is taken straight out of the notebook where I've roughly outlined all of this out. The fact that it's popularity has made it burn through many threads might obscure the fact that it hasn't been running very long at all; it's only been recently that regular interaction with characters other then the MC's two immediate friends has occurred (and thus, encounters with people who aren't friendly with him, such as Meiling, whom socked him in the face and pinned him neatly to the wall before Keine intervened.) The excrement is about to meet the rotating air displacement unit, which is when this will be explicitly addressed in the story (most of it's already been hinted at, to the point that more then a few Anons have mentioned it.)

I'm surprised it took so long for the haters to emerge, but then again everything about the response to this story has been a surprise.
>> No. 2067
Hmm I'm going to say this. Instead of discussing about shit that may or may not happen let nature take its course. The Mods became Mods to deal with this situation if they feel someone's breaking a rule or their story isn't up to standards they'll deal with it. That way everyone else on this site can get to what they originally came here to do. Read their fucking stories. Maybe everyone should try and write a story and see how others insult/comment/critique theirs before they start complaining about how others write their stories.
>> No. 2068
>>2067
Same person I forgot to add. You can ban me if you want I just want this bullshit argument to die and for people to move on. After all its sad people can't let things go.
>> No. 2069
>>2067
>>2068
Yeah, don't remove the tumor in your body that's killing you. Let nature run its course, so you fucking die.
>> No. 2070
File 128987354031.jpg - (91.42KB , 650x800 , nowchopinwasjustfuckingdepressingthough.jpg ) [iqdb]
2070
>>2066

>haters
>> No. 2071
>>2067

Are you stupid?

>The Mods became Mods to deal with this situation if they feel someone's breaking a rule or their story isn't up to standards they'll deal with it.

Mods aren't here to bomb the shit out of bad stories, they're here for, you know, actual rule violation. Raids, flooding, multi-voting, guro/cp spam, that sort of thing. 'Dealing' with bad stories is our job. To quote HY from before he took to trolling THP for sport, 'You people used to look after this place with the rule of the ultra-critical mob. Do it again.'

>Maybe everyone should try and write a story and see how others insult/comment/critique theirs before they start complaining about how others write their stories.

So basically, you're saying that if you aren't a writer, you can't complain about bad writing? So if you went to a restaurant and ordered a steak, you wouldn't complain about your order coming out as a slab of barely cooked putrid meat because you aren't a cook?
>> No. 2072
>>2067

I'm going to contest this on the basis that you're ending with a 'let's see you do better before you complain' argument, which is pretty much an entirely baseless argument that couldn't realistically hold up.

If someone is expected to be talented in a field before judging it, then I suppose that would put critics out of business unless they've a past in the field, or are currently employed in such, of whatever they're judging, and even then there's still the issues of whatever personal bias they may bring. People can still criticize things even if they're not a writer by trade or hobby, insofar as they're a consumer of the media/product they're speaking against. Often enough, a consumer will have equal, if not greater, insight into what makes something of quality, as they're on the receiving end, they can make comparisons to other equal products and determine whether or not it's better or worse. I'd imagine that so called 'classic' games, for instance, that many people love are as such because they have long lasting appeal and solid presentation that people can enjoy no matter how old they are, or how long it's been since release, and it doesn't take a professional creator to see these merits. In fact, it would be the opinion of the consumers that, in the long run, determine if a game is worthy of 'classic' status, wouldn't it? It may get attention and praise from official sources, and it might be a technical success for the company by making money, but all of that relies heavily on the audience receiving it. If the audience doesn't like it, it doesn't sell, and it goes down in history as just another game.
>> No. 2076
What I want to know is why everyone's still bitching, whining, giving each other the run-around, and being butthurt instead of getting something done.
>> No. 2078
>>2073
The justification could be that the people they're calling stupid really are stupid.
>> No. 2080
>>2075
>that's not funny my brother died that way

Couldn't resist.

>>2073

He said something stupid. I called him stupid in response. There's not a whole lot to be misinterpreted, here.
>> No. 2081
>>2079
Kind of like what you're doing right now.
>> No. 2082
>>2075

You should feel bad for not being able to recognize sarcasm.
>> No. 2083
File 128988585145.jpg - (31.70KB , 339x548 , 1289274159710.jpg ) [iqdb]
2083
Oh for fucks sake.

If you complain about shit then you should be able to read what is written on the Site.
>> No. 2086
Speaking as an author who does not write here (or even regularly read anything beyond a single story here) I can certainly understand the desire to get rid of bad stories and stop this place from turning shitty. Do something about it. Preferably something other than bitching in a thread no one knows about and then saying 'I told you so' when nothing changes and you're over run with terrible writing.

That said, watch what you get rid of. A lot of the bitching in this thread might be about genuinely awful stories (though not all of them), but a lot of it is also about popular stories. If you want the site to get more members, banhammering popular stuff is a great way not to do it. If you want to stay small and insular, more power to you. Just make sure you're sure before you start kicking off stories that people like.

