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12683 No. 12683
>Rumia tried to eat one person once on a whim and really didn't know what she was doing. That person happened to be the player character and she got beat up pretty bad for it and ultimately decided eating humans wasn't worth it. (From Rumia's interview with Aya) Nazrin and Mystia are better examples of consistent human-eaters.

No. 12684
>Mystia has a stand and gains money by selling stuff to humans
I think there's a word for those people ignoring contradicting evidence.
No. 12686
I love Rumia more than the next guy, and even I don't want to whitewash Rumia's bloodstained past that clumsily.

It annoys me a little when artists draw Rumia in broad daylight without any sun protection. Like this.
No. 12687
>Hina: Nitori Kawashiro is my friend, so I may be biased, but I believe she is an outstanding engineer. She loves humans, and she occasionally sneaks out to the human village. Because I spread misfortune, I stay on the mountain, and she tells me stories about the village. I really enjoy hearing her stories.

>Nitori: Yeah... the first time was about a year ago. There was this pond in the garden of a big mansion. The koi that were being kept in the pod kept getting sick. When I heard about it, I proposed a device to the master of the mansion that would control the water quality. I think I know even more about fish than I do about humans, so I was confident that I could solve this problem. But no matter how many times I spoke to the master, he refused to give me consent. In the meantime, the koi continued to die, and the master bought new ones to replace them and released them in the lake. And so the cycle repeated...

>Nitori: Today, now that a year has passed, a human engineer came and proposed a device that was virtually the same as mine. He sold the master on it, and they began to use it immediately.

>Nitori: I asked the master for a reason. Why was my machine no good? All that I asked in compensation was the cost of the materials, so I didn't think I would lose to another engineer. If he had used my device a year ago, this could have ended with that many koi still alive.

>Nitori: So he told me the reason. Hey, Hina. Do you know what it was?

>Nitori: He had decided on his response from the beginning.

>Nitori: "I just couldn't trust something made by a youkai," he said.

>Hina: But sometimes, I feel sad. At how, even given how the kappa love humans... humans do not love kappa. And at how, even so, that girl continues to love humans.
No. 12688
>>It annoys me a little when artists draw Rumia in broad daylight without any sun protection. Like this.

If it helps any, you can pretend that any such artwork is merely depicting what Rumia is doing inside her darkness bubble without actually depicting the darkness bubble, because otherwise every piece of artwork featuring Rumia during the day would show nothing but a big, black ball.

Alternatively, you can pretend that Rumia has gone blind, and so lacks any form of sun protection because she doesn't even realize she needs it. While you see her flying about happily in the middle of the day, she believes herself to have achieved her dream of a world of perpetual darkness.
No. 12689
She'd still be able to feel the heat. The brightness isn't all that bothers her.
No. 12691
Bah, those guys at TvTropes really annoy me.

They keep pumping out that Lunarian shit while justifying the darker side of youkai.
No. 12692
I do pretend she's in the ball when I bother to think about it at all. Hadn't thought of the blind thing though, that's too cute in a pathetic way.
No. 12693
Not like we do that here or anything.

>blind Rumia
That's actually a pretty nice mental image.
No. 12694
I want to see a story where, due to some traumatic indecent, Rumia gains a fear of the dark.
No. 12695
No. 12696
No. 12698
This is why I need to stop trying to do and enjoy three or four things at once.
No. 12699
Thus, I propose a coalition between the Lunarian fanatics and us HFY fuckers.
No. 12700
Too late.
No. 12701
Nazrin being a human eater I can understand. Rodents in real life love the taste of human blood more than most fictional vampires after all.
No. 12704
So, you've made a coalition with YAF, Ddyk?
No. 12705
No. I'm on my own.
No. 12728
But that sounds like an interesting idea.
No. 12756
>Reimu had told Marisa about the moon and the Lunarians, she did not like at all that they saw humans as trash and that they were worthless, and now she knew that there was no way they would allow her or the (very sizable) fleet to go by, she weighed her options, she could wait for the moon to be out of the way and continue on, but that would only allow Kanako to spread more bull about Reimu and gather more and more power.

>Marisa made her decision seconds later.

>"Belief, what powerful weapons are on this ship," Marisa said.

>"One weapon which we possess is the condensed high-energy laser, which can cut through the strongest of shields in an instant, a bombardment type weapon in the fleet is a condensed pulse bomb, which has an explosive radius of 125 miles at full charge, highly effective," Belief finished.

>"Good, arm them," said Marisa.

>Five hours later…

>"Bombs armed, orders," said Belief.

>Target multiple areas of the Moons surface, and prepare to launch," said Marisa.

>"Points are locked in."


>Some people in the Lunarian capital city were enjoying their day, not really much of a care, some had their children with them as they went.

>It seemed like another glorious on the moon, and a belief that it would last an eternity, as all believed it should.

>Then from the sky, a very brief flash of light was seen, then quicker than the speed of thought a bolt impacted the cities lower district, an instant later …..

>….. a massive blast of pure energy detonated and spread in an instant.

>The energy tore everything it hit apart in an instant, the explosion of ultra condensed energy of the bomb, but this blast was no ordinary type.

>The energy from the blast was the only used on the fleet Marisa found, this energy was found millennia ago by the Forerunners and was capable of doing what had been considered an impossibility, the destruction of energy.

>In an instant, anything in the blast zones were completely obliterated, along with all the energy that made the being, including the soul itself was turned to nothingness, forcibly destroyed entirely the energy being instantly broken down to nothingness, until finally, absolutely and completely nothing remained.

>Soon, half of the moon had been bathed in a shining blue, almost white light, the half that was facing away from the Earth, then other lesser bombs hit the side facing the Earth, and since it was morning the sunlight mostly blocked the sight of the moon.

>No one saw as the Lunarian Kingdom was obliterated, nor did anyone care as they had no knowledge of the Lunarians, and they never would.

>The Lunarians had been so focused on believing an attack would come from the Earth and had focused all its eyes on it, not even giving the slightest thought to an attack from beyond the stars, and that was a mistake that they would never be able to amend.

>Soon, in the span of two hours, under the continuous attack of the Forerunner fleet, the Lunarian Kingdom was permanently destroyed, and the moon itself was reduced permanently to a dead wasteland, though instead of cold stones it was charred rock.

>"Their all dead, every single one … it was not even with a warning … another nice day, no problems … THEN … so many lights … so many … everything was turned to nothingness, no one lived from it … they saw them … just a glimpse … swords, in space, all pointing right at them … and they all fired beams, a glorious light, it looked so beautiful … no, it was horrible it destroyed everything, nothing remained … there was nothing left, no buildings, no statues, no trees, no bushes, no animals, no rabbits, no water, no oceans, no grass, no bodies, no ashes, no bacteria, not even SOULS …"

Well, at least this story is crappier than yours, Ddyk.
No. 12757
That story is too brutal even for a HFYfag like me.

And it has too many gun porn for my taste.

And it's too weird.

And it feels like a gorefest.

And the protag is too evil.

And I don't get pleasure in watching random Touhous get murdered horribly without a good reason, like terrorizing humans for example.

And the tengu are the most human-like youkai so I never view them as evil.

And the protag is not humanity's champion or anything like that since he also kills humans.

And it updates once a month.

Still, I applaud Treia for having the guts to torture Aya, even though she's his favorite Touhou. That's a sign you're not a fanboy.

Now let's see if Ddyk would write a story where Yorihime gets tortured.

No. 12758
>And the tengu are the most human-like youkai so I never view them as evil.
That is the worst kind of monster, pretending to be human. Truly sickening.
No. 12759
Any self-respecting tengu would punch you in the face if they heard you say that.
No. 12760
>Well, at least this story is crappier than yours, Ddyk.

Yeah, fuck you too.
No. 12762
That was a compliment.
No. 12765
When people are using words like "crappy" or "shit" while talking about my stories, I never take it as a compliment.
And I don't take a comparaison as a compliment either. It will never be a compliment to have my story be compared to a hatefic written just to wipe a whole civilization out while repeating that lunarians are morons.
No. 12770

You call that crappy shit a story?
No. 12771
You're so obvious. Like an open book.
No. 12782
>And the tengu are the most human-like youkai so I never view them as evil.
What about magicians? Some magicians are outright ascended humans. Or kappa? The kappa seem just as human-like in behavior and thought patterns as the tengu.

