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1127 No. 1127
>>/th/112393

I am issuing a call to arms.

IRC faggotry is fine when it's kept in IRC, but when it’s spilling over and coming to affect the site like this, we shouldn't stand for it. Kirin wasn't a good writer, but did he put forth his best efforts even though English wasn’t his first language? Did he spin try a story more ambitious than the same old “drinking tea in Gensokyou” or “random NEET wakes up in Gensokyou?”

Of course. Yes, his writing was technically bad. Yes, his execution was shoddy. But as much as he knew how, he actually tried to do something for us. That’s more than pretty much everyone on IRC can hope to claim.

I don’t know what should be done. IRC is usually disorganized, except when something makes it feel angry or threatened. Then it bands together. By virtue of the clout they have and their sheer numbers, it’s enough to overwhelm pretty much any opposition. But frankly, I’m pissed. Most of them don’t vote, only a handful of them write and to top it all off, they’re driving away people who do in fact vote, write and participate on the site. Why do we even keep them around?

I know there's others of you who think the same.

No. 1128
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1128
>>1127
I agree but what would be the point?
I mean, people go to IRC because they want to, they aren't forced to go there. Besides, from what I could gather from his goodbye post, Kirin was sad because the community went to shit, not because they insulted him personally or anything. I don't think it's possible to force people to stop being faggots.
Last, but not least, the OWNER OF THE WEBSITE hangs out in that shithole and seems to like the incredibly retarded bullshit that happens there daily. Any action against those faggots may cause the closure by butthurt of THP.

tl;dr: we can't do anything because there's nothing to be done.
No. 1129
>Why do we even keep them around?
You're right, let's get rid of th-- oh, wait, we can't. They're a completely separate entity from the boards; as you pointed out, most of them don't write, and several of them don't even vote.

Putting that aside, the fact of the matter is that you're still overestimating the effect they really have on the boards. Yes, the fact that they can talk to each other in real time does mean that their actions are, if only by coincidence, somewhat coordinated, but have you ever seen anything really big happen on the boards that wasn't instigated on the boards themselves? All the sagebombs in recent memory were brought up on /blue/ days before they took place, and I can't think of any other happenings on the boards that can be pinned on IRC.

Yes, Kirin apparently left because of something that happened on IRC, and I don't know what the deal is there, but it was almost certainly a stupid, illogical decision. "I don't like IRC anymore; instead of just not going there, I'll quit the whole site"? I don't get it, and his post certainly doesn't offer any explanation.
No. 1131
It's telling that none of the decent writefags use irc anymore except for Taisa and Lion. Go and look around in there on any given day and you'd think you were on gaia or some homoerotic version of /v/.

>>1128
Our choices are to die a slow death or go out in a blaze of glory? I'll pick the second thanks.
No. 1132
>>1129

Pretty much this. Maybe I don't know because I haven't been compelled to wander into IRC, but >>/th/112419 sums it up fairly accurately, if a bit harshly. In my opinion, the problem is more with people feeling the need to post unnecessarily negative or inflammatory comments where none are needed. We should be encouraging our writers to write, and improve, not vilifying them. Perhaps I'm just stating the obvious.
No. 1133
Anti-IRC faggots with no idea what they're talking about strike again.
No. 1135
Considering how Kirin seems to have quit the -site- due to IRC butthurt, maybe the fault lies in him being a little dumb and illogical, rather than some sort of magical IRC conspiracy driving him off.

Besides, isn't it /blue/ that handles the running-writefags-off-the-site stuff, not IRC? Last I checked, /blue/fags were even -complaining- about IRC protecting 'shit-tier writers' (e.g. Krisslanza).

I suppose using IRC as the all-encompassing scapegoat for everything wrong in the world (writefags quitting, global warming, etc.) is the easy route to take, though.
No. 1136
>>1128
>Last, but not least, the OWNER OF THE WEBSITE hangs out in that shithole and seems to like the incredibly retarded bullshit that happens there daily. Any action against those faggots may cause the closure by butthurt of THP.

u mad

It's a shithole I (and the guy who actually -runs- the place) barely pay attention to. Calm the fuck down.
No. 1137
My biggest problem with IRC is the whole meme about what whiny stupid faggots the general anonymous population is. I know when someone says something like 'anon is dum lol' it's not supposed to be a serious thing, but it still creates a problem. I mean, I have to wonder, at what point does someone just decide they don't want to write for a bunch of people they're convinced are utter morons. Maybe they still write because they think it's expected of them, or they have friends in the channel that nag them, but that's not a healthy mindset to be writing in.

It's a bit one sided as well. When someone says something disparaging about anon in IRC no one steps in to defend them. However, when IRC gets brought up on the boards you've got people like >>1133 >>1135 riding into the rescue.
No. 1138
>>1137
>Maybe they still write because they think it's expected of them
o/
No. 1139
>>1137
Mind telling us more about anon being persecuted on IRC. I'd love to hear more about it. Details preferrably, and not the typical conspiracy theories and vague "happens all the time" or "it's common" non-explanations please, they don't help at all in tracking down misunderstandings.
No. 1140
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1140
holy shit, more Drama.
Just what this site needs.
>>1138
Get back to work Nigger, /sdm/ needs an update.
No. 1141
Let's not beat around the bush, here: Recurring negativity and cynicism are to blame; and both voters and writers own a share of the responsibility. If some of you people really are that frustrated with writers leaving and/or stories stopping prematurely (I know I am), and want to DO something about it, a good start would be to cut back on the effort spent complaining and analyzing WHY it happens, and instead apply it to more constructive things. Try reading and voting on stories you previously ignored, just for kicks. You might find that some of them are quite good. I stuck to 2 or 3 stories here for a long while, but I've found that most, even those not usually particular to your tastes, can offer a measure of entertainment. And those stories which are lacking in some aspects always have the potential to improve drastically, given time and effort. Especially if a writer is determined to write, and open to constructive criticism and change.