Take into account though, this is a public story site. If you have good stories on it, they will get linked. That's the point of having a story site, instead of a private webpage. You will get more people. Most of them probably have, at most, a passing familiarity with Touhou. They will be like cancer to your site, but, that's what will ALWAYS happen if you have good shit posted in public.
>> No. 2087
>>2086

I've been around for about two years or so now, and this is the first time I've seen things in this state. I don't know how long the community was around before that, but I'm assuming I ended up here not long after the initial migration.

Every time something has come up that was considered bad by a majority, the stories usually did have a few votes here and there. Granted, there are likely a few people on the site that would read anything and vote without a question, but in this case, I can't help but think a few of the people voting in the 'bad' stories came along at the same time as the authors themselves, or are otherwise unaware of the typical precedent of quality Anon has tried to uphold and enforce.

What needs to be done, is the 'bad writers' need to be informed of their status as such, told why their work is below the bar, and have them improve. If they do in fact improve, then all the power to them, otherwise they're going to find themselves getting run out by Anonymous, and would end up with their threads being deleted if they continue to ignore the criticism and show no genuine attempts at getting better. This all takes time though, so it's not something that can be seen as an immediate result. I'm not going to start deleting story threads at random without first giving the writers themselves a chance to show they're worth keeping around. I consider until at least the end of the year a fair enough length of time for them to hear what they need to improve and work towards it.
>> No. 2088
>>2087
Maybe you should write a Guide for New Writers to help them improve.
That would solve much problems in the Future.
>> No. 2089
>>2088

I'm probably not the best one for that, though. I'd have to defer to someone else to explain such things, and I'd prefer if the pointers could be something that the majority agree with as well. No point in creating a 'guidebook' for new writers when the tips being presented are contested themselves.

Something like that I'd think would be good to have as a joint effort, though personally I think the link in >>/gensokyo/6049 is pretty good advice in general and could serve as a good base.
>> No. 2090
>>2089
I'm writing a guide now. When it's finished, I'll post it in this thread and we can discuss about whether it's helpful or if anything needs to be changed.
>> No. 2091
>>2087

I'm just a no name here, but reading this honestly makes me really worried for this boards future. To me that's the path to hell deleting shit that's nothing but flames or trolling is one thing, but once you start nuking stuff based on things as massively subjective and debatable as if a story is "good" or the writer is "improving" the board is going to wither up and die. Seriously what new author is going to risk writing something if the specter of mod delivered execution hangs over him like the Sword of Damocles if he can’t meet some nebulous and subjective “quality standard”? Let alone one that’s overseen by something as fickle and irrational as anon can be.

And don’t say you don’t need new writers. No writing community can survive long term without new blood as it’s just a fact of life that most authors will, with time, grow bored of retreading the same material and move on. Polices that suppress or dissuade new people from trying the waters are the kiss of death for a writing community.

Also I’ll be honest as a newer denizen having only started reading in the last year or so I can’t help think some rose tinted glasses are being dawned by allot of people. When I look back through the archives at some of the older stories I frankly don’t really see a very discernible difference in overall quality. So to me either A.) People are giving the older stuff more credit then its due, or B.) Expecting newer writers to somehow top the old stuff despite just starting out, and neither of these is reasonable in my view.

The fact of the matter is even though these stories are supposedly so objectively bad people still read and vote on them... why? Well some people seem to be taking the rather irrational view that random people vote for them "just becasue", but it seems rather more likely that the real issue is that bad is subjective and tastes differ. I think the discussion and total inability to agree on the current "worst stories" in this thread makes that clear. For every one guy going “lol shit sux delete” there’s an equal number that disagree. What I get reading this thread is anything but the consensus that would be required to keep story deletion from turning into a massive board spanning shit storm.
>> No. 2092
>Seriously what new author is going to risk writing something if the specter of mod delivered execution hangs over him like the Sword of Damocles if he can’t meet some nebulous and subjective “quality standard”?
You're paranoid. I think a grand total of 3 people have actually been run out, either by the mods or the mobs. While "good" is plenty subjective, it's certainly possible to say that something is objectively bad. Wiseman and J to the E's shit were certainly bad.

>And don’t say you don’t need new writers.
Of course we need new writers. We also need new readers. This is obvious.

The problem is that we don't need new bad writers, and there is no reason why someone who is terrible AND refuses to get better should not get the fuck out; by choice or not.

And some people actually are willing to get better. This is all hearsay as I've never read MikoSpark's stuff, but from what I've gathered the story was originally terrible, but he accepted the criticism and got better.

>The fact of the matter is even though these stories are supposedly so objectively bad people still read and vote on them... why? Well some people seem to be taking the rather irrational view that random people vote for them "just becasue"
I'm sure people do vote on stories just because. Or they see a new story, decide to give it a shot, discover that the story "has promise" but "is lacking in execution"/"the MC is a fucktard"/whatever criticism, and hope that the writer will improve himself over time. And of course the worst one: When someone discovers a new site, there's a damn good chance that he'll tell other people about it especially if he plans on doing something interactive like writing and needs other people to do interactive stuff like voting. And what you get is follower(s) that will vote for a story no matter how bad the other anons think it is, because they are here specifically for that story and quite possibly will not read anything else on the site or notice that other people consider the story to be shit.
>> No. 2093
>>2092

A-fucking-men to that. >>2091, you've got a point - and as with the last mob, /blue/ is sounding a little aggressive - but what's going on doesn't bear your course of action out.

