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File 138326675695.jpg - (1.12MB, 1200x1116, b6b0f1dc1b8984d9e1830d1aed02a999.jpg) [iqdb]
18486No. 18486
Previous Thread: >>17678

It hit it's auto sage limit, so here's a new thread!
Expand all images
>>No. 18487
File 138326723744.jpg - (35.76KB, 432x418, read a book.jpg) [iqdb]
18487
First for third person narrative.
>>No. 18488
second for irc is scary
>>No. 18489
>>18488
Third for THE CABAAAAAAAAAAAAL
>>No. 18490
File 138331683096.jpg - (151.61KB, 612x612, 8286712627_1d13ccf89f_z.jpg) [iqdb]
18490
Fourth for the most overused advice in the other six Writing Advice Threads.

Suck it, YAF.
>>No. 18491
File 13833174929.jpg - (51.48KB, 357x400, SoB.jpg) [iqdb]
18491
This thread has reached its seventh edition? W.A.T.

And, uh, fifth for daily burnout November I guess.
>>No. 18493
Sixth for FUCK YO DAILY UPDATE NOVEMBER, I'LL WRITE WHEN I WANT TO
>>No. 18494
Seventh because actually wanting advice.

I'm trying to give my writing some "flavor". You know, make it pop and be less bland. OTHER THAN READING BOOKS, how would you suggest doing that? I read a lot of books, but I don't learn by osmosis, with a few exceptions but I don't think Math and History can help improve my writing mechanically.
>>No. 18495
>>18494
>learn by osmosis
READ the book then, kid. ANALYZE it.

Seriously, though. Find something you like and break it down. Does a favorite author use strange adjective-adverb pairings? Non-standard sentence structures? How do they reference characters? Is is the mechanical writing that's different or the ideas? How about something simple like the number of complex versus simple sentences?

Think about that shit and then experiment. You'll never know what really pops are what you really like until you try it. If it turns out to be unsalvagable, uniterable dog shit then move on to the next experiment
>>No. 18496
>>18494
Here’s a book I upped and linked some time ago. It does a good job of explaining a few techniques used by renowned authors, and has the decency of providing actual examples and comparisons.

Just don’t get too enamoured with the “thesaurus/dictionary” in the latter half. Flexibility is key. Don’t go on copying it.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/p1o2pxz4tmz7741/The_Well-Spoken_Thesaurus-The_Most_Powerful_Ways_to_Say_Everyday_Words_and_Phrases%5BTeam_Nanban%5D%
5BTPB%5D.pdf
>>No. 18497
>>18496
Style Towards Clarity and Grace by Joseph M. Williams, despite focusing more on 'academic writing' puts out good advice on getting your point across clearly and concisely--something anyone'd benefit from when writing prose.

Anything else you'd recommend Yaf?
>>No. 18499
>>18497
I learn mostly via osmosis myself, so I can’t say. Most of the theoretical books I read are on psychology rather than writing. Thesaurus I happened on by chance on /lit/, so that’s one exception to the rule. I probably couldn’t put a name to half the techniques I utilise in my own writing. So yeah. I can’t really contribute anything of worth here.

Well, as a non-native speaker of English, I could probably point you to authors who have changed or bolstered my grasp of English significantly, but then I believe you should read what books you like. There’s little point in reading something meant for entertainment as an educational exercise, I think. Read something you like and learn from that. Two birds with one stone.
>>No. 18501
There is no shame in refusing a write-in because you find it too bland right.

right?

I'm a casual writer, but I wonder how hard some of you guys would rip me apart in proofing reading
>>No. 18502
>>18501
As a writer you can refuse any write-in that you think it won't work well with the flow of your story. In fact, more stories have been ruined for going along with a stupid write-in than for refusing to use them. Though the readers would also like to hear your justification for the rejection of their write-ins.
>>No. 18503
Two questions.
1. Any advice on how to manage multiple stories?

2. I’m attempting to keep a weekly update on my current story (though it has been delayed every so often), but I won’t be able to keep that up with two stories. I’ve been thinking of alternating between the updates, only posting one update per week. Is this something I should ask my readers about?
>>No. 18504
>>18503
> 1. Any advice on how to manage multiple stories?
Work with a schedule, give yourself deadlines. Make them public, too, so you actually have some kind of obligation. This will help avoid shortage of motivation and excuse-making.
> I’ve been thinking of alternating between the updates, only posting one update per week. Is this something I should ask my readers about?
Measure intents by abilities. Pace yourself according to what you feel capable of. Alternatively, ask your readers which story they would rather see updated more often if you can’t keep both of them up. Actually, just ask your readers in general. CYOAs are a joint effort (even if the amount of input is imbalanced), so communication is kind of key here.
>>No. 18507
Can I trust anon to be smart enough to figure out a mystery or puzzle? Am I gonna be able to get away with telling them they fucked up if they get it wrong?

Tone is difficult, how can I slowly work the narrator's dialogue from silly to serious? I'm pretty certain its better to focus on one or the other but..
>>No. 18508
File 13837167351.jpg - (322.64KB, 1440x1080, Yaf gives writing advice.jpg) [iqdb]
18508
>>18507
Puzzles can be enjoyable if handled right. Personally, I like to offer puzzles that the readers can solve themselves, or have the protagonist solve if they can't. Hints are good, Especially in cases of in-story puzzles. The main danger of puzzles is if you and your readers operate on very different wavelengths. Good luck getting them to solve them then.

But if it's a murder mystery type thing or a meta-puzzle, that advice pretty much goes out the window.

Don't worry too much about picking between silly and serious tone. Never being serious or always being serious can sometimes hurt a story. The key is finding a balance that works for the story you want to tell. As for transitions, usually a paragraph or two of description or narration works. But sometimes, you want that very abrupt shift. But that's usually a matter of "Shit just got real". It can convey a sense of urgency when needed. Beyond that, sometimes it's good to add humor to a serious scene, as a character's method of coping with stress.
>>No. 18519
>>18507
As for puzzles, I think anon is pretty smart.

For puzzles the answer should be compelling and/or at least recognizable if arrived at. For larger mysteries, anon misses when they make a faulty major assumption, misjudge the nature of the puzzle, or pursue faulty avenues of thought. Though the last one can be healthy development for a story.

If you plan to introduce more in story clues, look at what the readers have talked about and spotted from the clues present so far and consider accordingly. It helps to let the readers know "Hey, there is something to be figured out here, so read carefully. And btw, it's a "this" kind of thing."

Regarding changing tones, maybe you can have the main character distract themselves from the issue at hand: "I can't be worrying all the time or I'll go crazy". You can have them lighten up after thinking about or seeing something amusing, cracking some dark humor. Also what >>18508 said. A variety of tones is very often a good thing in a longer story.
>>No. 18521
>But if it's a murder mystery type thing or a meta-puzzle that advice pretty much goes out the window.

welp.

>or puzzles the answer should be compelling and/or at least recognizable

I shouldn't have a problem with this at least, I have a feeling the biggest hurdle is the fact that I'm almost requiring anon to do some research or being well read.

Or it will be so pitifully easy and/or obvious that there will be some difficulty in order for the protagonist in character to come to same conclusion as the readers, from what is found in the world.

It was a shaky idea to begin with but I guess the only way to find out is to dive in...
>>No. 18522
Is backpedaling bad if you wrote something but forgot to call vote and then someone invalided something?

Its not a huge deal seeing how it could easily be shoehorned in, but not sure.

I should probably just ask the readers but I'm too beta to do that without reassurance
>>No. 18523
>>18522

If it's too much work to try and fit in or would frankly just be a pain, I'd probably avoid backpedaling or retconning. I ran into a similar situation recently.

>I should probably just ask the readers but I'm too beta to do that without reassurance

Man, coming off the high throne of "writefag" and just talking frankly with your readers is a great thing to do. (Okay, maybe it has a risk of ruining some great original pure artistic ideal, but I hardly think anyone with that level of snootiness would be on a fanfiction site for a shmup starring a suspiciously high proportion of cute girls.) For one, readers often know more about what you've already written than what you think you can remember about it. Talking with them can eliminate future miscommunications or smooth over any perceived slights. They can think of neat ideas or little notes to keep in mind for later, and finally they can just be flat out entertaining to talk to.

I've personally even discussed/spoiled/teased my story's direction on the IRC, gauging initial reactions and fielding suggestions both serious and trolltastic. It's really quite useful, at least when you're not busy drooling over pictures of fluffy tails.
>>No. 18524
>>18521
>But if it's a murder mystery type thing or a meta-puzzle that advice pretty much goes out the window.

>welp.

With regards to murder mysteries specifically- they don't always have to be fair-play stories. Fair-play are godawful hard to write- you have to have your clues, culprit, method of murder, AND a timeline laid out all in front of you before you get started. And then you have to keep all of that in mind as you write.

Anyway, I've come across a good rule of thumb regarding mysteries and clues:

Drop a clue once, and they'll miss it.
Drop a clue twice, and they'll miss it.
Drop a clue three times, they'll notice it, and think you're being delightfully subtle.