The tengu might just as well say humans are pretending to be tengu.
No. 12789
>Now let's see if Ddyk would write a story where Yorihime gets tortured.
If I'm going to write a torture scene like that, it would most probably be psychological torture rather than physical.
Mainly because as someone explained me on IRC, psychological torture is far nastier, but also because physical torture means defeating Yorihime in a fight, and that's something I don't want to get in. I don't want to spend days researching about Japanese gods to see which one Yorihime could summon.
But that's an interesting idea.
No. 12797
>Still, I applaud Treia for having the guts to torture Aya, even though she's his favorite Touhou.
I don't see how that's a positive thing.
No. 12809
That means he's not like those Yukari fanboys who always say it's impossible for her to lose to anyone and everything bad that's happening to her is a part of her plan.
No. 12810
Those people may be "Fanboys", but more importantly they are first and foremost "Fucktards".
No. 12811
I for one am entirely willing to applaud Treia for not being a fucktard.
No. 12813
I see it as more a sign that he has serious issues lying in wait, though we can't say for sure as we don't know how guilty he feels about it.

I remember a friend writing a story where Alice gets raped and he said he felt quite guilty about it.
No. 12817
There's a big difference between admitting that a character you like has flaws and writing a story about killing her and others in hideously violent and cruel ways.
I'd rather have fanboys than sadists. There's too many of the latter already.
No. 12819
Really? I haven't met many sadists likely.
No. 12820
Sure you have. They post a lot in /blue/.
No. 12823
Surely you're not talking about those HFY guys now, are you?
No. 12828
they're not sadists, just self-righteous self-centered bigots.
No. 12830
And racists. Don't forget that.
No. 12832
You two just insulted the whole population of /tg/ and Spacebattles.
No. 12834
/tg/ isn't entirely like that; I know a decent number of /tg/ers and they'd never do what these assholes do. And Spacebattles? Well...
No. 12836
Aren't bashing elves, drows, and Na'vis /tg/'s pastime?
No. 12843
We don't need /tg/ to bash Navi.
No. 12846
Nothing quite like watching /blue/ballers trying to prove how much better than the rest of the Internet they are than by acting like general preteen dipshits.
No. 12847
Nothing quite like watching a fa/tg/uy trying to prove how much better than /blue/ he is by pretending to be smart.
No. 12848
I never said some /tg/ers didn't do that, just not all of them.
No. 12852
Never been to /tg/. Or /jp/. Or spacebattles. Or reddit. But you know what? Even if I had, it doesn't change the fact that you're still a moronic twit with a crappy argument and very pathetic insults.

At the very least leave the name calling to the other shitstained fucktards of /blue/, as they at least know when to stop sucking on that rage-filled donkey dick long enough to make an insult worth typing.
No. 12858
For what it matters, both of you are fucktards.
Why? Well because I love making generalizations about all visitors of a specific website almost as much as I like to judge people based on a single post of twenty words.
No. 12859
>making generalizations
But that's the truth man, at least on Spacebattles.

Want proof? Go to the "Conversion Bureau" thread.
No. 12869
Bah, as much as some people are enthusiastic about it, there are a good many people on spacebattles who hate that thread and the people in it with a passion you wouldn't believe. I've heard it being compared by other SB'ers to the Khmer Rouge before in terms of despicability.
No. 12870
Good to know that there are still decent people in SpaceBattles.
No. 12881
>I've heard it being compared by other SB'ers to the Khmer Rouge before in terms of despicability.

Wow, really?

I'm surprised.

Now where can I meet those people?
No. 12888
sound about right as the impression i get of spacebattles despite it dumping Kahi on our site, is a mix of people with some reasonable folk as well as various fucktards.
No. 12903
>Sufferin' Shanghai! Tenshi is all over the place right now. What's going on? Is the fandom honoring her for being the closest character to being a villain in Touhou (besides Seiga)?

>Honestly, I never understood how is Tenshi a villain compared, for example, with Remilia. Or with any of those countless youkai all over Gensokyo, who either kill and eat humans, or used to do it in the past. Fandom just seems to be obsessed with Tenshi's supposed wickedness for some reason.

Well, at least some people still have common sense.
No. 12904
>No, you are most definitely not the only one who hates Reimu. I hate her with a passion and she is easily the character I hate the most in Touhou. It's just that much worse because she's the main character. I'm sure ZUN thinks it's cool to have an unbeatable beast as a main character, and I agree that it can be awesome, but the character has to be likable. Reimu is just a disrespectful, self-centered bitch.

>And I know most Touhous are arrogant and self-centered, but that's what youkai are. You would think the humans would prove to be better than them by showing at least a little compassion.

>The problem is that the other characters that are selfish or antagonistic usually have some interesting quirks to themselves (Like Tenshi), funny (Like Cirno), or so content with their "darkness" (Like Yukari) that it's not a mark against them (Like complaining that a villain is the bad guy).

>With Reimu though, it drives people away because she's not humorous, has no real quirks aside from being poor, and is supposed to be the hero fighting bad guys, so things like being boring and apathetic don't help endear her to anyone.

>"The weak, not matter how skilled will remain weak in the presence of the strong."

Man, this comic sure garners a lot of Reimu hate.
No. 12907
>And I know most Touhous are arrogant and self-centered, but that's what youkai are. You would think the humans would prove to be better than them by showing at least a little compassion.

Yeah, when the youkai act like dicks, it's obviously not their fault because it's in their nature, but when the humans act like dicks, it's obviously their fault and they're evil for that.
No. 12910
I think that's due to how she's basically a unrepentant brat while ignoring other aspects, such as her philosophical side (Most of her win lines in SWR are her quoting relevant parts from Confucius and such, not bratty gloating like one would expect)

people can forgive dickery if it's amusing enough, and that's a key difference between a youkai touhou enaging in dickery and Reimu. But more often than not, it's the heroines that end up coming up as the less forgivable dicks. UFO's final fight is an example as when they get so caught up in the incident they go about saying basically "Youkai are always bad", putting Byakuren on the extreme defensive.
No. 12915
>she's not humorous, has no real quirks aside from being poor, and is supposed to be the hero fighting bad guys
Hahahaha what a retard. Of course Reimu has no real quirks, that's because she IS the hero fighting bad guys.

Yeah, and they're also always classifying her as a masochist while ignoring everything going against that claim. Such as the fact that she as a really solid body.
No. 12916
That doesn't help Reimu more likable sort of the writer putting in the effort to do so. It's not an "ez modo" likable character like Rumia or Alice which one can phone in and get some fans.

The Masochist bit is mainly based on how she eggs people on for fights, though that's more a sign of being a 'blood knight' character than a Masochist. Not the first time fans have taken something out of context and twisted it to their own ends.
No. 12917
That reminds me, since Toyosatomimi is also eager to fight and mentionned that she observed Reimu, how does it comes she's not portrayed as a masochist or a stalker?
No. 12918
a mix of her being new and people preferring other characters for those spots. That and SoPM had her say that with how humans not desiring a leader that she'd go train herself. Most were expecting there to be some lasting tension between her group and the temple.
No. 12919
I want to bitch about those "meta" fics.

You know, the ones where the main char plays Touhou in the Outside World before getting gapped by Yukari to Gensokyo.

Bonus point if he keeps bringing up (in his head) how he knows about Touhou beforehand.

Bonus point if he gets gapped to Sanae's place, where she ends up being a gamer just like him.

Bonus point if Yukari also gaps his gaming devices with him.

Bonus point if Yukari also sets up an internet connection so that he can play online.

They reek of awful wish-fulfillment fic, to play vidya games with a cute girl.

Also, this reminds me of Wiseman's smut fic back then.
No. 12920
Don't go on FF.net if you don't like those fics.
No. 12927
Wasn't there a story where the main character made Reimu sing "Neko Miko Reimu" at a karaoke night at the shrine? Man that was cringe-worthy. Can't remember what story it was from though.
No. 12929
Man, you should see some of THP’s classic, original stories. You’d have a field day.
No. 12932
>no real quirks aside from being poor
I want to bitch about this. Is there ANY canon mention of her actually being poor, or is it just that she doesn't get a lot of donations?

Personally, I prefer the "rich miko" interpretation; she's rich but wants donations simply because shrines get donations.
No. 12942
Welp, found another HFY Reimu.
No. 12943
No. 12944
Everything turned out well in the end though.
No. 12946
Man, I love that doujin.

Yeah, I like dramatic Touhou doujins better over the slice-of-life, comedy, or romance ones.
No. 12956
Hey, thanks for telling me about that comic. Just finished reading it.