But enough about that, let's talk about the stuff that's pissing /blue/ off. Any more criticism about Knight, Wizard, or the like?
>> No. 2094
>The problem is that we don't need new bad writers, and there is no reason why someone who is terrible AND refuses to get better should not get the fuck out; by choice or not.
I can only agree to this. Now you may say who may choose what is bad and good? Well, if you have many people saying it is bad and they don't like it you should listen to them.
>I'm sure people do vote on stories just because.
I sometimes do this too just because the story is there and other people are voting too. Like a Lemming following the ones before you.

>Wizard
Most people are probably pissed because it was linked on various Sites that drew in some Idiots like Random Anon. The others probably don't like it because the MC is a overpowered Dick. But >>2066 shows that it comes with as much problems as advantages.
>> No. 2095
>>2094
>Lemming
>Idiots
>Sites
>Dick

No really. Why do you keep doing that? Is English not your native language and all nouns get capitalized in your native language or something?
>> No. 2096
>>2066
>haters
I see that you're as an unpleasant person as your character. People offer you legitimate criticisms about the shortcomings of your story and you brush them off with condescending shit like

>I guess that people who bitch about touhou fanfiction and people who've read Beowulf don't overlap much

or

>apparently I'm rare in not writing her as an irritating moron?

Who do you think you are?
>> No. 2097
>>2096

The Greatest Writer Alive, of course. His is popular, so it must be good! But that's how many many people feel when they make a popular work, so I can understand the feeling.
>> No. 2099
If the wizard anon is a Mary Sue I guess every story in this site who has an OC as a MC is Mary Sue-ish too, including older stories. I can't understand why this thing bothered some anons just now after 2 year of Mary Sue(s). Almost every native Gensokyoan that MC meet doesn't adopt 'Shoot first ask later' policy, mostly on friendly terms with some exceptions (grue). Some even go as far as romantic sex scene within 2-3 days game time, even though it was already thread number twenty or something, which I don't mind at all.
>> No. 2100
>>2090
A Beginner’s Guide to writing CYOAs on THP

Although they have elements of both, CYOAs are neither purely novels nor purely games. Even a well-read person or an experienced author might encounter some serious difficulties if he begins writing without being appropriately prepared; to that end, here are some tips.

Before you begin:
1. Ideally, you will have read some of the older stories in the archive and participated in a few of those currently running, so as to have a feel for how things operate on the site.
2. Make sure you have a reasonable command of spelling, grammar and sentence construction. No one is going to chew you out if your sentences read a little awkwardly on occasion, but fanfiction.net-level illiteracy will get you run off.
3. Make sure you have a story and not just characters or a setting (more on this below).

When you start writing, keep in mind that:
1.) A gimmick is not a story. A CYOA with the premise of “put Ragna the Bloodedge in Gensokyo and have him walk around and talk to random touhous” will inevitably stall as the novelty of the concept wears off for readers and writer alike. This is because the act of writing a story is presenting and resolving a problem – “the captain of a whaling ship lost his leg to a whale with a white hump on that he now wants revenge” or “the mother of Jotaro Kujo has become terminally ill as a side-effect of his family’s old nemesis being resurrected from the grave, which is why he needs to travel to Cairo and kill said nemesis within sixty days,” for example. When you have no problem or driving question, you have no story.
2.) Related to the above point, do not expect your readers to make a story for you out of nothing. CYOAs are interactive, but that doesn’t change the fact that you’re still the one writing it. Creating and defining the plot, characters and interactions is your job, not theirs.
3.) Simple is best; not every story needs to be an epic saga about love and betrayal. Very complex plots are hard for the readers to follow and, in the past, many stories have stalled because the writer tried to tackle a problem/driving question that proved unexpectedly difficult to develop and conclude.
4.) The story comes first, period. While you should definitely listen to your audience and seek to write something that is enjoyable for all parties, you shouldn’t make concessions that would result in derailing or otherwise ruining the tale you want to tell.
5.) Scenes serve the story, not the other way around. A description of a meal that doesn’t advance the plot or illustrate something new about the characters is unnecessary and should be cut in favor of something that does.
6.) Any opening sequence that could be summarized as “main character, who is an ordinary person from the outside world, is transported into Gensokyo by magic” is clichéd and unoriginal. Find another way to begin your story.
7.) You should keep original characters to a minimum. Touhou has a gigantic cast that can be interpreted in all kinds of ways; for most stories, there’s absolutely no need to bring in a lot of unfamiliar faces beyond (possibly) the main character.
8.) All of your characters should have realistic personalities and behave in realistic ways. This means that the main character should never be more powerful than a member of the canon cast unless he has a very good reason to be and that the supporting characters are not a mass of cute quirks that happens to be shaped like a woman.
9.) Your characters should speak with their own voice. People have differences in their patterns of speech and their opinions; you should try and reflect this in your dialogues.
10.) Don’t offer choices for that you don’t have a plan or that you can’t write. It’s a fast track to delays or indefinite hiatuses.
11.) Communicating with your readers is as much a part of your job as writing the story. Make sure that they are on the same page as you, and if there’s something they don’t understand, be sure to offer clarification.
12.) Crossovers are always stupid. Don’t use them.