Hopefully this doesn't come off as offensive, or holier-than-thou, because that's not my intention at all. I genuinely have enjoyed my stay here, and even ( le Gasp ) the community as well.
No. 1142
I find his reason suspect, since in IRC he most certainly engaged in said faggotry.

>>1129
I got the impression he felt IRC had more influence on the site than it actually did. Outside of the writefags' stories and a few trolls mucking about, that really isn't the case. Writefags don't even read much anymore these days.

>>1137
You basically summed up the gap between IRC and the boards. Good News: There's someone in IRC that looks out for Anon. Bad News: It's Wiseman.

But looking at some of the infamous incidents in the site's past, the whole "Anon is stupid" thing isn't complete wrong. Not saying it's completely correct either, Anon's smartened up some since the early days, though their stubbornness towards new types of stories remain.

I wonder if there's been a story that IRC liked and the board hated at all? Since just about all the stories that got sagebombed were not well-liked by IRC. I see that despite anon hating IRC, they agree on surprising number of things.
No. 1143
>>1142
So 'twas a convinient excuse for Kirin? Possible I guess.
No. 1144
There is no IRC conspiracy.

Kirin engaged in as much faggotry as everyone else did. There was no drama. There was no falling out. He quit coming one day and doesn't want to return.

Jesus.
No. 1145
>>1144
I don't think that's the point. From my POV, the reason of this thread is a useless attempt to do something against the IRC faggotry.
Is it real? I've been there, lurking, several times and by the gods, yes, it is.
Can we do anything? Short of killing everyone who posts there, no.
No. 1146
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1146
>>1145

Please, in the interest of everyone's sanity, stop posting hollow accusations that only serve to agitate. Where is the basis for what you're saying? It's natural human behavior to want to rationalize, but I mean christ man.

I'm half tempted to check out IRC just to reassure myself it's not the diabolical conclave of goblins plotting and scheming you make it out to be.
No. 1147
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1147
>>1146
>I'm half tempted to check out IRC
May youkai jesus have mercy on you, for we sure won't
No. 1148
>>1141
You have the right idea, but I think some folks here LIKE being negative and putting things down. That attitude is the major problem, since it discourages new and old writers alike. I read a story I didn't like at first recently and found barring a few stupid votes by anon, it's pretty fun and enjoyable. That story? "Let's gooooo" in /others/

>>1143
Hard to say, he didn't even give details in his post. Even the IRCers are shocked since as far as they could tell, Kirin had no problems with the channel.

>>1144
The drama stems from him saying the community has turned to shit basically. And people doing the typical thing and blaming IRC for it, ignoring the actual exact reason.

>>1145
I see the faggotry infesting the boards to be the bigger problem. The IRC brand of faggotry is mostly ineffectual compared to the board's brand.

>>1146
Go ahead, so you can see for yourself how ineffectual it is.
No. 1151
>>1148

>some folks here LIKE being negative and putting things down

I would like to believe that's not the majority. I get the feeling that a lot of the anger and frustration causing people to shitpost is real and, in their minds, justified. It's just misplaced. People who don't visit IRC may have a hard time understanding what goes on there (myself included, I suppose)and, looking around them and seeing some stories go on hiatus and others simply ending abruptly without a word, think to themselves that there must be some sort of specific reason for this happening. IRC, being a relative unknown, is an easy scapegoat. Frustration is then funneled through the only means they know of on this board: posting text-and-image style, thus contributing to the actual source of the problems. That is, negativity and apathy. My opinions, of course. Maybe I'm wrong and it's just a gaggle of trolls having their way with my wits.


Is there any IRC client in particular I should be getting? I've avoided all forms of it like the plague until now.
No. 1153
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1153
>>1146
The first sentence of my post reads 'That's not the point' For that I meant 'There's no conspiracy' The whole train of thought being the following:
'People who usually decide to chat in THP's IRC channel tend to be, from my experience and in my point of view, faggots. But they do not engage in any kind of conspiracy nor despise the board openly. Therefore, this whole discussion is pointless because the only fault from their side, I.E: (If you agree with my opinion) being subject to alarming amounts of faggotry, does not constitute an aggression on itself nor is a situation propense to any kind of external solution short of physically stopping them from browsing the internet'
I apologize for the confusion.
>>1148
Like I said above, my previous statement is my opinion and is not subject to change unless definitive evidence is provided. I'm happy that you feel like your own subjective analysis of the situation should be shared as well, but I do not agree with it (which isn't meant to be any kind of disrespect)
Again, I'm sorry for the confusion.
No. 1154
>>1137
>Maybe they still write because they think it's expected of them

Let's all take a moment right now to bask in awe how totally god damn true this statement is.
No. 1155
>>1129
Kirin was never the fastest writefag on the site, and in the year I've been on IRC, since it was on #MiG, everything was pretty much the same as it is now. A few new faces here and there, some old ones gone, but it's always been a cesspool of tildes, dicks, and pointless discussions, because, dare I say it, it's a chat room.

I'm sorry to say this, but I really think he's just making up an excuse to leave the site.
No. 1156
You know, even despite all this, I can still get in contact with Kirin, see if there might have been misunderstanding in what he said and what was meant. Yes, he left #thp, but hasn't abandoned IRC entirely.

>>1154

Speak for yourself. I write here because I enjoy writing still, and I like the feeling I get when I get votes. Sure, I get the bare 3-4 at times, and sometimes voting kicks up, or, I daresay, discussion pops up. I like knowing that there are people enjoying the time I take for them, that there are people out there that I make happy just by taking an hour to type out a few paragraphs.