Remember, you already KNOW what's going on, and the point isn't to make it a mystery to you. If you feel like you're bludgeoning your readers over the head with the clues, you're probably doing it right.
>>No. 18525
File 13838556078.jpg - (14.81KB, 227x222, zz.jpg) [iqdb]
18525
Its not as if I'm going to be challenging them to a game of wits.

They'll be given straight up obvious clues with the word clue slapped on it.

I don't wanna make it too easy, otherwise tension is lost. But its pretty much going to be similar to pic related once they know the limitations.
>>No. 18528
Same question as above, but from a different angle.
What about hints and puzzles and the like when it comes to Easter eggs or other information that won’t have any impact on the story, but just be kinda fun to know?

For example if you continue to refer to something in the MC’s past that doesn’t really have any impact on the present. If you often refer back to it, each time giving out new info without mentioning it, can you expect anyone to pick up on it?
>>No. 18529
>>18528
Yeah.
>>No. 18530
Anyone got any words to say on writing great fighting/actiony scenes?
>>No. 18531
>>18530
For all it's worth, I'd say you should read some of the fights from Archetype of Self first run. The MC may be quite over powered, but the fights are well worth analyzing.
And for the usual advise: Read & Write. That's the only way to improve. If your fight scene feels off, then it's because something is off, or because you're judging yourself too hard.

Alternatively: Keep the sentences short and fast phased. Make them vague but without becoming too vague (to the point where it becomes impossible to understand what’s going on).
>>No. 18532
>>18530
Short, dynamic sentences. Simple pictures of actions. “Powerful” verbs (shoot, ram, drive, rip, crash, slam, punch, etc.); for instance: “She ripped her dagger from its sheath and punched it into his abdomen.” Try not to linger too much on the precise descriptions of movements – your readers do have imagination, contrary to what you’d think, and a slightly confusing, vague description will express adequately the real-life franticness of battle. So no precise reports of the fighting characters’ motions, unless it is somehow important for the plot.

Also avoid adverbs.

And alliterations. Ahem.
>>No. 18533
What would be the best way to show yelling?

like, Shounen Protagonist/Super Robot pilot kial type yelling.

Simply slapping bold and/or italics on a long line of "OOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUAAAAAAAAAAH" or "DORYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA" or what have you in all caps doesn't seem right.

And it seems changing text size or font is unavailable in imageboard post medium.

>>18528
It seems like footnotes would be excellent for this.
>>No. 18535
>>18533
Personally, I would avoid doing that. In fact I would avoid writing just about any sound effect.
Rather, I’d choose to describe the sound. How well I can make it flow and how it can fit into the story will depend on the moment and how detailed I can get.

Taking your example of yelling. Instead of just slapping BOLD ITALICS ON A LINE OF CAPS, describe what it feels like to yell like that. How does it feel physically? Emotionally? Of course the later will depend on why he is yelling. Like if he’s yelling from anger, then it could be a feeling of relief, or a way to vent the anger.

A line in all caps like that let your message come across, but it’ll be impersonal. If you were to describe the yell on the other hand, the reader may be able to ‘feel’ the yell.

An example. When you’re reading manga (or any other comic for that matter) and the characters yell as they attack (DBZ), do you read all the yells fully, or do you just skip it until actual text comes again? Books and other text-only materials are even more sensitive to this as there often are no pictures to go along with.

Get what I’m saying? No?
Then there’ll be other to explain it better.
>>No. 18536
Can’t remember if a question like this has popped up before, but I’m going to ask it anyway.
Any advice when writing ‘calmer’ stories, such as pure romance or slice-of-life?
The times I’ve sat down and attempted the preparations for either of those categorizes I’ve come out empty-handed, finding a lack of potential plot, content in between the more important parts and a general lack of any ideas about what to do in general.
>>No. 18539
File 13843577158.gif - (243.36KB, 400x160, 5c533caf27d9d005acbad82afe54af90 (1).gif) [iqdb]
18539
>>18536
Watch K-ON and Yuyushiki.
SoL can be summed up with "Cute girls doing cute things"
Also yuri subtext.

>>/shorts/1232

Most recent example of SoL I can think of.
Keymaster's "Being Meiling" is also in there.
>>No. 18540
File 138436725481.jpg - (31.99KB, 500x375, whatthefuck.jpg) [iqdb]
18540
>>18539
>SoL can be summed up with "Cute girls doing cute things"
That’s moeshit, you numpty.
>>No. 18541
>>18536
Restorer in Gensokyo is a decent example despite having yuri undertones. So would being Meiling.

As for somethin Slice of life-like that's not soaked in yuri, there's "In the Forest, A Dancing light"

But in general slice of life isn't too common here.


>>18539
Slice of life is mainly about capturing everyday life more or less. What you speak of is often yuri pandering corruptions of the concept.
>>No. 18542
>>18541
>As for somethin Slice of life-like that's not soaked in yuri, there's "In the Forest, A Dancing light"

Instead, it's soaked with waifushit.
>>No. 18543
>"In the Forest, A Dancing light"
>waifushit written by an autist

Yeah, no.
>>No. 18544
When your MC is piss drunk, how would that affect the narration?
>>No. 18545
>>18544
You really have to ask yourself how getting pissed affects anybody. The character in question is probably going to display questionable judgment, have a little bit (or a lot, depending on just how pissed they are) of trouble maintaining a coherent line of thought, have "tunnel vision" in many senses...
>>No. 18546
is a tengu's wings retractable?
>>No. 18547
>>18546
As far as I know. Nothing official has been confirmed. However there has been official material where Aya have had wings, and some where she hasn’t. How she goes from one to another is up to you as a writer.

Tl;dr. Yes, yes they can.
>>No. 18548
Where does the soul of an umbrella lies? Just in case some writers want to 'renovate' kogasa.
>>No. 18549
>>18548
Where does the soul of a human lie? Just kidding. Humans don't have souls.
The most obvious answer would be in the umbrella. However, as the writer, you have the ability to change it to make it fit your story.
>>No. 18550
>>18536
One of these days I am going to come home not totally knackered and write up something constructive for you. Maybe tomorrow. That’s provided I don’t go and get pissed and come home at stupid o’ clock or something. If you’re still interested.

Just in case, have you read any of my stories? If so, I could use them for examples.
>>No. 18551
>>18549
I mean the part. You know, like the handle, the staff, etc. Just in case kogasa needs a replacement part.
>>No. 18552
>>18551
I'd say it's more conceptual than a specific part.

Alternately, the umbrella has youkai regeneration powers. It would be reasonable enough.
>>No. 18553
>>18550
> Just in case, have you read any of my stories? If so, I could use them for examples.

I didn't ask the question but I'd be interested in a post like this
>>No. 18554
So, if Reimu's gone missing, do everyone would still respect the spell card rule?

What would happen if Reimu ever dies??
>>No. 18555
>>18536 here.
I wouldn’t have asked if I weren’t interested. Any help you can provide is appreciated.

As for your stories. The ones I remember having read is ‘This Shrine’ and ‘This Shatters Reality’ and a handful of their spin-offs.


>>18554
With the last Hakurei gone, the Hakurei border would likely collapse. I imagine chaos would break out now that no one is there to keep things right, or someone else will take over as the ‘maintainer’ (for lack of better word), until Yukari have found a way to replace/recreate the barrier.

Of course that’s just my view of it. I forget if anything specific has been said in canon.
>>No. 18556
>>18554
I don't believe there has ever been anything official said on the matter. That said, I'm not entirely certain of that.

Really, it comes down to whatever a given writer decides will be most interesting, much like a myriad of other things.You can pretty much interpret things however you see fit.
>>No. 18557
What happened to the rest of the Hakurei clan?
>>No. 18558
>>18557
Don't think Zun ever said anything about that. I've seen many ideas about what happened, on THP but just like the last answer. That's for the writer to decide.
>>No. 18559
>>18555
Well, these two aren’t much anything, least of all use. Oh well, I’ll manage. I’ll try to write up something for you today. Always better than updating.
>>No. 18560
File 138454740783.jpg - (195.93KB, 500x773, 19676865.jpg) [iqdb]
18560
Any tips for writing children/childish characters?
>>No. 18561
>>18560
Think like a child.
No seriously. That's how I do it. It might not work for you thought, but I dunno what else to tell you.
Just keep questioning yourself, "Would a child do/say/act like this?"

Someone likely have some better advice, but if things fail, try falling back on this until you find a way that works for you.
>>No. 18562
>>18560
Take grown-ups and remove the more complex social behaviours and inhibitions. Also, on the whole, children are egocentric and act on impulse.
>>No. 18563
File 138455271668.jpg - (389.46KB, 850x810, 1380471889299.jpg) [iqdb]
18563
>>18560

I have five imoutos. Being the oldest by seven or so years, you quickly become default story teller, so I have experience with writing kids.

Have any young siblings or cousins? Write how you see them, but give them more credit than you think they deserve. Kids are amazingly resourceful and attentive. A Wizard is You's Cirno has a child's personality and its written well. Best example I can give off the top of my head.

Oh, as for their language. Analyze how you write dialogue between "adult" characters, and then simplify it to say. Vocabulary is relative to your target audience. Have the child use slightly simpler sentences and vocabulary, but not a dramatic step down from between adults. Is it realistic? Of course not, but this is fiction. You're trying to tell a story.