These are guidelines, not rules. If you can deviate from them and write a good story, more power to you.


Is this suitable? Have I excluded anything of fundamental importance?
>> No. 2101
File 128992170816.jpg - (51.26KB , 440x512 , 1289267241400.jpg ) [iqdb]
2101
>>2095
I guess to piss you off it must be now.
>> No. 2102
>>2099

You also have to keep in mind that 'game time' varies wildly; SDMLA, for example, had what I think was 47 threads over the course of 'three days'. You could, of course, blame anon for jumping the gun, or you could, in that case, blame the writer for fairly terrible pacing. This is something that a lot of the earlier stories suffered from.

And yes, you could use the 'all stories on THP are mary-sues' argument, an argument that can be applied to nearly every fanfiction for anything, ever, and you would be right, to a point. But you can't deny that the Wizard is pretty overkill. Demetrious can say it was the element of surprise all he likes, but it doesn't change the fact that the MC knocked around Marisa like he was was just toying with her and handed Sanae her ass on a platter. He's overkill, plain and simple. You could also make the 'it's touhou versus 3.5e which is more broken' argument, but he could have easily begun the story with a lower level character and worked his way up instead of starting out with the most broken thing ever. It's more boring than anything, at this point.

Also; the 'haters gonna hate' defense? Really, demetrious?
>> No. 2103
>>2100

No complaints on the 'before you begin' stuff. Couldn't agree more.

In fact, the only thing that jumps out at me is '12.) Crossovers are always stupid. Don’t use them.' Call me optimistic, but having seen fairly well written crossovers for other series and such, I think it can be pulled off. You may be letting J to the E color your perceptions on this, but you need to realize that his story shot over the line from 'crossover' to 'fucking stupid'.
>> No. 2104
>>2100
>When you have no problem or driving question, you have no story.
What about slice-of-life?
>> No. 2105
>5.) Scenes serve the story, not the other way around. A description of a meal that doesn’t advance the plot or illustrate something new about the characters is unnecessary and should be cut in favor of something that does.

This could be read as "If you aren't always writing THE BIGGEST EVENT EVER!, don't write anything at all."
Downtime is important, because you can't always have high-tension action all over the place. Every line in every post shouting "oh no! How will they survive this?!" quickly becomes as boring as bad slice of life where nothing happens at all.

>>2103
I agree with this. Crossovers are hard to do well, because you have two canons to follow. But if you can manage to pull one off, they can be just as good as any other story.
>> No. 2106
>5.)A description of a meal that doesn’t advance the plot or illustrate something new about the characters is unnecessary and should be cut in favor of something that does.

I don't agree. As Anon said, it's necessary to break the story sometimes. Besides, "usual" scene like that can be used to hide hints about character's feelings, leading the readers to his own conclusions.
>> No. 2107
>>2104
In my experience, slice-of-life is easy to screw up and difficult to do well. Anyone who’s never tried writing before should try their hand at a normal story first in order to get a good grasp of the basics.

>>2103
I phrased it that way because I wanted to discourage newcomers from doing them. If you want, I’ll amend it when I have some time later.

>>2105
>This could be read as "If you aren't always writing THE BIGGEST EVENT EVER!, don't write anything at all."

It’s not how it was meant to be understood, but your point is well-taken about people possibly interpreting “advance the plot” as “action.” As with the one above, I’ll change it to something like “You should think carefully about the scenes you include,” which is more in line with what I meant.

>>2106
>Besides, "usual" scene like that can be used to hide hints about character's feelings

Hence the “illustrate something new about the characters” part.
>> No. 2108
>>2101

This should not be your reaction. Looking through your past posts, the ones with random capitalization are a scant few. Why do only a few posts go through with errant capitals?
>> No. 2109
>>2107
>Hence the “illustrate something new about the characters” part.

But if the writer only post "interesting" stuff in his story, it's not really subtle to randomly put "her face was displaying a smile, but her eyes weren't smiling".
Perhaps I'm not clear, but if you're writing only the "important" stuff, Anon won't have any trouble to figure what's going on.

And, personally, I enjoy reading a story where I have to think deeply about this character's feelings or what'll going on.

Am I clear, ou should I rephrase myself? I'm a little tired, so maybe it doesn't make sense...
>> No. 2110
>>2109
"Interesting" and "subtle" are not mutually exclusive, particularly if you put an appropriate amount of effort into writing your dialogue.
>> No. 2111
>>2100

You might also mention how to use Bad Ends. They can be useful to remind people why not to constantly choose the most dickish/stupid choices but at the same going overboard on them can ruin the story faster then anything else.
>> No. 2112
>>2108
I just write.
Things like that probably happen when i skip though it again, rephrase sentences anew, look up words or redo everything.