Writing feels good, man.
No. 1157
>>1153
No problem, I never assumed I was absolutely right.
>>1154
Where's that Valentine's day special in /at/ you promised us?
>>1156
That's true since I'm one of them, and it's nice to hear that at least one writefag hasn't lost sight of things.
No. 1158
>>1154
So writefags write because that's what's expected of them?
Isn't that the purpose of the whole website?
No. 1159
>Speak for yourself. I write here because I enjoy writing still, and I like the feeling I get when I get votes. Sure, I get the bare 3-4 at times, and sometimes voting kicks up, or, I daresay, discussion pops up. I like knowing that there are people enjoying the time I take for them, that there are people out there that I make happy just by taking an hour to type out a few paragraphs.

Oh god damn, i love you Mode. I have a tear in my eye right now.
Never change, Never stop writing, Never go away.

>So writefags write because that's what's expected of them
I don't want to read something that someone just typed just because it is expected of them. There is no soul, no life, no breath in it when you just type something because you have to.
If the Writer does not enjoy writing, he should just quit.
If someone like, let's say, Taisa only writes because he has to and does not really enjoy it, i would be the first one to tell him to quit.
It's just sad that it already has come to this, that Writers don't write because of their love for Touhous but because they just have to.

That is not what this site was made for.
No. 1161
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1161
Ah, yes, "IRC"
No. 1162
As long as even one person votes (and as long as I don't fuck up so badly that blue decides to organize), I'll keep writing.

I don't care if it takes all month. I'll lick this update. I swear.
No. 1163
>>1127
>>1128
>>1129
>>1145

You say we're helpless? That there's nothing we can do in the face of the IRC dickriders?

Gentlemen, I have a modest proposal in two parts.

The first is requesting the removal of the IRC tab on the front page. Everyone knows it's full of faggots who embarrass the site and don't use it anyway, so there's no reason for it to be there. If you need to get in touch with the site administrators and mods, there's other ways.

The second is a bigger step. To put it simply, we boycott. We ask other anonymous to stop going there because it's full of faggots. We ask the writers who are worth something and who claim to care about their readers to stop going there. If they blow us off, we stop voting in their stories. Hit them where they feel it.

It's a very simple plan that doesn't break any of the rules of the site. Its objective isn't the death of IRC, but the removal of the faggotry. Cleansing it of the detritus that doesn't use the site.

I know not everyone's going to agree and get involved. I know some selfish fags who just want to get their fix won't care. But don't write it off. For something like this, every person who gets involved makes a difference. And you should get involved.

Because if nothing changes, this site's dead.
No. 1164
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1164
>Implying IRC is the problem.

No, people getting bored and moving on is. I'm surprised I still visit the site, myself.

Prove me wrong.
No. 1165
>>1163
haha oh wow
No. 1166
See, this is thread is a perfect example of why there's such a deep seated hostility to IRC. Notice how they’re once again trying to avoid accepting that they’re culpable in any wrongdoing by playing the “durr, we’re harmless and just like to talk about dicks XDD” card like always. Except in this case, it doesn’t really fit because Kirin clearly said that they were the main reason for his leaving the site; they’re not harmless. So what do they do? They shift the blame away from themselves onto Kirin. It’s not because IRC is full of faggots who look down on people who still use the site, it’s obviously because Kirin’s “dumb and illogical.” He’s clearly “making excuses” and using IRC as a “scapegoat,” never mind that he’s used IRC longer than half of the people there and that he made a real point when he said that they talk about everything except writing or stories. Why don’t you fags just step back and admit you're partially to blame?
No. 1167
>>1166
Question: Where exactly is the rule that states people are forced to talk about stories or writing in IRC?
No. 1168
>>1167
Just that you're associating the discussion of stories and writing with coercion shows what's wrong with IRC.
No. 1169
>>1167
The IRC exists for the benefit of the site and people who use the site. That's why it has a link on the front page. If most of the IRC crowd doesn't read or vote, there's no reason for it to be there.
No. 1171
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1171
>>1157
>Where's that Valentine's day special in /at/ you promised us?

I gave you the Momizi story a day or two early instead because all the ideas I got weren't Orin related. I'll give a rain check on it.

>>1156

You know what happens to most people who do that? They update once a week. Then once a month. Then it becomes exceedingly rare, until they just disappear altogether. I don't think I have enough fingers to count how many times this has happened. (Hell, I did it too shortly around my abandonment of my first story)

I know how you feel, I enjoy writing too. When I do get the rare and occasional burst of creativity, I'm cursing the lack of votes because I want to write but there aren't enough votes to really do so. But at times, sometimes I write simply because I feel I've taken too long, making promises I'm not keeping, ultimately shafting my readers. I can't promise my readers a great story but I at least try to promise them I won't abandon them like plenty of other writers here have.

I don't know what possibly could've happened to the writers that eventually stopped writing altogether and left, but a large part of me believes they just stop giving a damn. :\

>>1164

This is true. This is so very true. There is no problem with the actual community beyond general faggotry that every other damn community suffers from. The problem is that the fad is over. People got tired of the same thing. The magic has lost it's touch. No one here can honestly say the population hasn't dwindled massively. This isn't because the community is shit, because of the server/DNS problems or the staff or anything of that sort.

People just stopped caring.

It was fun at first, then it got tiring, people moved on to better things. (To them anyways) There are still people here who still consider this fun, whether you write, you vote, or are just a part of the discussion; you are one of them. You are a part of this site still that believes it has potential. Everyone else just simply got bored of it and forgot it existed.

Enough of this BLAME IRC controversy, enough of this complaining about the server bullshit, those are not the biggest problems. People just got bored. That's all there is to it.

Of course, this might not speak for absolutely everyone but I really think that's the major cause of the population drop.

Well, now that I've gotten all that off my chest. I'm going to write. Because I god damn well feel like it.

I almost feel sorry for anyone writing a story in this board.
No. 1172
>>1163

ahaha

that's funny.

you're funny.
No. 1173
And nothing of value was lost.
No. 1174
File 126645659439.jpg - (55.01KB , 456x611 , 93078e6ac94d694d2767642e399ff848.jpg ) [iqdb]
1174
Uh, people? Please calm down.
I did not quit THP because of IRC. Well, not entirely. It's not the main cause that I left but it did take part.