Personality:

Naivete: Children barely have any sort of experience with real life, but this doesn't mean they're stupid, just ignorant of the darker side of things. This doesn't extend to "innocence" either. A child can have a complete loss of innocence at an early age, but still remain naive to social cues, cultures, and even things adults are expected to know.

Curiosity:
Buggers want to explore everything. Sense of adventure? Checked and running. Many kids novels are about some grand adventure for a good reason. It appeals to them. But remember, they know jack shit about responsibility and safety.

Implusive:

Kids. Are. Really. Fucking. Impulsive. Once they want to do something, they're going to do their damnedest to do it, even if it's dangerous or morally ambiguous as far as they can understand that. Also, kids tend to spend little time on one thing. Their attention shifts focus, many times, very quickly. While in one moment they'll be reading a book, they'll happily switch to drawing or running around at a heart beat. On that note, when they're awake, they're really active, but when they're tired, they'll complain about doing anything.

In many ways, writing kids is just like writing any other character, but with constraints. I suggest finding the function of their character development and then solving for its min/max using Lagrange multipliers Wrong subject. Write them as humans. They cry, they hurt, they pick themselves right back up and get back to playing. They have strong moments, weak moments and everything in between. Write them as rounded, developed characters and you'll be great.

If you want help, I'm on IRC.
>>No. 18564
>>18560
Study children behavior, whether this be from watching real children, or reading/viewing media that significantly involve children..
>>No. 18565
>>18563
Thanks mate, that was informative, I may scope you out when I hop on the IRC after I get to writing this damned thing.
>>No. 18570
>>18559
>>18559
Other fag here

I've read all of your works on this site

Including the stuff with the hairy legged lady.
>>No. 18571
File 138461135996.png - (66.39KB, 581x601, 39444766.png) [iqdb]
18571
Even the one about Renko and Maribel beating up people? Well, either way...

Slice of Life and romance. Two very peculiar genres, these. How so? This is a simple question. Slice of Life and romance differ from most other genres wherein their main drive is concerned – as they are seldom story-driven, meaning their attraction has to come from elsewhere than the overarching plot, the adventure or the world building.

The main point of interest of SoL and romance are the characters and their interactions. Upon closer examination, you will find it is they who stand on the centre stage of most SoL or romance stories. They are the main supporting pillar here. Sometimes the only. While an adventure story might get off scot-free with weak characters by sheer merit of its overarching storyline, a SoL story will crumble if your characters aren’t strong and well-developed enough. After all, it is them the story is about, and if they aren’t enough interesting or intriguing to hold your readers’ attention, well... You got yourself a boring story.

So how do you make sure these characters are good enough to keep your story engaging? First of all, they must be interesting. This sounds trite, I know; but there is little else I can say of creating interesting characters. This is entirely up to you, the writer, to come up with characters you consider funny, quirky, lovable or amusing enough to put in a story. You have to remember – this story will be following these characters almost 100% of the time. They have to be good enough to withstand the constant pressure of the narration. A one-dimensional character whose entire existence leans on a single quirk will quickly grow tiresome to watch. Thus, before anything else, you would be well-advised to think over your characters and make them something more than a single-faceted plot device or tool for gags.

Second of all, all stories need conflict. Whilst most stories will rely on their general plot to provide the conflict (Marisa stole the precious thing, Eirin’s shady new drug, Yukari is fucking around again, Reimu’s gone bananas and wants to do Gensokyo in), your source of conflict will, again, be your characters – their relationships and interactions. One source of conflict in a romance story might be a classic triangle/rectangle/harem setup. This one doesn’t need much explaining. One character takes the role of the point of contention, while the other two act as rivals. Adjust numbers as appropriate, add protrusions on the outside of the main shape, and you’ve got yourself a soap opera of the genuine kind. This is a simple setup, but still a very effective one, as evidenced by the sheer volume of stories founded upon this very pattern written and/or filmed so far.

With a single-pair setup, things are a little more intricate. In TiTS, most of the down-time from the main story (Garion’s search for his “mother”) is spent on observing Satori and Garion interact. These moments are, I think, interesting due to the clashing personalities of the two. Satori is haughty, but at once afraid of offending others due to her loneliness, while Garion is stiff and openly blunt to the point of indelicacy. While angry with this, Satori nevertheless does her best to win some reaction out of Garion (against her easily annoyed nature), while the latter clings to his rigid life guidelines and rationalises her every advance (against his suppressed attraction). The conflict here is twofold: the characters wrangle with one another, but also with their own inner worlds. This provides room for not only development of their relationship, but also their own characters. Throughout the story, Satori begins to see the use of acting selfish around the man (who nonetheless does not mind it, his principles overruling petty grudges), and Garion loses some of his edge, forgetting his nastier habits and even going so far as bending some of his rules. At the same time their relationship is made more and more intimate by regular development. It’s not just two characters realising their love and forming a bond – it’s two characters changing and maturing while realising their love and forming a bond. Their relationship changes, but so as well do they. They aren’t the same people at the end of the story as they were at the start. This parallel progress is what leads to what I consider a successful romance story.

Slice of life. Slice of life differs from romance in that its type of interaction isn’t of the romantic sort. There’s still conflict of clashing characters – only its source comes from, well, everyday life situations, as opposed to ones involving a lot of hearts going doki-doki. Say you are writing of Chen’s first day at school. Chen is excited to be let out of the confines of the Yakumo house and make friends, while Ran is worried sick for the well-being of her protégé. Chen wants to be left alone, finding Ran’s overbearing care needless and annoying, while Ran is so blinded by her CHEEEEEEENstincts she isn’t above lurking up on the rafters of the school to make sure Chen doesn’t get into any trouble. Once again, the point of interest here are the conflicting interests of the characters, and their clashing actions.

Now, a word about direction. Not being story-centric doesn’t mean a SoL/romance story shouldn’t have direction. Sure, love and everyday life rarely follow some divine and unbendable timetable of things (unlike plot-driven stories, which tend to follow that), but to make your story attractive to your readers, you must create a sense of direction and progression all the same. So before embarking on writing a SoL/romance story, despite not having an overarching storyline, try to draw up the general series of events the story will treat of. Make it apparent that the story is going somewhere and that it is going there, instead of endlessly looping around meaningless little gags and immaterial scenes of boring everyday routines. Do not begin a romance story with the main couple shilly-shallying with one another, only to toss in an unexplained love rival some time later. Start the story with the rivalry already going strong. Have the central conflict be present from the very start of the story. If you aren’t sure how to present such a setup, start the story with a in medias res introduction, then flash back to the “present day.” This will draw the reader’s attention since they will quite automatically wonder how the situation came to pass, being interested in the events that led up to it. Meaning they will likely want to read your story.

So, to summarise. Come up with actually interesting characters, you manga-copying, Mary Sue-writing, waifu-loving fag.

>B-BUT I HAVE SO MANY QUESHTCHONS!
Then ask away, you silly Billy. It’s not like I’m reading motherfucking books all damn day.
>>No. 18576
>>18571
>B-BUT I HAVE SO MANY QUESHTCHONS!
Sorry to disappoint you, Mr. foOl, but I don’t have any questions.
What you said filled in the blanks from what I’ve read elsewhere. Mainly the fact this had examples which could be understood.
>>No. 18577
If I to put my tongue on Cirno, would it stuck?
>>No. 18578
>>18577
That'll depend on how cold she is in that specific story.
Considering she’s flesh rather than metal the temp should have to be low enough to cause frostbite before you even got close enough to lick her.
>>No. 18579
File 138476297164.png - (142.71KB, 495x718, yes.png) [iqdb]
18579
>>18577
>>No. 18583
How much can you alter existing characters for the sake of the story?

Example: Would it be ‘all right’ to claim that the Hakurei clan were humans with youkai blood running through their veins, as an explanation as to why it’s them specifically that were needed for the barrier to be created, their powerful spiritual energy, etc.?
>>No. 18584
>>18583
As long as it doesn't outright contradict the canon material, or creates family bonds for two canonically unrelated characters (Maribel/Yukari and Renko/Reimu not withstanding), you should be able to do it. Thankfully, Touhou canon is very vague and gives us writers a lot of leeway to make up our own explanations. Bear in mind that said explanations still need to make sense in-story.
>>No. 18585
In other words, sure, as long as you can justify it and make it believable.
>>No. 18586
>>18583
An addendum to >>18584: honestly, feel free to ignore canon if you need to for your story- you should, however, make it clear that you're diverting from canon (preferably in-story without doing an infodump, but that's not always possible).