Writing this probably took me 30 minutes or longer. Which is nothing new because i want my posts to be perfect, at least to my knowledge and ability in english.
The very first post by me took me an hour to write. I am always serious when i write things like that becuase i don't want it to be half done but done right.
When /jp/ split from /a/ i stopped using u, ur, write won't instead of wont, made points after a Sentence write words capitalized and don't write like the usual Youtube User anymore. Furthermore i have no idea when to make a , and just put it where i think it should go. And some more.

I hope everyone is happy and we can put a stop to discussion my english and talk about something way more interesting.
>> No. 2114
>>2091
I agree. The moment we start getting rid of people is the moment the board goes on life-support. From there it's just a slow spiral until eventually the doctor decides its time to pull the plug. If we don't have an influx of new writers coming in and that are being encouraged to write and won't be banned when they're trying to improve then the whole purpose of the site becomes a moot point.
>> No. 2117
>>2115

Learn to differentiate "crossovers" with... reinterpretations?

i.e. one uses characters from another series, the other just ganks the setting for touhou use.

And /others/ isn't even just for that dammit, it's for anything that doesn't fit in the other boards or /th/.

Make your sarcastic suggestions plausible dammit.
>> No. 2119
>>2112
>i want my posts to be perfect
They're pretty far from it.

>>2115
>Hmm I guess that totally goes against the board Other's meant for crossovers and the like.
Which is why it's full of stories that aren't crossovers, right?

We have a couple stories that are vaguely based on other universes (Persona, Kamen Rider), but we've always drawn the line at mixing in actual characters from other series. That's where shit gets stupid.

>>2116
>What if I don't like any of the stories posted on the site?
Leave.
>> No. 2120
>>2115
>Wait we can't use crossovers?
Those are guidelines. If you can write a good crossover story, go for it. However, statistically speaking, you can't. And if you try and fail the rage will be amplified.

>won't be banned
Again, this is not a threat. Most people don't get banned. Typically a new writer will come, start a story and then abandon it after a few updates after realizing the difficulty and time associated with writing a story on this site. Only the absolute worst would even be at risk of a ban, and even then it's only the people with an attitude such as "NO MY STORY DOESN'T SUCK IT'S AWESOME IT'S YOU GUYS THAT CAN'T APPRECIATE ART" that would actually get banned get writing a horrible story.
>> No. 2121
Lots of deleted posts. I guess authority figures act the same just like in real life. They try and stop people from speaking out against them despite the idea being everyone having a voice.
>> No. 2122
>>2121
Those posts were deleted by their authors, not the mods.
>> No. 2123
>>2121

The guilty always complain. Stop posting dumb posts one after the other. Learn how to put everything into one post, stop jumping to retarded conclusions and generally being an idiot. I've seen so many posts of yours reported for stupidity so far, you'd think you'd learn to shut up.
>> No. 2124
>>2123

Mode, could you just ban him? He never really contributes to conversations.
>> No. 2125
>>2121

You sound like a spoiled child. Do us all a favor and leave.
>> No. 2126
>>2096
>>apparently I'm rare in not writing her as an irritating moron?

He's just repeating something that this anon said in one of his threads. Granted, there are quite a few people who have written non-irritating Cirnos, there are fewer Cirnos that aren't stupid. Its a nice change of pace and allows her to become a main character in the story instead of remaining a passing curiosity.
>> No. 2127
File 128996794971.jpg - (42.52KB , 400x838 , 1289180537336.jpg ) [iqdb]
2127
I leave you muppets alone and all hell breaks loose.
>> No. 2128
>>2127
You're not who I think you are, are you?
>> No. 2129
>>2128
This Thread already served its purpose is what I meant.
>> No. 2132
>>2129

We need a new thread, then.
>> No. 2133
Well, Twitty just ended his story and more or less proved he's actually a rather nice writer. I think that was more just a case of getting carried away with retarded votes than anything.
>> No. 2134
And what about the Average Joe story?
>> No. 2136
>>2100

----------
A Beginner’s Guide to writing CYOAs on THP

Although they have elements of both, CYOAs are neither purely novels nor purely games. Even a well-read person or an experienced author might encounter some serious difficulties if he begins writing without being appropriately prepared; to that end, here are some tips.


Before you begin:
1.) Ideally, you will have read some of the older stories in the archive (http://www.touhou-project.com/storylist.html) and participated in a few of those currently running, so as to have a feel for how things operate on the site.
2.) Make sure you have a reasonable command of spelling, grammar and sentence construction. No one is going to chew you out if your sentences read a little awkwardly on occasion, but fanfiction.net-level illiteracy will get you run off.
3.) Make sure you have a story and not just characters or a setting (more on this below).