Since I sounded like I pin all the blame to IRC, I'll rephrase myself.

I quit the site because of my inability to write.
You know when you hold your pen in front of the blank paper, unable to write anything down? You know when you try to write something on it for like half a page and think, "okay what the fuck did I just wrote? That's a piece of shit." and scrap it? Rinse and repeat.

IRC does contribute to my sullen mood, but that's NOT THE MAIN CAUSE. That's how they are and I'm just too soft that I can't take normal internet behavior. Don't blame them. They are just being themselves.

Along with this problem I also have work, family, my relationship problems, and another problem generic Salaryman has. I'm about to start studying for my Master degree and I simply don't have free time like back when I was a new recruit. TL;DR: Life sucks. don't have free time.

In all seriousness. Please don't blame IRC for this. If you look for someone to vent your anger on, I'm the cause of all this. You should rage at me quitting like a sissy instead.
No. 1176
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1176
>>1171
I almost feel sorry for anyone writing a story in this board.
I still loved your parody of the story! I'm sorry.

>>1174
It's better to get rid of miscommunication than leave it be, in my opinion.

I don't find any gain in insulting you in any way; the way life is, it doesn't give any living being a break.

--

I do feel like I do have a lot more to say, but I don't have much time on the laptop.

I do find it strange how people are quick to say "DRAMA DRAMA" when there is an actual issue at hand inside; it's just in a fog. Maybe I'm being pretentious like everyone says I am.
No. 1177
I rarely ever seriouspost. I hope this is the last time.

I've been around the site for a long time. I've written a few shorts. I've voted in a bunch of stories. I read most of them. I've always been anonymous.

I've also been to IRC for quite some time. Does faggotry occur? Yes. Quite often. Is it my cup of tea? Certainly not. But I just let it fly by. I mostly just spend my time there talking about vidya gaems. Taisa & Lion are pretty chill. (Although the former has awful taste in Castlevania music, and the latter likes shoddy RPGs.) Kapow's there from time to time (not very often when I'm around) and he's pretty chill too. Scorn shows up drunk every now and then and it's all good times. The rest are not all that bad, but I don't talk to them as much.

It's just a plain chatroom. HY will pop in every now and then, 70% of the time will read a few lines, go "I am disappoint" and vanish into the void once more. 30% of the time, he'll stick around and shoot the shit. It's not faggotry 100% of the time.

Sometimes some people ask for critique for their stories, and if I happen to read them I don't mind giving my two cents on it. That's about all that gets done in regards to the site. Kirin was chill when he was around too, I really don't know what got him all upset, he seemed alright to me, and he was part of the "faggotry" just as much. Maybe something happened. I don't know.

It's really just a chatroom to me. I still see the site just as it used to be. Sure, activity's taken a hit, but there's still some people that can weave an interesting tale and more importantly, entertain. IRC has never been a hindrance or a boost to that.

Chill.
No. 1178
Hahaha. Oh wow.
Seriously saying that IRC is the problem? Yes, it causes a number of problems. Nobody wants to discuss anything there unless it's 3AM EST. It's also full of tremendous faggots that like to roleplay raping a shabby writer (Clue: "girl") and and talking about how much they love the male genitalia. IRC is, honestly, a big problem.

Driving Kirin off... What? He participated in the IRC faggotry as well, and has proven to not be the most sensible of people here. He can be a downright dick, like most of us can, and has pretended to be a girl when he first came to the site. No, Kirin was one of the IRC faggots and merely wanted to use IRC as an excuse to not provide his real reason for leaving.

Seriously, I agree with you. IRC is utter shit and (most) everyone there can go suck a dick, and they probably will in any case. It isn't what made Kirin leave, though. It's just a shitpool that's mostly used for a scapegoat when it should be attacked for entirely different reasons.

>>1163

You're cute. If you really believe what you said, you're cute.
No. 1179
>>1176
I still loved your parody of the story! I'm sorry.

<3~
No. 1180
File 126645926735.png - (318.03KB , 1278x511 , bratz.png ) [iqdb]
1180
>>1155
>>1177
>>1178
These posts combined are the best description of IRC.

Hell, I technically run the chatroom and even I think too much IRC isn't good for most people. If the inane chatter is getting to you, stop staring at the chat window and do something else, try reading some new stories or something.
No. 1181
>>1177
Signed. My limited experiences with IRC are pretty much exactly the same as what you describe.

>>1163
8/10. You really had me going for a while, but the overdramatic last line gave you away. Nobody could seriously believe that IRC could kill the site.
No. 1182
>>1171

>I gave you the Momizi story a day or two early instead because all the ideas I got weren't Orin related. I'll give a rain check on it.

Okay but that implies Orin H, which is always fine in my book.

>I don't know what possibly could've happened to the writers that eventually stopped writing altogether and left, but a large part of me believes they just stop giving a damn. :\

Hard to say but it never helps that most writefags are miserable little pile of issues and neuroses.

>The problem is that the fad is over. People got tired of the same thing. The magic has lost it's touch.

Yet few people try to do something new, and when they do, Anon complains. People keep endure and then Anon gets used to that. This is the basic flow of the site's history.

>People just stopped caring.
This is perhaps the shortest simplest reason why the site is the way it is now with its Faggotry. Some folks do care still, but others seem to prefer doing things out of other reasons: Obligation, getting a route of character finished before the writefag quits. It's a deadening of the spirit it seems.

>>1174
So same story as HY's: Life. At least you're honest about quitting as opposed to 'indefinite hiatus' Well we'll welcome you back when you get things sorted out.

>>1176
yeah but anon prefers drama than doing a damn thing about it.
No. 1183
>Yet few people try to do something new, and when they do, Anon complains.