The thing to really avoid is going "fuck canon" altogether. "Adjusting" parts of canon to make your story work? Perfectly fine, I've done that on my stories. Ignoring canon altogether? Well, that's significantly less recommended.
>>No. 18587
>>18586
One could see it as the matter of respecting canon or not. If it doesn't respect canon then you should avoid it.
>>No. 18595
If I reached a good stopping point for a chapter, but don't have any choices to give, what should i do? make one of this "illusionary choices"?
>>No. 18597
>>18595
You don't have to, not every update needs to have a choice at the end. And "illusionary choices" as you call them are generally ill-regarded, since the whole point of CYOAs is that the readers' choices must have an impact in the story.
>>No. 18599
>>18543
>implying the story's not about romancing Wriggle
>>No. 18600
>>18597
What if I'm following the Bioware method?
>>No. 18601
>>18600
>“Would you like some tea, Mr Protagonist?”
>[X] “Thanks, but no.”
>Rivalry +5
>>No. 18603
>>18487

Is there anything good Completed on this site in the third person?

Seems like most are first or second person.
>>No. 18604
>>18603
Not completed yet, but >>/others/56217 updates at least once a day, it's written in third person (except for journal entries) and I believe it's worth a read.

Though I'd recommend reading this back-up of the first thread before: http://pastebin.com/92fgH1vV , since there was some wonky metagaming shit going on at the end and it got erased.
>>No. 18605
File 13851456473.jpg - (65.17KB, 653x786, image.jpg) [iqdb]
18605
>>18601
I should go.
>>No. 18606
>>18603
I know of one completed story (even with a sequel!), but it is full of unprovoked hatred and senseless violence, so I wouldn’t recommend it.
>>No. 18612
>>18606
I'm not the same anon, but could you explain further? I'm curious.
>>No. 18617
>>18612
I lied. That story is actually full of alternate universe nonsense and sci-fi technobabble. So yes, I don’t recommend it.
>>No. 18620
What are things you can do to speed-up pacing?
>>No. 18621
File 138538328831.jpg - (321.67KB, 939x850, PLOT comes a`knocking.jpg) [iqdb]
18621
>>18620
Timeskips are an obvious option for getting to the next important scene. The problem is that readers tend to dislike them, especially if your day-to-day interactions are a strong point of your story. A timeskip also means less time for the readers to interact with their favorite characters, something they like even less. In most cases, a timeskip should be voted upon rather than simply done. Of course, if your protagonist is unconscious or busy or whatever, you can easily justify a skip.

A related option is something sort of like a timeskip, but not quite. I don't know what to call it, so I'll go with timesprint. Essentially, this is a cursory glance at what happens in a fairly brief period, maybe a few hours or days, which is interspersed with scenes. Say the protagonist is looking for some particular bit of information in Patchouli's library. Maybe the search takes all afternoon, with occasional comments and bits of dialogue. Or it could take days, with a couple scenes occurring within it, such as having Tea with Patchouli one night and flirting with Koakuma as she helps with the search. During this time, you speed things up if you offer few to no choices.

Third is Acceleration. For this one, I assume you have a plot laid out (You damn well better, if you have any hope of finishing the story). Essentially, you look at when events should occur and move them up a fair bit. That plot point everyone has been putting off to waifu Sanae? Kanako just moved up the launch date for PROJECT YATAGARASU to tomorrow. If certain plot points don't specifically have to happen in order, feel free to trigger a few in rapid succession. In this example, that might be the tengu mobilizing their forces and a couple Kappa anarchists trying to sabotage the project. If things aren't progressing, you have the plot throw a brick through the window.
>>No. 18622
What would you say is the basic preparation that has to be done before starting a story?
I'm not asking for anything specific, but rather just the overall basics.
>>No. 18623
Know what you want to write and how you want to write it.

In other words, have a concept that you enjoy, whether it is some grand plot or some slice-of-life theme. Then have a plan for it. You can go full on world building, create some sort of outline, bullet out a few scenes you really want to write, whatever.

I think most things in your story are up for experimentation, but the overarching goal and some way to get there are enough to keep you motivated and on track. (Motivation - that's also really important. Don't drop your story, come hell or high water! Writing through those tough times will help you grow vastly more than one you're on a writing high.)
>>No. 18624
>>18622
I addition to >>18623, I would say make sure you have a stable writing schedule. It's not required, but if you keep yourself to a schedule it's easier to stay in "writing mode." If you try update "whenever you feel like it," more often than not you won't feel like it.
>>No. 18625
Routelocking

How early is too early?

When's the appropriate time to do so?

Should I warn of a routelock choice before so or are blind routelocks acceptable?
>>No. 18626
OC villains. How to write them well.

Especially if they are powerful as fuck.
>>No. 18627
>>18626
The Touhou series itself is well-known for introducing new villains constantly. Look to it for inspiration
>>No. 18628
>>18625

Routelock votes are among the most controversial ones you'll have, since they permanently alter some of your story's most important parameters. As a result, I would not recommend a "blind" routelock under any circumstances.

I'd also say that the route-able characters should all get a fair shake before you spring a choice like that. Otherwise, you'll have people who want to be with the character competing against people who like the character but don't yet want to commit.
>>No. 18629
I often come up with a great concept for a story, yet I'm not sure if i could pull it off until the end with my current writing skill (and schedule). i there any place here where i can give my ideas to an actually competent writer with some free time?
>>No. 18630
>>18629
Friends, IRC, do it yourself because practice makes perfect.
>>No. 18631
>>18625
>How early is too early?
Never. You may even lock so early as before the start of the story. Or make it clear that there’s only one valid target. That sure heads off the inane naval warfare bickering.

Every route is a Reimu route.
>>No. 18632
>>18627
Well, Touhou villains aren't exactly "serious" villains. And they get easily beaten by Reimu in the end.
>>No. 18633
>>18631

>>18625 is right. If the MC is living with Reimu but is dating Mokou somehow, then by god DON'T leave us out in the dark as we dive headlong into Reimu route. Make sure any existing relationships are stated outright from the beginning, or upon that characters first introduction.

I would advise against doing a "Blind Route-Lock" because it would probably earn you some hate. I'd also advise against being a pussy like me and give them the option to back out when things go south. This totally isn't my reluctance to actually commit to one character, no siree.

Of course, depending on the story you could do a route-lock that changes the course of the story rather than a relationship. These would probably best be done without telling your readers. For example:

A story where you the MC is half-youkai and lives in the Myouren Temple. Sounds like a Harem comedy just waiting to happen, right? Wrong. Actions the MC does will affect how the Temple is viewed and negative publicity would take the story down a darker path, while positive publicity would take it down a lighter route. Of course there would be a middle ground as well. But after the first "Act" things will change, depending on the path they took.

I don't think I've seen a story where this kind "route-locking" occurred, but it sounds interesting. To me at least.

Oh, I'd also avoid leaning to heavy on one character. Especially if you want to give everyone else a chance to be picked. I kinda screwed up there for Myouren Academy and WASTED and I'm sort of in the process of trying to get people to wonder if they made the wrong choice. It doesn't help that I have no sense of pacing and natural relationship advancement

Also, >>18625
>Every route is a Reimu route.
Except when it's not.
>>No. 18634
>>18629
If you're unsure about your writing speed, then make an abridged version (easily done if you remove all the faffing about and superfluous details) finish it until the end, and then post it in /shorts/

See the reception it gets, write down the time it takes you to finish a chunk of words that could pass as an update and, with those numbers, pick a time of your life when you're more or less free and go for it.

Or you could start whenever you want, waste two threads without going anywhere, and then leave the story with no warning whatsoever. That's the THP way.
>>No. 18635
File 138548409710.png - (81.27KB, 409x406, i hate this.png) [iqdb]
18635
>>18633
>Except when it's not.
No! You do not understand!
>>No. 18636
>>18634
Or slow down to once-a-month update speed fifteen threads in when the plot is not even halfway done so that by the time the project is complete all of its original readers are dead.
>>No. 18637
>>18633
It's not so much as a character route lock as it is a plot one (although who you get more/less character interaction is obviously affected)

Closest example is probably the Law, Neutral, and Chaos splits in SMT.
>>No. 18638
>>18626
2hu villains are generally less malicious and more just self-centered dicks. Though, in spite of their dickery, they're generally more empathetic than any of the playable characters.

Also, don't come up with villains that can "outmatch" Reimu. Those are canonically ridiculous, and people will point and laugh at you.
>>No. 18639
>>18638
>Reimu can't be beat, EVER.

Please stop wanking Toohoos.
>>No. 18640
>>18637
If that's the case, I personally would let them know in the beginning that their actions can impact the flow of the story. You could easily just not tell them and as long as it doesn't drastically change it should be fine.

>>18635
>Tenshi is in this story That is all.
>>No. 18641
File 138551269340.gif - (1.07MB, 250x187, colbert terrified.gif) [iqdb]
18641
>>18640
Shots. Fired.
>>No. 18642
>>18639
Okay, I'll admit that's taking it a tad far, but you have to admit that it'd be ridiculous to have an OC villain that could just wipe the floor with her.
>>No. 18643
File 138553250496.jpg - (95.72KB, 578x718, image-740200391.jpg) [iqdb]
18643
>>18640
>implying that’s not a stealth Reimu story
Got you!
>>No. 18644
>>18643
>Implying that wasn't just an asspull to save face
>Implying I care
>Implying I read your stuff to back any of this up
>Implying Implications
>>No. 18645
File 138553873164.gif - (1.77MB, 312x234, 2013.gif) [iqdb]
18645
>>18643
>>18644
>>No. 18646
>>18642
How about this?