It has probably the most interesting Reimu that I've ever seen on all my journeys across the Touhou fandom.
No. 12957
Of course. Light and fluffy works are fun and all, but there's plenty of them. Drama makes me feel something when I read it (even if its rage or flabbergasted at how dumb a writer can get).
No. 12962
Christ. She’s gone crazy.


I’ve never wanted her more.
No. 12963
I remember struggling to like that. Marisa's interaction with future Reimu was great, but the future itself just slayed me. Especially that one panel of all the erased Youkai.
No. 12964
Oh, you mean this?
No. 12965
Erased to the soul, as if they never existed at all.
No. 12968
I think I’m in love.
No. 12970
>Just like the outside world

This is why I can't accept any kind of HFY story. They're deliberately trying to make gensokyo into the outside world, which to me defeats the whole damn point of gensokyo. If nothing else, I'd say it'd be a lot easier to just leave Gensokyo and reintegrate with the rest of Japan.
No. 12971
Yes. That.
All of my hatred is not enough for this.
No. 12972
Gensokyo was made by Youkai to preserve Youkai. Do you think the ordinary humans in there would prefer to live without technology and being terrorized by youkai if they were given a choice?

Humans are basically hostages.
No. 12973
That's something those people don't realize: the end result is anything BUT touhou. Wishing for such an outcome clearly shows one thing: They're not really a touhou fan, but rather someone looking for some non-humans to kill.

The whole "kill youkai because they're youkai" isn't even true "Humanity, Fuck Yeah", but rather showing humanity's strengths in spite of their weakness.

It's like this sci-fi short I read where a human frighter sacfriced itself to save a ship of dragon-like people. And one day a whole bunch of them turned up near earth, ready to repay the debt they feel they're in only to find out that such sacrifices are such an everyday occurrence that they're easily overlooked. No non-humans were killed, only impressed by our values.
No. 12978
http://archive.foolz.us/tg/thread/16309898/#16313822 this post started the story (just Ctrl+F planefag)

This line by another person sums it up : "It was one nobody saving a bunch of Dracs in their 'quaint' little ship that twelve years later helped win the war against the Vandals. I think it's awesome."
No. 12980
Well, the humans that sealed themselves in Gensokyo with the Youkai were the most Youkai-like humans anyway. There wouldn't be any room or need for them in the outside world today.
No. 12982
>>Humans are basically hostages.

Except they're not.
If humans from the outside can be sent back through the border, why couldn't the same be done for someone who just didn't want to live in Gensokyo anymore?

For that matter, if it's so bad for humans, why do some of the people who find themselves in Gensokyo choose to stay and settle there rather than return home?
No. 12983
>Well, the humans that sealed themselves in Gensokyo
I don't believe they chose to be sealed in. Live there, sure, be cut off from the outside world? Nope~! I imagine that move pissed a lot of humans (and youkai, obviously) off at the time.

It wouldn't be too farfetched to have an ancient human from that time alive, I think. It's only, what, 140 years or so? Real humans sometimes manage to hit a century and change, and they don't have magic and possible youkai ancestry to fall back on.
No. 12986
Then why did they stay? Why do they continue to stay?
No. 12989
One might figure these humans choose to move there as they didn't want to be used as pawns by the government. (who to say they wouldn't want to use people strong enough to kill youkai in their armies?)

And some that arrive there end up staying perhaps it's a simpler yet more fulfilling existence than what's in the outside world. Skills that have turned useless in the outside world would become useful again (i.e. normal farming, hunting with a bow/arrow, etc)
No. 12990
After the Border's formation? The malcontents were probably forced to stay. The Border's creators almost certainly didn't approve of emmigration. If that policy has relaxed in recent times, it's because most people don't want to leave anymore.

Outsiders are different. If they're unwilling to adapt, nobody wants their dirty beliefs infecting the natives.
No. 12992
Letting out the occasional outsider is quite different from letting natives leave. Youkai depend on the belief of Gensoyko's human population to survive. Do you honestly think they'd just let them all walk out?

>nobody wants their dirty beliefs infecting the natives
Especially the youkai.

Even a single outsider could potentially do great harm to youkai just by talking basic science. Kyouko's SOPM article says that yamabikos are going extinct just because of a rumor in the village about sound reflecting naturally. It's no surprise that youkai wouldn't object to outsiders leaving.
No. 12996
I wonder what happens if the native humans are taught to believe that youkai can exist without human belief in them?
No. 12998
not sure if any natives really want to leave as the impression is the typical helpless outsider is something to be laughed at, not aspired to.

I do worry about Kanako's science related projects as they risk bringing about the same thing.

It'd take a long time as just by showing fear/respect of their power they're supplying belief.
No. 13002
>not sure if any natives really want to leave as the impression is the typical helpless outsider is something to be laughed at, not aspired to.

Or not, if you know that outsider are considered "valuable" for their knowledge. They just lack in common sense (they are scared by harmless ghost and yet, when they see a dangerous youkai, their usual reaction is "want a lolipop?").
No. 13006
You know, most of the reasons I've seen not wanting the humans to triumph over youkai can basically be summed as "How dare you make an exciting and joyous fantasy world to be bland and boring like real life!"

Which is really funny, if you ask me. Touhou, ultimately, is just a medium for wish-fulfillment to them.
No. 13007
>Outsiders are different. If they're unwilling to adapt, nobody wants their dirty beliefs infecting the natives.

>Even a single outsider could potentially do great harm to youkai just by talking basic science.

This makes me want a story where a bunch of Outsiders try to "tip the balance over to the human side", so to speak.
No. 13008
It appears to vary as the article on humans makes fun of how outsiders seem completely helpless in Gensokyo, futilely using their cell phones, etc.
No. 13009
it makes me wonder why they don't go into other series more open to "killing non-humans for flimsy reasons", such as warhammer40K (the imperial guard is all about shooting Xenos for any or no reason)
No. 13010
Because I don't like Warhammer. Is that so hard to understand?

I'm only acting like this when I'm talking about Touhou, and that's because how the relationship between humans and non-humans (youkai, to be exact) works in this series.

I have a soft spot for the weak and coincidentally, the humans are the weak ones here.
No. 13011
and that makes you want to make them rise up and start killing indiscrimately? As that's the ultimate end result of these trains of thought.

And the way humans and youkai work? You mean in a balance? As youkai that visit the village behave themselves and it's understood that some human running off into youkai turf got what was coming.

In Memorizable Gensokyo (ZUN-written manga that came with PMiSS, it had Akyuu liking the current peaceful relations between the two groups)

And do you want to know what happens to to Gensokyo without youkai? it'd become another copy of the outside world... which is anything but a paradise. Or do you see the holocaust, etc as good things? Maybe I should remind people here what japan went on to do without youkai.

I dare say the reason why Gensokyo is a paradise is because the youkai ensure humans don't get the better of themselves. Kanako remarks as such in one of the SoPM parts (spiritual wealth was the term she used)
No. 13013
>the youkai ensure humans don't get the better of themselves

It's quite sad that the price to have "paradise" is the lost of your freedom. It's not even a "human paradise". It's a youkai one.

By the way...

>Or do you see the holocaust, etc as good things?

You just lost the debate. Godwin's Law and all that.
No. 13014
I don't see the natives as having lost their freedom. It's peaceful on a level rarely seen in the outside world.

And don't you dare deny the normal course of humanity has left various extinct races, whole states worth of forest being burnt, cultures ruined, etc. In a certain manner, humanity has replaced the monsters they drove out with themselves and the replacements are doing a better job of being monsters than the originals (youkai)
No. 13016
No. 13017
>Is it any wonder? Youkai grow in number by the day. If not for the outside world providing fresh victims on a daily basis, the human village(s) would be destroyed. Really, the complete destruction of Gensokyo and all of it's inhabitants would be a boon to humanity.

>In Gensokyo nothing is serious business - and that's why we love its wackiness, be it man-devouring youkai, corrupt mikos, witch burglars, maids with the power of WRYYYYY, vampires on a diet, or any other kind of strange shit.

>It's becoming obvious that some are becoming way too SERIOUS BUSINESS. Robert3186 was right - this is the "cancer" that's killing my appetite for reading the wackiness that is "Life of Maid".

Well, those guys have a point. We shouldn't take Touhou too seriously.

But then, Touhou will be like Lucky Star or K-ON, moe-moe shows with no real essence. And I don't like those kinds of shows.