I keep hearing this, yet I can't think of a single instance of it actually happening. Things like The Game and Palingenesia are pretty far off the beaten path, and people love them.

Maybe I'm just not noticing the rage. Could you point out a few examples of people lashing out at something because it was new?
No. 1184
>>1183
Ancient Gensokyo. Nowadays also known as 'that story where the monk fucked Yuyuko'.
No. 1185
I use IRC, I vote in several stories, and I can safely say I don't participate in the cockmongling that the brits and aussies partake in. Let's face it though. It's an IRC channel belonging to people who for the most part couldn't stand other communities or were ostracized from them being being annoying as hell. Shouldn't be expecting that much.
No. 1186
>>1184
Except the main instigator of that little shitstorm came to terms with the situation, as described in >>/gensokyo/3588, and seems to still read the story. Are there any other examples you could give?
No. 1187
>>1184
It's been some time since I read Ancient Gensokyo, but as I recall people were uncomfortable because the protaginst(who was kinda-sorta in a relationship) had a one night stand with another women(who was also in a kinda-sorta realationship).

I'm not convinced that people hate new things just because they're uncomfortable with what they perceived to be infidelity. At least, not from just that one incident.

If this problem is as widespread as you claim then I'm sure there are other examples. Could you give them?
No. 1188
>>1183
Besides whatever the fuck is going on in GH, it seems like it's mostly 2-3 anons whining about getting "free" sex. Ancient Gensokyo and Fairy Maid are a couple recent examples.

RaAN, Shadow Over Gensokyo, Woden's yukkuri story, lighthouse, I Youkai, Memoirs of a Vampire, The Game - all of these took things in a new direction and all of them have been popular. I can only assume the people saying anon hates new things are pessimistic to the point of tunnel vision and/or are actually saying anon didn't like their new thing.
No. 1189
Please, read the comments in the thread before posting more bitter rage. There are more productive things to focus your attention on here at THP.

>>1166
>>1163

I feel like these posts aren't saying anything beyond needlessly stirring up trouble. They embody the contagious attitude and outlook I believe voters and writers alike are tired of seeing around here. Maybe I shouldn't speak for others here, but that's certainly the way I see it.

To those posting rage and just skimming over the well-meaning comments and posting reactionary and uninformed arguments, (that can do nothing but end in deadlock, as the issue in question is a contrived one, not the central issue at all, and can never be realistically resolved) read >>1151,>>1156,>>1177, and then >>1174. The first two are points of consideration, the third a fairly reasonable and level-headed response to the question of "Is there IRC faggotry and to what degree if at all does it affect the site?". The fourth explains, contrary to the entire 'purpose' of this thread, that it wasn't even main IRC that cause Kirin to leave, a poignant piece of irony that shouldn't be overlooked.


The angry, irrational, and alarmist posting that's occurring is partially a result of people needing a place to put the blame regarding departure of writers and hiatus. The problem with this poorly channeled anger, however, is that it perpetuates and contributes to the environment and attitude that causes some writers to throw in the towel. There are innumerable reasons why a writer could decide to stop writing, and sometimes we just have to accept that they moved on to other things, sometimes we have to accept that. It does not mean there is no life left in the site, nor that the end is nigh, simply that change is inevitable. We've lost writers over the years, but we've also gained some that show promise and sophistication that cannot be denied. Writers choosing to move on for their own reasons is unavoidable. Writers choosing to ditch the site and their stories in order to preserve their sanity is not. The environment is entirely self-created and sustained. Maybe I'm just stating the obvious, now.

I make this post in the hopes that the people initiating the bulk of the arguments do not just simply want to troll, but are alarmed and unhappy with the recent slowdown of the site they love. Add to that the rather sudden departure of a fairly well-known writer, it's understandable that some might be confused, or even upset. That does not justify contributing to the larger problem as a whole, however.

Seems like half of this post is just rehashing what others and myself have already said, and I'm probably putting entirely too much effort into an internet argument, but I find myself giving a shit, for some inexplicable reason.
No. 1191
File 126646481789.jpg - (646.14KB , 950x698 , misfortune.jpg ) [iqdb]
1191
>>1189
It's not really inexplicable if you actually care, you know.

However, I've heard that caring isn't the cool thing to do, especially if it affects the environment and indirectly the quality of the stories we read occasionally.

Anonymous is unfortunately an amorphous body of people whereas we cannot determine their true purpose and thus we can label as anything we like. Sometimes, though, we could learn a lot from the unknown.
No. 1192
>>1183

It was worse earlier (Such as when HY was writing his other stories (IDP, IPF mainly) in addition to Fairy Maid. I think things have progressed; good luck telling HY that. And I think in anon's defense, he didn't make it clear about things being different. (Classic non-communicative author syndrome)

Perhaps some folks complain because things feel the same with 'routes', character vs character choices. Many stories written today aren't that closely bound with VN roots. GH is a glaring exception, for it worships those tropes.

Perhaps folks should learn how to read other sections than /th/ and to read past completed stories, some Hiatus ones too if they feel they can handle the fact it's not ever going to end anytime soon if at all. Most of those innovative stories aren't on /th/ after all.

>>1185
Same here, and I hate talking about dicks; rather talk about breasts.
>It's an IRC channel belonging to people who for the most part couldn't stand other communities or were ostracized from them being being annoying as hell. Shouldn't be expecting that much.
Yet they think they're better than said communities. I don't have much of a problem in other places, IRC is just an interesting place for one reason or another.

>>1187
The whole thing reeked of VNish thinking, and half the mess was IRC-based. The author was nice enough to clear things up nicely for them.

>>1188
Thank you very much for reminding me about them; I feel more hopeful about things. A case where I'm gladly proven wrong.

Far as GH goes? It's basically a war between fans ala HLA2 but with 200% more hatred.