Big bad boss OC villain can only be defeated by top-tier Touhou characters working together.
>>No. 18647
File 138554536757.png - (70.99KB, 749x940, birthday_satori.png) [iqdb]
18647
>>18644
>implying I didn’t just double trick you
Shit, nigga.
>>No. 18648
>>18646
What would such a thing entail? Are we talking a generic "evil overlord" character who's just so OP that it requires the power of friendship and ass-pulls to defeat him/her? An unfeeling cosmic horror threatening to devour everyone's sanity? An encroaching parallel universe?
>>No. 18649
>>18648
A really, really strong god.
>>No. 18650
>>18648
Youmu's Journey on /others/ had something like this

if you want to be horrible you can just use the Moon Sisters + Lunar Capital OCs though.

No one has seriously considered a corrupted version of the Dragon or Eiki? Shikieiki has been stated on record to be hella hella hella powerful in comparison to the rest of the cast outside the spellcard rules
>>No. 18665
>>18650

Actually, there's a story on /at/ that has a corrupted Eiki as the villain.
>>No. 18671
>>18665

Name please, not for the porn, but for the evil judge of the dead. Which honestly sounds pretty fucking scary.
>>No. 18672
Any advice on what kind of stories a newbie writer should write first? The easy, idiot-proof one that wouldn't be too terrible if the writer is a hack?
>>No. 18673
>>18672
Take an existing work and twist it to your needs.

Alternatively, make a clear guideline in your head for how long you want the story to last and what you want to accomplish in that time-frame.
>>No. 18675
>>18673
>Take an existing work and twist it to your needs.

And for a not-completely-newbie-but-still-terrible writers, go to any of your old works and read the fuck out of it.

If you can survive that, then rewrite that nauseating piece of trash.

And then post in on /shorts/
>>No. 18680
>>18675
Reading old works is the number one cause of suicide among writers.
>>No. 18681
Where could I get a proofreader?
>>No. 18682
File 138574129385.jpg - (388.86KB, 1012x1367, Billy_Mays_Portrait_Cropped.jpg) [iqdb]
18682
>>18681
Are you on the IRC? Get on the IRC! The official THP IRC! You’ll never have to post an update with typos again! Just place your Touhou fanfiction update in a pastebin, just toss, and go! It stays in the pastebin, while a proofreader cleans over a hundred typos. Writing just got easier!

That’s right! It’s so easy, even Taisa can update his story! Its community-driven formula delivers fixes and advice throughout your writing cycle, righting and improving your story. I know what you’re thinking. “What about returning the favour?” Watch this.

Ordinary communities use artificial currency systems, but the Tea Hat Party community helps you out without demanding recompense.

So get on the IRC! The official THP IRC. I guarantee it!
>>No. 18683
>>18681
IRC. You may have trouble finding a consistent proofreader, but as long as you keep pestering people you'll find someone. Or if you aren't ashamed of writing famfiction then ask a friend to look it over for you.
>>No. 18684
>>18682
Well, i went to IRC and Ninny asked 'Whose eyes are those eyes?'

what's that about?
>>No. 18685
>>18684
Tell him that if he loves you, he should let you know.
>>No. 18686
File 138576128544.jpg - (159.17KB, 850x638, image.jpg) [iqdb]
18686
>>18682
> It's so easy, even taisa can update his story!
>>No. 18687
File 138576774084.gif - (255.26KB, 500x236, ahaha what a joke.gif) [iqdb]
18687
>>18682
>Its community-driven formula delivers fixes and advice throughout your writing cycle, righting and improving your story.
>righting and improving your story
>improving
>IRC
>>No. 18688
>>18682
>You’ll never have to post an update with typos again!

Fixed.
>>No. 18690
>>18684
If you went in #THP then it's obvious you wouldn't be able to get much help.
I'd recommend going to one of the 'unofficial' sub channels (aka where a lot of the guys from this site usually hangs around), such as #Eientei, it may be kinda dead at the moment, but there are a few of us who'd respond if you asked around in there. Then there's #Touhouporn, don't let the name fool you. While the writers hanging around there are mostly from /at/ they're writers who knows what they're doing nonetheless, and since it's a calmer channel than #THP you might actually be able to ask for help and get it.
>>No. 18691
>>18684
Chaos Head
>>No. 18692
>>18681
I'm willing to proofread for people, but just don't expect me to fix your apostrophes I seem to have a lot of trouble with those for some reason. I go by Bar_Keep on the IRC, so if you want me to proofread something send me a PM.
>>No. 18693
>>18690

YOU MEAN PEOPLE IN #THP MIGHT BE TALKING ABOUT THINGS UNRELATED TO ME EVEN BEFORE I JOIN THE CHANNEL?

YOU MEAN #THP ISN'T TOTALLY DEDICATED TO ME AS CONTRARY TO MY SOLIPSISTIC WORLDVIEW?

If you take a few seconds to introduce yourself and say hi, there's at least a few people on who will drop the unrelated conversations and help you. It's a general chat, not a purpose-made help desk.
>>No. 18694
>>18692
Thanks. Maybe I will.

that said, can anyone tell me the basic plot of ufo and ten desires? I've read some synopsis and backstories, but still can't understand the relation between the buddhist and the taoist.
>>No. 18696
>>18694
Taoists practice Taoism for personal power/immortality, but cause Buddhism to spread across Japan in order to manipulate the people.

Actual Buddhists interrupted their ritual for immortality and sealed them in the Mausoleum.

Byakuren, a Buddhist, gets sealed in Makai for getting too friendly with youkai. UFO is her friends/subordinates/disciples working to free her. At the end of the game, the Buddhists drop their magic flying ship and turn it into a temple.

That temple turns out to be on top of the Taoists Mausoleum. Queue Ten Desires, when the Taoists start to wake up and find a temple on top of their home.
>>No. 18698
File 138588163324.png - (108.01KB, 1022x654, sneak attack.png) [iqdb]
18698
>>18694
Well, UFO kicked off because The geysers Utsuho was causing in SA loosed most of the Myouren Temple cast from their respective hellish prisons. That was caused by Kanako being irresponsible and terrible, but I'll assume you already knew that.

The plot of UFO is the Temple cast hunting down pieces of their flying ship which are the little UFO pieces you collect throughout the game. They look like that because Nue used her power on them, causing them to look like whatever one would expect flying objects to look like. The protagonists aren't expecting floating pieces of wood or whatever, so they default to stereotypical UFOs. The protagonists unwittingly gathering them allows the ship to breach Makai and eventually free Byakuren. After that, they track down Nue to figure out what the hell was going on in the first place. At the end, Byakuren converts the flying ship into a temple with some help from Kanako.

Thus begins TD. Desire spirits start appearing, flocking to Miko because her power allows her to hear them. Miko's resurrection is triggered by Byakuren's temple being built over her mausoleum and herself becoming more myth than historical figure and thus entering Gensokyo. Alternately, the mausoleum appears under the temple because a Buddhist temple was built over her mausoleum in the outside, thus mandating the same circumstance to manifest in Gensokyo. Whatever the case, the Taoists get a beatdown from the protagonists and then move to their weird between-the-cracks dimension. Meanwhile, Nue calls in Mamizou because Miko is an enemy to youkai.

How this ties together is Miko's background. Seiga teaches the Taoists to be Taoists and may have had a part in Miko's plans. The Taoists spread Buddhism throughout Japan as a tool to subjugate the people. Buddhists are supposed to be pacifists, so they won't rise up against their immortal Taoist overlords. Miko and her followers do the weird death-faking ritual to become immortal. Futo sabotages Tojiko's ritual because she's (Futo is) kind of a bitch and they have some family blood-feud thing going on, thus killing Tojiko. Miko's plans to become the Immortal God-Emperor of Japan are foiled by Buddhists building a temple over her resting place to memorialize her as a saint, unwittingly denying her resurrection. (I don't believe it ever said if Seiga was in stasis with the other Taoists, but I favor not.)

The conflict between the Myouren Temple and Taoists is due to several factors. Miko sees Buddhism as just a tool and believers as people she's manipulated. Byakuren acttually seems to use Buddhism more as a means for integration than an end in and of itself, but doesn't like people shittalking her religion. Additionally, Byakuren is a youkai sympathizer while Miko is decidedly more pro-human. And lastly, the two are competing for faith.
>>No. 18704
File 138591250210.png - (851.68KB, 708x1062, 38884128_p3.png) [iqdb]
18704
>>18698
Long story short, Byakuren is a racialist bitch, while Miko is our lord and saviour.

Miko stories where?
>>No. 18705
>>18704

YAF, you sounds like a great guy. why does people think that you are an asshole?

And I think that the internet needs more Miko hentais. especially in the yuri genre.
>>No. 18706
>>18705
Byakuren sympathisers, duh.
>>No. 18707
File 13859185594.jpg - (696.75KB, 800x950, 4d47672b4a1742007a85357e4e7dc74a.jpg) [iqdb]
18707
>>18706

Guilty as charged.
>>No. 18708
>>18704
You have that backwards there buddy. Byakuren promotes peace between everyone. Miko, well, she is pretty much the embodiment of "Humanity, Fuck YEAH!" in Gensokyo.
>>No. 18709
File 138592204330.jpg - (58.20KB, 640x360, not this shit again.jpg) [iqdb]
18709
>>18704
>>18706
>>18707
>>18708
Oh please, let's not start another discussion about the girls, much less in the Writing Advice Thread.