I just want more good serious Touhou stories, preferably about the relationship between humans and youkai.

Heck, maybe one day I'll find a story so good it can change my "HFY" stance on Touhou, just like how a certain story made me adopt that stance in the first place.

Internet debates won't change my opinion, but a great story would. If a story's really good, I have a tendency to adopt some parts of it into my headcanon.
No. 13018
Try The Game.
No. 13021
>Is it any wonder? Youkai grow in number by the day.
There's no canon evidence for this that I know of.

>If not for the outside world providing fresh victims on a daily basis, the human village(s) would be destroyed.
Likewise. The majority of more powerful youkai are intelligent and see the human village's value as a resource, if they bear any malice towards it at all.

>Really, the complete destruction of Gensokyo and all of it's inhabitants would be a boon to humanity.
So, to prevent the human inhabitants from being killed in Gensokyo, it's ideal to kill all (nonhuman and) human inhabitants of Gensokyo?

Not to mention that I don't get the argument of genocide of another sentient species being a boon to humanity. Youkai aren't going to be a threat to humanity as a whole (especially not when contained within Gensokyo), and there would still be many things humans could learn from them (e.g. magic). Why are, worst case scenario, a few human lives so much more important than an entire race / group of species? Both humans and youkai exhibit sentient life, and both could be said to be considered a threat to one another, true. So could groups of humans and other humans, and the majority of us IRL consider genocides or inhumanely brutal treatments of different, say, ethnic groups to be despicable. So why would treating youkai in the same way be any more acceptable? If you think their not being human is sufficient reason, why is that justification?

Oh, and for a good serious Touhou story which gets into the dynamics between humans and youkai, try Fragmentation of Memories. The hunter's part gets into this issue quite a lot.
No. 13026
Just read the first thread and I have to say, it has caught my attention.

The hunter part is far more interesting than the Mikio part though. I hope there'll be more of that in the other threads.

Well, I'll start reading it, even though the story already ended recently.
No. 13043
At the same time if we go too seriously we'd end up with grimderp like WH40k.

What story made you take up this "HFY" stance? Let me guess it's something YAF wrote or something on ff.net.

I'm under the impression that the more intelligent youkai would try to curtail any rash moves in general. That and most of the older ones have appeared to grow out of their human-eating phase, preferring to inspire fear.
No. 13047
>grimderp like WH40k
I dislike this attitude. If you read some 40k books, you’d see it’s not as “grimderp” as /tg/ or 1d4chan make it out to be. The Horus Heresy books have a fair amount of grittiness in them, but stuff of the like of Ciaphas Cain (HERO OF THE IMPERIUM!) is rather comedic for a setting you’d like to call “grimderp.”

Honestly, the actual 40k fluff isn’t THAT dark.
No. 13057
From what i understand, it began as a parody that started to get taken seriously. Hell, the whole notion of "grimdark" is a parody of similar dark stories; it's little wonder anyone who seriously tries to emulate it has it resulting in hilariously bad things.

Yeah the 40k canon isn't so serious, but to many fans, they love to play up the "grimdark" as it's edgy and cool. It's hard to take the notion seriously when the two biggest names in it have one start as a joke and the other (Frank Miller) became a joke.

a typical HFY movement has its roots in grimdark as these people see things various shade darker just to justify their xenophobic urges. That and ignorance of what would result once all the "Xenos" are purged: A much less interesting land.

HFY in touhou is like going into WH40k and insisting on everyone being friends and stuff like imperial guardsmen hugging every Xeno they find.
No. 13059
>something YAF wrote
Nope. Don't even like that guy.
>something from FF.net
Nope. No Touhou stories there with a good plot.
No. 13060
Then what story exactly? on THP there's not a real tendency to write stories THAT dark.
No. 13061
It's not from THP.
No. 13063
Just finished the second thread of FoM.

So far it's been quite a read and if it continues to be so, Lion definitely deserves his "legendary writefag" status.

But I wonder how Hoshuu and the hunter (which sadly, doesn't appear in this chapter) relate to Mikio.
No. 13064
This is hardly rage
No. 13065
The rage moved into the writing advice thread. Which is a shame.
No. 13066
On to the third thread.

I'm glad anon still choose the neutral option (and it's a write-in to boot) when asked about that "human-killing youkai". I'd expect them to put all the blame to the human entirely.

And I'm quite sure that story will be relevant in the future.

Also, still no hunter segment.
No. 13070
So, thread four.

There seems to be a lot of Sanaefags who really like the Hoshuu segment. Wonder if Lion will keep his promise on making a standalone Hoshuu CYOA, since the main story's already over and all.

I realize Lion uses quite a lot of timeskips for the Mikio segment, something I don't often see here.

Also, I want more of the Hunter segment goddamnit.
No. 13075
Thread five.

My God, between the (minor) shitstorm with that Bane guy and the inane comments about incest sex between Mikio and Momiji/Aya, this is easily the worst thread so far.

And there's still no hunter segment.

By the way, is it true that there was a shitstorm on Owen's thread?
No. 13077
We story discussion thread now?
No. 13078

I'd like to inform you that this is not the right place to post your thoughts on every. single. story thread.

In fact, this is a rage thread, so fuck you. Take your posts and start a shitty fanfiction review blog somewhere.
No. 13081

>Also, as per canon says, Reimu is pretty damn unlikable a character, mean, harsh, selfish, cold, aloof. She doesn't come across as very human herself. No canon says she cares anything about any youkai, or very much about any humans. If she was real, I wouldn't personally want to have anything to do with her.

If Reimu was real, she would punch you in the face for saying that.
No. 13082
At least it's better than the inane HFY discussion going on here.
No. 13083
>mean, harsh, selfish, cold, aloof
Sounds like my kind of person.
Not on topic though.
No. 13084
>No internet, electricity, work on the fields all day long if you don't have any 'material' expertises...
>And don't you wander out of the towns perimeters if you value your life.

I love how this comment got downvoted. Shows how much "I want to live in Gensokyo and it's totally a paradise and fuck you for telling me otherwise!" mentality our fandom has.
No. 13085
My fantasy is to make all your wish fulfillment fantasies impossible. Why are you downvoting me???
No. 13086
Youkai came from human thoughts.

In a sense, their existence belongs to us, and we have to right to end it whenever we please.
No. 13087
>Reimu and Marisa are kind of bad role models if you think about it. If only Sanae had another protagonist to emulate. Like Kotohime. Or Rikako.

Confirmed for hipster.
No. 13088
>I've said it so many times now, Gensokyo is idyllic and pastoral, and is a "peace-addled" kind of a world.

Straight from ZUN in the afterword of PMiSS.
No. 13090
See, guys?

Loving Gensokyo is required for all Touhou fans, just like loving Equestria and friendship is for bronies.

Guess I'm not a Touhou fan after all, huh.

Oh well, I already hate most of the fandom so it's not so far-fetched if I turn out to be a hater of Touhou too. After all, Touhou is built by the fandom, right guys?

"If you love something too much, you'll end up hating it," like a wise person once said.

No. 13091
>the a wizard is you is wish fulfillment that boils down to show who has the biggest e-penis.

>well, that sounds like a Marty-Stu mixed with Gary and a few other Stus. Good thing I stay the hell away from those self inserts

And yet this guy likes that ZnT Male!Yuuka fic, which is based on the same concept with A Wizard Is You; crazy awesome protagonist doing crazy awesome things.

Well, at least he has terrible spelling and grammar skills, so I can't take him seriously.
No. 13092
Thinking about it, this HFY bullshit can be avoided if ZUN didn't use that retarded "the supernatural runs on human belief" system.

I hate that system, especially since it's becoming more and more prominent nowadays.

It can be viewed as a mockery of human faiths and beliefs; something that doesn't sit well with me.
No. 13093
It's funny how I just read a thread on /jp/ about the same doujin above and some guy quoted the exact same thing you just quoted.
No. 13095
See, that's what I hate from ZUN. He keeps adding those dark undertones to Touhou while still making the series light. He should just choose one or the other.

For comparison, it never crosses my mind about how many goombas Mario has "killed" (notice the double quotes there) by jumping on their heads. That's because Miyamoto clearly makes the setting light, without any dark undertones whatsoever.