>>1189
>>1191
I care too about this site, but we're in the minority compared to the people preferring to tear into other people and complainers.
No. 1193
File 126646904278.jpg - (21.77KB , 340x439 , 1266468454983.jpg ) [iqdb]
1193
And that's that.
No. 1195
lol @ this thread: Don't know what this commotion's all about; I haven't spent more than a few minutes in IRC, but they came off as polite and helpful chaps.

Is magical girl fanfiction really that serious business, people? Listen to >>1177 and relax - don't lose sight of that you're here to have fun and enjoy yourselves in all the RAGE and OBLIGATION. (This will no doubt sound ironic in light of what I have to say below.)

>>1184
...Wiseman. I don't know anything about what kind of reputation my story enjoys, nor do I particularly care – being e-famous is not my cup of tea. But if it does in fact have that sort of stigma attached to it, I'm pretty sure it's because you insist on describing it in that way. Out of the several things you might mention about it – the premise, the dialogue, the characterization, the thematic of duality and paradox, the way in which the various situations explore problems of ethics and questions of normative belief, for example (…please don’t repeat this verbatim somewhere else); you latched onto that?

Tell me you’re kidding.

I don’t know if this is supposed to be some subtle attempt at mocking me by displaying my failures before my face or if it’s just some hamfisted mistake stemming from good intentions; either way, I find myself less than enthused.
No. 1196
>>1163

Is that you YAF?
No. 1197
File 126647176115.jpg - (144.25KB , 500x494 , ec92f6c348d49dff0cd5a941c20f0771.jpg ) [iqdb]
1197
>>If the Writer does not enjoy writing, he should just quit.

Sorry, but I must disagree with this sentiment.
Recommending someone simply quit doing something they once liked just because they no longer seem to enjoy it is like recommending amputation just because some part of your body is infected.

It's certainly an option, and depending on the circumstances might even be the best option for that particular case, but it's hardly appropriate for every single situation. Especially if there are far less extreme solutions available.

And I feel quitting something you enjoy really is akin to amputating a limb. If you enjoy it, and I mean really and truly enjoy it, it should be like a part of you. I'm not saying you should feel like you're living and breathing it at all time, least of all in regards to writing internet fanfiction about girls in frilly dresses and silly hats, but you should still feel at least some sense of attachment to what you're doing.

So then, if it comes to be that there’s something wrong with this part of you, why would you not try to at least figure out the cause behind the problem and attempt to fix it, first? If there is any chance at all it can be saved, why not take it?

Dropping things is fine if your problems are due to more external factors, like work, school, or family life affecting you. Those things are actually important, and should take precedence over entertaining anonymous strangers on the internet. But if the problems are due to more internal factors, such as issues with the readers or the story itself? What, if anything, is simply dropping things going to actually solve? Sure, you might be rid of that specific problem, but without addressing the underlying cause, you could just as easily wind up experience the same thing elsewhere.

Say, for example, you have a story that you’re finding yourself less and less endeared to on account of the seemingly near-constant bickering between certain segments of the readership. Hard to imagine, I know, but bear with me, here. At the center of this “debate” is the lack of consensus regarding which direction the readers want to go. Given that the whole point of having a “Choose Your Own Adventure” style story is for the readers to decide on the direction the story goes, this is clearly a problem. But, the thing is that’s not the real problem, merely a side-effect of it.

The real problem in this case is not that the readers are constantly bickering and arguing over a particular point, but the mindset those readers have that are leading them to have the argument in the first place.
As tempting as it would be to just leave things as they are and hope for better luck on your next project, by allowing that mindset to persist, it has a good chance of festering and bubbling up elsewhere. If you want to truly stop the problem, you need to change the mindset that these readers are holding onto. Of course, you can’t make them do so directly, but as the one whose words they’re following and getting so worked up over, can you truly say there is absolutely nothing at all you can do to guide them?

The writer, I believe, shares a similar problem. Namely, they approach their work with the wrong sort of attitude. True, the readers and voters are a driving force behind the stories here, but as the ones tasked with actually putting that story into words, the story itself starts and stops with the writer. Both sides have their roles to play, and under ideal conditions the end result of their collaboration should be a story that was as enjoyable to write as it was to read. If the story was a success in that regard, it should have due to the efforts of both sides. On the other hand, if the story is failing at that goal, it is also likely due to both sides. One side might be more at fault than the other, but neither one is completely free of fault in this.

Going back to our purely hypothetical example, let’s consider our purely hypothetical writer’s waning interest and enjoyment of their own story. While the behavior of their readers might be part of the reason why they feel the way they do, to treat that as the only cause is to completely disregard that writer’s own role in this situation. If they once enjoyed writing their story, but now they do not, then something must have changed in that time. The question is, is it the thing itself that has changed, or merely the writer’s own attitude?

To briefly step away from one hypothetical example to another, consider how how your tastes in food may have changed over time. Things you once found delicious long ago might not appeal as much now, while things you may have once found disgusting you now enjoy. Has the food itself changed in any way? Or has your own taste and attitudes towards it been what has changed?

In regards to how a writer feels about their own work, I feel a similar question must be asked. Has the nature of the work itself truly changed to something they no longer enjoy? Or has the writer’s own attidue merely shifted in such a way that they no longer enjoy it as much? Either way, could things not be fixed by changing something, rather than merely dropping the thing altogether?

If a story has changed in such a way the writer is not enjoying it, can they not work to shift it back into a direction they find more desirable to them? If it is their own attitude that has changed, then can they not attempt to shift that in some way, and find something in the work as it is that they can still enjoy?

“But what about the readers/voters?” you might ask (or not). “What if what the writer wants to do to change the story isn’t what the readers/voters want?” To that I say; to hell with what they want.