Raiko is best 2hoo.
>>No. 18710
File 138592242272.jpg - (101.59KB, 499x468, itsaysyoureaheretic.jpg) [iqdb]
18710
>>18708
>Rather than that, you should be worried about her youkai followers. Of the youkai that visit the temple, there are a number that clearly violate the teachings. Apparently, there are youkai that are aiming to obtain power like hers, as well as those that target the humans visiting the graveyard.
Byakuren shrouds herself in a cloak of benevolence while her disciples do the dirty work for her. You are deep in her net, my friend.
>>No. 18711
>>18710
Your quote only shows that her followers are terrible Buddhists. But the Taoists are no better. They resort to underhanded trickery, much like the Moriyas.
>>No. 18712
>>18711
You believe Byakuren does nothing about this supposed insubordination because she doesn’t know about it? Oh, please. She has ears everywhere. More likely she secretly condones the youkai asserting their dominance over mankind. Even if it is ill-informed.
>>No. 18713
File 138592557279.jpg - (56.99KB, 500x485, cat-watermelon-lake.jpg) [iqdb]
18713
>>18712
That, or she's just far to nice to lay down the law. The only reason she was the final boss in UFO was because the player character attacked first and was trying to keep her sealed.

<-----This picture for all of your arguments.
>>No. 18715
File 138592707592.jpg - (367.27KB, 695x900, 4c67b91ed1973ab59a683cbcd43e02e7.jpg) [iqdb]
18715
>>18713
>far too nice
Her influence runs deep, I see. You are beyond salvation. It is my hope that our good lady Miko heals you of your delusion in the end. She weeps for your immortal soul, you know.
>>No. 18716
>>18715
But Miko has stupid hair, and her headphones are stupid. Her cape is her only redeeming factor now.
>>No. 18717
File 138592863574.jpg - (50.63KB, 826x667, codex astartes does not support this action.jpg) [iqdb]
18717
>>18716
>>No. 18718
>>18717
Ran out of quips already? So sad...
>>No. 18719
File 138593095141.jpg - (27.24KB, 180x168, is this heretical.jpg) [iqdb]
18719
>>18718
I have no quips for those who insult our lady’s hair. Only scorn.
>>No. 18720
>>18694
What the fuck happened while I was gone?
>>No. 18721
>>18720
YAF
>>No. 18723
File 138594156090.png - (26.34KB, 273x184, gap.png) [iqdb]
18723
>>18716
>>No. 18724
>>18698
it's implied that those Buddhists did so intentionally as to ensure Buddhism's hold on power. Likewise with where Byakuren set the temple down.

Miko's issue with Buddhists is that "they claim to be good but aren't" while Miko herself doesn't hold to any illusions or pretenses.
>>No. 18734
>>18708
>Miko, well, she is pretty much the embodiment of "Humanity, Fuck YEAH!" in Gensokyo.

Not if you actually bothered to read SoPM, where she pretty much gave up on the whole thing.
>>No. 18735
Is there really anything that can be done for >>/others/56822?

I mean, the story has more ellipses than lines in the story. That worries me.
>>No. 18736
>>18734

Meanwhile, the Yakumo-Hakurei Combine quietly laughs at their petty disputes, for it is the only true power in Gensokyo. Because if the Barrier goes down, then it's all over.
>>No. 18737
>>18736
Now I want to read a story where the Barrier goes down and everyone panics.
>>No. 18739
>>18737

- In the year 2016, the Hakurei Barrier finally goes down. Gensokyo relocates to previously organized backup locations in the Congo, because there's no real government over there.

- In the year 2017, Gensokyean forces, backed by magical weaponry and literal divine aid, swiftly and brutally crush all other warring factions. Living conditions improve as the Congo effectively becomes New Gensokyo. United Nations goes nuts as footage surface of youkai soldiers devouring their fallen enemies as well as many WMDs being used, like the "Master Spark" which was used to reduce an entire platoon of infantry (as well as a few unfortunate civilians) to ash. Photo of Yuuka posing with a bunch of severed warlord heads speared on her umbrella becomes viral.

-2018 - New Gensokyo begins subjugating neighboring countries through both subterfuge and open rebellions.

-2035 - Half of Africa is now part of the New Gensokyo Dominion. Fueled by its magical capabilities, it eclipses the USA as a new superpower.

-2036 - The Second Cold War begins.
>>No. 18741
>>18739
>"Master Spark" which was used to reduce an entire platoon of infantry (as well as a few unfortunate civilians) to ash.
And then you realised that this is nothing compared to the capabilities of modern tools of war.

Pro-youkai scum are the worst.
>>No. 18742
>>18741

Meh, they have nuclear, chemical, and biological capacities too anyway. Never said they were the good guys.
>>No. 18743
>>18742
>Never said they were the good guys.

Are you a bad enough dude to save humanity from Gensokyo's menace?
>>No. 18747
>>18734
She's lazy as fuck for someone who plotted for immortality.

'So, the status quo is human=cattle? Oh well, too bad'
>>No. 18748
>>18747

Native Gensokyo humans are more like the rangers to the youkai, who are like Siberian tigers in that they are occasionally dangerous and incredibly extinct-prone due to being reliant on human belief to exist, and it's been stated that the average native human is more powerful than the average youkai.

Of course, Yukari tosses in food humans every once in a while (the true "cattle"), but nobody in SoPM, not even Miko, cares about them. I don't really see anything wrong with it either, assuming she's mostly dumping criminals or politicians or bankers or something.
>>No. 18749
>>18748
>I don't really see anything wrong with it either, assuming she's mostly dumping criminals or politicians or bankers or something.

Oh, what I won't give for AWiY to continue.
>>No. 18750
>>18749
Oh what I wouldn't give for Deme to just say he's dropped Wizard outright and continue infrequently updating on another board like he's been doing.
>>No. 18752
Is lack of discussion in voting periods a bad thing? Or should one be thankful they're avoiding situations like GH or MMMM thread 2?
>>No. 18753
>>18748
Oh, people would contend that one. AWiY's Remilia arc.
>>No. 18754
>>18752
It depends greatly on how pants-on-head retarded your readers may or may not be. You don't want numbskulls encouraging other numbskulls to bandwagon for idiotic reasons.
>>No. 18755
>>18752
That depends on ~your feelings~
>>No. 18756
>>18755

The other stories on the same board have hella more discussion, perhaps it's a tell of how shallow the concept really was. There may or may not be a complex developing over this. But it's not something that would stop me from finishing it.

>>No. 18757
>>18752
The hell is MMMM?
>>No. 18758
>>18757
That Marisa library story on /shrine/

Can't be assed to remember the full title.
>>No. 18759
>>18749
>>18750
It would be extremely disappointing for a long running story to get canned for no apparent reason, and just when shit was about to get real, even.

I hope Demetrius gets his shit together, never understood why that story in particular caused so much rage.
>>No. 18764
Can anyone tell me everything that needs to be known about Seiga and Yoshika? I'm not too familiar about those two...what are their story?
>>No. 18767
>>18764
http://en.touhouwiki.net

Do your research there.
>>No. 18768
>>18767
If I haven't read that, I wouldn't ask.
>>No. 18787
>>18768
If you have read it, then why are you still asking? Aside from ZUN himself, there's not really anything anyone can tell you that you can't read for yourself on the wiki. That is pretty much all the information there is about them.

Frankly, and don't take this the wrong way, but "tell me everything there is to know about ________" isn't generally the sort of thing someone asks if they've already read up on a subject. It's the sort of thing people ask so they don't have to read up on it in the first place. Now, I honestly hope that's not the case, here, but that is sorta how it looks to me.
>>No. 18788
Well, I know most of the thing about seiga. From her faking death, and her reason to practice tao. I also understand she's miko's master or something. I just don't really get what's her role in Ten Desires
>>No. 18798
>>18759
If you haven't noticed, every story seems to die after a level of character development has been reached AND/or the writer tries to start a new "arc".

It's kinda eerie if you think about it, because the main cause isn't always writer fatigue. Real life maims the author is common too. Fuck traffic accidents & illness etc
>>No. 18808
>>18798
This is because they don’t plan out. Usually they start a story with a singular idea in mind, like “Khornate berzerker in Gensokyo,” or “The Great Barrier falls, everyone gets on the floor,” or “Let’s get down Sakuya’s pants without contracting herpes” and literally nothing else. Once the idea gets executed (and since it is rarely good enough to warrant being the central plot), they see they have nothing to proceed towards anymore, and the story gradually suffocates.

You have to be working toward something. You have to want to achieve it. Otherwise it’ll be an exercise in blind rambling.
>>No. 18810
>>18808
This.