However, the same thing couldn't be said with Touhou. I can't shake the thought "Man, it must suck to be one of the humans living in Gensokyo", especially since SoPM came out (Kanako talking about how the humans living in Gensokyo are like zoo animals)

Bah, this series should just be treated only as a bullet hell game from the start, not an epic modern fantasy setting like this.
No. 13096
She does have a nice side, it's just never seen during incidents. In one of the fairy manga chapters, she's shown kindly telling a fairy (that looks like daiyousei) to find shelter.

you're taking what a god says seriously? That may be true conceptually but none of the humans complain (more than could be said of the outside's humans)

Touhou to me comes off as "dark past, brighter future". And despite how flawed Reimu and Marisa are, they do a good job of keeping things in line without being excessive.
No. 13098
Doesn't ZUN call himself a priest? He doesn't want to be a god.
No. 13099
I don't see the logic here. By your argument, children come from their parents, and our existences could be said to belong to our parents, does that mean parents have the right to kill their children whenever they please?

Agreeing with basically all of this. And a god whose main interaction with humans is for faith would be more likely to describe them like zoo animals.

It's his series, and ZUN's quite obviously fond of black comedy and similar themes. Just because you'd like a more black-or-white, light-or-dark series better, doesn't mean that Touhou "should" be that way, or that it being so would be superior to the current tone.
And anyway, the majority of the fandom (using the term rather loosely) views Touhou as a source of memes/porn more than a game series or fantasy setting.

The god being referred to is Kanako. Those who call ZUN a god, especially unironically, are being idiots.
No. 13100
>ZUN's fond of black comedy.
You'll have to explain what's that black comedy thing, because I think "Dead baby jokes", and I'm not seeing those in touhou.
No. 13101
I'm not sure how you would exactly define it, but black comedy usually involves humor coming from typically non-humorous, even morbid, circumstances.

Take Murasa's article from Symposium. With just one paragraph between them, we go from this:

>>This is a fearsome youkai with an ability specializing in killing humans. The sort of pure youkai with no goals other than killing. This merciless ability is all because they cannot move on from this world. Because they can create companions in this way.

To this:

>>She has a bright personality and is a good conversationalist. While she's flooding a ship she likes to chat with the owner. She's gotten a lot of good practice with her rhetorical skills like this.

So you have Murasa flooding a ship so she can sink it and kill everybody aboard, causally chatting with one of the people she is trying to kill, while she is actively trying to kill him.

Sure, to the captain, it's probably not that funny that a cold-blooded killer is chatting him up while trying to murder him, but to us? It's kinda funny.
No. 13102
I see. Thank you for explaining, it seemed weird to me, but now I understand that's humour.
No. 13105
>I don't see the logic here. By your argument, children come from their parents, and our existences could be said to belong to our parents, does that mean parents have the right to kill their children whenever they please?

That's why you should obey and respect your parents, folks.

Joking aside, I was talking more about how youkai came to be. They came from our thoughts while we came from either evolution (which makes us owe to no one for our existence) or God (thus making us owe our existence to Him, justifying that one time when He's gonna kill us all).

Then again, we obviously have to have children (otherwise, how the hell humanity's gonna survive?), while we don't have a need for youkai.
No. 13106

Never thought there would come a day where the Walfas community realizes how bad Gary Stu OCs in Touhou are.
No. 13107

>we don't have a need for youkai.
We don't have a need for electricity either.

>They came from our thoughts while we came from either evolution (which makes us owe to no one for our existence) or God (thus making us owe our existence to Him, justifying that one time when He's gonna kill us all).
This is a false dichotomy, considering the wealth of creation and world-end myths. Also, Touhou gods originate from human belief too.

>[they came from us, therefore we own them/they permanently owe their lives to us]
This is outright wrong. Do humans belong to bacteria? If an entity is the same even if all its components are replaced one by one, the first bacteria - and our most distant evolutionary ancestors, to whom by your logic we owe our existences - are still alive, as more or less all the bacteria on Earth. And some of them attempt to kill us via infection. If your argument is taken to its logical conclusion, penicillin, sterilization, and the human immune system are immoral.
No. 13108
Oh come on.

Comparing youkai to electricity is just... moronic.

And we sure as hell need electricity. Maybe we don't need it in the old ages but now, without it, our civilization will collapse.

Also, we don't owe our existence to those bacteria. We are those bacteria (albeit in a much more evolved form), and we sure as hell are justified in killing all those other bacteria who threaten us, just like it's justified for us to kill animals for their meat.
No. 13109
If it's justified for us to kill animals for their meat, for the purpose of sustaining our own lives, why isn't it justified for youkai to kill humans for their meat / fear, for the purpose of sustaining their own lives?

And anyway, bacteria and animals aren't sentient (sapient?), youkai and humans are, which is why I used humans and other humans in my metaphor above. Entities with at least human-level intelligence, in my opinion, should have comparable rights to humans.

Besides, it's true that humans don't have a need for youkai. But the point I think >>13107 was trying to make is that even if something's not strictly necessary to our lives, it can still be valuable or worthwhile to have, and removing everything that we don't have a need for would likely lead to a boring and generic existence.
No. 13111
>If it's justified for us to kill animals for their meat, for the purpose of sustaining our own lives, why isn't it justified for youkai to kill humans for their meat/fear, for the purpose of sustaining their own lives?

That, my friend, is the reasoning Stripe Pattern's Byakuren uses to justify her actions. "All lives are equal under the light of dharma, and a human's life is no more precious than a cattle's life. There is no difference between a youkai who slaughters humans and a human who slaughters his cattle."

Perhaps we could say it is justified. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't fight back. Both sides are fighting for their own survival and when push comes to shove, I'm siding with my own kind; humans.
No. 13112
There's a difference between self-defense and genocide, and usually the pro-human nuts want the latter in the end.
No. 13113
I only want for all youkai that threaten humans to be gone.

Peaceful, civilized youkai can stay (tengu, kappa, Kogasa's species)
No. 13114
The war for survival is long since over, and the youkai lost. Humans control thousands of times more territory than youkai do. Statistically speaking, orders of magnitude more humans in the real world and by implication in Touhou's world die by getting attacked by wild animals than die due to youkai attacks. But I don't see you clamoring to drive bears (or for that matter, deer, who cause more deaths and injuries than bears) extinct.

>We are those bacteria (albeit in a much more evolved form), [...]
You seem to misunderstand the differences between bacterial reproduction and eukaryote reproduction.
A bacterium reproduces by splitting in two; each new bacterium is identical to the parent, and so both of them can be said to be the parent.
Eukaryotes use sexual reproduction. A new entity with a DNA sequence different from that of either of its parents is formed from gametes of two eukaryotes.
Furthermore, bacteria do not die of old age, whereas eukaryotes do.
No. 13115
>I don't see you clamoring to drive bears

Now how do you know that? Are you spying on me?
No. 13116
I didn't laugh reading that.
No. 13127
For comparison, Gensokyo is like a wildlife refuge for youkai, gods, mystics and other entities which face extinction from the growing mechanization of the world. It is, at most, as big as Rhode Island, and affects overall human civilization as much as Yellowstone Park.

Now, suppose that all the youkai is exterminated, civilization is welcomed, etc. What would happen then? The Hakurei Border likely cannot be maintained without their presence, and welcoming civilization would necessitate removal of the border anyway. So Gensokyo would just be absorbed into the Outside World.

At best, it'll become known as one of the poorest and backward regions in Japan, moreso when compared to the futuristic Outside World that Mary and Renko describes, sort of like an Indian Reservation. At worst, it wouldn't even be able to maintain its uncorrupted environment, and become something analogous to Nigeria, where the people can't even grow their crops because of the pollution.

So, is oppression by youkai really that bad?
No. 13128
if you really call it oppression as in all the materials there's never any hint of oppression in regards to the village, but rather a peaceful understanding between villagers and the youkai that visit the village.

If anything youkai are more a part of village life and a possible counterbalance against society progressing too fast.

There is also the risk the few remaining humans of note would likely catch the interests of the government for things like experiments.
No. 13129
Wait what? Why are you bringing up the futuristic Outside World into this? We're talking about Gensokyo in the present day.

Besides, if the Border falls down, they'll probably be found by the Japanese government, which I'm sure won't just abandon them.

Now I want a story about that.
No. 13130

It's unclear on whether Ghostly Field Club's world is the Outside World during the series or if something like our own is. In my opinion, the headcanon is that the Outisde World is one where technology is futuristic but at the cost of human happiness and strawberries.