No, really. I’m serious. In that particular case, fuck ‘em.
For the greater good of the story as a whole, sometimes the writer must take the reins and force things back on track, regardless of the wishes of the audience.
Remember, both sides have their roles to play in this crazy little dance. Where the role of the reader is to vote and help point this story into a direction they would like to see, it is the role of the writer to act on those votes and actually take the story in that direction. That does not, however, mean that all the writer does is in service to the reader. Far from it. They must also be mindful of their own wants for the story they’re telling, and their work should strive to serve those needs as well.

More important than even that, though, is something that should be cared for and served first and foremost, before even the will of the readers, and that is the story itself. If it is for the good of the story as a whole, the writer must be prepared to disregard what they may personally want. In that same vein, if it serves to further the good of the story as a whole, the writer must be prepared to disregard what the readers might want.

Something I think both sides tend to forget is that the purpose of a story is to take you places. That does not, however, mean that they’ll always be places you want to go.

Which brings me back to my original point. Even if a writer finds they do not enjoy what they are writing, there are solutions beyond “drop that shit like a load of bricks”. There are circumstances where one might have no choice but to quit, but if there are alternatives to that, ones that might even help to either reclaim that enjoyment they once had for their work, or even find whole new ways to enjoy their writing, wouldn’t it be best to seek them out first?

If you were to drop a story you were writing every time you found your enjoyment for that story waning, are you not reducing your work to something completely disposable? Something you have no qualms about dropping on what amounts to a mere whim, without so much as an afterthought? And if that’s so, what is to stop your prospective readers from viewing your work in the same way? If you’re not invested enough in your work to care about it continuing, why should anyone else be?

There’s probably something I’ve forgotten, more I could say, and for all I know I could be horribly wrong on so many things it’s not even funny, but I think these ramblings of mine are running long enough as it is. Regardless, as someone who hates seeing a creative mind stop creating as much as I hate to see the creation itself end, that’s how I feel about the matter.
No. 1198
>>1196
YAF's still around?
No. 1199
>>1197

Woah, an essay.

While a lot of your points are valid, a lot of writers losing motivation is actually just writer's block, which isn't something you can just man up and keep going from.
No. 1200
>>1195
>(…please don’t repeat this verbatim somewhere else)
You know you're asking the impossible here, right? Wiseman's only way of making up for his learning disability is blindly aping others.

>>1199
>writer's block, which isn't something you can just man up and keep going from.
On the contrary, the only way to recover from so-called "writer's block" is get it together and write something; this myth that writers just wait around for inspiration to strike is part and parcel of the widespread stupid belief that the creative arts are somehow set apart from all other activites as mystical and unlearnable. Really, even calling it "writer's block", as though it's somehow different from a slump in any other occupation, elevates it to a status it doesn't deserve.
No. 1201
>>1197

I like to say I agree wholehearted on the matter of the Writefag/anon relationship being two way. One is nothing without the other.

>>1195
Yeah this is Wiseman here, and >>1184 isn't me. That's most likely some IRC faggot. I describe your story as "Next-gen CYOA". I do not know what I have done to earn such spite from one such as yourself, but I apologize for whatever I did. But I'd never insult you or your work like that guy has.

>I haven't spent more than a few minutes in IRC, but they came off as polite and helpful chaps.

If you come in asking for help/discussion you'd get it for a time before it reverts back to its usual state. Despite a few faggots, most of the chat seems to hold you in high regard.

And I have indeed posted a few times in the topic.

>>1199
But terminal writer's block? I didn't writer's block could cause people to vanish from the face of THP.
No. 1202
>>1200
>On the contrary, the only way to recover from so-called "writer's block" is get it together and write something; this myth that writers just wait around for inspiration to strike is part and parcel of the widespread stupid belief that the creative arts are somehow set apart from all other activites as mystical and unlearnable. Really, even calling it "writer's block", as though it's somehow different from a slump in any other occupation, elevates it to a status it doesn't deserve.

One of the only parts of this thread worth reading.
No. 1203
I don't necessarily suffer from "writer's block", just a severe case of ADHD.

Today was no exception.
No. 1204
>>1202
Does this mean what I hope it means?
No. 1205
File 126648267156.jpg - (16.31KB , 413x409 , 1257460099562.jpg ) [iqdb]
1205
>>1204

You wish.
No. 1206
Jesus fuck, how did this get 60 posts in the time I went to bed and woke up? I'm scared to read this because it's probably a bunch samefag posts which state how the Illuminati IRC kabal is secretly plotting world domination or something.
No. 1208
>>1195
For the record, that was not my personal viewpoint in regards to your story - just my impression of what several former readers seem to think of it these days. I suppose I should've clarified that.

>Wiseman
Is this starting to become THP's in-joke of an insult towards anyone, now?
No. 1209
>>1203
I don't think you're the only writefag with this, but having found this out, you're managing it in a great manner.

>>1204
I doubt he changed his mind, but he means this topic as some redeeming value, and it does.

>>1206
Nope, there is actually productive discussion in /blue/ for once. >>1197 a notable example of productive speaking.
No. 1210
File 126650868038.jpg - (28.51KB , 542x428 , 1260112956355.jpg ) [iqdb]
1210
>baseless IRC hate

Oh look, it's this thread again.
No. 1212
>>1201
Just for the record, Wiseman, I don't feel any great spite for you. Your posts, the ones in the past particularly, were often less than satisfactory, but it's readily apparent to me that you have tried to improve. The fact that I have had less success in identifying you recently is evidence of that.

You still have problems with correctly using compound modifiers, awkwardly using interjections, employing strange formatting and unnecesary line breaks and proofreading your posts for paragraphing flow, but all of these issues have seen some diminution from their previously painful apparence.

Keep at it - have as your goal that no one should be able to identify your posts as originating in you unless you either want people to know it or you say it yourself.

>>1208
It's fine, I'm not insulted. Rather, I'd like to thank you; in my limited estimation prior to your (and Wiseman's) informing me of such, I incorrectly supposed that only Wiseman used that sort of descriptor.