I have lots of ideas but I could never outline them properly.
>>No. 18811
>>18759
>Deme
OH LOOK WHO'S THAT ASSHOLE STARTING A NEW STORY ON /at/!
>>No. 18812
>>18810
Then lets turn it into a workable question.
"How to properly outline an idea?" or something along those lines.
>>No. 18813
>>18812
I always have difficulty writing down specific plot points in the story. I'm often worried whether my readers will buy it or they will call it a plot contrivance.
>>No. 18814
>>18813
Whatever works, works. Besides the major parts of the plot (including how it starts, the general of what happens and how it'll end), I tend to make up the smaller things as I go. This usually turns out for the better when writing a CYOA as the plot twists around the choices Anon makes.
Either that or I let my subconscience take care of that, but it's not something I recommend for various reasons
>>No. 18815
>>18811
>OH LOOK WHO'S THAT ASSHOLE STARTING A NEW STORY ON /at/!
Oh fuck.
>>No. 18816
>>18813
We covered a similar topic in the previous thread; you might want to check it out.

>>18123
>>17950
>>18067
>>No. 18817
>read an awesome fic
>makes you want to write something like that
>proceed to write for 5 minutes before realizing that your fic's shit compared to it

Goddamnit, I wish I could replicate somebody's writing style perfectly just by reading his story.
>>No. 18820
So, what can you guys tell me about /th/?
>>No. 18821
>>18820
It's been better.
>>No. 18822
>>18820
Although most people here would tell you that /th/ is the board where the most shitty stories are nowadays, I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. This stems from the fact that many new writers start they first stories here in that board. Since they usually haven't a grasp on how to properly write a CYOA, they tend to be of low quality for our 'elitist standards', or to be dropped very soon.

However, there are a few good stories among the pile of dead and/or mediocre threads, like every other board. The problem is that, due to the massive traffic, they tend to be overshadowed by the rest, and so you might have to search beyond the frontpage to find them.

tl;dr /th/ is our particular instance of Sturgeon's Law. Look carefully to find the 10% of non-crud.
>>No. 18823
>>18822

So, it's like a Rite of Passage for a new writer, or something like an experimental ground, is that so?
>>No. 18824
>>18823
Not exactly. /th/ is the general board, in theory reserved for all stories that do not take place in a place or with a cast in particular, for example the 'You appear in Gensokyo' and the 'X in Gensokyo' adventures. Most new writers tend to start with one of these because it's allegedly easier, and that's the reason you see many 'first stories' at /th/. (Grave mistake. It's actually quite hard to manage such a degree of freedom for the first time. That's why so many amateurs end up dropping those stories.)
>>No. 18825
>>18822
>>18824
Then what does that make /others/ ?
>>No. 18826
>>18825
The miscellaneous. The experimental grounds you referred to earlier. The inverse of the 'X in Gensokyo' stories (e.g: 'Touhou in X'). Really, anything that does not fit in the other boards yet is still long enough to not be considered a short.
>>No. 18827
>>18826
Except for my story. It probably doesn't belong in others anymore. But I won't lose sleep over that.
>>No. 18828
>>18822
It doesn't help that all these newbie stories combined with a chunk of readers who don't read anything but /th/ has sort of resulted in a potentially terrible readerbase.

These days I don't read much from /th/ because the high odds of bad quality and/or short lifespan.

>>18824
They also do that because "/th/ has more readers" (without considering the quality of said readers). This in turn leads to people reading /th/ because of "most stories". But what you said is very true.

>>18826
generally a place for AU's and such, though it's not a hard rule.
>>No. 18829
So, I'm having difficulty in writing psychopathic characters like Yuuka, since I intend to write it third person limited focused on her.

Can't seem to get it right without making her just full-on crazy instead of the reserved crazy she should be.
>>No. 18830
>>18829
The way I think of "reserved crazy" is that it'd be written completely like the narration of a normal person would, except with unorthodox values.

So Yuuka still enjoys humming to herself as she waters, drinking tea, and so on as much as the next person, but she also thinks it completely natural to eviscerate people who harm her flower field and spread their remains around as fertilizer. She wouldn't even think about it unless reminded, and it'd be in the same sense you think "oh yeah, I remembered to feed my pet."

Hopefully that helps.
>>No. 18831
>>18830

'Reserved crazy' huh? so that's what i've been writing all this time! I like this kind of character!

Basically, all you need to do is writing a normal, sensible, well mannered character, but with somewhat different moral code.

something like "Damn, I've just run over a cat. i wonder if it's delicious? should i roast it or..?"
>>No. 18835
>>18816
Oi Yaf, going back to that bit you wrote on SoL, can you impart any advice on developing characters over longer works in ways that aren't contrived/are plausible?
I'm aware that character actions are the product of several drives or conflicts from different levels of personality, but how do you factor that in when relationships/motives begin to change?
>>No. 18838
File 138643684480.jpg - (37.08KB, 400x400, come at me.jpg) [iqdb]
18838
>>18835
THAT’S NO WAY TO TALK TO A HERO! You will address me as “Admiral Confucius Dooknook vel Yaffinsky” if you want my attention. You will also compose your questions better because my GREAT AND LIMITLESS mind is unable to comprehend them under the layer of SHEER PLEBBINESS.

Yes, I want fries with that.
>>No. 18841
File 138644102354.jpg - (583.10KB, 1024x768, Don't_Fuck_With_Hijiri.jpg) [iqdb]
18841
>>18838
Get over yourself YAF. He's asking for advice and you're being an ass about it. We shouldn't have to sink down to your level just because we have a question. You're a good person to get advice from, but you really need to stop acting like a superior twit.
>>No. 18842
File 138644234671.png - (15.17KB, 300x300, sound off like you got a pair.png) [iqdb]
18842
>>18838
Son, I will call you Princess Snowball von Rimjob from the Planet of Faggotron and you will LIKE it.
>>No. 18843
File 138644354289.jpg - (265.97KB, 557x598, dio_checkmate.jpg) [iqdb]
18843
>>18841
A MONKEY SHOULD NOT INSULT A HUMAN.

YOU ARE A MONKEY.
>>No. 18844
File 138644478915.jpg - (123.25KB, 1028x577, dio_you-came.jpg) [iqdb]
18844
>>18843
Wait, fuckapples. That’s the wrong Dio.

Here we go. MONKEYS.
>>No. 18845
File 138644519588.jpg - (675.24KB, 800x780, She_Deserved_This.jpg) [iqdb]
18845
>>18844
Only a real monkey could make such a mistake. Why don't you stop throwing your shit around and act like a proper human being? I'm sure we would all enjoy your company more if you did so.
>>No. 18847
File 138644692468.jpg - (184.20KB, 466x526, dio_very_pleased.jpg) [iqdb]
18847
>>18845
ZA WALDO

UPDATES HAVE STOPPED
>>No. 18848
File 138644718011.jpg - (140.65KB, 673x549, Best_End.jpg) [iqdb]
18848
>>18847
I didn't even now that you were actually updating anything worth caring about.
>>No. 18849
>>18838
Holy shit just go away.
>>No. 18851
File 138646075275.jpg - (89.36KB, 700x718, 1368681343399.jpg) [iqdb]
18851
>>18838
I was asking the best way to go about making character developments and relationship changes fluid in a long story.
Also, fuck you shiteyes, you ought to be peeled, salted, and dragged through the streets to be used as a jizz-rag for bonobos in heat if it weren't for your only saving grace Satori.
>>No. 18852
Why does literally everyone take YAF seriously 100% of the time? I'm pretty sure he's fucking with you guys right now and your falling straight into his trap. The masters of falling for it.
>>No. 18853
I think it's the opposite, no one really takes him seriously save for his advice on writing.
>>No. 18854
>>18853
And yet here we have people who are getting buttmad over him. Looks like he's being taken seriously to me.
>>No. 18855
>>18847
What updates?
>>No. 18857
File 13864627392.gif - (243.29KB, 200x137, lotrhahaha.gif) [iqdb]
18857
>>18853
>no one takes YAF seriously
>>No. 18858
>>18853
>taking Yaf's writing advice seriously

It's about half decent and half crap.
>>No. 18860
>>18858
In the land of the blind...

Anyway, I know we got a lot of new blood around October, but it should be obvious that YAF, not unlike Doublelift, Colbert or The Onion, should not be taken seriously.
>>No. 18862
>>18854
I don't think anyone actually spouts shit like>>18851 when they get mad. He may just be dicking around. Or may actually be mad--not too sure on that.
>>No. 18863
>>18862

Ah, Poe's law at its finest.
>>No. 18864
File 138652514474.jpg - (40.65KB, 237x229, 1353965501738.jpg) [iqdb]
18864
>>18851
>fuck you shiteyes, you ought to be peeled, salted, and dragged through the streets to be used as a jizz-rag for bonobos in heat
This is the only correct reply in the entire fucking thread. Monkeys, all of you.


Anyhow. The question.
>making character developments and relationship changes fluid in a long story
You don’t. That’s not how development works. Any kind of development or progress is a response to a problem. A conflict, in story terms. It does not have to be the main, overarching conflict, but it does have to be one. SoL generally relies on minor conflicts throughout the story to provide catalysts for character development (and to generally hold the readers’ interest) – most often these are small interpersonal differences which drive the characters involved to evolve.