When you start writing, keep in mind that:
1.) A gimmick is not a story. A CYOA with the premise of “put Ragna the Bloodedge in Gensokyo and have him walk around and talk to random touhous” will inevitably stall as the novelty of the concept wears off for readers and writer alike. This is because the act of writing a story is presenting and resolving a problem – “the captain of a whaling ship lost his leg to a whale with a white hump on that he now wants revenge” or “the mother of Jotaro Kujo has become terminally ill as a side-effect of his family’s old nemesis being resurrected from the grave, which is why he needs to travel to Cairo and kill said nemesis within sixty days,” for example. When you have no problem or driving question, you have no story.
2.) Related to the above point, you should not expect your readers to make the story for you out of nothing. CYOAs are interactive, but that doesn’t change the fact that you’re still the one writing it. Creating and defining the plot, characters and interactions is your job, not theirs.
3.) Simple is best; not every story needs to be an epic saga about love and betrayal. Very complex plots are hard for the readers to follow and, in the past, many stories have stalled because the writer tried to tackle a problem/driving question that proved unexpectedly difficult to develop and conclude.
4.) The story comes first, period. While you should definitely listen to your audience and seek to write something that is enjoyable for all parties, you shouldn’t make concessions that would result in derailing or otherwise ruining the tale you want to tell.
5.) Scenes serve the story, not the other way around. An action sequence or a description of a meal that doesn’t introduce new information about the main plot or characters is unnecessary and should be cut in favor of something that does.
6.) Plot twists and future events need to be foreshadowed well in advance of when they actually happen. Resolving a CYOA with story elements that you introduced at the last minute or only mentioned in one line early on is called “Deus Ex Machina;” it cheats your readers of their accomplishment in reaching the ending and is one of the most grievous sins you can commit in writing. Don’t do it.
7.) Any introduction that could be summarized as “main character, who is an ordinary person from the outside world, is transported into Gensokyo by magic” is clichéd and unoriginal. Find another way to begin your story.
8.) You should keep original characters to a minimum. Touhou has a gigantic cast that can be interpreted in all kinds of ways; for most stories, there’s absolutely no need to bring in a lot of unfamiliar faces beyond (possibly) the main character.
9.) All of your characters should have realistic personalities and behave in realistic ways. This means that the main character should never be more powerful than a member of the canon cast unless he has a very good reason to be and that the supporting characters are not a mass of cute quirks that happens to be shaped like a woman.
10.) Your characters should speak with their own voice. People have differences in their patterns of speech and their opinions; you should try and reflect this in your dialogues.
11.) You should not offer choices for that you don’t have a plan or that you can’t write. It’s a fast track to long delays or indefinite hiatuses.
12.) Communicating with your readers is as much a part of your job as writing the story. Make sure that they are on the same page as you, and if there’s something they don’t understand, be sure to offer clarification.
13.) Crossovers almost never work. Don’t use them unless your problem/driving question demands it.


These are guidelines, not rules. If you can deviate from them and write a good story, more power to you.
----------

This is my try at revising it. I didn't want to change the wording for 5.) too much because, in my experience, the bigger problem for newer writers isn't as much too little downtime as it is too much - overdeveloping events that serve little purpose in the larger picture of the story. A writer who is practiced enough to avoid this problem will have already learned how to use downtime and wouldn't be the target audience of this guide anyway.

>>2111
I didn't say anything about Bad Ends because 6.) 9.) and 11.) already go into the reasons of why they shouldn't be used frivolously - if at all.
>> No. 2137
>>2134
He's already been warned. If he decides to disregard this thread and continue posting instead of leaving or starting from scratch, we take more direct action.
>> No. 2138
>>2136
This is better. Almost perfect.

Clear, not insulting, explaining WHY and HOW...
>> No. 2139
>>2137
And that action would be?
>> No. 2140
>>2139
Given the track record, it would be jeers, insults, and shit-flinging.
>> No. 2141
>>2140
It's worked before~

Honestly, I don't know about Hat. Unlike Demetrious, his story hasn't attracted burger-fluid-covered /tg/ neckbeards like honey attracts flies, nor has he whined about how we don't appreciate his art.

However, unlike Twitty and Karesh, who've shown a great willingness to become better writers, he's more or less just ignored every criticism and silently kept updating.

Honestly, I don't know, but I just don't really think saging the crap out of his threads is the answer here.
>> No. 2142
>>2140
So pretty much the same stuff that's been happening but hasn't stopped him.
>> No. 2143
>>2141
>>2142
Well, isn't he one of the writers who brought in friends, so that he can continue to have a circle-jerk fanbase?

Speaking of that, Chrysanthemum writes that absolutely garbage story in Coriander. That thing needs to go.
>> No. 2144
>>2143
>Shamelessly short update is short. Anyway, /blue/'s got me more paranoid than usual. You guys mind telling me just how bad this story is, and if I'm getting at all better?