>>1197
This post resounds with the music of truth. If I could, I would shake the hand of him who took the time to articulate as judiciously and lucidly his position. However, there's a question that I have for him (or anyone else up to it, really). Regarding:

>For the greater good of the story as a whole, sometimes the writer must take the reins and force things back on track, regardless of the wishes of the audience.

>Remember, both sides have their roles to play in this crazy little dance. Where the role of the reader is to vote and help point this story into a direction they would like to see, it is the role of the writer to act on those votes and actually take the story in that direction. That does not, however, mean that all the writer does is in service to the reader. Far from it. They must also be mindful of their own wants for the story they’re telling, and their work should strive to serve those needs as well.

>More important than even that, though, is something that should be cared for and served first and foremost, before even the will of the readers, and that is the story itself. If it is for the good of the story as a whole, the writer must be prepared to disregard what they may personally want. In that same vein, if it serves to further the good of the story as a whole, the writer must be prepared to disregard what the readers might want.

How exactly do you feel one should handle a situation in which a decision made 'for the good of the story' in the longer term results in your readers deserting you in the short?
No. 1213
>>1197

Belated recognition of this point:
>The writer, I believe, shares a similar problem. Namely, they approach their work with the wrong sort of attitude. True, the readers and voters are a driving force behind the stories here, but as the ones tasked with actually putting that story into words, the story itself starts and stops with the writer. Both sides have their roles to play, and under ideal conditions the end result of their collaboration should be a story that was as enjoyable to write as it was to read. If the story was a success in that regard, it should have due to the efforts of both sides. On the other hand, if the story is failing at that goal, it is also likely due to both sides. One side might be more at fault than the other, but neither one is completely free of fault in this.

Most of the disasters on this site are often a mix of both Anon and the writer's bungling. Not just one or other as people are oft to saying.
No. 1214
>>1213
Hell, I freely admit that I screwed up royally with MiG. The snow end was borne of a variety of factors, including, but not limited to, wanting to end the story quickly w/o spoiling it so that I could do another run through, letting the story get as far away from me as it did. (I had originally planned on ending it at the Moriya shrine, but let anon vote to go away from it), Tengu Ninja, an extended ass pull in the form of everything after the Moriya shrine, and the fact that MiG started off as a light hearted story then ZOMG PLOT. So it was, quite honostly, bad planning on my part, and letting anon run away with too much of the story.

Oh.
And tengu ninja too.

Fuck those bastards. Really. Who thought they were a good idea.

</self depreciation>
No. 1215
File 126653185472.jpg - (38.59KB , 400x300 , 1138375661_turesabuse.jpg ) [iqdb]
1215
>>1214
Look at the bright side: you've created two of the very few THP memes.
No. 1217
For those who don't wish to dig through rageposts, here are a few of the good, sensible, points being made in spite of this thread's original purpose:

>>1141
>>1151
>>1156
>>1159
>>1162
>>1171
Note should be taken of >>1174
>>1177
>>1189
>>1197


I'm tempted to make a site discussion thread over in /words/ to to get some of the rage off the imageboards, but not sure if that would just be redundant and fuel for the fire. It would be

While there are a lot of irrational and downright paranoid posts in this thread, there are also a good many kernels worth keeping in mind when considering the fickle relationship between anonymous. It was good to hear the perspectives of a number of writers here, and I imagine it was somewhat helpful for the writers to hear from some of their readers, especially those who took the time to write well thought-out and constructive comments. In fact, I would daresay that more good came of this thread than ill in the end, if some of the few individuals actually perpetuating the bulk of these arguments came away with more than a sense of helplessness and discontent.

Would be nice to maybe keep some of the shitstorming about things other than which little girl to pick out of Taisa's threads, where it inevitably winds up.

Sage because I really don't think this thread should be sticking around, despite some of the excellent points made here.
No. 1218
>>1141
are you me?
No. 1219
>>1217

You can't really help it, /blue/ just sort of became the site's new rage outlet. Hence why I almost felt sorry for the stories here.
No. 1220
>>1219
That is the prime reason why I started The Shortest Story Ever Told here. Amidst, I am a bit terrible for that, but I guess I should be.

Not like /blue/ being a rage outlet is bad really, it allows us to isolate problems and deal it out without messing up stories.
No. 1221
>>1220

Yeah I don't particularly mind either, since we have boards for anything not a sheer flamethrower of rage.
No. 1222
You know, no matter how much we blame IRC faggotry and anon's stupidity, the fact reamins that only a lack of will on the author's part can truly kill a story.

If the writefag has the will to perservere, to improve in response to criticism and to put his heart into his story, it will be finished sooner or later and it will be good.
No. 1223
>>1217
I do agree, this topic in the end done this site a considerable favor. But >>1188 lists some new innovative stories that have been received well.

>>1219
>>1220

Some people tried productive stories here, but it is more known for various complaints by the most disgruntled of Anon. It's hard to say exactly say why /blue/ ended up this way. It's better that all that shit be contained here than infecting other stories.
No. 1228
>>1223

>Some people tried productive stories here, but it is more known for various complaints by the most disgruntled of Anon. It's hard to say exactly say why /blue/ ended up this way. It's better that all that shit be contained here than infecting other stories.

>It's better that all that shit be contained here than infecting other stories.

>/blue/

>b

>/b/
No. 1231
File 12665614024.jpg - (18.16KB , 200x200 , nueface.jpg ) [iqdb]
1231
/blue/ is /nue/ from the future
No. 1826
>>1213
But sometimes, it can be just the writer's fault.
No. 1827
>>1826

A little late there, buddy.
No. 1832
>>1826
...you're an idiot.
No. 1833
Kirin is back.
This thread is useless.
No. 1834
>>1833
It was always useless.
No. 1841
>>1834

battler.jpg
No. 9285
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