Stories here generally ignore GFC's implications and use our world. Even then, the comparisons to Indian reservations still stand.
No. 13132
>It's unclear on whether Ghostly Field Club's world is the Outside World during the series or if something like our own is
It's futuristic, since they can visit the Moon.
No. 13138
>It's futuristic, since they can visit the Moon.
How does that work in the touhou universe? I imagine that all they see is the barren terrain, and not the giant sea or cities on the moon. And how do the Lunarians feel about this?
No. 13139
Who cares?
No. 13143
I care. That's why I asked.
No. 13144
It's also funny how many butthurt people show up in that thread. It seems everytime someone brings up some "grimdark" Touhou doujins, especially if it involves human-youkai relationship, there will be a mob with torches and pitchforks declaring how shitty they are and how you're a filthy fucking secondary for liking them.

Guess that's one more easy way to make people rage at /jp/, other than bringing up SSiB.
No. 13145
>There is a reason I hate Kanako. Why did Kanako move to Gensokyo? Because a lack of Faith. Why was there a lack of Faith? Because people stopped believing in gods. Why did people stop believing in gods when there is a god living among them?

>Seriously, why? The people of Japan should have never stopped believing in gods because the gods interacted with them on a regular basis. This all changed when Kanako's plan to unite Japan under one god, namely her. To my knowledge she killed the other gods. Suwako was only spared because she was so involved with her people, that they would never forgive Kanako if she murdered her.

>So Kanako has united the land. Does she actively help all those that now worship her? Nope, she's just content to sit back and just lap up all that free Faith and Praise. And while she's loafing around doing nothing, her people become self sufficient, using science to fill the void made by their lazy god.

>So her people stop believing her. Does she remind Japan how powerful she is and how she should be praised? Nope. Instead she runs away and drags her temple, her personal punching bag, and her favorite shrine maiden with her. Can you imagine the reaction of Sanae's parents when they wake up to find their daughter has vanished without a trace?

>Kanako's also crafty. She gave the people of Old Hell an new power source that she claimed was used by the people of the outside world so they could thrive again (Nevermind the fact that said power killed countless people under her protection) How does she give them this power? By having one of them eat the body of a god! She made Utsuho become a god without anyone being the wiser. Almost all the Faith of Old Hell goes to her. The only thing sustaining Utsuho is the Praise she gets for being Kanako's chosen.

>At least, that's my understanding of the situation.

Well, she already got the looks of a villain to be honest.
No. 13146
You do realize that most of that, specifically the backstory, is some idiot's headcanon right?
No. 13148
Of course. Did you just think I agree with what that guy just said?

Anyway, this is the post that spawned that rant.

>Hey everyone~!

>You know, I just wanted to ask this question so I won't feel like I'm holding something I shouldn't in my pure maiden's heart. So I'll ask it now~!

>Did any of you feel the sudden urge to absolutely, utterly, completely and definitely break down a specific Touhou's neck in ten thousand pieces as you hear her gag on her own spine? If you don't want to, you don't have to tell who that is (in case you ever felt such urge), but... Does any of you have this feeling?

>I certainly do. I'm not telling who this Touhou is, though. Because I don't want people looking at me with watery why eyes.


>Just wanted to ask, is all~
No. 13156
well that's because what outside stuff trickles into Gensokyo is from our era, not Renko amd Maribel's. For one, Maribel's dreams drops her in all sort of times.
No. 13159
Aaand that kind of person's why I don't go to /jp/.

For my peace of mind, I'm just going to assume they were starting a troll thread.
No. 13166
That's not from /jp/ actually.
No. 13177
>>I don't see the logic here. By your argument, children come from their parents, and our existences could be said to belong to our parents, does that mean parents have the right to kill their children whenever they please?

In the past that was pretty much already a given. Especially if that child was a 'worthless female' or some other similiarly stupid term/definition.

It might have something to do about the fact that Humans are confirmed as being sapient and sentient beings. It's also why Humans have this hangup about Humans killing other Humans as well.
No. 13179
Oh goddamn it, why must you restart the argument again?
No. 13180
Some people don't know when to stop.
No. 13186
Why should youkai hold the same values that humans hold? If killing sapient species is "wrong" for humans, why should the same hold for youkai?
No. 13187
It's not so much a question of "Why should the Youkai kill/not kill the Humans?", but rather a question of "Why shouldn't the Humans wipe out what remains of the Youkai if they're going to remain Human-eating/Human-killing fucktards?"
No. 13189
Because they're weaker and less numerous. If the humans rebel and attack, the youkai will kill them all, and then vanish from the lack of humans to sustain them. It's a MAD.
No. 13190
I sometimes wonder if Youkai aren't anti-bodies of sorts to humans as the HFY crowd seem fond of overlooking the fact that the single most destructive species on the planet are humans. Any day now the total death doll that we've inflicted will put the bible's worse to shame.

Youkai are very unlikely to wipe out humanity while the same cannot be said about humans.
No. 13195
>>Any day now the total death doll that we've inflicted will put the bible's worse to shame.
The fact that you're using this as part of your argument already puts the rest of your statements into question, considering it implies you have no clue what you're talking about, and refusing to let something as inconsequential as ignorance or incompetence stop you from saying it anyways. The funny thing though? Most of that 'deathtoll' was due to the Jewish God being either a twat or a mental midget.
No. 13199
Thanks for implying we are a blight to this planet.

Earth is our garden, not our goddess. We have the right to shape it anyway we want, and if we do a bad job on it, we will be the one to reap the consequences.

The youkai might be more "peaceful" than us, but that's because they can't build a civilization (that of course excludes the more human-like youkai), unlike us who can grow from being simple cavemen to a space-faring species. And that ability to build civilization is what makes us the rightful owner of Earth.

I believe we should look to the Lunarians to see how we should act towards youkai. There, youkai are kept as partners and servants, rather than keeping them as wild beasts (of course, that also excludes some civilized youkai) that terrorize humans like we do in Gensokyo.
No. 13202
There you go overlooking:

-The countless species we wiped out
-The Climate damage wrought by our own efforts
-The fact that one group of humans gets the idea to wipe out some other group completely or at least commit horrific acts against on a rather frequent basis.

For the Lunarians' snobbery and politics, they have yet to fall into the worst human vices. Good thing as they would have something that would quickly wipe out earthlings.
No. 13204
And for each of those horrible acts we did, we have ten good acts we've done.

Humans are flawed. Humans can be evil. But we can also be saints.

No one seeks to do wrong. No one seeks to be evil. It's simply the circumstances that can give way to it.

At least, that's what I believe; what I want to believe.
No. 13210
That's almost exactly what the implication is, really. The Lunarians claim that they created youkai in order to curb the development of human societies. Obviously, if that's true, it didn't work out too well.
No. 13211
So according to you, youkai who don't respect human rights and lives should all be massacred, but the ones who do should be made servile to humanity. That is incredibly hypocritical.
No. 13212
Penchant for hypocrisy is an integral part of human nature.
No. 13215
That guy understood the truth: the lunarians are superior to everyone else.
Deal with it.
No. 13252
I don't see the hypocrisy.
No. 13258
You don't need to be a fanatical believer of "HFY!" or "TechnologyFuckYeah!/ModernCultureFuckYeah!" to think that arguments that run along the lines of "Humans are nothing but evil and should be killed for harming mother nature" are retarded as fuck, and there is nothing hypocritical about believing that right now Humanity is better than it's ever been before due to Technology and Human Effort and that things which harm human society, human development, and human life are inherently evil things which must be hindered and destroyed when and where possible to prevent them from doing harm.

I mean fuck, do you cry at night over the fact that we wiped out smallpox in the wild?
No. 13259
There are idiots arguing for anarcho-primitivism in real life. Throw in human progress being responsible for the death of magic in the world, and it becomes palatable to relatively sane people.
No. 13261
Competing explanations are made by skeptics. Those explanations gain popularity. Boom, magic is dead and nobody realizes it happened.
No. 13262
it's a matter of faith and the rise of science/catholic chruch. Not to mention a number of magic user hunts might have happened. Human are good at assuming anything different as dangerous and thus must be wiped out.
No. 13264
That's another thing. The thought that magic is dying because "We don't believe in it" is retardedly ill-thought BULLSHIT. If Magic exists only because we believe in it, then Humans are basically fucking Orks at that point, and if we can see/feel the effects of Magic, there would be no reason for us not to believe in it to begin with. That would be like saying you don't believe in water or the ground, even though you can see and interact with them repeatedly throughout the day.
No. 13266
Uh, I cleaned up a few parts and reposted. Even so, those sorts of argument still fail, since it implies that less than a hundred million or so people in the European cultures had more impact on the "Disappearance of Magic" than the Hundreds of Millions living in the rest of the world, and that's before we even touch on the facts that the European cultures deeply believed in the Existance of Magic up to the Twentieth Century (with great chunks of North and South America's populations still believing magic exists), or the fact that Christianity kind of needs Magic around so that they have an easy scapegoat to blame shit on. So NOPE, your arguments still fall flat here.
No. 13267
The Technocracy did it. Youkai are all reality deviants.
No. 13268
Those magnificent bastards!
No. 13270
>[Youkai should be killed because they eat humans.]