Feel free to go there and tell him what you don't like about his story and how it could be improved.
That is what most Writers want, critique and ways to improve theirselves.
The ones who don't want, continue on like before and just don't care are garbage.
>> No. 2145
>>2143
I was wondering when I'd get mentioned. If it's any consolation at all, I realize the story and my skills are both utter shit. I'll be ending it very soon anyway, then going off into seclusion for a while before trying something else. Hopefully I can improve at least somewhat during that.

I also assume some responsibility for Hat, having been the one to convince him to write in the first place. I can vouch that the readers are a coincidence, however.
>> No. 2146
>>2136
This needs more advice on how to set up voting opportunities.

Here's one that's screwed up a number of stories: Don't give anon a chance to contradict themselves. For example, if they've been choosing to go off and talk to character A about important things, and later character M shows up saying character A needs to talk to them right away, and they aren't doing anything particularly important, don't ask them if they want to go see her. Why wouldn't they?

At best it's a pointless reaffirmation of anon's past decisions. At worst - if they actually vote no - then your main character's course of action has just become inconsistent and confused. The former just happened in Idea of Alice, with 10 unanimous votes, no write-ins, and little discussion. See >>/sdm/44175 for more on that.

Perhaps a better way of looking at this is don't let anon make the main character act out of character. The decisions you leave to anon should serve to flesh out your MC's personality, motives, preferences, etc. Once you've incorporated these into the character, contradictory decisions would naturally be out of character. Don't let them happen.

You might ask, how do you keep the MC from acting out of character when everyone's always making write-in votes? Writers have veto power over write-in votes. If anon makes a blatantly out-of-character write-in that you can't work around, tell them you can't do it and make them vote again. Nobody wants to see a story stall out just because they think breaking the laws of physics to take two paths at once or proposing marriage to a random non-plot-relevant character would be hilarious.
>> No. 2147
>>2146
>if they actually vote no - then your main character's course of action has just become inconsistent and confused. This just happened in Idea of Alice

Dare you insinuate that I am less than perfect

My art

This all-embracing Gesamtkunstwerk

...ok, yeah. You're entirely right. I fucked up. It wasn't all anon's fault (though I am indeed disappointed at the lack of discussion), it was also partially mine.

It's not totally out of character for Alice to decide she'll need Reimu and Marisa's help, yes. But given that she isn't entirely trustful of even them, and taking into the huge issues she's displayed concerning the fact that the battle with Yuuka is for her utterly personal, it might be even more in character for her to go alone, enough so that it probably wouldn't need to be held to a vote.

Either way, though, and no matter how much it might piss me off that anon doesn't write-in new ideas or at least discuss their votes, I know I could have provided better choices. I didn't, mostly because the length of time it took to make the update fatigued me and I was out of energy when I finished writing it. And that is entirely my fault.
>> No. 2148
>It wasn't all anon's fault
Hmmm, doesn't it always go like this.

1. Anon is to blame for everything that goes wrong.
2. In the case that Anon is not to blame instantly go over to point 1.
>> No. 2149
File 129023059247.jpg - (68.27KB , 200x207 , 125660595034.jpg ) [iqdb]
2149
>>2148
>> No. 2150
>>2146
As with the business of "bad ends," the points you raise have already been addressed. If a writer is following 9.) 11.) and 4.), he's not going to be offering choices for the sake of choices; he's not going to present any options that the main character would dismiss out-of-hand, and he's not going to accept write-ins that ruin his story.
>> No. 2151
>>2150
Yeah, that's great, your post was perfect and we're all wasting our time. I don't think you should just say "well you can obviously figure it out by following these three rules". If it's important, spell it out for people.

Also, you seem to be missing the point of bad ends. A bad end is not a derailment of a story, it is the prevention of a derailment. It's a quick dead end that tells you to go back and take the right path. A clever writer can even use them (sparingly) to reveal something to the audience or remind them of the risks they're taking.
>> No. 2152
>>2151

Yay for unnecessary hostilities!
>> No. 2153
>>2151
>If it's important, spell it out for people.
I did spell it out. Besides, anyone who sees fit to follow the guide and peruse the older/ongoing stories won't need an essay about how to write choices because he'll have already observed it himself with MiG.

>Also, you seem to be missing the point of bad ends. A bad end is not a derailment of a story, it is the prevention of a derailment. It's a quick dead end that tells you to go back and take the right path. A clever writer can even use them (sparingly) to reveal something to the audience or remind them of the risks they're taking.

A clever writer can do all of those things without needing to break the flow or cheapen mistakes, which is exactly what he’s doing when he uses bad ends. If the writer is doing his job correctly, the readers who have been paying attention should have sufficient knowledge of the story events and an understanding of the relative risks associated with the different choices at the time that the choices are actually being offered, because telling them to try and pick the right choice in absence of enough information isn’t a choice at all – it’s a crapshoot.

Similarly, I’m not seeing how hints communicated through a bad end couldn’t have just been communicated normally to greater effect. If it’s something that the readers should have already known, then you should have told them sooner. If it’s something that they should know for the future, then you shouldn’t be giving it away until the right moment. If it’s something that’s unimportant, then you don’t need to mention it all.