Point in case. Let’s say you’re writing a couple with an already-established relationship. This does not mean they can’t progress further. Toss them into a situation where they disagree about something (anything, really), and have to come to a consensus. To do so, they will inevitably have to overcome their own inner conflict. Coming out of this and arriving at a decision will have seen them develop just a bit further. This can also be done with aid of secondary characters. Say Marisa wants No-Face-Wanks-in-Socks McFuck to meet her parents, but the man gets cold feet about this leap in their relationship. Obviously they will fall out. Marisa might cry about this to one of her friends – say, Reimu. This one might notify one of McFuck’s closer buddies. While Reimu comforts Marisa, McFuck gets a telling from his pal. Finally, McFuck sees the error of his McFuckey ways and realises meeting Marisa’s parents is no big deal. He goes to Marisa to genuflect YOU DO NOT GENUFLECT BEFORE A WITCH apologise, and the two carry on happily, just that bit wiser.

And then they attend supper at Marisa’s parents’, and McFuck is so nervous he accidentally knocks over the mother’s prized Chip-Chong-Nip dynasty vase. Now he needs to wriggle his way out of this. It’s tough to be McFuck.


So, to answer your question. You don’t make development fluid. You make it in stages, always in response to an arising problem/conflict. This is the basic formula of fiction: 1) protagonist encounters a problem, 2) protagonist can’t overcome the problem as his current self, 3) protagonist changes and/or acquires help from outside, 4) the new, wiser protagonist overcomes the problem easily, 5) A NEW HURDLE APPEARS! 20 goto 10. This’ll keep both the protagonist and the reader engaged as there’s always a point the story revolves around. Work from point to point. Intermissions are fine, but not when they last as long as regular chapters.

Hope this helps. And I hope the monkeys shut up now.
>>No. 18865
>>18864
>It's tough to be McFuck
Poor McFuck, he just wants to Wank in a Sock.
>>No. 18866
File 138655024119.jpg - (29.99KB, 252x245, confused-monkey.jpg) [iqdb]
18866
>>18864
Not the same anon monkey, but could you make a short story from that to make your example clearer?
>>No. 18867
>>18866
Frutro. Hermano. Brotherinsky. I’ve got my hands full enough with one story.
>>No. 18868
Yo, YAF. You tell people to read motherfucking books all damn day a lot. Got any motherfucking recs?
>>No. 18869
File 138660807181.jpg - (24.22KB, 560x400, Did you say AROUSED.jpg) [iqdb]
18869
>>18868
Just read what you like. The hell do you expect me to do, push my tastes on you? I’m reading 40k books at the moment because I like the universe. One of my buds reads G. Archer novels because he enjoys the political setting.

Unless our preferences overlap somewhere, I can’t really recommend anything. You’re supposed to read books because you like them, not because someone told you to.
>>No. 18870
Let's discuss choices.

Cryptic or Clear? (The Game choices vs What Do choices)
Should one stick to one or switch to what fits at the time?
>>No. 18871
>>18870
Make them so cryptic that they're effectively a blind choice. Pay no attention to readers attempts to decipher them and laugh in their faces when they get it wrong.
>>No. 18872
>>18869
>The hell do you expect me to do, push my tastes on you?
Yes. That's the point of recommendations: People with no taste ask for them.

not him, nor do I care about your taste
>>No. 18873
>>18870
usually clear unless there's a good reason in story (see The Game), but other than that, cryptic choices can come off as very annoying for the reasons >>18871 pointed out.
>>No. 18881
File 138679508337.jpg - (104.77KB, 544x400, I just wonder what Kain is up to.jpg) [iqdb]
18881
>>18872
I was more counting on him replying with his preferences, so I could recommend him something based on that.
>>No. 18898
Would it be okay to make your mc gay to avoid waifuism ruining your votes?
>>No. 18899
>>18898
Now this is just my own opinion, but I would say no.

The way you should avoid waifuism is by letting the girls you want to shine, have the most screen time and then giving everyone else a mere support role.
Say, you’re writing a story about romancing either Reimu or Marisa, but anon want to romance Alice. Then it’s your job as a writer to say no. you can do this by only giving her the necessary screen time, or even have her straight out say she’s not interested. After all, not every Touhou will fall in love with the MC just because he’s the MC.

Of course, if the fact he’s gay plays a role in the story, like for example, if he holds information the tengu wants, but they can’t hurt him in any way for some political reason, they might try to send some girls out to try and get the info. The fact he’s gay would make their womanly charms less than effective, so they would need another way of approach.

Tl;dr
No. You shouldn’t use the excuse of being gay to avoid waifuism unless that fact plays a role in the story.
>>No. 18900
>>18898
I was very close to making Unzan gay in PFD to just make him not an option at all.

Then a better idea presented itself.

I don't see any reason to have a problem with making the MC gay, personally.
>>No. 18901
>>18898
It really shouldn't be a problem unless you do something stupid like encourage it via decisive choices and not having much besides the routefaggotry in the story.
>>No. 18902
File 138722898150.jpg - (133.96KB, 536x720, image2089354673.jpg) [iqdb]
18902
>>18898
Just direct your fucking story. How difficult is that? By the volume of naval warfare and the related questions, I’m guessing very hard.
>>No. 18904
>>18898
Unless there's some very specific in-story reason for it, I'd say there's no point in making the MC a fan of the man. There are plenty of reasons a hetero guy would turn down a woman, after all. It could be as simple a reason as never being in the mood whenever some 2hu comes jocking on his nuts. It all depends on what's going on in your story.
>>No. 18905
Say, who do you think would be the worst cook in Touhou?
>>No. 18906
>>18898
I'm not sure you "get" this site or the audience here.

Maybe if you made him gay to encourage husbanduism, though. That might be cool, I think there's a thread in /at/ going in that direction.

>>18905
Yoshika.
>>No. 18907
>>18898

There's nothing wrong with having a gay character, but making him gay just to avoid waifuism is a bit extreme don't you think?
>>No. 18908
>>18905
if not Yoshika due to Limbs, probably Seija, although not for lack of trying probably makes a mean upside-down cake.

Runner-ups would probably be Shinmyoumaru for being 2small or Hina for all the accidents that would potentially befall the kitchen.
>>No. 18913
>>18907
I certainly think so, especialy when waifuism is easy to prevent with a well written story and not intentionally trying to provoke it.
>>No. 18926
>>18881
Oh, hi. I walked away from the thread for a while.

I dunno. I don't habitually read anything besides non-fiction for enjoyment. Having said that, back when I was in school, the stuff that I liked in terms of assigned readings was works like The Grapes of Wraith, Anna Karenina, The Scarlet Letter, The Great Gatsby... semi-contemporary realist literature, I guess?
>>No. 18943
> Some main vote option wins
> Either half or a third of the votes have some sort of sub-option added on near the end after the initial people had voted.
> Call and it disregard the sub-options or add them in anyway?

how do you handle this situation.
>>No. 18944
>>18943

Personally, so long as it wasn't a blatant violation of common sense or something like that, I'd gladly take the sub-votes into consideration for the next update. Of course, if the subvote has a majority, I'm damn well going to include it unless it's actually impossible.
>>No. 18945
>>18943
I always take the vote in context. If the subvote seems reasonably inline with the majority opinion, why not use it?

I become more hesitant if the subvote might cause a major change or deviates too much, in my opinion. I'm not afraid to chuck it in that case.
>>No. 18946
What timezone is Server/Site time for posts?
>>No. 18949
>>18946
UTC I believe. Or +0 as I call it because I'm too lazy to remember it by anything else
>>No. 18958
Any tips for coming up with names for your stories?
>>No. 18959
>>18958
I try to make the titles of my stories sound like titles of touhou games. Or spell out words/be in-jokes. But at the same time I try to incorporate the main theme or plot point subtly in there. It's not easy but it comes to me when I'm planning out the story.
>>No. 18960
>>18958
untitled until the plot unravels.
>>No. 18962
>>18958
Names, man, they've always been a toughie among most writers. In some cases, a central concept or object or character within a story will make for the perfect title (as in Harry Potter, Lolita, or Death Note). Of course, some stories don't have such a concept readily available, so they are forced to go with something either generic (Twilight) or something kind of abstract (see every Touhou canon title).

With THP, titles tend to fall into acronyms or ZUN-inspired phrases (usually both). I've even come close to naming in this way myself, but I always avoid it at the last minute. I personally prefer to not to follow this trend, given that such things tend to be hard to remember or annoying to type.

So, uh, that was my long, roundabout way of saying, "use a title that is relevant to your story."
>>No. 18963
>>18958
Ask your fans as they might be able to make something better than you could. That and in a way it's their story as much as yours.
>>No. 19010
If a story doesn't start in Gensokyo and takes a while to get there, what board would it go in? /th/ or /others/?
>>No. 19013
>>19010
>>19010
Either is fine.

/th/ is moreso X in gensokyo

While /others/ is more gensokyo in X

These are of course, more guidelines than rules, so go with your best judgement, both are crowded anyway.
>>No. 19049
>>19010
I'd say it'd depend on what area/faction it's featuring, though if there isn't any particular featured area/faction, the advice >>19013 would suffice.
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