Youkai do not threaten humans as a species. If we take this argument to its logical conclusion, since youkai, who are sapient, are to be destroyed because they occasionally attack and kill humans, why should we not eradicate all the nonsapient (but still sentient) wild animals who much more frequently (on a global scale) attack and kill humans?


Smallpox isn't even sentient, much less sapient, whereas youkai are both. People do, in fact, cry at night over species of animal (which are sentient but not sapient) which humans have made extinct for food or in self-defense, and people go to ridiculous lengths to prevent polar and panda bears, tigers, and various other large predators from going extinct, despite the fact that they kill and eat humans.
No. 13272
I've only advocated the eradication of man-eating youkai. We don't need to eradicate the tengu or kappa for example.
No. 13273
Define "man-eating."
As in, youkai that eat humans now? Youkai that have eaten humans in the past? How specific are we talking? If a wolf youkai eats people, are you saying all wolf youkai should be killed or just that one?
No. 13274
If you're capable of exterminating youkai for reals, you're capable of obeying the goddamn spellcard rules, incident.
No. 13275
Youkai that still eat humans, of course.
No. 13276
better question: how many youkai eat humans that know better as opposed to stupid outsiders?
No. 13278
I hate it when people think it's a-okay for youkai to eat humans as long as they're just some "stupid Outsiders".
No. 13279
If they'd answer their magical email*, they'd know about the spellcard rules and have picked up some rocks or a fistful of grass to repel youkai with.

*How did Byakuren, among others, know the spellcard rules? It is a mystery. If there's a canon explanation for this, I'd love to hear it.
No. 13280
Eh. Humans do stuff like that to each other all the time; it's nothing new.
No. 13281
It's because Touhou is a shmup, duh.

Eh, murder is a-okay. We do that all the time. It's nothing new.
No. 13282
Just saying.
No. 13284
Whoever complained about the rage thread, go on, it's free now.
No. 13287
that's natural selection at work. Humans wiping out something via expansion is not.
No. 13289
That is also natural selection at work.
No. 13291
Wiping species is part of progress. As humans are progressing, they're changing the world around them. If beasts cannot live in a human-like world, they disappears. That's "natural" selection too, in a way.
No. 13292

I want to rage about the idiot claiming the trademark on touhou project and team shanghai alice.
No. 13293
"Koji Kaneko".
Well, I raged about Anon and Megasen yesterday, I'm sorry, I can't rage any more.
No. 13294
Yeah, and Gensokyo's existence is also natural selection. Same goes for whatever new existences fill the void left by the old. City youkai, anyone?
No. 13295
Foxes can live in a human town. Racoons too.
Bears cannot.
No. 13296
Pom Poko.
No. 13297
Amazing how full of yourself you are. There's a vast difference between "something not surviving in the natural balance" and "altering the natural balance, leading to deaths"

Humanity's greatest sin is presuming they're above nature as opposed to being a part of it.
No. 13298
No, we are above nature. We aren't just some intelligent animal.

And if you think we're just some intelligent animal, then there's no need to talk about sin or morality. Our only concern should only be our own survival, and the youkai are an obstacle to that.
No. 13300

Copyright fraud, ruining everything you love since 1710*.

*When the first copyright law was passed.
No. 13301
You just shot any legitimacy you had in the foot. Then in the chest, arms, and head.
No. 13302
>>No, we are above nature.

Maybe you haven't been keeping up on current events, but nature is pretty much kicking our ass, and has been for a very long time. Heatwaves, wildfires, floods, earthquakes, tsunamis, hurricanes, tornadoes, flash floods, mudslides, hail storms, blizzards, and on and on. No matter how advanced we may have become, just one day of bad weather can royally fuck up the day for a lot of people. And that's just the weather on this planet. Consider just how much of this planet, despite our supposedly being above nature, is still pretty much completely uninhabitable to us. Going beyond that, consider just how much of the rest of our known universe is even less inhabitable. Depending where you are, you stand a good chance of either burning or freezing to death, and will do so before you even need to worry about that whole "no air" thing.

The fact of the matter is, the only reason we've been able to rise to the point we have is because nature has calmed down just enough for us to be able to. Once it goes back to being the fickle, unstable bitch it's been for most of the history of this planet, we are all royally fucked.
No. 13303
it's not bad yet, ZUN doesn't think so and the precise terms aren't really used by him or the fandom as most call it "Touhou" (no project) and "Shanghai Alice" (not another word on top of that)
No. 13304
What I mean by us being above nature is that we shouldn't go out of our way to "help" it unless if by doing so, we can gain something from it.

Like I've said before, nature is our garden. It's only natural for its owner to shape it however he pleases. And if unwanted weeds start to grow in it, he has the right to cut them down.
No. 13312
>I don't go up to you and call you a random wanker. Why? Because you don't go around calling me out like you're a fucking golden king from Atlantis. It really doesn't matter if that guy's the owner of this forum, or the prince of Persia; if he wants to go around insulting people then he can suck my dick, truly. There's a way to treat people that doesn't involve being rude, or taking such an offensive stance to their methods or beliefs. If he had given any neighbourly alternative to "is extremely dumb" in such an arrogant tone, I'd have left well enough alone. I don't go around picking fights, but if anyone decides to douche it up without provocation, you can count on me to slam my proverbial cock into a brick wall, self-destructing my way to my own satisfaction.


Is this you, YAF? He sounds like you with those flowery insults.
No. 13313
YAF invented internet-style hyperbole and sarcastic humor.
You heard it here first.
No. 13315
>implying I care for either admins or the sucking of dick
>in addition, implying I get into internet arguments at all
>furthermore implying I give half a fuck in broad general

come @ me bra
No. 13317
Might makes right~
No. 13318
So we have the right to shape our own world as we wish because there is basically nothing stopping us and we're at the top of the food chain. So then, what's wrong with the youkai who do that in Gensokyo? Humans aren't top dog there. Youkai are. Gensokyo is their garden, it was made to be that way.
No. 13319
>not denying he invented internet-style hyperbole
>not denying he invented sarcastic humor

I see your game, you rogue.
No. 13320
I don't understand your logic at all.
>Humans aren't top dog there. Youkai are.
is probably the best way to motivate people into becoming the top of the food chain in Gensokyo.
No. 13321
I, for one, would love to eat roast youkai.
No. 13322
The flowchart from >>9649 seems to be appropriate here.
No. 13323
Yuyuko could likely recommend for you some of Gensokyo's Finest Poultry dishes, though she might complain about how raw they usually are, along with the excess of bones to be found.
No. 13325
Don't start that.
No. 13326
In that case... rabbit season!
No. 13327
What I'm saying here is that humans are not entitled to the world just by being humans. They gained the right to do whatever the fuck to the world by becoming top dog. The youkai in Gensokyo are in control because they're at the top of the food chain, vastly outmatching the humans. The humans in Gensokyo aren't entitled to the world just by being humans, the youkai are because they stand at the top. Might makes right.
No. 13328
It should be noted that there is a pro-humanity group in Gensokyo, but they're treated about as seriously as skinheads and Neo Nazis.
No. 13329
>the youkai are because they stand at the top
Which is why the one that actually keeps the youkai in check is a human, hmm? And why there have been many human youkai hunters (descendants of whom are the current human inhabitants of Gensokyo as well as some of the more prominent characters) who made a living out of hunting down the “top dogs.”

No, my good friend. Gensokyo may have been made for youkai, but it is the humans that hold all the cards. A read of Symposium’s Byakuren/Kanako/Miko interview shows that plainly also.
No. 13330
The humans keep the youkai in check only because the youkai's existence depends on humans. The human populace is kept ignorant of their important position in Gensokyo for this reason and thus cannot exercise any control over youkai beyond "please don't wipe us out."
No. 13331
>might makes right
No way. Maximized utility makes right.
No. 13332
>(descendants of whom are the current human inhabitants of Gensokyo as well as some of the more prominent characters)
So, Reimu...and who else?
No. 13333
Marisa for sure. Maybe Youmu. Her human half had to come from somewhere.
No. 13334
Plus Mokou.
No. 13335
Mokou is, like, centuries old, and from a noble family, isn't she? I don't think she counts as a descendent. Ancestor, maybe.
No. 13336
Not according to Akyu, no.
No. 13337
And what are you basing this off of?
No. 13339
It just occurred to me that the boundary between humans and youkai is more arbitrary, fuzzier, and closer than one might expect.