Just because VNs have an artificial limitation in the form of bad ends as a consequence of the writer not interacting directly with the readers doesn’t mean that CYOAs, which don’t have this problem, need to have them as well.
>> No. 2154
>>2153
Sometimes they're just plain fun though.
>> No. 2155
>>2154
>THP
>fun
>> No. 2156
>>2155
>YAF
>Huge faggot
>> No. 2157
File 129034193097.jpg - (321.73KB , 760x1020 , 128210081630.jpg ) [iqdb]
2157
>>2156
Guess the Thread will end with this.

Shows over and might as well save the New Writer Guide somewhere. >>2136
>> No. 2158
Did anyone save the first few threads of YAF's most recent story that he deleted in his backpedaling? Those were pretty funny.
>> No. 2159
>>2158
Yeah, that shit was whack. I don't have it, though, I don't think.
>> No. 2160
File 129034530886.jpg - (25.36KB , 1190x204 , lol.jpg ) [iqdb]
2160
>>2158
I still have this.
>> No. 2161
>>2153
Yeah, see, I don't agree with you on that. Are we trying to put together a list of guidelines from the community, or is that just your personal opinions on how a story should be written?

Remember how this started: >>2089
>I'd prefer if the pointers could be something that the majority agree with as well. No point in creating a 'guidebook' for new writers when the tips being presented are contested themselves.
>> No. 2163
File 129035248618.jpg - (79.79KB , 429x444 , 1285155326288.jpg ) [iqdb]
2163
>>2160
Good times, good times.
>> No. 2169
File 129054902595.png - (44.03KB , 327x217 , justice.png ) [iqdb]
2169
>>/border/24526
He hasn't acknowledged our warnings. Judging by his posts, his plan was probably to lay low until the storm in /blue/ subsided, at which time he would continue doing whatever the hell he wants and making this site look like some grotesque abortion of ff.net in the process. Are all of you just going to accept this?

If TwittyandStrange, another newcomer, whose story wasn’t as much of an embarrassment as Average Joe, had enough humility to recognize his shortcomings, ask for criticism and try again, why should we give this arrogant, YAF2.0 a free pass?

Does anyone have an imagedumper handy?
>> No. 2170
>>2169

No, but we all have a web browser. Let's go kill it.
>> No. 2176
>>2175

What in THE FUCK did you just try to say?
>> No. 2177
>>2175

I am not a newfag by any means. I am also not old enough to have read all of those retards shit as it was being produced. That being said, even I still know exactly why they were so terrible. Is it too much to ask that you take the time to learn why they are bad also, so that you might learn from their mistakes, or at least understand the names we are calling you? Its not.
>> No. 2178
>>2169
No imagedumping or sagebombing. That will probably get you banned.

The realtime CYOA format relies on reader support. If a story is hated enough, it will wither and die. There's no need to go that far.

>>2175
You're suggesting we not talk about this history of this site because there are new people? That's the most retarded idea in this thread so far, and that's saying something.
>> No. 2179
>>2178
>If a story is hated enough, it will wither and die.
Doesn't always work that way.

If the writer decides to continue with no votes, then they can. Nothing physically stops them from it.
If the writer brings a userbase from another site, then there will always be some votes.
>> No. 2180
I've noticed a disturbing trend of retards signing their votes with some sort of trademark. We have never encouraged or allowed people to post with whatever retarded names they can think of; so why should we allow them to sign their votes in a certain way? I'm getting tired of seeing some retarded fuck voting without "x's", or some dipshit signing with [greeeeeeen]

It needs to stop.
>> No. 2181
>>2180
[Io, Leonardo] Nerd.
>> No. 2183
>>2180

>[greeeeeeen]

That happened exactly once. And the badness of this "problem" you speak of is trivial.
>> No. 2184
Sometimes people are just too lazy to put in the 'X' into their vote and copy paste it verbatim.
>> No. 2185
>>2183
I also am guilty of posting with [greeeen], but I've only used it once, to vote for the green option. It's hardly an identifiable trademark, considering I usually use normal Xs, so apart from irritating you, I can't understand the problem.
>> No. 2188
>>2136

>11.) You should not offer choices for that you don’t have a plan or that you can’t write. It’s a fast track to long delays or indefinite hiatuses.

Am I doing myself a disservice by writing out each choice's follow-up post before posting the update?
>> No. 2189
>>2188
Maybe. How well do you handle write-ins?
>> No. 2190
>>2189
If the write-in's doable, from vote #1 I write that out as well. If there's further clarification I alter it further. (Hence why my updates take a little bit longer than usual.)

My opinion towards write-ins is that as long as it's viable and it's not degenerative, it's up for consideration.

Of course, if I dislike a write-in, I'll post as soon as I see it expressing a want to understand the 'why' for the write-in (in case it really is a good write-in and I just don't see the possibility) and/or point out things that are meta-knowledge.
>> No. 8830
derp
>> No. 8831
This is totally not a thing.
>> No. 8850
also not a thing
>> No. 8851
agega
>> No. 8852
herpderpderp
>> No. 9115
derrr