First, some background biology. A life form is a member of a species if it can have fertile offspring with another member of that species. Even infertile offspring are nigh-impossible between life forms which do not share the same genus.
Any member of any species in the genus Homo is considered human. Homo sapiens is the only extant species in this genus at this time, although other species existed in the past.

Half-youkai exist. Therefore, at least some youkai are biologically considered "human". This is supported by some youkai (for example, magicians) having once been human.
No. 13340
If youkai were real, taxonomists would throw up their hands and go FUCK THIS SHIT, NEW CATEGORY or whatever it is they do.
No. 13341
How outsider-like of you to try to fit youkai in scientific concepts that have no value in Gensokyo.
No. 13342
Don't you know that strength is the most honest thing? That's why the oni despise the weak.
No. 13343
Oni despise the weak because they're all dishonest shitheads who keep cheating.
No. 13345
By "cheating", you mean being a combat pragmatist, right?

Which is totally fine by me. We need to use any tactics available to us if we're going to have a chance fighting those inhumanly strong oni.
No. 13346
Like hell you do. Dozens of heroes, living and dead, are a testament to the strength of humans. Maybe you'd be one if you stopped looking for shortcuts and trained honestly for once in your wretched life.
No. 13347
What heroes? Fictional ones?

Besides, there's no more strong heroes in this day and age.

By the way, take a chill pill, bro. No need to insult me to get your point across. That's a bad form in any kinds of debate.
No. 13348
>Hunting down top dogs

Then why are Yuuka and Yukari still alive? Becuase they're that much stronger than the best hunters
No. 13349
Talking about Yuuka, she's the prime example of a dangerous youkai that has to be killed.

If she's as ruthless as the fandom says, that is (like killing anyone who dare disturb her "precious" flowers).
No. 13350
Good luck killing an elder youkai former playable character.
No. 13351
Eh, a group of humans with modern weaponry should be able to kill her. Just burn her sunflower field first.
No. 13352
>Modern weaponry
>affecting a being over a thousand years old.

Good one

and burning her field wouldn't so much weaken her as royally piss her off.
No. 13353
Yuuka's pretty nice as long as you don't break into her house while she's having a nap, then it's genocide 'o clock.
No. 13354
So what if she's really old? We can still kill Eirin with a gun.
No. 13355
That's Yukari.
No. 13356
Are you one of those HFY fucktards from /tg/? Because really, you're annoying as hell. Even more annoying than any of the other groups that have been around this site since 2008.
No. 13357
I'm not one of those HFY guys, but I'm pretty sure enough bullets would incapacitate even a really strong youkai like Yuuka, at least temporarily.
No. 13358
>>scientific concepts that have no value in Gensokyo
>>Yamabiko disappearing en mass because people in Gensokyo learned that bouncing sound waves are what cause echoes
No. 13359
We have only have an idea where they came from, either some corner of /tg/ or spacebattles. But yeah they're very annoying and wasting their time here, someplace "very pro-youkai" in their books as most people here think "A youkai is more than fine too".

what's assuming she doesn't master spark the shooter and last time I checked, Magical wave motion cannon is stronger than Bullets.
No. 13360
Sorry mate, I didn't come from either of those two places. In fact, their HFY-ness often annoys me.
No. 13361
Stuff like this makes me wonder if you could make up cool new youkai by telling the village kids stories.
No. 13362

I've yet to meet one that can outsmart bullet.
No. 13365
This is hilarious. It just so happens that Yuuka is the secret (and most powerful) character in Shuusou Gyoku, of Seihou Project. Seihou weaponry is mundane, but it's powered by Saboten Energy, which is more powerful than nuclear power.
So it is possible to take her down with nonmagical weapons, but at the same time, good luck pulling it off.

Oh, and one of her win quotes is:
>"This is 'chemistry?' Without magic?
>That's foolish."
No. 13366
for bullets to affect her they'd have to be made from something ancient and full of faith. That or the gun itself.

I remember in SCIENCE! during one part, assault rifle bullets weren't too much of an issue for Suika.
No. 13368
>"This is 'chemistry?' Without magic?
>That's foolish."
Yuuka knows the Technocracy. She's on to them.
No. 13369

Is Seihou even relevant to Touhou canon?

I've always assumed that youkai have a far more powerful regenerative ability compared to humans. That's why the only things that can harm them for real are spiritually-infused weapons, which are their main weakness.

However, you still can kill them with normal weapons, but you have to beat their body into a pulp. Cut them into two, cut off their heads, things like that, which is why modern weaponry is perfectly capable to finish them off.
No. 13370
Where did you come from then? And saying those sites' HFY-ness annoying you is like calling the pot black when you're the kettle.
No. 13371
It's more relevant than fan fiction, especially since ZUN was involved in its creation.
No. 13372
I didn't really come from anywhere. This is the first internet forum I've participated in seriously.

As for pot calling the kettle black, well, I only feel all HFY towards Touhou. Dunno why.
No. 13373

Get. Out.
No. 13374
Eh, forum, imageboard, same thing in concept; places you can argue with people.

Don't see why you're so mad about it.
No. 13377
VIVIT defeated Marisa and Reimu back-to-back, so modern weaponry is definitely effective. It just has to be in the shape of a girl.
No. 13378
the tech in Seihou is beyond modern, it's futuristic.
No. 13379
Your point?
No. 13380
futuristic weaponry may be effective but not modern ones.
No. 13393
Here's a brilliant question for the HFY group: Why do you care about this so much? Or rather, why does it matter? You're effectively trying to shove your metaphorical dicks down the throat of anyone who doesn't agree with you about youkai being monsters that must be killed and make them swallow your ideals by force, all over a misinterpreted idea.

On top of that, your arguements are nothing more than the chattering of a bunch of angry birds. Theoretical discussion is fine, but you effectively cover the same ground over and over and over, and I'm quite sure I'm not the only one tired of hearing it.
No. 13394
Because I want more HFY-oriented Touhou stories.

That's all there is to it, really.

What happened with your spellcheck?
No. 13395
I'm glad you agree.
No. 13397
>>Because I want more HFY-oriented Touhou stories.

As much as I would like to just say "fair enough" I have a hard time doing so because you basically want something that goes so against the point of the series, I honestly have to wonder why you're even following it in the first place. I mean, do you look at X-men and think "Man! I wish they'd finally get rid of all those damn mutant freaks! Kill em, lock em up, I don't care, they just gotta go!"? I mean, if that's what you would like to see, nobody can stop you, but do you see how that defeats the whole purpose of the thing? Just like how, without mutants there is no X-men, without youkai there is no Touhou. It would be like a Jurassic Park with no dinosaurs, or a Planet of the Apes without the damned dirty apes.

In a series based entirely upon the premise that gods, monsters, and other mythological beings are real and live side-by-side with humans in a magical pocket dimension where they engage in non-lethal duels specifically created to enable everyone to face one another on relatively even terms, having one side rise up to systematically exterminate the other just doesn't work.
No. 13440
I like how people are assuming there's this massive group of HFYers, when as far as I can tell, the whole thing started from when votes to hold a youkai responsible for something won in Fever Dreams, and then people started accusing people of being in this sort of HFY conspiracy all over.
No. 13448
at least one person tried something in Megasen's story. And it's not so much a big group but one small insanely vocal and persistent group.
No. 13455
>>the point of the series
The point of the series? The point of the series is "Magical girls who can fly beating eachother up" and "Black Humor".

Anything else beyond that is mainly shit added on by the fandom, and is really not helped by the fact that the main canon source (ZUN) is inconsistent as fuck and gives us inconsistent statements regarding matters.
No. 13459
That's because it's supposed to be open to interpretation.
No. 13490
The (an) original point of the series is or was "something for ZUN to put his video game music in".
No. 13500
And to make a game that he'd like. That fact it does so well is just a surprise and extra beer money to him.
No. 13511
Funny considering the post he's responding to is anything but open minded regarding other interpretations.